WHO says women of childbearing age should be BANNED from drinking alcohol (1 Viewer)

[Max Power]

Women of childbearing age should be banned from drinking alcohol, says the World Health Organisation.

Its latest Global Alcohol Action Plan calls on countries to raise awareness of alcohol-related harm and its harmful use.

A first draft of the plan says 'appropriate attention' should be given to the prevention of drinking in children, pregnant women and women of childbearing age.

Last night the drinks industry described the proposal as paternalistic and sexist.

The draft guidance warns that booze is associated increased disease, poor mental health, violence, lost productivity and strained relationships.

And it adds: 'One of the most dramatic manifestations of harm to persons other than drinkers is pre-natal alcohol exposure and the development of foetal alcohol spectrum disorders.'

Symptoms in children exposed to alcohol in the womb can include poor growth, distinct facial features and learning and behavioural problems. The plan suggests such harms could be publicised through an international 'world no alcohol day/week'.

It says: 'Appropriate attention should be given to prevention of the initiation of drinking among children and adolescents, prevention of drinking among pregnant women and women of childbearing age, and protection of people from pressures to drink.'

The UK's Chief Medical Officers say the 'safest approach' for women who are pregnant or trying to become pregnant is not to drink alcohol at all.

However, Matt Lambert, of UK alcohol trade body the Portman Group, said it was 'extremely concerned, by the WHO's proposal.

He added: 'As well as being sexist and paternalistic, and potentially restricting the freedoms of most women, it goes well beyond their remit and is not rooted in science.'

The NHS website says experts are still unsure exactly how much - if any - alcohol is completely safe for pregnant women to drink.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9694943/Women-childbearing-age-BANNED-drinking-alcohol-says.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline#comments

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I dunno.  They did so well with the pandemic, maybe we should hear them out.

 

[Max Power]

I thought this was an interesting topic after the recent elevation of the WHO's opinion on health related matters.

Previously we've always informed people of the facts, provided warnings and let them make their own informed decisions. I think we're moving away from that into an age where people are pressured to make the best health decision for the community as a whole.

I feel like this still falls in the my body my choice realm.

 

[whoknew]

Headline writers should all be fired. That's not exactly what they said. At least not from the article. The relevant section - 

It says: 'Appropriate attention should be given to prevention of the initiation of drinking among children and adolescents, prevention of drinking among pregnant women and women of childbearing age, and protection of people from pressures to drink.'

The UK's Chief Medical Officers say the 'safest approach' for women who are pregnant or trying to become pregnant is not to drink alcohol at all.

--

The headline implies that WHO thinks governments should ban women from drinking. That's not really what that section says.

 

[the moops]

Daily Mail sure does like to be loose with the words they use. BANNED!!

It seems the WHO is offering guidance for what is best for the fetus. Its latest Global Alcohol Action Plan calls on countries to raise awareness of alcohol-related harm and its harmful use. They have no authority to ban anything anyway

 

[Amused to Death]

I'm having a hard time finding where they want to ban it. I'd like to see their text and not the Daily Mail's.  

The WHO guidance, released in the body's Global Alcohol Action Plan, calls on countries to raise awareness of alcohol-related harm and its harmful use.

It said that 'one of the most dramatic manifestations of harm' is to babies, and the development of foetal alcohol disorders.

Symptoms in children exposed to alcohol in the womb can include poor growth, distinct facial features and learning and behavioural problems.

The plan suggests such harms could be publicised through an international 'world no alcohol day/week'.

 

[Max Power]

Headline writers should all be fired. That's not exactly what they said. At least not from the article. The relevant section - 

It says: 'Appropriate attention should be given to prevention of the initiation of drinking among children and adolescents, prevention of drinking among pregnant women and women of childbearing age, and protection of people from pressures to drink.'

The UK's Chief Medical Officers say the 'safest approach' for women who are pregnant or trying to become pregnant is not to drink alcohol at all.

--

The headline implies that WHO thinks governments should ban women from drinking. That's not really what that section says.

It is a bit sensational, but they stated their facts right above that... do you think it's time to consider laws that make drinking while pregnant a crime?

The draft guidance warns that booze is associated increased disease, poor mental health, violence, lost productivity and strained relationships.

And it adds: 'One of the most dramatic manifestations of harm to persons other than drinkers is pre-natal alcohol exposure and the development of foetal alcohol spectrum disorders.'

Symptoms in children exposed to alcohol in the womb can include poor growth, distinct facial features and learning and behavioural problems. 

 

[whoknew]

It is a bit sensational, but they stated their facts right above that... do you think it's time to consider laws that make drinking while pregnant a crime?

The draft guidance warns that booze is associated increased disease, poor mental health, violence, lost productivity and strained relationships.

And it adds: 'One of the most dramatic manifestations of harm to persons other than drinkers is pre-natal alcohol exposure and the development of foetal alcohol spectrum disorders.'

Symptoms in children exposed to alcohol in the womb can include poor growth, distinct facial features and learning and behavioural problems. 

No. We should certainly continue to educate. And if a baby is born with fetal alcohol symptoms or damage or whatever - I reckon the mother should be charged with some form of child abuse.

But I don't think having an occasional glass of wine is a big deal.

ETA: I'm not a doctor. So if studies came out that disagree with what I just wrote, I defer to those.

 

[Amused to Death]

Here's the actual report without the sensational headlines or rhetoric. It should also be noted this a DRAFT and not the final report.

 

[Max Power]

Here's the actual report without the sensational headlines or rhetoric. It should also be noted this a DRAFT and not the final report.

I'm going to read this over, but I'll post their overview. In their opening they claim the world is drinking too much and we need to dial it back. So is time we do something about it?

Overview

The harmful use of alcohol causes approximately 3 million deaths every year and the overall burden of disease and injuries attributable to alcohol consumption remains unacceptably high. The pace of development and implementation of alcohol policies has been uneven in WHO regions, and resources and capacities for implementation of the WHO Global strategy to reduce the harmful use of alcohol 10 years after its endorsement do not correspond to the magnitude of the problems. On this basis, the WHO Executive Board in its decision EB146 (14) called for accelerated action to reduce the harmful use of alcohol.

 

[parasaurolophus]

isnt this the logical flow through?

i mean the argument is easy to make after covid. you were forced to take precautions because you could have covid and unknowingly transmit. Women could be pregnant and not know it.

Maybe bars should just require rapid tests. Or perhaps proof of birth control usage?

We cant take their word for it and trust them because then all the pregnant women would just lie.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

How will all these women of childbearing age get pregnant without alcohol?!?!

(I’m from Wisconsin.......maybe my experience is an outlier)

 

[Sinn Fein]

It is a bit sensational, but they stated their facts right above that... do you think it's time to consider laws that make drinking while pregnant a crime?

I'd like to hear the Pro-Life people chime in on this - drinking alcohol has the potential to cause harm to the fetus.

 

[Terminalxylem]

How will all these women of childbearing age get pregnant without alcohol?!?!

(I’m from Wisconsin.......maybe my experience is an outlier)

Beat me to it.

But to be fair, it's hard to exist in the midwest without alcohol.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

It is a bit sensational, 

If you already knew that the article was misrepresenting what the WHO said, maybe you shouldn’t have used the same misleading headline for the thread.

 

[Max Power]

I'd like to hear the Pro-Life people chime in on this - drinking alcohol has the potential to cause harm to the fetus.

I'd like to see the science behind it, but I'd be ok regulating drinking while pregnant similar to drinking and driving. 

 

[Max Power]

If you already knew that the article was misrepresenting what the WHO said, maybe you shouldn’t have used the same misleading headline for the thread.

I learned from the MSM. This is how you get clicks

 

[JAA]

I feel like this still falls in the my body my choice realm.

This - across the board

 

[Stealthycat]

The draft guidance warns that booze is associated increased disease, poor mental health, violence, lost productivity and strained relationships.

And it adds: 'One of the most dramatic manifestations of harm to persons other than drinkers is pre-natal alcohol exposure and the development of foetal alcohol spectrum disorders.'

three things come to mind

#1 there are no more "women" or "females" ... everyone chooses what they want to be

#2 booze increases disease, poor mental health, violence and lost productivity and strains relationships in everyone

#3 "pre-natal alcohol exposure and the development of foetal alcohol spectrum" ............ since people don't believe the unborn are alive, alcohol can't really do any of that to something not living so that's kind of a no brainer

ironically WHO supports abortions

 

[the moops]

three things come to mind

#1 there are no more "women" or "females" ... everyone chooses what they want to be

#2 booze increases disease, poor mental health, violence and lost productivity and strains relationships in everyone

#3 "pre-natal alcohol exposure and the development of foetal alcohol spectrum" ............ since people don't believe the unborn are alive, alcohol can't really do any of that to something not living so that's kind of a no brainer

You should have just posted #2. The other two are nonsense.

 

[Stealthycat]

You should have just posted #2. The other two are nonsense.

#1 is very real 

#3 is also very real - logically if alcohol can effect an unborn, then that unborn is alive and living and impacted by that consumption and thus abortion is killing a living unborn

but lets not dive into that, nobody wants to agree with abortion AND recognize what it really is .... too disgusting right ?

just ironic that WHO supports abortion AND rejects alcohol that could harm an unborn child .... crazy huh ?

 

[Amused to Death]

#1 is very real 

#3 is also very real - logically if alcohol can effect an unborn, then that unborn is alive and living and impacted by that consumption and thus abortion is killing a living unborn

but lets not dive into that, nobody wants to agree with abortion AND recognize what it really is .... too disgusting right ?

just ironic that WHO supports abortion AND rejects alcohol that could harm an unborn child .... crazy huh ?

Our laws are very inconsistent w/r/t considering an unborn fetus as a person as well. 

 

[Max Power]

Are we at least all in agreement that we should create laws that will force Americans to drink less?

Its science and if we can save just one life, it's worth it.

 

[Osaurus]

There’s really a “drinks industry”? Do they identify as that?

 

[moleculo]

#1 is very real 

#3 is also very real - logically if alcohol can effect an unborn, then that unborn is alive and living and impacted by that consumption and thus abortion is killing a living unborn

but lets not dive into that, nobody wants to agree with abortion AND recognize what it really is .... too disgusting right ?

just ironic that WHO supports abortion AND rejects alcohol that could harm an unborn child .... crazy huh ?

literally no one thinks the unborn are not alive.  So silly.

 

[moleculo]

Are we at least all in agreement that we should create laws that will force Americans to drink less?

Its science and if we can save just one life, it's worth it.

I think we already tried that.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Are we at least all in agreement that we should create laws that will force Americans to drink less?

Its science and if we can save just one life, it's worth it.

I’m on board with taxing booze more highly.

 

[Max Power]

I’m on board with taxing booze more highly.

Sin taxes disproportionately effect the poor, so that idea won't be a winner. 

 

[jon_mx]

This flies in the face of the 'it's her body' argument.   They are acknowledging there is some other being involved in this equation.  

 

[jon_mx]

Our laws are very inconsistent w/r/t considering an unborn fetus as a person as well. 

Not from the mom's perspective.  The law acknowledges an unborn fetus as a separate being if the expecting mother is attacked by a third party.  If it's the mom, we are told it is her body and that it is just a clump of cells.  

 

[squistion]

There’s really a “drinks industry”? Do they identify as that?

The liquor industry (and their lobbying efforts) has been a powerful force in this country since the 30s where they were behind successful efforts to make marijuana illegal and helped finance such films as Refer Madness. 

 

[supermike80]

Are we at least all in agreement that we should create laws that will force Americans to drink less?

Its science and if we can save just one life, it's worth it.

I just finished watching Ken Burns's 3 part on prohibition. It was pretty darn good..like most of his docs are.

 

[Stealthycat]

literally no one thinks the unborn are not alive.  So silly.

so you think pro-abortion people agree with allowing unborn living babies to be killed? fascinating 

 

[Stealthycat]

Our laws are very inconsistent w/r/t considering an unborn fetus as a person as well. 

100% true

"its a living human baby, treat it with medication in the womb ! "

"its a living human baby, prosecute anyone who hurts it !!"

"its a living human baby, no alcohol because it might harm it !!"

"its not a living human baby, its a mass of cells, not living and not a baby .... abortion should be legal" ( but only if the mother of the unborn wants to ) 

Hillary even supported partial birth remember ..... 

 

[Amused to Death]

Not from the mom's perspective.  The law acknowledges an unborn fetus as a separate being if the expecting mother is attacked by a third party.  If it's the mom, we are told it is her body and that it is just a clump of cells.  

And an unborn can not be claimed as a dependent on our taxes until after birth. We allow for unused fertilized eggs to be discarded without penalty. The father isn't required to pay child support until after birth. You can't collect life insurance on a miscarriage. We deport pregnant immigrants even though the unborn would be a US citizen. We don't count the unborn in our census.

So, lots of areas where we don't treat the unborn as a "person'.

 

[Max Power]

I just finished watching Ken Burns's 3 part on prohibition. It was pretty darn good..like most of his docs are.

I'll have to check that out. 

Prohibition didn't use science and that's why it failed. 

 

[moleculo]

so you think pro-abortion people agree with allowing unborn living babies to be killed? fascinating 

don't be ridiculous. 

 

[Osaurus]

The liquor industry (and their lobbying efforts) has been a powerful force in this country since the 30s where they were behind successful efforts to make marijuana illegal and helped finance such films as Refer Madness. 

Thanks for all the great info as I am already familiar with the liquor industry, but it stated “drinks industry”. Is that commonly what they call themselves?

 

[squistion]

Thanks for all the great info as I am already familiar with the liquor industry, but it stated “drinks industry”. Is that commonly what they call themselves?

One would assume that they are one and the same. Not much liquor consumed outside of drinks (a small percentage is used in cooking and some industrial uses). Perhaps the term is so as to include bartenders, other servers and maybe those in the distribution chain but if so, it is a clunky term.

 

[supermike80]

I'll have to check that out. 

Prohibition didn't use science and that's why it failed. 

It was quite good.  Interesting to learn about how the WCTU attempted to indoctrinate the youth into believing in the evils of alcohol

 

[Max Power]

It was quite good.  Interesting to learn about how the WCTU attempted to indoctrinate the youth into believing in the evils of alcohol

I feel like we're better at indoctrinating now. Let's get ready for #Prohibition2.0

 

[supermike80]

I feel like we're better at indoctrinating now. Let's get ready for #Prohibition2.0

I'm quite shocked and disappointed in myself I didn't know more about this part of our history.  

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Not from the mom's perspective.  The law acknowledges an unborn fetus as a separate being if the expecting mother is attacked by a third party.  If it's the mom, we are told it is her body and that it is just a clump of cells.  

Exactly as it should be.  Now I don't mean that in a morality sense, I mean that from a public policy perspective.  Ideally we would also be implementing policies that would make abortion less appealing the same way we would be implementing policies to make alcohol use less appealing.  (Or maybe in both cases rather than appealing, "less necessary").

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Thanks for all the great info as I am already familiar with the liquor industry, but it stated “drinks industry”. Is that commonly what they call themselves?

It's a British newspaper.  They use all sorts of bollocks expressions that don't translate well to American audiences.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I feel bad for the poor British people who google "football punters" and get redirected to stories about people placing bets on soccer.

 

[Osaurus]

It's a British newspaper.  They use all sorts of bollocks expressions that don't translate well to American audiences.

Yes. I’ve met some boozy brokers in my time that certainly qualify.

 

[Stealthycat]

don't be ridiculous. 

I'm confused

pro-abortion people KNOW unborn babies are little living humans but they also don't think they should be killed ?

what are you saying ?

 

[moleculo]

I'm confused

pro-abortion people KNOW unborn babies are little living humans but they also don't think they should be killed ?

what are you saying ?

I'm saying you are tossing out wild hyperbole and taking things to extremes.  

since people don't believe the unborn are alive

we can't have a conversation if this is the jumping off point.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Love the morphing of Pro-Choice to "Pro-Abortion".  

 

[Stealthycat]

Love the morphing of Pro-Choice to "Pro-Abortion".  

pro choice to have an abortion

better? 

is anti-abortion pro-life ?

anyways, its just ironic is all, an organization pro abortion that wants to discuss health issues of unborn's ....