Who am I? (1 Viewer)

[badmother]

I don't like him at all. As others have stated, the coach and the team don't have much confidence in him. The team sucks so there won't be a lot of scoring opportunities and I don't see the team turning it around anytime soon. It just all adds up to a bad situation.

After last season, I thought of J Harrison and J Charles as 2 players that broke out at the end of last season and would be players selected in the top 4 rounds. Similar team situation, KC has a slight better offence but Clevland has a much better Oline. KC brings in TJones and JC's value stays in the top 3 rounds. Clevland brings in Hardesty and harrisons value sinks to the 9th+ rd. Neither player was drafted as a stud, charles in 4th harrison in the 5th. Why is Charles looked at as the man and Harrison a scrub? Not saying that i think there equal but i don't think you can ignore a guy that rushes for 286 yards and 3 tds against a pro defense.

 

[Instinctive]

As someone pointed out in another thread, Harrison got an incredible number of carries in those games to do what he did. Since no one can imagine him getting that many carries a game, no one really expects much from him. Makes sense no?

I wasn't making a big deal about his yardage totals in those games. Ok, so he wont rush for 180 every week, but given the stats above, why not give it a shot and see what happens if you're the coach? Start him for a few weeks, against all defenses good and bad, get him 25 carries per game, and see what happens. Based on what he has done in the past (yes, against weaker defenses and on more carries, but those are the only real samples we have), you might just end up pleasantly surprised. If Hardesty remains hurt and Harrison starts running all over the league again and the team gets wins, do you bench him again when Hardesty comes back?

No way. I direct you to this thread for a huge discussion on him:http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=550263

Posts: #57, #94, #108 (haha), #114 especially

 

[Otis]

I concur when it comes to the statement that tries to tie the wins and losses to Harrison starting or not. The Browns were 4-2 against teams with losing records and 1-9 against teams with winning records. And as stated above, the win against the team with a winning record (Steelers), Harrison started and it seems he was completely ineffective.Also in regard to this:

...Well I think the coach realizes his YPC was very low

Except that isn't true. He averaged 5 YPC over that span and 4.4 over his seven starts.

One thing that jumps out at me is that his yards per carry IS low throughout the season, except for one tremendous game that skews his final averages. He has a 34 carry game at 8.4 ypc, a 5 carry game at 5.2 ypc, and a 29 carry game at 4.2 yards per carry.Other than that, his other 13 games are all below 4 yards per carry. 5 of his 7 starts are below 4 yards per carry. His carries are so skewed from a normal distribution that I think I'd be talking about his mode average rather than his mean average if my goal was to give a true reflection of how he did rather than sell a side of an argument. He looks like he was a 3.8 yards per carry back last year who had 1 tremendous game with a huge workload against a weak run defense.

Haven't we been doing this long enough that we know better than to play this game of take out the long run/big game/other to show the guy isn't very good?Also, CLE plays KC just like last year. Are we all taking off from fantasy stuff that week?

I'm surprised you'd try to equate the two. I pointed out he had a near record setting event which seems completely at odds with his performance otherwise. To the point you would probably never expect it to recur in his career again.Do you really think that equates with removing long plays or multi touchdown games

Absolutely.

 

[Otis]

Hardesty apparently hurt. Again. And who is the forgotten man? Per Rotoworld:

Montario Hardesty left Thursday's preseason finale in the second quarter with a left knee injury.

Hardesty, who looked terrific with 25 yards and a touchdown on seven totes before the injury, was able to walk off the field and into the locker room under his own power. While any injury is a concern for a player with as checkered a history as Hardesty's, the good news is that this is not the same knee that's troubled him all camp. His previous injury was to his right knee. In the game, Hardesty displayed impressive quickness and power between the tackles. He started, playing ahead of James Davis and Chris Jennings.

 

[Otis]

The guy with a track record of NFL success continues to get zero respect from FBG:

Tough break here for Hardesty. Jerome Harrison and Peyton Hillis now will likely carry the load. Harrison would look to be the primary guy but he's failed to really take the mantle while Hillis has looked teasingly good at times.

...

If you made me decide right now, it looks like a Running Back By Committee that I'd shy away from. If you made me pick a guy to take a flyer on, I'd probably roll the dice on Hillis as he's a guy that seems like he has upside if you could get him for very little cost.

I still don't understand why anyone wouldn't take Harrison here. Despite everything discussed in this thread, and now -- surprise -- Hardesty is hurt yet again, and Hillis is the guy people are talking about? I remember some years ago being so high on Gore before his breakout season, and seeing FBG and lots of posters being non-believers. I was certain he would blow up. I don't think Harrison is even a quarter of Gore's pure talent, but i am nearly as certain that he'll be productive behind that Oline this year and will be significantly better than his ADP. But I'm apparently in the minority again and im usually wrong about stuff anyway. I still don't get it.

 

[Giant Wooden Badger]

I still don't get it.

He's an average talent on a terrible team. He'll have a decent game here and there but will be otherwise unstartable. Not that hard to figure out.

 

[Otis]

I still don't get it.

He's an average talent on a terrible team. He'll have a decent game here and there but will be otherwise unstartable. Not that hard to figure out.

They're better run blockers than you think, have limited options on offense, and have some good matchups against bad run defenses (eg, KC). In the past he has put up dominating games in those situations. Yet we're looking at Hillis?Aye....

 

[Clifton]

I still don't get it.

He's an average talent on a terrible team. He'll have a decent game here and there but will be otherwise unstartable. Not that hard to figure out.

Average talent doesn't rush for 1,000 yards in 4 games.

 

[Giant Wooden Badger]

I still don't get it.

He's an average talent on a terrible team. He'll have a decent game here and there but will be otherwise unstartable. Not that hard to figure out.

They're better run blockers than you think, have limited options on offense, and have some good matchups against bad run defenses (eg, KC). In the past he has put up dominating games in those situations. Yet we're looking at Hillis?Aye....

I agree with you on Hillis. He's garbage from a fantasy perspective. Just don't see any reason to be all that excited about Harrison. I'll give you that he's good value at his ADP.

 

[Giant Wooden Badger]

I still don't get it.

He's an average talent on a terrible team. He'll have a decent game here and there but will be otherwise unstartable. Not that hard to figure out.

Average talent doesn't rush for 1,000 yards in 4 games.

We've been over this.

 

[Clifton]

Yet we're looking at Hillis?Aye....

Now imagine Harrison was white

 

[cvnpoka]

I don't have a subcription to ProFootballFocus.com so I can't look it up anymore, but last year it was free and you could access their positional rankings for RBs or any other position including linemen. They look at every play and grade the player's performance on a range from +2 to -2 and it includes blocking, running, receiving, penalties, etc. They tally the total points for each player and then rank them.If I remember correctly, even near the end of the year after his big rushing games, Harrison was still a very lowly rated RB. He was still a horrible blocker last year and that is what has kept him off the field during his career. To those that say "who cares about blocking?", it only takes one missed block for a sack to occur and more likely than not the drive is done. I will concede however that there is anectdotal evidence that Harrison was effective based on the Brown's 4-3 record when he started.Interestingly enough, I think LT Joe Thomas was the highest rated tackle in the NFL and center Alex Mack was near the top of the league also. LG Eric Steinbach was one of the worst guards however, despite his reputation as a solid guard that helps solidify the left side of the line.

pft's "grades" are akin to drawing random numbers out of a hat.

 

[Otis]

I still don't get it.

He's an average talent on a terrible team. He'll have a decent game here and there but will be otherwise unstartable. Not that hard to figure out.

They're better run blockers than you think, have limited options on offense, and have some good matchups against bad run defenses (eg, KC). In the past he has put up dominating games in those situations. Yet we're looking at Hillis?Aye....

I agree with you on Hillis. He's garbage from a fantasy perspective. Just don't see any reason to be all that excited about Harrison. I'll give you that he's good value at his ADP.

The reason to be excited about him is because he can finish a top 20 RB or better and at far, far cheaper. That is how you win this stupid game. I think he's a lock to break 1k yards rushing if they give him a season full of starts, with potential well above that.

 

[Clifton]

Lets remember one thing, folks. He had the 3rd most productive rushing game in NFL history. These things don't just happen.

 

[cvnpoka]

ya i think its funny that his detractors are attempting to somehow use his best performance against him.

 

[Giant Wooden Badger]

I still don't get it.

He's an average talent on a terrible team. He'll have a decent game here and there but will be otherwise unstartable. Not that hard to figure out.

Average talent doesn't rush for 1,000 yards in 4 games.

Neither did he, by the way.

 

[Otis]

Lets remember one thing, folks. He had the 3rd most productive rushing game in NFL history. These things don't just happen.

I might argue it was a total fluke if he hadn't rushed for over 120 yards in the three other games where he was given more than 20 carries.

 

[Otis]

ya i think its funny that his detractors are attempting to somehow use his best performance against him.

Dumb luck and flukes don't win fantasy football games for you, folks.**unless you started Jerome Harrison week 14 last year.

 

[Clifton]

ya i think its funny that his detractors are attempting to somehow use his best performance against him.

Dumb luck and flukes don't win fantasy football games for you, folks.**unless you started Jerome Harrison week 14 last year.

A few of us sharks had him at flex that week.

 

[cvnpoka]

i cut him after the pitt game lol

 

[The Sniper]

"Obviously there is a reason he only has such a small sample after 4 years in the league and a reason why he has only been "sufficiently" involved on such a limited basis."

Sometimes it takes a while for talent to rise to the top. Look at the career path of Priest Holmes. He was stuck behind Eric Rhett!