Who is the #14 best basketball player of all-time? (1 Viewer)

[Frostillicus]

1. Michael Jordan (71%)
2. Lebron james (85%).
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (34%).
4. Wilt Chamberlain (31%).
5. Magic Johnson (33%).
6. Larry Bird (44%).
7. Bill Russell (67%).
8. Shaquille O'Neal (31%)
9. Tim Duncan (53%).
10. Hakeem Olajuwon (36%).
11. Kobe Bryant (37%).
12. Oscar Robertson (49%).
13. Stephen Curry (74%).
14. ???????????? (first to 25 votes wins)

 

[Jayrod]

This is the first time I'm going to have to really think about it.

 

[Snoopy]

#13 was so controversial that there was no winner?

 

[Galileo]

#13 was so controversial that there was no winner?

Unlucky number...skip it

 

[Frostillicus]

#13 was so controversial that there was no winner?

Fixed!

 

[Jayrod]

I can make a strong argument for 7 of these guys.

 

[AAABatteries]

I can make a strong argument for 7 of these guys.

I'm going to throw some love at The Admiral - #2 all-time in WS/48.

 

[Frostillicus]

I can make a strong argument for 7 of these guys.

Which two do you not like?

 

[Jayrod]

I can make a strong argument for 7 of these guys.

Which two do you not like?

Baylor and Barkley. They really don't belong with this tier.

 

[Kev4029]

Here is my argument against Durant:

He's a little *****.

 

[Kev4029]

I can make a strong argument for 7 of these guys.

I'm going to throw some love at The Admiral - #2 all-time in WS/48.

Jokic is gaining!

 

[Jayrod]

Kev dropping truth up in here.

 

[thecatch]

I can make a strong argument for 7 of these guys.

Which two do you not like?

Baylor and Barkley. They really don't belong with this tier.

Barkley is definitely in the Garnett tier.

 

[Jayrod]

Pretty sure I'm going to vote for Moses.

3 MVPs, a Finals MVP, couple of all-defensive teams and the most prolific offensive rebounder in history, plus the 10 commandments and that whole Red Sea thing...guy had a heck of a career.

 

[TripItUp]

Kevin Durant for me, not very close. Slim reaper arguably the best offensive player to ever play the game and a plus defender when he wanted to be.

Logo is a distant 2nd for me.

 

[Frostillicus]

1. Michael Jordan (71%)
2. Lebron james (85%).

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3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (34%).
4. Wilt Chamberlain (31%).
5. Magic Johnson (33%).
6. Larry Bird (44%).
7. Bill Russell (67%).

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8. Shaquille O'Neal (31%)
9. Tim Duncan (53%).
10. Hakeem Olajuwon (36%).
11. Kobe Bryant (37%).
12. Oscar Robertson (49%).
13. Stephen Curry (74%).

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14. ???????????? (first to 25 votes wins)

Pretty clear first 3 tiers. I wonder if that kind of pattern will continue or if things will be more splintered as we keep going.

 

[titusbramble]

Clear Dr J for me, after that it's a bit of a cluster

 

[msudaisy26]

Talent wise Durant looks like he should be a tier ahead of all these guys, but then add in the burner accounts, the injuries, the trade demands, and all the other crap and it makes this very difficult.

 

[BobbyLayne]

The Doctor

 

[Jayrod]

I'm trying to decide between Dr. J & Moses. I feel like their longevity of excellence plus some truly great peak seasons. They mean more historically to the game than anyone else. Since this is "basketball" and not just NBA, Dr. J's ABA dominance counts (3 MVP's & 2 rings). In the waning years of that league, he was the clear cut best player in that league and he didn't miss a beat in the first few years after the merger, indicating it wasn't due to the ABA being a "weaker" league.

Even Jerry West as great as he was for so long was only able to get the one ring and never landed an MVP. Durant's only titles were with the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" Warriors alongside Curry and has only one MVP. Robinson never won a ring as an alpha (but did have a DPOY with his MVP). KG just feels a hair behind by never being able to get it done without the superteam in Boston (and then only getting it done once) despite the MVP/DPOY combo. Similar with Karl and his 2 MVP's, but no rings.

My heart is saying Moses, because I feel like he may be the most underappreciated player on this list and he dominated for long stretches in a VERY competitive era of the NBA (3 MVPs!?!). But Dr. J meant more to the game as he was the godfather to Magic, MJ and exciting, high-flying basketball. Although, to be fair, their only NBA title for each of them was together on the same team, but that was after peak Dr. J (Moses' Fo-Fo-Fo prediction which was off by only 1 game).

 

[nysfl2]

Talent wise Durant looks like he should be a tier ahead of all these guys, but then add in the burner accounts, the injuries, the trade demands, and all the other crap and it makes this very difficult.

Also, he's never won a title, except when he decided the Warriors were too good for him to beat so he joined them for a cheap title

 

[Kev4029]

Pretty sure I'm going to vote for Moses.

3 MVPs, a Finals MVP, couple of all-defensive teams and the most prolific offensive rebounder in history, plus the 10 commandments and that whole Red Sea thing...guy had a heck of a career.

Moses was my vote as well. He gets overshadowed and forgotten in these discussions.

 

[Kev4029]

Kevin Durant for me, not very close. Slim reaper arguably the best offensive player to ever play the game and a plus defender when he wanted to be.

Logo is a distant 2nd for me.

Let's hear that argument.

 

[Capella]

Talent wise Durant looks like he should be a tier ahead of all these guys, but then add in the burner accounts, the injuries, the trade demands, and all the other crap and it makes this very difficult.

Also, he's never won a title, except when he decided the Warriors were too good for him to beat so he joined them for a cheap title

Just to fact check, he’s won 2 titles and 2 finals MVPs. You can attach all the asterisks you want but those are the facts.

 

[TripItUp]

Pretty sure I'm going to vote for Moses.

3 MVPs, a Finals MVP, couple of all-defensive teams and the most prolific offensive rebounder in history, plus the 10 commandments and that whole Red Sea thing...guy had a heck of a career.

Moses was my vote as well. He gets overshadowed and forgotten in these discussions.

For me, Malone is dinged because his game would not be as effective in the modern era. Still in my top 20 but no way is he ahead of a player like Durant.

 

[TripItUp]

Let's hear that argument.

‘Best Offensive Player’: Michael Jordan’s Rival Picks Kevin Durant as the Greatest Scorer | NBA News

Michael Jordan's rival Grant Hill gave his opinion on the NBA's greatest offensive player. Why did he pick Kevin Durant over Michael Jordan?

www.essentiallysports.com

 

[HellToupee]

for me it’s easily Moses Malone

 

[Kev4029]

Let's hear that argument.

‘Best Offensive Player’: Michael Jordan’s Rival Picks Kevin Durant as the Greatest Scorer | NBA News

Michael Jordan's rival Grant Hill gave his opinion on the NBA's greatest offensive player. Why did he pick Kevin Durant over Michael Jordan?

www.essentiallysports.com

Because Grant Hill said so?

 

[Kev4029]

Pretty sure I'm going to vote for Moses.

3 MVPs, a Finals MVP, couple of all-defensive teams and the most prolific offensive rebounder in history, plus the 10 commandments and that whole Red Sea thing...guy had a heck of a career.

Moses was my vote as well. He gets overshadowed and forgotten in these discussions.

For me, Malone is dinged because his game would not be as effective in the modern era. Still in my top 20 but no way is he ahead of a player like Durant.

Players with more MVPs than Moses: Wilt, Russell, Jordan, Kareem, Lebron

 

[TripItUp]

Dr. J is not close to the basketball player that Durant was.

If you want to give him style point, or "influence/impact" points fine, but don't pretend that Dr. J could hold a candle to peak Durant.

 

[Jayrod]

Kevin Durant for me, not very close. Slim reaper arguably the best offensive player to ever play the game and a plus defender when he wanted to be.

Logo is a distant 2nd for me.

Let's hear that argument.

Yeah, off the top of my head I think MJ, Curry and Jokic are clearly better offensive players. When all is said and done Jokic may be the greatest offensive threat of all time. Curry's EFG% & TS% are better and his assist numbers are obviously better. MJ is still the GOAT in nearly every advanced offensive metric.

 

[Gally]

I went with Garnett barely above Robinson. Moses and Dr J take a hit for me because I never watched them in their prime. I got the tail end of their careers and that is probably tainting my evaluations of them. I also placed my vote just on gut feel reading the down the list. If I had it to do over again after thinking on it some it likely skews to one of the old guys.

It likely should be Moses or Dr J here but I just couldn't pull the trigger. It's really a coin flip for them as they each brought something to the table that was unique and unstoppable in some way. If one of them doesn't win this time around I will likely go with the other in the next vote.

 

[TripItUp]

Because Grant Hill said so?

Not just Grant Hill. A host of analysts and NBA players consider him at a minimum in the conversation.

But I know statboys don't like that argument, they want to pretend they are smarter than actual NBA experts because they can look at "advanced metrics" that tell the narrative they want to tell.

It's the exact reason why non-basketball players don't understand the greatness of Kobe and to some extent Magic Johnson and several others that don't provide the stats that statboys lazily rely on.

This list is somewhat guilty of all of that and an inictment of the lack of actual basketball knowledge the voters here are displaying.

I was happy to see Magic get his due though, so it's not a complete wash....he is usually dinged by the statboys.

 

[TripItUp]

Yeah, off the top of my head I think MJ, Curry and Jokic are clearly better offensive players. When all is said and done Jokic may be the greatest offensive threat of all time. Curry's EFG% & TS% are better and his assist numbers are obviously better. MJ is still the GOAT in nearly every advanced offensive metric.

A) Curry would have been significantly less effective in the handcheck era(which is most of the NBA's history)

B) Curry likely would not have physically endured the beating of the earlier eras

C) Jokic is great, and is era agnostic IMHO so he has a stronger case to be considered in the conversation. However, there are smart arguments in general that centers cannot be the greatest offensive players that I won't get into.

 

[Jayrod]

Dr. J is not close to the basketball player that Durant was.

If youi want to give him style point, or "influence/impact" points fine, but don't pretend that Dr. J coud hold a candle to peak Durant.

Durant is a better scorer than Dr.J, I'll give you that, no argument. But Dr J was a better rebounder and defender and they are pretty even in the assist/TO department. All things considered they are pretty even on the basketball court statistically. Dr J has a better net rating and total winshares over his first 15 seasons (to match Durant to date), but Durant has better WS/48, PER & BPM.

Add in the intangibles and I'd give the edge to Dr J pretty easily. He was a pioneer and the story of the NBA cannot be told without him.

 

[Jayrod]

Yeah, off the top of my head I think MJ, Curry and Jokic are clearly better offensive players. When all is said and done Jokic may be the greatest offensive threat of all time. Curry's EFG% & TS% are better and his assist numbers are obviously better. MJ is still the GOAT in nearly every advanced offensive metric.

A) Curry would have been significantly less effective in the handcheck era(which is most of the NBA's history)

B) Curry likely would not have physically endured the beating of the earlier eras

C) Jokic is great, and is era agnostic IMHO so he has a stronger case to be considered in the conversation. However, there are smart arguments in general that centers cannot be the greatest offensive players that I won't get into.

Durant plays in the same "no-handcheck" era as Curry.

 

[TripItUp]

Add in the intangibles and I'd give the edge to Dr J pretty easily. He was a pioneer and the story of the NBA cannot be told without him.

I'm cool with this argument. It's part of being "great."

It holds less water for me personally, but it's a solid argument nonetheless.

 

[TripItUp]

Durant plays in the same "no-handcheck" era as Curry.

Because of Durant's style of play and physical makeup, it's my opinion he would be significantly less impacted...same with Lebron.

 

[Jayrod]

Because Grant Hill said so?

Not just Grant Hill. A host of analysts and NBA players consider him at a minimum in the conversation.

But I know statboys don't like that argument, they want to pretend they are smarter than actual NBA experts because they can look at "advanced metrics" that tell the narrative they want to tell.

It's the exact reason why non-basketball players don't understand the greatness of Kobe and to some extent Magic Johnson and several others that don't provide the stats that statboys lazily rely on.

This list is somewhat guilty of all of that and an inictment of the lack of actual basketball knowledge the voters here are displaying.

I was happy to see Magic get his due though, so it's not a complete wash....he is usually dinged by the statboys.

Sometimes NBA players get trapped into looking at things through certain lenses of their game and miss the bigger picture, which advanced stats tell us. Some of the craziest NBA takes are by ex-NBA players.

Durant's size/shooting skill combination makes him maybe the best "go get a bucket" guy in history. But I wouldn't make that to mean he is the greatest offensive player in history. Shaq, Wilt & Kareem were the most unstoppable (and now Giannis) in history, but they don't belong here either. I'd argue LeBron is probably a better overall offensive player than Durant due to his ability to control the offensive end with scoring & passing.

 

[Jayrod]

Durant plays in the same "no-handcheck" era as Curry.

Because of Durant's style of play and physical makeup, it's my opinion he would be significantly less impacted...same with Lebron.

No argument there. Durant and LeBron could play in any era and be just as great or greater.

 

[TripItUp]

I'd argue LeBron is probably a better overall offensive player than Durant due to his ability to control the offensive end with scoring & passing.

I'd argue that Lebron is overrated offensively(when compared to the GOATs) due to his inability to create his own shot to the same degree Kobe, MJ, Durant and others could.

But this is a rabbithole I don't want to go down.

 

[SWC]

we had a buddy back in the day who would always say other people didnt understand this or that and then give us some wacky take on things and this thread is like every villages that guy came out and started talkin take that to the bank brohans

 

[msudaisy26]

Guys like Stockton and Isaiah Thomas at 6 -1 175 lbs perfectly fine in the hand check era. Curry at 6'2" 190sih could never make it.

Can't make this **** up.

 

[HellToupee]

Guys like Stockton and Isaiah Thomas at 6 -1 175 lbs perfectly fine in the hand check era. Curry at 6'2" 190sih could never make it.

Can't make this **** up.

Talent finds a way. if he grew up in that era his game would adjust. Same with Moses. If he grew up in the modern era his talent would tailor to the game

 

[HellToupee]

Although, to be fair, their only NBA title for each of them was together on the same team, but that was after peak Dr. J (Moses' Fo-Fo-Fo prediction which was off by only 1 game).

I see it as Dr J needed Moses more than Moses needed J. Moses took a team with a losing record to the finals. J went twice to the finals before Moses.

 

[Jayrod]

Yeah, off the top of my head I think MJ, Curry and Jokic are clearly better offensive players. When all is said and done Jokic may be the greatest offensive threat of all time. Curry's EFG% & TS% are better and his assist numbers are obviously better. MJ is still the GOAT in nearly every advanced offensive metric.

A) Curry would have been significantly less effective in the handcheck era(which is most of the NBA's history)

B) Curry likely would not have physically endured the beating of the earlier eras

C) Jokic is great, and is era agnostic IMHO so he has a stronger case to be considered in the conversation. However, there are smart arguments in general that centers cannot be the greatest offensive players that I won't get into.

With Jokic, he is hands down the most atypical center ever with his outside shooting, bringing the ball up the court, outlet passes and passing in general. Dude was 9 assists away this season from averaging a triple double.

 

[TripItUp]

With Jokic, he is hands down the most atypical center ever with his outside shooting, bringing the ball up the court, outlet passes and passing in general. Dude was 9 assists away this season from averaging a triple double.

Sure, but can he create his own shot on the ball vs anybody like Kobe, MJ and Durant could?

And how much do you value that attribute? To me, it's one of the most important and a major reason Kobe and MJ have 11 rings.

Jokic is an all timer, so I'm not dissing him...I just don't put him in the GOAT scorer/offensive player discussion.

 

[msudaisy26]

With Jokic, he is hands down the most atypical center ever with his outside shooting, bringing the ball up the court, outlet passes and passing in general. Dude was 9 assists away this season from averaging a triple double.

Sure, but can he create his own shot on the ball vs anybody like Kobe, MJ and Durant could?

And how much do you value that attribute? To me, it's one of the most important and a major reason Kobe and MJ have 11 rings.

Jokic is an all timer, so I'm not dissing him...I just don't put him in the elite scorer/offensive player discussion.

Nope, he averages 30 PPG on rim runners and offensive rebounds.

 

[Jayrod]

With Jokic, he is hands down the most atypical center ever with his outside shooting, bringing the ball up the court, outlet passes and passing in general. Dude was 9 assists away this season from averaging a triple double.

Sure, but can he create his own shot on the ball vs anybody like Kobe, MJ and Durant couild?

Yes.

Here's a 10 1/2 minute long video of him doing just that in every way imaginable.

 

[Kev4029]

Guys like Stockton and Isaiah Thomas at 6 -1 175 lbs perfectly fine in the hand check era. Curry at 6'2" 190sih could never make it.

Can't make this **** up.

Especially since the biggest part of his game to being the player he is, is his ability to shoot deep off the dribble and to shoot off crazy movement, two things that hand checking wouldn't have changed.

No mention of how illegal defense rules helped a variety of players in the 90s though.