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Who is the better QB? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter LHUCKS
- Start date
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Am I missing something?WoW Really?
Fallerjw
Footballguy
What is each of their records as a starter?
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Looked for a poll, couldn't find one.
Hellfire Snail
Footballguy
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
It probably comes down to how you want to define better.
I'll just say that I'd rather have Orton on my football team as QB than Cutler. Cutler is more of a gunslinger, he takes more chances and with that comes great plays and some plays where you're left shaking your head. Cutler reminds me a lot of Romo, two guys that have a lot of things going for them and show flashes of brilliance at times but often don't protect the football, especially in times where it's required.
Orton was underrated last year. If you watched the Bears, he was solid. He's not Tom Brady but the guy did what he could do in that offense, it wasn't any worse because he was there. I think Orton is the right guy for the Broncos. They have a strong D and he doesn't turn the ball over. It's actually pretty close between the two, a lot closer than some would think.
I'll just say that I'd rather have Orton on my football team as QB than Cutler. Cutler is more of a gunslinger, he takes more chances and with that comes great plays and some plays where you're left shaking your head. Cutler reminds me a lot of Romo, two guys that have a lot of things going for them and show flashes of brilliance at times but often don't protect the football, especially in times where it's required.
Orton was underrated last year. If you watched the Bears, he was solid. He's not Tom Brady but the guy did what he could do in that offense, it wasn't any worse because he was there. I think Orton is the right guy for the Broncos. They have a strong D and he doesn't turn the ball over. It's actually pretty close between the two, a lot closer than some would think.
Hellfire Snail
Footballguy
No, it isn't closer than some think. Anybody on this board watch the Bears play today? Anybody? Their offensive line, defensive line and secondary got MURDERED. That's not an excuse, that's a simple fact. The win-loss record argument is mind-boggling. Cutler might not be the best quarterback in the league, but anybody who thinks Orton is better is insane, fishing or biased in one way or another. I don't care about Chicago or Denver. But these debates are nuts. Some of you don't like Cutler. I get it. Just stop.
Meh . . . Cutler can throw the ball further and harder - but that does not make him a better NFL QB.Todays game (for all those who claim to have watched it):1st drive no points, stalls at Cincy 452nd drive, no points, 3 and out, includes fumbled snap3rd drive, no points, 1 1st down - Hester fumble after being led across the middle.4th drive, no points (seeing a trend?), 2 plays, interception5th drive, 2-minute drill, good drive for a FG to close the gap to 28 before half-time6th drive, no points, interception7th drive, no points, interceptionIt is now 45-3 - at what point did Cutler play a good game?Hellfire Snail said:
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
I did watch the Bears play, not just today but most of their games, and last year too. Troy Aikman visited the Denver practice the game before they played Dallas and he said when he was watching Orton throw balls, he was throwing them so well that he actually said that Orton had the best QB practice he's ever seen any QB have.I was like wow, really......ever. Isn't that a little dramatic. Even if it is, the point I took away from the comment is that Orton is a lot better than people give him credit for.Being a better QB doesn't just mean who can throw the ball harder and farther, ask Joe Montana.Hellfire Snail said:
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
MCguidance
Footballguy
I just put my fly fishing stuff away for the winter, but I think I did too soon. Here we go again.
A lot of room to argue here. But there is no doubt 2 things: Orton is a winner and Cutler has great physical gifts. This is not to say that Cutler cannot win or that Orton does not have the tools to be a good QB. Right now, it is what it is.
A lot of room to argue here. But there is no doubt 2 things: Orton is a winner and Cutler has great physical gifts. This is not to say that Cutler cannot win or that Orton does not have the tools to be a good QB. Right now, it is what it is.
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
I don't understand that. If Cutler is so good, why can't he be THAT GUY you think he is and goes out there and wins the game for you when his team needs it but if you need him at other times to be able to rely on the defense or running game to lead the way, be able to be that guy too. I feel pretty confident that the Broncos are not undefeated right now with Cutler leading the way. If he's there, he makes big mistakes versus Dallas and NE and don't win those games.
Short Corner
Footballguy
So he is basically putting up a bill board where he is going with the ball, and still has 9 less INTs than Cutler. I'm not sure how reliable that sign is.
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
I think Cutler gives his team a much better chance to be great, and a much better chance to be terrible as well. If surrounded by potent offensive weapons capable of torturing defenses and stretching the field, etc., he's simply able to make all the throws and use those weapons in ways that Orton never could. At the same time, in the absence of that level of talent, he'll try to force the issue and struggle.
Orton, surrounded by great talent, could still only be a game manager. On the other hand, surrounded by trash, he'd make few mistakes and still make the team look "pretty good."
Despite the gaudy early record by the Broncos, I don't see them as a real contender this year. I don't think most fans of the best teams in the league are sweating seeing the Broncs roll into town, either.
For me, as a fan, I'd rather take the ups and downs of a talented flake who I know gives my team a chance to get to the top if all the stars align. An Orton may save you a few headaches over the course of the year, but that's not gonna matter after one final adequate performance sees him to the exit in the first round of the playoffs. Orton's just good enough to get a team a poor draft pick every year, without being good enough to give them a real shot at glory.
Vote: Cutler
Orton, surrounded by great talent, could still only be a game manager. On the other hand, surrounded by trash, he'd make few mistakes and still make the team look "pretty good."
Despite the gaudy early record by the Broncos, I don't see them as a real contender this year. I don't think most fans of the best teams in the league are sweating seeing the Broncs roll into town, either.
For me, as a fan, I'd rather take the ups and downs of a talented flake who I know gives my team a chance to get to the top if all the stars align. An Orton may save you a few headaches over the course of the year, but that's not gonna matter after one final adequate performance sees him to the exit in the first round of the playoffs. Orton's just good enough to get a team a poor draft pick every year, without being good enough to give them a real shot at glory.
Vote: Cutler
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
It goes without saying that my vote changes in the off chance the team under consideration has a legendarily good early-2000's Ravens style defense. A team like that only fails to contend if you have a flake at QB. But there's no team like that in today's NFL.
For getting his team a winning record?
Oh Yes!
Footballguy
really? orton would look just as bad as bulger
Short Corner
Footballguy
so would cutler
Maybe, but the team would win.
Hellfire Snail
Footballguy
Statements like this will have fish leaping into the boat. I'll give credit where it's due.
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Jason Wood
Zoo York
This is a expedition as we all know. BUT, the truth is Orton is playing much better than many expected, myself included. Meanwhile Cutler is having his moments, but is also succumbing to the pitfalls of being a gunslinger. Coming into the league, the biggest concern about Cutler wasn't his athleticism or skill set, but the fact he felt compelled to single handedly win games at Vanderbilt and how that would translate into the NFL where forcing the ball is a recipe for disaster. I had said, at the time, that comparing him to Brett Favre (as many were) wasn't a compliment b/c Favre is the ultimate exception to the rule when it comes to aggressive quarterbacking. Yet, over time Cutler has won me over a bit. He's more talented than I realized.
Meanwhile Orton was the ultimate game manager who didn't appear to have the requisite skills to be an elite QB. I'm not sure we can say otherwise yet, but even his most ardent dissenters have to admit he's done more than dink and dunk this year. He's played well.
expedition as we all know. BUT, the truth is Orton is playing much better than many expected, myself included. Meanwhile Cutler is having his moments, but is also succumbing to the pitfalls of being a gunslinger. Coming into the league, the biggest concern about Cutler wasn't his athleticism or skill set, but the fact he felt compelled to single handedly win games at Vanderbilt and how that would translate into the NFL where forcing the ball is a recipe for disaster. I had said, at the time, that comparing him to Brett Favre (as many were) wasn't a compliment b/c Favre is the ultimate exception to the rule when it comes to aggressive quarterbacking. Yet, over time Cutler has won me over a bit. He's more talented than I realized.Meanwhile Orton was the ultimate game manager who didn't appear to have the requisite skills to be an elite QB. I'm not sure we can say otherwise yet, but even his most ardent dissenters have to admit he's done more than dink and dunk this year. He's played well.
PatsFanCT
Footballguy
[hermedwards] YOU play to win the game [/hermedwards]
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
In career games started, here are their records:
Orton 27-13 = 67%
Cutler 20-23 = 46%
Orton is also 6-0 with mostly the same team Cutler took to 8-8 last year.
Orton seems like a no brainer to me. Many people will fall into the trap of loving Cutler's arm and all the draft hype he got from Mel Kiper, but Orton's decision making is far and away better. One might say Orton had better defenses, but consider that maybe he just keeps them off the field with better game management and lack of INTs. CHI D was never bad until Cutler got there. DEN D was never good until Orton got there.
I see Cutler as a white Jason Campbell.
Orton 27-13 = 67%
Cutler 20-23 = 46%
Orton is also 6-0 with mostly the same team Cutler took to 8-8 last year.
Orton seems like a no brainer to me. Many people will fall into the trap of loving Cutler's arm and all the draft hype he got from Mel Kiper, but Orton's decision making is far and away better. One might say Orton had better defenses, but consider that maybe he just keeps them off the field with better game management and lack of INTs. CHI D was never bad until Cutler got there. DEN D was never good until Orton got there.
I see Cutler as a white Jason Campbell.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Mostly the same team? Yeah, having healthy RBs and eight new starters on defense, not to mention a completely new coaching staff, has made no difference whatsoever for the Denver Broncos this year. 
Draft hype from Mel Kiper? Kiper has never been much of a fan of Cutler's at all. 
Overall, just at your entire post. Wanna take another crack at it?
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Buffaloes
Footballguy
Some more fodder for the fishing expedition:
Chicago Bears (6 games)
2008: Kyle Orton, 3-3, 1386 yds, 8 TDs, 4 INTs, 87.6 rating
2009: Jay Cutler, 3-3, 1451 yds, 11 TDs, 10 INTs, 86.0 rating
Denver Broncos (6 games)
2008: Jay Cutler, 4-2, 1694 yds, 12 TDs, 5 INTs, 94.8 rating
2009: Kyle Orton, 6-0, 1465 yds, 9 TDs, 1 INT, 100.1 rating
Red Zone Efficiency (last 2 years)
Kyle Orton: 20 TDs, 1 Int
Jay Cutler: 24 TDs, 7 Ints
Chicago Bears (6 games)
2008: Kyle Orton, 3-3, 1386 yds, 8 TDs, 4 INTs, 87.6 rating
2009: Jay Cutler, 3-3, 1451 yds, 11 TDs, 10 INTs, 86.0 rating
Denver Broncos (6 games)
2008: Jay Cutler, 4-2, 1694 yds, 12 TDs, 5 INTs, 94.8 rating
2009: Kyle Orton, 6-0, 1465 yds, 9 TDs, 1 INT, 100.1 rating
Red Zone Efficiency (last 2 years)
Kyle Orton: 20 TDs, 1 Int
Jay Cutler: 24 TDs, 7 Ints
LHUCKS
Footballguy
How about we turn down the tool factor here...big guy.Mostly the same team? Yeah, having healthy RBs and eight new starters on defense, not to mention a completely new coaching staff, has made no difference whatsoever for the Denver Broncos this year. :( Draft hype from Mel Kiper? Kiper has never been much of a fan of Cutler's at all.
Overall, just
whitem0nkey
Footballguy
correctionthe bears were 27-13 with Orton playing.the Bronco's were 20-23 with Cutler playing.win and loss records are used to evaluate a whole team not one out of 52 guys.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Yeah, screw the rest, what more do you need than this?Orton 27-13 = 67%Cutler 20-23 = 46%Are you telling me you'd rather have pretty QB than an effective one? Congratulations. You too could be Dan Snyder and Al Davis.
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
I'd rather have the QB that I felt gives my team a non-zero chance of winning a SB. Cutler's chances = slim. Orton's chances = zero.Neither guy would be someone I'd choose to lead my team, but forced to choose, I'd take Cutler and ride the variance.Yeah, screw the rest, what more do you need than this?Orton 27-13 = 67%Cutler 20-23 = 46%Are you telling me you'd rather have pretty QB than an effective one? Congratulations. You too could be Dan Snyder and Al Davis.Mostly the same team? Yeah, having healthy RBs and eight new starters on defense, not to mention a completely new coaching staff, has made no difference whatsoever for the Denver Broncos this year.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Oh, so winning percentage is all that matters, eh? Could you be more short-sighted? How is this: Kyle Orton 27-13 = .675%Rex Grossman 19-12 = .613%Drew Brees 61-51 = .545% Looks like Orton and Grossman are better than Brees, right? I mean, screw the rest...winning percentage is all you need, right? Feel free to backtrack now.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
Where would Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien and Brad Johnson fall on this scale?
moleculo
Footballguy
please don't insult Jake like that.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
I fail to see how you win a SB if you can't even make the playoffs. Cutler's chances of even making the playoffs, much like in previous years, are slim, seeing as he's never even had a winning record.Orton as a starter took CHI to 11-4, then got benched ( IIRC) in the playoffs. The result with a different QB in the playoffs - a loss. Orton will take DEN to the playoffs this year as well.Look, I'm not saying Orton is a top 10 QB in this league. But I am saying Cutler is way overrated, maybe not top 20. Somebody please show me another QB that has never had a winning record 4 years into his career that so many people are infatuated with.I'd rather have the QB that I felt gives my team a non-zero chance of winning a SB. Cutler's chances = slim. Orton's chances = zero.Neither guy would be someone I'd choose to lead my team, but forced to choose, I'd take Cutler and ride the variance.Yeah, screw the rest, what more do you need than this?Orton 27-13 = 67%Cutler 20-23 = 46%Are you telling me you'd rather have pretty QB than an effective one? Congratulations. You too could be Dan Snyder and Al Davis.Mostly the same team? Yeah, having healthy RBs and eight new starters on defense, not to mention a completely new coaching staff, has made no difference whatsoever for the Denver Broncos this year.
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meanjoegreen
Footballguy
Cutler has more offensive weapons than Orton had when he was a Bear with the addition of Johnny Knox.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
How did Orton look at this point last year? Pretty decent, no?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Through six games last year, the Bears were the same record as this year: 3-3. Through six games last year, the Bears defense had allowed 109 points. Through six games this year, the Bears defense has allowed 144 points. Through six games last year, Matt Forte had rushed for 459 yards. Through six games this year, Matt Forte has rushed for 318 yards.
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