Who is this season's MVP? (1 Viewer)

[bobspruill]

If it goes to a defensive player it'll probably be Urlacher, but I'd like to toss Strahan into the mix as well.

 

[Gargoylez]

well I guess WHO deserves it?IMO Tom Brady. He kept that team in check while it was devastated by injuries and now that they are getting healthy, Brady's warm up is over, its crunch time.I am no Brady fan, I actually don't like him much, but the guy is one of the top if NOT the top QB in the league today and what he did for the patriots.... its unmatched in the NFL this year.

 

[Gr00vus]

The fact that SD had no other players worth signing long term and to big contracts at the time they did LT does not mean anything in the scheme of what is going on in Sea. The situations are and have been vastly different the entire time. The fact is, SD used to suck and had no other players worth signing other than LT. Their supply of worthy candidates to sign long term was MINIMAL at best. Sea has no such problems and that doesn't even consider the severl lack of availablity of stud Tackles in FA or QBs you know play well within your system. Let me ask you this: Do you think Sea gives LT the contract in Sea that they have been holding out on giving SA? I say no. Again this boils down to SUPPLY and DEMAND. FA has changed things and RBs are seeing that more than any other position.

You don't seem to be aware of when LaDainian signed his long term contract. It was in the middle of the season last year. The Chargers had plenty of other people they had signed/needed to sign at that point - and have done so for the most part. Further, your reasoning above actually weakens your position as in it you acknowledge that Seattle managment has made signing players other than Alexander a priority over signing Alexander - clearly indicating those other players mean more to the Seattle management and team than Alexander.It's real simple Jurb, Alexander is definitely one of the or THE FF MVP, no question. But in the actual NFL Seattle wins their division, goes to the playoffs, and probably does o.k. without him - while New England does not sniff the playoffs without Brady. That's my criteria for NFL MVP - meaning the most to your team's actual NFL chances of winning and losing, so that makes Brady the MVP in my book (using a similar comparison for the other candidates - yes even Steve Smith).

 

[jurb26]

You don't seem to be aware of when LaDainian signed his long term contract. It was in the middle of the season last year. The Chargers had plenty of other people they had signed/needed to sign at that point - and have done so for the most part.

What players could SD hvae signed that were of the same quality as that of W.Jones? BTW, no, LT didn't sign midway through last year it was August of 04, before the season and after SD was coming off a steller 4-12 season. Link

 

[Gr00vus]

You don't seem to be aware of when LaDainian signed his long term contract. It was in the middle of the season last year. The Chargers had plenty of other people they had signed/needed to sign at that point - and have done so for the most part.

What players could SD hvae signed that were of the same quality as that of W.Jones?

I hear Antonio Gates is pretty good - maybe the best at his position. Would he count?So if W.Jones is more important to his team than Alexander, evidenced by him getting a contract and Alexander not - how can that possibly strengthen your argument as that would mean Alexander isn't even the MVP of his team, much less the league.

 

[SSOG]

I'm not talking about scrambling away from the pass rush to make plays, I'm talking about maintaining and moving within the pocket. And I don't know what games you're watching, but Manning's pocket presence is horrible. His feet jiggle like a tap dancer's and as soon as the pressure is on he panics. As for Brady, he has a flawless dropback motion and an incredible ability make slight scoots left/right/forward/backward depending on how the pocket in collapsing. His ability to dropback the correct distance and scoot when needed almost always leaves his lineman in position to take care of the pass rushers.

All of that may sound simple, but it's not. So many quarterbacks dropback way too far and speed rushers like Freeney and Rice just blow past the tackles. Many quarterbacks also freak out when they sense pressure, rather than adjusting as Brady does. IMO, it's not arm strength, vision, or moxy that makes Brady successful, it's his mechanics.

That said, I agree that his line is solid, even with 3rd stringers. I just happen to think his pocket presence contributes to their protection much more than most realize.

And back to the topic, Palmer deserves it.

I'm not talking about scrambling ability, either. I'm talking about the ability to make plays in the face of pressure. Manning leads the NFL in passer rating against the blitz. I'm talking about the ability to buy time when your pass protection absolutely breaks down. Plummer's one of the least-sacked QBs in the league over the past 3 seasons despite playing behind a mediocre pass-blocking line (they gave up almost 50 sacks back when Griese was the starter). In fact, there's a strong chance that these past two seasons will be the two lowest sack totals allowed in the history of the Broncos. I'm talking about the ability to know JUST when you're about to get hit, and to deliver the ball. Brett Favre is another of the least sacked QBs, despite playing behind one of the bottom-5 offensive lines in football (although his INT total is a direct result of him refusing to throw it away).Don't get me wrong, Brady has very nice mobility inside the pocket, but I've watched games where I counted to six before Brady had to so much as shift to the side to avoid a rusher.

Who cares what Manning does with his feet when he drops back to pass? He delivers the ball seconds before he gets hit every time. And as for when the pressure is on... if by "panics" you mean "has the best passer rating in the entire NFL against the blitz", then I agree 100%. When he's about to get sacked he absolutely panics and throws the ball to the open receiver for a big gain. He should have steel cajones and just take the sack rather than making the play. What horrible pocket presence.

There is a very short list of things you can criticise about Manning, (1- scrambling ability. 2- ummm...), and pocket presence isn't on that list.

What players could SD hvae signed that were of the same quality as that of W.Jones?

Yes, yes, that Walter Jones guy is phenominal. You have yet to address why Seattle tied up Hasselback to a long-term deal, but not Alexander.

 

[jurb26]

You don't seem to be aware of when LaDainian signed his long term contract. It was in the middle of the season last year. The Chargers had plenty of other people they had signed/needed to sign at that point - and have done so for the most part.

What players could SD hvae signed that were of the same quality as that of W.Jones?

I hear Antonio Gates is pretty good - maybe the best at his position. Would he count?So if W.Jones is more important to his team than Alexander, evidenced by him getting a contract and Alexander not - how can that possibly strengthen your argument as that would mean Alexander isn't even the MVP of his team, much less the league.

W.Jones does not work alone. I'll tell you what if they decide to change the award to MVU (most valuable unit) then, yes I can see why Jones and the Sea Oline would be the winners. Olinemen are only as good as the guy next to them and nearly impossible to judge mearurably for the context of MVP voting. Tell me again how many Olinemen have won this award before? As good and rare as Jones' skill sets are, that does not relieve him magically of the fact that he is still only one piece of a 5 man unit. Granted the most important piece. As I have said once already, this movement you guys have started for an Olinemen is a great feel good story. It is completely unrealistic though. I'm sure Jones will be voted MVP of his team yet again but that still does not change the fact that the most tangible factor we and the rest of the world can see for his and the Sea units efforts is that of what SA is doing. There is also no verifiable way that you can say any other RBs would be doing the same thing. Yes, you can assume all you want, but no one else is actually doing it. It is comical to hear some of the soft comments being thrown around in this thread regarding SA. Those things were said years ago, not this year. SA has been sighted as greatly improving his pass blocking and grinding out tough yards this season. He has not failed a single short yardage conversion all season. Are every one of those going to the left side? No, they are not. Are all 27 of his TDs coming from behind Jones and Hutch? Again, no. Were the majority of them? Yes, probably so. SA is havning probably the best season we have ever seen from a RB and he is doing it on a SB contending team. He should and most likely will be the MVP this year.

 

[jurb26]

You don't seem to be aware of when LaDainian signed his long term contract. It was in the middle of the season last year. The Chargers had plenty of other people they had signed/needed to sign at that point - and have done so for the most part.

What players could SD hvae signed that were of the same quality as that of W.Jones?

I hear Antonio Gates is pretty good - maybe the best at his position. Would he count?

Again, I sight for you the TIMING of when LT signed his contract. I provided the link for you. It was before Gates became "Gates." Either way, no Gates does not compare very well to a stud tackle. Again, supply and demand. Scaricity earns guys like Jones the big bucks, not talent alone.

 

[Gr00vus]

Who cares what Manning does with his feet when he drops back to pass? He delivers the ball seconds before he gets hit every time.There is a very short list of things you can criticise about Manning, (1- scrambling ability. 2- ummm...), and pocket presence isn't on that list.

He's the best I've seen at that since Marino, who may have been the best. Marino couldn't move at all, but he hardly ever got sacked.

 

[Gr00vus]

W.Jones does not work alone.

Neither does Alexander. And according to the team Jones individually is more important to them than Alexander - they didn't distribute Jonse's contract over the whole offensive line, they only paid it to Jones. They also haven't given a contract to Alexander. To the Seahawks Jones is MVP moreso than just about anyone else on the team except Hasselbeck. You've not made any point here to support your Alexander MVP claim.

 

[Gr00vus]

Again, I sight for you the TIMING of when LT signed his contract. I provided the link for you. It was before Gates became "Gates." Either way, no Gates does not compare very well to a stud tackle. Again, supply and demand. Scaricity earns guys like Jones the big bucks, not talent alone.

Debatable - they knew what they had in Gates pretty early on the previous season. Regardless they knew at the point the signed LaDainian that they had other resposibilities to take care of INCLUDING Gates. They also signed Jamal Williams to a deal around that time too.Alexander not even having a contract at this point while the Seahawks are commiting to other players can't just be wished away Jurb, no matter how much you'd like to.

I think you're too caught up in FF perspective to think rationally on this one.

 

[jurb26]

Yes, yes, that Walter Jones guy is phenominal. You have yet to address why Seattle tied up Hasselback to a long-term deal, but not Alexander.

Yes I did. QBs ned time and chemistry in any system. RBs not nearly as much. There is a reason rookie RBs can make immediate impacts while rookie QBs typically struggle. Even taking Payton Manning or Tom Brady and throwing him into a new O would cause some relapse. Like I said earlier, the FA era has hurt one position FAR more than any other and it's RB. RB talents are by far the most transferable of all on the footballfield IMO and in the opinion of GMs and coaches. Not to mention the life spans are the shortest and most volitile. Signing RBs long term is flat out risky in comparision to that of other positions. It only makes common sense to hold out from doing so as a GM if you can.

 

[Gr00vus]

Yes, yes, that Walter Jones guy is phenominal. You have yet to address why Seattle tied up Hasselback to a long-term deal, but not Alexander.

RBs not nearly as much. There is a reason rookie RBs can make immediate impacts while rookie ... RB talents are by far the most transferable of all on the footballfield IMO and in the opinion of GMs and coaches.

So that would be yet another element that makes a running back less valuable right? They're much easier to replace - less scarce in your words.

 

[jurb26]

I think you're too caught up in FF perspective to think rationally on this one.

Please, stats win these awards just as much as winning games do. Again, list for me the Olinement that have won it. How about this stat for you: SA has not lost or even funbled the ball once all year. Not even one fumble all year long with all those touches, yds and TDs. You don't think that goes a long way towards helping his team win. Plan and simply SA has had as near perfect a season as anyone could expect. It's comical how some previously bad PR has jaded the minds and eyes of so many people that they cannot simply sit back and recognize it for what it is.

 

[SSOG]

Yes, yes, that Walter Jones guy is phenominal. You have yet to address why Seattle tied up Hasselback to a long-term deal, but not Alexander.

Yes I did. QBs ned time and chemistry in any system. RBs not nearly as much. There is a reason rookie RBs can make immediate impacts while rookie QBs typically struggle. Even taking Payton Manning or Tom Brady and throwing him into a new O would cause some relapse. Like I said earlier, the FA era has hurt one position FAR more than any other and it's RB. RB talents are by far the most transferable of all on the footballfield IMO and in the opinion of GMs and coaches. Not to mention the life spans are the shortest and most volitile. Signing RBs long term is flat out risky in comparision to that of other positions. It only makes common sense to hold out from doing so as a GM if you can.

Oh? The FA era has hurt RBs? Tell that to Clinton Portis, who just recently signed an NFL record RB contract, or to LT2, who weeks later broke that record.Just because LAST SEASON was a bad season for RBs getting contracts doesn't mean that it's a bad time for RBs to get contracts. I guarantee you that if LT2 were to hit the open market, teams wouldn't have any trouble signing him.

 

[Gr00vus]

Please, stats win these awards jsut as much as winning games do. Again, llist for me the Olinement that have won it. How about htis stat for you: SA has not lost or een funbled the ball once all year. Not even one fumble all year long with all those touches, yds and TDs. You don't think that goes a long way towards helping his team win. Plan and simply SA has had as near perfect a season as anyone could expect. It's comical how some previously bad PR has jaded the minds and eyes of so many people that they cannot simply sit back and recognize it for what it is.

Like I said, he has had a nice statistical season. We're talking about MVP - and in that regard I'm talking about where would Seattle be without him compared to where would New England be without Brady. Seatlle wins their division, goes to the playoffs probably does o.k, while New England doesn't come close to the playoffs. Put it another way, swap Dillon for Alexander and Seattle does just fine. Swap Brady for Hasselbeck and I don't think New England goes to the playoffs. Brady is easily MVP over Alexander, easily.

 

[SSOG]

How about this stat for you: SA has not lost or even funbled the ball once all year. Not even one fumble all year long with all those touches, yds and TDs.

How about this stat for you: That stat you presented is false. Here is Shaun Alexander's player page at NFL.com. See the section labeled "fumbles"? See the line labeled "2005", and the number "4" under the heading "fum"?

 

[jurb26]

Yes, yes, that Walter Jones guy is phenominal. You have yet to address why Seattle tied up Hasselback to a long-term deal, but not Alexander.

RBs not nearly as much. There is a reason rookie RBs can make immediate impacts while rookie ... RB talents are by far the most transferable of all on the footballfield IMO and in the opinion of GMs and coaches.

So that would be yet another element that makes a running back less valuable right? They're much easier to replace - less scarce in your words.

If you want to talk about scarce. How many RBs in the history of the NFL have run for over 1800 yds and set the NFL single season TD record all while being on a team that has clinched home field throughout the playoffs? The answer, 1 SA. Now that is scarce. Yoiu can hypothosize all you want about how other RBs could have done it, but could haves don't win MVP awards. Only the ones who do. Maybe your both right and that any other RB in the NFL could produce the same or at least similar numbers and team success as to what SA has done this year. Well, then let's ask ourselves why has the NFL been around for near 80 years and these stars only aligned once?

 

[jurb26]

How about this stat for you: SA has not lost or even funbled the ball once all year. Not even one fumble all year long with all those touches, yds and TDs.

How about this stat for you: That stat you presented is false. Here is Shaun Alexander's player page at NFL.com. See the section labeled "fumbles"? See the line labeled "2005", and the number "4" under the heading "fum"?

Correct was just about to update that. Misread the lost.

 

[Gr00vus]

Maybe your both right and that any other RB in the NFL could produce the same or at least similar numbers and team success as to what SA has done this year.

In considering MVP I don't really care if someone else could have produced the same numbers, remotely similar is good enough. What did it mean to the team? Not as much as what other guys meant to theirs, plain and simple. The definition of MVP being who meant the most to their team Alexander doesn't belong real near the top of the list this season - number be damned.

 

[jurb26]

Just because LAST SEASON was a bad season for RBs getting contracts doesn't mean that it's a bad time for RBs to get contracts. I guarantee you that if LT2 were to hit the open market, teams wouldn't have any trouble signing him.

This depends on what he would expect to get. So there is no way you can possibly guarantee this.

 

[valhallan]

I'm not talking about scrambling away from the pass rush to make plays, I'm talking about maintaining and moving within the pocket.  And I don't know what games you're watching, but Manning's pocket presence is horrible.  His feet jiggle like a tap dancer's and as soon as the pressure is on he panics.  As for Brady, he has a flawless dropback motion and an incredible ability make slight scoots left/right/forward/backward depending on how the pocket in collapsing.  His ability to dropback the correct distance and scoot when needed almost always leaves his lineman in position to take care of the pass rushers.

All of that may sound simple, but it's not.  So many quarterbacks dropback way too far and speed rushers like Freeney and Rice just blow past the tackles.  Many quarterbacks also freak out when they sense pressure, rather than adjusting as Brady does.  IMO, it's not arm strength, vision, or moxy that makes Brady successful, it's his mechanics.

That said, I agree that his line is solid, even with 3rd stringers.  I just happen to think his pocket presence contributes to their protection much more than most realize.

And back to the topic, Palmer deserves it.

I'm not talking about scrambling ability, either. I'm talking about the ability to make plays in the face of pressure. Manning leads the NFL in passer rating against the blitz. I'm talking about the ability to buy time when your pass protection absolutely breaks down. Plummer's one of the least-sacked QBs in the league over the past 3 seasons despite playing behind a mediocre pass-blocking line (they gave up almost 50 sacks back when Griese was the starter). In fact, there's a strong chance that these past two seasons will be the two lowest sack totals allowed in the history of the Broncos. I'm talking about the ability to know JUST when you're about to get hit, and to deliver the ball. Brett Favre is another of the least sacked QBs, despite playing behind one of the bottom-5 offensive lines in football (although his INT total is a direct result of him refusing to throw it away).Don't get me wrong, Brady has very nice mobility inside the pocket, but I've watched games where I counted to six before Brady had to so much as shift to the side to avoid a rusher.

Who cares what Manning does with his feet when he drops back to pass? He delivers the ball seconds before he gets hit every time. And as for when the pressure is on... if by "panics" you mean "has the best passer rating in the entire NFL against the blitz", then I agree 100%. When he's about to get sacked he absolutely panics and throws the ball to the open receiver for a big gain. He should have steel cajones and just take the sack rather than making the play. What horrible pocket presence.

There is a very short list of things you can criticise about Manning, (1- scrambling ability. 2- ummm...), and pocket presence isn't on that list.

What players could SD hvae signed that were of the same quality as that of W.Jones?

Yes, yes, that Walter Jones guy is phenominal. You have yet to address why Seattle tied up Hasselback to a long-term deal, but not Alexander.

So you ARE talking about stats, just as I suggested and you denied earlier.All I'm suggesting is what I see, and Brady has proved his mettle far beyond Manning in every sense possible... to me.

To each his own, and I'm not interested in starting another Manning/Brady thread. You ride your horse, I'll ride mine.

Best wishes to your Broncs in the playoffs.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Again, I sight for you the TIMING of when LT signed his contract. I provided the link for you. It was before Gates became "Gates."

The Chargers are cheap. They're not going to give someone a ton of money just because they don't have anyone else to give it to. They made LT the highest-paid RB in the league because they consider him the best RB in the league. (Also, they had plenty of people to pay. Jamal Williams, Donnie Edwards, Steve Foley, Antonio Gates, Drew Brees . . . is Quentin Jammer's contract up soon?)

 

[jwvdcw]

Did I forget anyone?

No, and you added a few that are either weak jokes or lame options. And thanks for not having an "other" choice I vote other.

Who is your other? I put atleast 10 seconds of deep thought into the choices...

Not saying that they should be MVPs, but guys like S Moss, W Jones, Vasher, etc. belong on the list more than some who made it.

 

[crazyhorse]

Did I forget anyone?

Edgerrin James