"What would you want for player X" (1 Viewer)

[JohnnyU]

If you want the player, you make an offerThe other can easily counter

I agree, but the problem lies when that person is scared to death of being taken to the cleaners and makes a low ball initial offer just to be safe. All he's really accomplished is to kill any chance of getting that player. It's not like a low ball offer will generate a counter offer when that owner isn't really interested in trading player X anyway. It goes right back to what I've been saying, if you want a player, then make a "real" offer to get him. If you give up too much and you know it, don't worry about it. If you give up too much and didn't know it, then maybe you should improve your knowledge of this hobby. By the way, even though I quoted your post, I'm not talking about you personally.

 

[gianmarco]

I don't think there is a "one size fits all" answer to this question. There are too many different scenarios. I will say that normally, I think the owner inquiring about a player should make the first move, either an offer, or just mentioning some names. I will always look at his roster before even responding to him. This eliminates a lot right away. If there is no deal, I just tell him there is nothing I see. If I have a high value on a player and he asks, I will sometimes tell him that if you want him, you will have to overpay...in other words, I don't want to trade him, but I will listen to really strong offers. Sometimes I will tell them I'm not interested in trading the player, but at the same time, I leave the door open by telling them to feel free to make an offer and I will consider it. Now sometimes they ask and you may see some potential deals. I then may ask them if they would be willing to trade player A or B, or whatever in the deal. If I see a way to improve my team, then I'm not going to always tell him to make the first offer. I usually mention players who have more value than what they are asking for, mainly to see if they are serious enough about doing something. Once they respond, you have an idea if there is a possible deal. It really depends on the circumstances how I handle this. But nothing is etched in stone. I don't believe you always have to make the other owner make the first offer. Take control of the negotiations by asking for more value than the player they inquired about. Once dialog has started, you will know soon if there is a reason to proceed.If you automatically tell someone to make the first offer every time they ask this, you may miss out on some good deals. You can be the first to mention names, but when you do, ask for more than your player is worth (not a ridiculous amount more), that way, you maintain control of the negotiations.

 

[purplehaze67]

No nonsense johnny Hey just having a lil' fun here. If ya'll can't take a joke I will buy you a pizza.As far as the original question goes I suggest finding the time in your bizy schedule to look at the dOOds roster. If he aint got the goods for player X just tell the poor guy that "he aint got the goods". If he does have the goods then start working them phones.

If I'm going to do that, as far as I'm concerned now I'm shopping him. I'm certainly going to look over the 10 other rosters to see if this is the ideal team to be dealing with or not. I'm also going to be looking for more then 'fair" return, which will see me putting up some potentially "lopsided" deals on the table. Since I'm happy standing pat, doing a "2 nickels for a dime" type deal isn't going to do it. All this to try to trade someone I want to keep leaves me firmly in "why bother" territory. If he or anyone else wants to formulate something, we can go from there. Until then, he's simply not interested enough.

Or you could just start a thread on a message board about how uncouth the dOOd is. That is a good bet to have the most entertainment value regardless.

Sorry it bothered you so much, just trying to stir a little trade philosophy discussion. Wasn't really looking for advice as much as seeing how others felt and how they handled it. Won't happen again. But hey, at least you got a chance to be a little condescending and break out your cool "dOOd" and "bizy" lingo. That's worth something somewhere.

 

[Biabreakable]

No nonsense johnny Hey just having a lil' fun here. If ya'll can't take a joke I will buy you a pizza.As far as the original question goes I suggest finding the time in your bizy schedule to look at the dOOds roster. If he aint got the goods for player X just tell the poor guy that "he aint got the goods". If he does have the goods then start working them phones.

If I'm going to do that, as far as I'm concerned now I'm shopping him. I'm certainly going to look over the 10 other rosters to see if this is the ideal team to be dealing with or not. I'm also going to be looking for more then 'fair" return, which will see me putting up some potentially "lopsided" deals on the table. Since I'm happy standing pat, doing a "2 nickels for a dime" type deal isn't going to do it. All this to try to trade someone I want to keep leaves me firmly in "why bother" territory. If he or anyone else wants to formulate something, we can go from there. Until then, he's simply not interested enough.

Or you could just start a thread on a message board about how uncouth the dOOd is. That is a good bet to have the most entertainment value regardless.

Sorry it bothered you so much, just trying to stir a little trade philosophy discussion. Wasn't really looking for advice as much as seeing how others felt and how they handled it. Won't happen again. But hey, at least you got a chance to be a little condescending and break out your cool "dOOd" and "bizy" lingo. That's worth something somewhere.

Do you like peperoni on your pizza then?I am having fun here sorry your not feeling that. But I don't think I am the one being condecending here at all nor was I bothered. I was ammused. Stop projecting your reactions onto me. Trade philosophy? Sure there are times where I do not want to move a player at all. Like LT last year. I still tried looking at it but in the end nothing would have been enough to trade him. Talk to more than one owner? Of course why limit your options. Your not shopping the guy anyways. I was just kidding before but your last post definitly being a jerk.glll peas hope you like that lingo too even if its not worth anything.

 

[Patoons]

If you want the player, you make an offerThe other can easily counter

I agree, but the problem lies when that person is scared to death of being taken to the cleaners and makes a low ball initial offer just to be safe. All he's really accomplished is to kill any chance of getting that player. It's not like a low ball offer will generate a counter offer when that owner isn't really interested in trading player X anyway. It goes right back to what I've been saying, if you want a player, then make a "real" offer to get him. If you give up too much and you know it, don't worry about it. If you give up too much and didn't know it, then maybe you should improve your knowledge of this hobby. By the way, even though I quoted your post, I'm not talking about you personally.

I agree with that. I guess when I say "make an offer", I'm assuming it's a legitimate offer. Good to clarify though.

 

[jstephany]

Find out where the owner's from, or his favorite team. No matter how much owners say that there is no homerism(favoritism), deep down, this makes a difference. I work w/ players that have gone to colleges near where he's from, or have been born near where he's from. Depends on the owner, but I use a cheatsheet with that league's scoring system.

jms

 

[purplehaze67]

I am having fun here sorry your not feeling that. But I don't think I am the one being condecending here at all nor was I bothered. I was ammused. Stop projecting your reactions onto me.

Right. This had zero condescension:

Or you could just start a thread on a message board about how uncouth the dOOd is. That is a good bet to have the most entertainment value regardless.

or this cute little gem from earlier on:

If there is somthing you see that might work out to your satisfaction then would it be so wrong to tell him what that might be? Imagine that. You would be at the begining stage of a negotiation.

None at all there, sure. If you say so.As far as "bothered" goes, please re-read post #13. Clearly you came here bothered right off the bat for reasons unknown.

And I gotta love the "projecting your reactions onto me" shtick. Quite the comedian you try to be, but it's a transparent ploy. You were the one who started with the attacks. Sorry, but that's the truth here. To try to pin it back on me is feeble and I find it quite disingenuous.

Bottom line is many here have given opinions and told tales from their perspective. Both sides of the coin have been well-represented and no one else seems to share the utter disrespect for dissenting views that you seem to have. Not sure why. The only one who came in to get on people's cases was you. No one else made it personal. Only you. No disputing that at all.

For some reason, this topic and/or the responses bothered you, and you came into the thread to make sure I/we knew that. That's a shame, but there is always the option to move onto more pleasant pursuits if some of the posts here cause you so much angst. It certainly wasn't my intent.

If you would like to discuss your opinions on these types of offers and how how you handle them, what's worked and what hasn't, etc., that'd be great. If you want to continue to beseech me to do it the way you would, it's going to continue to be bad. Your choice.

Trade philosophy? Sure there are times where I do not want to move a player at all. Like LT last year. I still tried looking at it but in the end nothing would have been enough to trade him. Talk to more than one owner? Of course why limit your options. Your not shopping the guy anyways. I was just kidding before but your last post definitly being a jerk.

You have made several posts here telling me that I need to work on a trade with this guy, aka do it the way you would do it. Even though I didn't start this as a "what should I do" topic, you decided more than once to tell me what I should do and get all humphy when I didn't seem to race off to employ your unsolicited advice. Sorry, but it's not happening. Get over it.I have tried to explain a few times why it's not in the plans, but those replies seem to have been ignored or glossed over in favor of non-productive, snide remarks and re-iterations of you telling me to do what you'd do, over and over. I am no closer to that now then I was before. You decided to move the discussion onto "jerk" territory, so don't give me any guff for following you in.

How it goes the rest of the way is up to you. I'd hope you'd provide some constructive opinion/history/insight on your experiences with this tactic but if you want to continue to keep sniping (oh, I'm sorry, I meant "having fun", cuz this is a big ol' grin and gigglefest, right?), I can live with that too.

 

[-OZ-]

 

[lions327]

 

[redman]

Hey purplehaze67, what will you take for your thin skin?

 

[Biabreakable]

Ah dear purplehaze67,1st of all I want to say that I have plenty of respect for you GB and I think you may be taking my sarcasm a bit too personal. Much of my flippant comments come from my personal experience dealing with a variety of different owners in leagues where I am shooting in the dark and never really know what those owners may actualy be thinking. So there is the usefullness of this thread to me to hear some other perspectives on those types of situations.As far as your specific case I don't know enough about this other owner from your original post to judge what his intentions may be. More than likely your assesment is more spot on than my assumptions.Assumption 1. Owner may be naive about player X value. Maybe this is not the case but thats possible. Especialy when a player as you have indicated has high value that would command a lot in return in trade that a player X for player A type offer would not be enough. In my opinion in a case like this where multiple assets would have to be found to match the value of player X the best place to start would be to ask the owner first if they would be willing to trade player X and if so what do they want in return for that player.Your answer to this question was somewhat ambigious. Several young players and draft picks without being specific about any particular players. Now for me this would be enough where I would start suggesting specific players that I have to see if those players would interest you. But if this owner is naive he may not know enough what you mean by your statement to do this and playing such a guessing game especialy over email if communication is not more real time would be a somewhat difficult task even for an experienced owner. It would then be much more efficient communication if you were to be more specific about players that would be of interest to you.Bottom line here is if you do not want to trade then just say so. I know I allready said this more than once. And if so then why bother critiqing the owners tactics? Just for your own information I will identify specificly your statements and others here that I found to be snobby and jerkish. Maybe you can use that information to improve future negotiations if you choose to. One thing I know about dynasty leagues and trading is that these relationships last years. You have a poor interaction with a fellow owner that has a long lasting influence on communication moving forward.

A guy sends me an unsolicited email

So the guy should wait for you to contact him 1st before sending you an email?

What? He wants this player, he must have some idea of his worth, I told him at a high level what I'd need to do a trade, but I now have to actually generate the proposal? How about if you want him, you do the legwork?

I am not sure what you mean by "on a high level" but clearly you don't want to let the guy know what he has that you would want. I am ammused that you and others consider the guys question and not forming an offer to be lazy, while at the same time you wont look at the guys roster.. that your too busy.. but your not lazy. Heh. But hey it is this guys dime. So why wonder why he doesen't get back to you on that tho? Why not just let it go then?

I have a strict rule that whomever initiates the trade talks must be the one who makes the first offer

I think a lot of owners work this way. And combine that with them never telling other owners what assets they have that they might want leads to a lot of offers from owners that are trying to hit a dartboard blindfolded. I ushualy wont deal with people like this because it is too hard to figure out the deal having to work both sides of it. I will make offers after studying that teams needs and get rejections without comment. I never know if I was close to making a deal or not. Kind of like playing minesweeper without the numbers. Like I said ushualy cannot make deals with owners like this and they are no fun to have in leagues either coz they ushualy are just as quiet on message boards and generaly as fun as a log.

just don't see a lot of need to make time to browse rosters of anyone who might float some general interest in one of my top players across the 15 or so leagues I'm in

Ok then why wonder why the guy never got back to you? I am seeing now from re-reading the thread that my reactions to it are based off of years of owners who stonewall and never provide any information. I have recently been trying to deal with an owner like this pursuing Steven Jackson from him. So now I realize maybe part of that experience influenced my frustration and ammusment in this thread. The difference being that I have made several offers to this owner. As I do see both of our teams as being a good fit for a trade. Moreso than any other team in my league. I appologize for any of that experience effecting my drunken joking reactions last night. As I do now see that was part of it for me. It can be very annoying trying to work out a deal in a league with a bunch of stiffs who don't trade. I am in a 12 team league like this where there are only about 4 owners who are activly looking to trade. It really cramps my style and I have had to build through the draft (which takes longer) to get my team to the point where it is now working around these 7 other owners who must be happy as clams with pretty much the same rosters they started out with 4 years ago.I do take issue with the owner to make the 1st offer being at a disadvantage. I propose lots of deals and I do not feel that way about it at all. I always present deals I can live with. Some owners might be annoyed with some of the offers I make. But without having free-flowing communication I am not going to hand myself out to dry on my 1st offers either. I am going to hang them out instead. If they dont want to negotiate informaly I don't see any way to find a "fair" offer right away. It is going to take some counter-proposal to arrive at that because those owners do not want to discuss a deal prior to a proposal.Assumption 2. The owner is serious about making a deal and not just pulling your chain. Now you and other have said that this owners approach is lazy and maybe it is. If that is your assesment then why waste the time of day wondering about why? What I see ensuing here is this game of cat and mouse with information. No one wants to lay thier cards on the table in a subtle game of subterfuge and mistrust. I talk to a lot of my competetors and I am used to this but this witholding of information doesent do anyone any good. Trade talks involving player X may not even matter that much the owner may just be trying to find out what assets he has that may be of interest to you. That information could lead to a unrelated deal that both owners might take part in. Personaly I tell people who they have that I might want. I give them a list. This helps those owners make offers to me if they choose to. I like it if owners tell me what assets I have that they want. That helps me make offers to them. It is very unproductive when I am dealing with people who do not want to share information. I still make offers to them anyways. But often times I am barking up the wrong tree presenting those owners players they have no interest in. Why? Because they never bothered to tell me " I do not like player Y"Now I may be wrong but when I read some of the comments made earlier in this thread I get the feeling of dealing with owners who never will be open in thier communication. Perhaps they think this gives them an advantage? I will definitly send these owners less trade proposals because I never knew that they liked player Z.As far as your other comments about personal attacks or whatever? I don't know why your thinking that. I was joking around. I was not bothered at all in post 13 but rather just laying on thick what could be summed up as "you have to give a little (information) to get a little" I also was not addressing just you specificly but multiple posts of the 1st 12 combined with my own personal experience.I never said purplehaze67 you should do this my way. I really don't know where your getting that impression from. I am far from a person who expects anyone to do what I say coz I said so especialy when my comments were clearly being flippant and sarcastic. Well at least clear to me. I honestly not sure where your getting the impression I expect you to take my advice or somthing? If there was no deal there I did say there is no deal there so why bother? But my comments were meant for anyone to read if they wanted to not specificly directed at anyone.I will now edit in the specific comments I thought were snobby just for info purposes. Listen or don't listen FWIW doesen't really matter to me. I am not buzzed anymore so this isn't as entertaining to me as it was yesterday.Ok nuff said on this. gllll peas.

 

[Dreamer]

In leagues where many owners prefer not to trade, an email telling me they're open for business is greatly appreciated.

 

[Bri]

Some of the replies here are wrong.

If I send you an insultingly lopsided offer, how would you feel?

Make a reasonable offer and add a smidge to it. Don't act like you need a lopsided trade to win your league but instead win it fairly and/or reasonably.

Lopsided trades do not bode well for participants getting along well and league continuity

 

[lions327]

All I know is if someone asks me that question, and I see a potential deal that I like and that may be workable, I will make some kind of offer or mention some players, rather than insisting the other owner does first. Of course, what I mention will be a lot steeper to begin with than what he would mention, but that's what he gets for asking me to name players. I will not get ridiculous to the point of it being really lopsided, but it will be strongly in my favor. I want it just strong enough that it will require further negotiation to get it done, but not bad enough to be insulting. That is how you can take control of the negotiating right from the start, even when you make the first move.

I find that being open minded in situations like this may get you an extra deal once in a while that you otherwise will not get.

 

[wannabee]

I agree with Lions and Bia above. But, I also think all of those reading this thread that employ "what do you want for X" strategy might read the replies and see if there is a better approach for them as well. For those using this strategy, it might be best to ask what type of players/picks would you need for player X. I say this because if you go so far to initiate contact, might as well be in a way not to put others off. Just a thought. Many different people in many different leagues. Different approaches must be used.

 

[chris1969]

I normally respond with "What ya got?"

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I do that myself a lot. Yes, you should make an offer if you want a player, but some owners undervalue their own guys. If I can get them to state what it would take, I have a shot of getting the guy for less.

If someone did it to me, I'd do what just about everyone has said. But not everyone reads this board.

 

[Biabreakable]

I normally respond with "What ya got?"

:serious bidness:

 

[Smizzy]

Sometime I will send an email like this because I don't want to overpay and I don't want to scare them away with a lowball off either. I find that with a comment like this you make the other owner feel like he has the upper hand in the situation which I find gives the owner a greater chance of moving said player. With trading it's all about control or the illusion of control. Over the years I find the best way to get a trade made it to let the other guy feel and think he is getting the player he wants at a decent price.

If I tell an owner to look over my roster and tell me who he likes...there is a chance he might like a guy I don't value so much...by by letting him go first he tips his hand and then I know what cards to play. Instead of sending him an offer which looks like I don't vlaue the players I sent very much.

It's a game within the game. Knowing how I work it's easy to know what he is doing. These guys aren't inventing the wheel here. same #### different angle.

 

[SSOG]

This past week, as the season has been wrapping up, I went around to everyone in my dynasty league and sent them a list of players who I was generally interested in (i.e. probably valued higher than the general public at the moment) and asked for a "price check" to see if they valued them higher, lower, or the same as the general public. I'm not necessarily looking to make any trades (although I'm sure that I'll see some values that I like), I'm really just compiling an offseason shopping list. I'm not even looking for specific offers, either- I'm looking for something like "I'd want some young players and draft picks in return", or "I'd like a stud RB in return", or "I want some quality WR depth in return", that sort of thing.

One of the guys I requested a price check on was Antonio Gates. The owner responded by saying that he wanted a top-12 WR in return. I asked if he considered Owens a top-12 WR. He said that he did. I offered the trade on the website, he accepted, and everyone went on with their lives.

 

[Genester]

I think the prevalent attitude here is really snobby and most of you sound like jerks.Yes the guy did not make an offer but he is at least giving you information. He wants player X. That is a begining half of the conversation right there. Why is this such bad form?

Not sure if this is directed solely to others, or if I am in the "snobby, jerk-sounding" boat as well. But, the way I look at it is, if you want something of mine, you need to take the initiative at some point on getting something on the table to convince me to deal. I've got no problem with his first email, to see if the player was even available but I do want to see a little effort on his end, when he finds that I want youngsters and picks.

Do you want to come out ahead on this deal and improve your team? Or are you looking for the right approach or decorum from the other guy? At the end of the day, is your goal to win a championship or to teach this guy how to make a trade offer properly? Seems like a classic example of communication styles getting in the way of (potential) progress.

 

[NeverEnough]

I just don't understand and can't deal w/people anymore. Last night I tried to work out a deal that would send TO to the Wayne owner & bring Wayne to me. He told me TO was a 1 year wonder this year. Wow is all I can say...

 

[coolnerd]

Since this thread appeared, I have had the following happened in at least three different leagues. the person comes with the "what would it take question?.' In all cases, I answer in what I believe is a realistic manner. the offer I get in return bares no resemblance to what I answered. Obviously, in these cases the person is not really interested what you said, but the fact that you did not shutdown the inquiry. BTW, my responses varied in all cases because my relationship with the owners varied.

 

[Keys Myaths]

This is my pet peeve in fantasy football. For example, as soon as a draft is over I HATE when another owner puts messages out to the entire league non-stop stating that "he likes to trade so send him an offer for any of his players, blah, blah, blah". I want to punch these people in the brain.

I actually like these owners. They're the ones who will overvalue certain types of players, or get frustrated after a bad start, and trade whomever they have.The problem is, a lot of people in here get offended whenever a trade isn't offered in the exact protocol they're looking for, and they miss out on huge opportunities.