What would you do as a parent here? Both sides of the coin (1 Viewer)

[SWC]

dude that math issue is a math problem and hell no way am i trying that i do not even own graph paper take that to the bank bromigo

 

[gianmarco]

Gianmarco,

Can we surmise that you are upset that the top finisher from your son's team is now going it alone... thus making it almost impossible for your son to move on to Nationals??

Not upset at all.  Especially since my son is already lucky to be there based on the collective merits of others. 

But when this situation came up and with the ensuing discussion, I was glad my son recognized that if he were in the other position, he would choose to benefit the others knowing he would bring them down by not volunteering.  I was also glad that, as a group, they didn't force the other kid to not compete on the team.  It is a little disappointing that the lowest scoring kid didn't come to that decision, but I also understand it given the ages of these kids. 

 

[Judge Smails]

Top 4 go as the team.  5th competes as an Individual.  Easy.

 

[sbonomo]

Heh, yes.

My son is neither the top student nor the outlier.  When we had the discussion where I asked what he thought and what should happen, he said that if he were the outlier he would volunteer to compete alone so that the other 4 had a better chance to make it.  I was proud.  And, if he were, as a parent, I would step in and recommend that to him because I think it's the right thing to do.  But, as the "other" parent, I wanted him to make his own decision.

The top student opted to compete alone.  His chances to move on don't change so it doesn't matter for him.  But, for the team, they now have virtually no chance to move on.  I'm a little disappointed that the other student didn't "do the right thing", but I also understand that it's not easy to do that as a twelve year old so it is what it is.

How did they not do the right thing?  If the kid is the best why does he need the team?  I am ready your OP correctly he qualified alone anyway right? 

ETA:  does the top kid (say he is top 10 again) move on regardless of how the team does?

 

[gianmarco]

How did they not do the right thing?  If the kid is the best why does he need the team?  I am ready your OP correctly he qualified alone anyway right? 

ETA:  does the top kid (say he is top 10 again) move on regardless of how the team does?

Yes, he moves on anyway. I wasn't referring to him. I was referring to the lowest scoring kid not stepping up and keeping the top scoring kid on the team.

 

[sbonomo]

Yes, he moves on anyway. I wasn't referring to him. I was referring to the lowest scoring kid not stepping up and keeping the top scoring kid on the team.

okay, i get it.  This is the teachers fault.  Roll the dice and see how it goes.  They should have actually put and A & B team together to begin with.  If the B team makes it then it is gravy.  

 

[Reg Lllama of Brixton]

I say set up some sort of Lord of the Flies deal.

 

[Tom Skerritt]

Maybe the four non-top-10 members need to do better. IMO, there is no "best" decision. 

Is the top 10 kid clearly better than the other 4? Or did he just happen to have a good day?

 

[Shoot_Me_Now]

I may have not really conveyed as well as I should have that this is primarily an individual competition.  The "team" portion is an adjunct that may help an additional kid or two make it to the next level.  The only way there's a "team" is if there are 4 kids from the same school.  If there are fewer kids, they still do the team portion (even if only one kid), but the score will never be high enough to advance because of the addition of all the individual performances into the "team score". 

For the regional, the top 10 individuals move on and the top team moves on.  The top team had all 4 individuals place in the top 10 so they were all moving on anyway.  The only other way a team advances is if they finish in the top 5 in the state (total of 6 regions).  My son's team had a top 10 individual, the 12th, 14th, and 27th but they actually did well enough to top every other top region team except the one they competed in (the purpose of the rule).  Those 3 outside of the individual top 10 (including my son) are the only additional people to move on that didn't finish top 10.  If not for finishing top 5 among teams in the entire state, it would have only been the top 10 individuals moving on since the top team already had four of those top people.

From an individual standpoint, it's likely that only one or two of the students from my son's school can make it to nationals.  It doesn't really change much for them whether they compete on a team or not.  Where it matters is potentially getting the other three kids to move on if they can collectively do well enough.  Putting the top 4 together MIGHT get 2 more people to move on.  Not putting them together in any form (especially taking out the top kid) means the only likely chance anyone advances is on individual merit. 

Hopefully that makes more sense.

With six regions even the 4th and 5th place individuals in the region are on the outside of moving on to state all things being equal. Those two probably came in the 12th - 25th range statewide and now will have to crack the top 10 to move on. Using 12th might even be a little generous there. 

As a team they already placed 2nd statewide and now have the chance to replace a high 20s regional individual with the 5th place finisher. The odds of moving on as the properly built team outweigh that of the high individual. 

Easy choice to move the low individual out of the team competition imo.

 

[Nugget]

Do any of the kids have specialties?  Seems like there could be value there.  

 

[gianmarco]

Quick update:

Team finished 4th in the state competition but only a few points behind the 2nd place team.  The order of the finishes of the students stayed the same as regionals (outlier was still the outlier and strongest was still the strongest).  If the strongest student had competed on the team instead of the outlier, the entire team would have finished 2nd and all 4 of those students would be going to nationals.  The strongest student finished 13th overall and thus missed the cutoff of top 10 so now none of them get to move onto nationals. 

Unfortunate  :(

 

[bagger]

Tell them to figure out the statistically optimal solution. They did qualify for a math competition after all.