Who will have the better season? D Williams or S Jackson (1 Viewer)

[itsme]

I've seen these two guys flip-flop a lot n recent rankings. They seem to be both be mid to late first round RBs and both have their question marks. Who do you think will have the better season and who would you rather anchor your team? Let's assume no-PPR and standard scoring.

 

[chuck'sliddell]

D Williams will be a top 3 RB in a standard scoring league..S Jackson will not play an entire season.

 

[ajopiela]

Well SJax is gana be hurt, so i'd say Deangelo.

 

[SSOG]

I voted SJax because he's the one that's proven that his stud-hood is independent of his offense. DeAngelo is far more likely to regress based on a regression in the offense around him, or a weakening of the offensive line, or he might simply have been playing over his head last year. SJax won't regress because things can't possibly get worse than they've been for the past two years.

 

[inzanitee]

SJax won't regress because things can't possibly get worse than they've been for the past two years.

Not so sure about that. You could make an argument that their WRs are the worst they've been in over a decade, and Bulger is already injured and seems to have little left in the tank. I think things could end up being worse than last year.

 

[MCguidance]

After Bulger went down it really has me thinking about DWilliams at the number 5 spot in my PPR if MJD, AD, Forte, and Brady/Brees is gone. The more I think about Sjax the less enamored I am with his situation. I never draft thinking a guy will be injured, but his situation is something I put a lot of stock in. Williams has a much better situation maybe even with Stewart healthy. If he isn't healthy, then maybe he's a top back again.

I think this is a good topic, but as of now I have them even. I was thinking Jackson is more talented, but watching highlights and all things considered, Williams is definitely right there. I guess the more I think about it the more I like Williams.

 

[SSOG]

SJax won't regress because things can't possibly get worse than they've been for the past two years.

Not so sure about that. You could make an argument that their WRs are the worst they've been in over a decade, and Bulger is already injured and seems to have little left in the tank. I think things could end up being worse than last year.

SJax has played without Bulger and produced before, and I'm more concerned with his offensive line than I am with his receivers (since I doubt teams could stuff the box more than they already were last year, no matter who is lining up at WR).

 

[Bayhawks]

I voted SJax because he's the one that's proven that his stud-hood is independent of his offense. DeAngelo is far more likely to regress based on a regression in the offense around him, or a weakening of the offensive line, or he might simply have been playing over his head last year. SJax won't regress because things can't possibly get worse than they've been for the past two years.

I was hesitant to post because we don't seem to be seeing eye to eye in the Jonathan Stewart thread, but I'm not sure I agree with the bolded statement above.Jackson's one stud season was 2006. Bulger was also a stud that year, finishing as QB3, with over 4300 yards. Holt was a top-10 WR, Bruce had over 1000 yards, and the Rams were the 10th ranked offense.

For the record, I voted Williams in the pole, b/c I feel that StL's team is still in shambles, and I worry about Jackson staying healthy.

 

[jurb26]

Williams pretty easily for me. The Stewart love around here has always been out of control. This year seems no different even in the face of Williams outplaying him in every aspect of the game last year. I'm actually beginning to think that Williams should be ranked higher than Peterson. My new top 3 may look like this: MJD, Williams, Peterson.

 

[SSOG]

I voted SJax because he's the one that's proven that his stud-hood is independent of his offense. DeAngelo is far more likely to regress based on a regression in the offense around him, or a weakening of the offensive line, or he might simply have been playing over his head last year. SJax won't regress because things can't possibly get worse than they've been for the past two years.

I was hesitant to post because we don't seem to be seeing eye to eye in the Jonathan Stewart thread, but I'm not sure I agree with the bolded statement above.Jackson's one stud season was 2006. Bulger was also a stud that year, finishing as QB3, with over 4300 yards. Holt was a top-10 WR, Bruce had over 1000 yards, and the Rams were the 10th ranked offense.

For the record, I voted Williams in the pole, b/c I feel that StL's team is still in shambles, and I worry about Jackson staying healthy.

Please don't hesitate to disagree with me. I think disagreement is a very healthy platform from which we all can get a better feel for a player's true value, and I promise I won't take it personally. Besides, everyone else already does it, anyway. Jackson's one HEALTHY season was 2006, but he's been a stud every year. For instance, I think we'll all agree that the entire Rams offense was BRUTAL last year... but Steven Jackson still finished the season 3rd in points per game (behind only DeAngelo and Turner), and he finished 2007 7th in ppg (behind Tomlinson, Westbrook, Peterson, Portis, Addai, and JamLew). You can question whether he'll remain healthy or not, but there's absolutely no question that if he's on the field, he's an absolute stud- good QB, bad QB, good o-line, bad o-line, good defense, bad defense, none of it matters. If he plays 16 games, he's as close to a lock for a top 3 finish as you'll ever find.

 

[SSOG]

Williams pretty easily for me. The Stewart love around here has always been out of control. This year seems no different even in the face of Williams outplaying him in every aspect of the game last year. I'm actually beginning to think that Williams should be ranked higher than Peterson. My new top 3 may look like this: MJD, Williams, Peterson.

Did Williams outplay Stewart last year? Absolutely. Did Williams outplay Stewart in every aspect of the game last year? Absolutely not. Stewart had a higher ypc and higher conversion rate on carries with 1-3 yards to go, had a higher ypc and conversion rate in the red zone, and had a higher conversion rate on 3rd down.

 

[jurb26]

Williams pretty easily for me. The Stewart love around here has always been out of control. This year seems no different even in the face of Williams outplaying him in every aspect of the game last year. I'm actually beginning to think that Williams should be ranked higher than Peterson. My new top 3 may look like this: MJD, Williams, Peterson.

Did Williams outplay Stewart last year? Absolutely. Did Williams outplay Stewart in every aspect of the game last year? Absolutely not. Stewart had a higher ypc and higher conversion rate on carries with 1-3 yards to go, had a higher ypc and conversion rate in the red zone, and had a higher conversion rate on 3rd down.

I love that people are still trying to convince themselves that Stewart is better than Williams. I may just get Williams at pick 5!

 

[abe froman]

I voted SJax because he's the one that's proven that his stud-hood is independent of his offense. DeAngelo is far more likely to regress based on a regression in the offense around him, or a weakening of the offensive line, or he might simply have been playing over his head last year. SJax won't regress because things can't possibly get worse than they've been for the past two years.

I was hesitant to post because we don't seem to be seeing eye to eye in the Jonathan Stewart thread, but I'm not sure I agree with the bolded statement above.Jackson's one stud season was 2006. Bulger was also a stud that year, finishing as QB3, with over 4300 yards. Holt was a top-10 WR, Bruce had over 1000 yards, and the Rams were the 10th ranked offense.

For the record, I voted Williams in the pole, b/c I feel that StL's team is still in shambles, and I worry about Jackson staying healthy.

Please don't hesitate to disagree with me. I think disagreement is a very healthy platform from which we all can get a better feel for a player's true value, and I promise I won't take it personally. Besides, everyone else already does it, anyway. Jackson's one HEALTHY season was 2006, but he's been a stud every year. For instance, I think we'll all agree that the entire Rams offense was BRUTAL last year... but Steven Jackson still finished the season 3rd in points per game (behind only DeAngelo and Turner), and he finished 2007 7th in ppg (behind Tomlinson, Westbrook, Peterson, Portis, Addai, and JamLew). You can question whether he'll remain healthy or not, but there's absolutely no question that if he's on the field, he's an absolute stud- good QB, bad QB, good o-line, bad o-line, good defense, bad defense, none of it matters. If he plays 16 games, he's as close to a lock for a top 3 finish as you'll ever find.

You cant just throw that out there without listing what kind of scoring system you used to come up with that.. Last year in a PPR He actually finished 19th!!! Just a few off from 3rd! He finished 17th the year prior. For newer guys that may be undecided on him and come in here for advice or that little push to help them in their decision, this incorrect or incomplete info can cause issues with keeping newer members coming back. *IMO he's a stud but where he is being drafted he is overvalued. Deangelo has a MUCH lower floor IMO being that he will play more games. STL's Line is still suspect and that shouldnt make anyone comfortable with SJax's prospects of staying healthy this year again.

 

[SSOG]

I love that people are still trying to convince themselves that Stewart is better than Williams. I may just get Williams at pick 5!

I'm not "trying to convince myself" that Stewart is better than Williams... I am CONVINCED that Stewart is better than Williams. Of course, that's totally irrelevant with respect to this thread, because I don't think Stewart takes that much from Williams this year (especially since he's already nursing injuries). You simply said that Williams was better than Stewart in every aspect of the game last year, and that statement was blatantly, patently, absurdly false.

You cant just throw that out there without some kind of scoring system. Last year in a PPR He actually finished 19th!!! Just a few off from 3. He finished 17th the year prior. For newer guys that may be indecided on him and come in here for advice or that little push to help them in their decision, this incorrect or incomplete info that can cause issues with keeping newer members coming back. IMO he's a stud but where he is being drafted he is overvalued. Deangelo has a MUCH lower floor IMO

These are the official FBG message boards, and I'm using official FBG scoring. Besides, even if you prefer PPR, you're spectacularly wrong. Steven Jackson finished 19th in TOTAL POINTS, but as I said in the sentence that you helpfully bolded in my post, I was talking about points PER GAME. In FBG scoring + PPR, Jackson didn't finish 3rd in points PER GAME... he actually finished SECOND. His huge reception totals were enough to jump him past both DeAngelo *AND* Michael Turner (although Forte's even bigger reception totals allowed him to leap Jackson).

 

[abe froman]

I love that people are still trying to convince themselves that Stewart is better than Williams. I may just get Williams at pick 5!

I'm not "trying to convince myself" that Stewart is better than Williams... I am CONVINCED that Stewart is better than Williams. Of course, that's totally irrelevant with respect to this thread, because I don't think Stewart takes that much from Williams this year (especially since he's already nursing injuries). You simply said that Williams was better than Stewart in every aspect of the game last year, and that statement was blatantly, patently, absurdly false.

You cant just throw that out there without some kind of scoring system. Last year in a PPR He actually finished 19th!!! Just a few off from 3. He finished 17th the year prior. For newer guys that may be indecided on him and come in here for advice or that little push to help them in their decision, this incorrect or incomplete info that can cause issues with keeping newer members coming back. IMO he's a stud but where he is being drafted he is overvalued. Deangelo has a MUCH lower floor IMO

These are the official FBG message boards, and I'm using official FBG scoring. Besides, even if you prefer PPR, you're spectacularly wrong. Steven Jackson finished 19th in TOTAL POINTS, but as I said in the sentence that you helpfully bolded in my post, I was talking about points PER GAME. In FBG scoring + PPR, Jackson didn't finish 3rd in points PER GAME... he actually finished SECOND. His huge reception totals were enough to jump him past both DeAngelo *AND* Michael Turner (although Forte's even bigger reception totals allowed him to leap Jackson).

heres a PPR 1PT/10 YDS BREAKDOWN OF 08: avg per game is bolded1. 9. Williams, DeAngelo CAR RB 342 22.8 1340 249 18 0 121 22 2 0

2. 13. Westbrook, Brian PHI RB 282 21.7 886 220 9 0 390 52 5 0

3. 15. Bush, Reggie NOS RB 212 21.2 404 106 2 4 440 52 4 4

4. 16. Forte, Matt CHI RB 308 20.5 1181 302 8 2 459 61 4 2

5. 20. Peterson, Adrian MIN RB 298 19.9 1654 343 9 8 125 21 0 8

6. 24. Jones, Thomas NYJ RB 294 19.6 1289 280 13 2 206 35 2 2

7. 27. Turner, Michael ATL RB 290 19.3 1491 352 16 2 41 6 0 2

8. 31. Slaton, Steve HOU RB 279 18.6 1190 248 8 2 341 45 1 2

9. 36. Jackson, Steven STL RB 201 18.3 882 224 5 6 325 36 1 6 <<<<<<

10. 37. Barber, Marion DAL RB 255 18.2 872 235 7 4 397 50 2 4

feel free to debate figures copied directly from MFL top rushers in 08, sorted again by AVG per game. SJax didnt finish 2nd or 3rd any way you want to slice it in 08 or 07. period. Congrats on being a member since 03 though!

 

[Lott's Fingertip]

I love that people are still trying to convince themselves that Stewart is better than Williams. I may just get Williams at pick 5!

I'm not "trying to convince myself" that Stewart is better than Williams... I am CONVINCED that Stewart is better than Williams. Of course, that's totally irrelevant with respect to this thread, because I don't think Stewart takes that much from Williams this year (especially since he's already nursing injuries). You simply said that Williams was better than Stewart in every aspect of the game last year, and that statement was blatantly, patently, absurdly false.

You cant just throw that out there without some kind of scoring system. Last year in a PPR He actually finished 19th!!! Just a few off from 3. He finished 17th the year prior. For newer guys that may be indecided on him and come in here for advice or that little push to help them in their decision, this incorrect or incomplete info that can cause issues with keeping newer members coming back. IMO he's a stud but where he is being drafted he is overvalued. Deangelo has a MUCH lower floor IMO

These are the official FBG message boards, and I'm using official FBG scoring. Besides, even if you prefer PPR, you're spectacularly wrong. Steven Jackson finished 19th in TOTAL POINTS, but as I said in the sentence that you helpfully bolded in my post, I was talking about points PER GAME. In FBG scoring + PPR, Jackson didn't finish 3rd in points PER GAME... he actually finished SECOND. His huge reception totals were enough to jump him past both DeAngelo *AND* Michael Turner (although Forte's even bigger reception totals allowed him to leap Jackson).

heres a PPR 1PT/10 YDS BREAKDOWN OF 08: avg per game is bolded1. 9. Williams, DeAngelo CAR RB 342 22.8 1340 249 18 0 121 22 2 0

2. 13. Westbrook, Brian PHI RB 282 21.7 886 220 9 0 390 52 5 0

3. 15. Bush, Reggie NOS RB 212 21.2 404 106 2 4 440 52 4 4

4. 16. Forte, Matt CHI RB 308 20.5 1181 302 8 2 459 61 4 2

5. 20. Peterson, Adrian MIN RB 298 19.9 1654 343 9 8 125 21 0 8

6. 24. Jones, Thomas NYJ RB 294 19.6 1289 280 13 2 206 35 2 2

7. 27. Turner, Michael ATL RB 290 19.3 1491 352 16 2 41 6 0 2

8. 31. Slaton, Steve HOU RB 279 18.6 1190 248 8 2 341 45 1 2

9. 36. Jackson, Steven STL RB 201 18.3 882 224 5 6 325 36 1 6 <<<<<<

10. 37. Barber, Marion DAL RB 255 18.2 872 235 7 4 397 50 2 4

feel free to debate figures copied directly from MFL top rushers in 08, sorted again by AVG per game. SJax didnt finish 2nd or 3rd any way you want to slice it in 08 or 07. period. Congrats on being a member since 03 though!

Your league has some other scoring, maybe negatives for lost fumbles or something.Jackson had 1422 total yards, 8 TDs, and 40 receptions in 12 games.

142.2 + 48 + 40 = 230.2 points / 12 g = 19.18 ppg

D.Williams had 305.9 points / 16 g = 19.11 ppg

Westy : 271.8 / 14 = 19.41

Bush had 17.2

Forte had 19.21

Peterson = 16.82

T.Jones = 17.36

Slaton = 17.23

Turner 17.62

These are based on [(rushing yards + receiving yards)*.1 + TDs*6 + rec*1] / games played

Jackson is just behind Westbrrok and Forte, just ahead of Williams, and comfortably ahead of everybody else.

3rd overall in ppr ppg.

ETA: it's real annoying to have people called liars because YOUR scoring system is different.

 

[SSOG]

feel free to debate figures copied directly from MFL top rushers in 08, sorted again by AVG per game. SJax didnt finish 2nd or 3rd any way you want to slice it in 08 or 07. period. Congrats on being a member since 03 though!

Once again, all my numbers were official FBGs scoring + 1 ppr. SJax scored 190.2 points, +40 points for his 40 receptions = 230.2 points, divided by 12 games = 19.18 ppg. DeAngelo = (283.9 + 22)/16 = 19.12. Turner = (276 + 6)/16 = 17.63. Bush = (120.4 + 52)/16 = 17.24. Peterson = (248.2 + 21)/16 = 16.83. Thomas Jones = (241.9 + 36)/16 = 17.39. Steve Slaton = (225.9 + 50)/16 = 17.24. You might notice that every single one of these figures is lower than Jackson's 19.18. Heck, so far, only DeAngelo has managed to even come within a point and a half of SJax's per-game totals.I did miss Westbrook, though. Westy = (217.8 + 54)/14 = 19.41. Also, I already mentioned Forte- (243.5 + 64)/16 = 19.22, which is more than SJax scored. Again, these are all official FBG scores based on the official FBG scoring rules taken from the official FBGs site and posted on the official FBGs message board (and are therefore probably more relevant than whatever results you had in your MFL league whose scoring system we don't even know).

One final time, here are the PPG totals of all those RBs you listed using the official FBGs point totals, adding one point per reception, and dividing by number of games to get PPG.

Brian Westbrook - 19.41

Matt Forte - 19.22

Steven Jackson - 19.18

DeAngelo Williams - 19.12

Michael Turner - 17.63

Thomas Jones - 17.39

Steve Slaton - 17.24

Reggie Bush - 17.24

Adrian Peterson - 16.83

Edit: Beaten by Lott's Fingertip. Imagine what he could do if he had 9 other fingers!

 

[abe froman]

feel free to debate figures copied directly from MFL top rushers in 08, sorted again by AVG per game. SJax didnt finish 2nd or 3rd any way you want to slice it in 08 or 07. period. Congrats on being a member since 03 though!

Once again, all my numbers were official FBGs scoring + 1 ppr. SJax scored 190.2 points, +40 points for his 40 receptions = 230.2 points, divided by 12 games = 19.18 ppg. DeAngelo = (283.9 + 22)/16 = 19.12. Turner = (276 + 6)/16 = 17.63. Bush = (120.4 + 52)/16 = 17.24. Peterson = (248.2 + 21)/16 = 16.83. Thomas Jones = (241.9 + 36)/16 = 17.39. Steve Slaton = (225.9 + 50)/16 = 17.24. You might notice that every single one of these figures is lower than Jackson's 19.18. Heck, so far, only DeAngelo has managed to even come within a point and a half of SJax's per-game totals.I did miss Westbrook, though. Westy = (217.8 + 54)/14 = 19.41. Also, I already mentioned Forte- (243.5 + 64)/16 = 19.22, which is more than SJax scored. Again, these are all official FBG scores based on the official FBG scoring rules taken from the official FBGs site and posted on the official FBGs message board (and are therefore probably more relevant than whatever results you had in your MFL league whose scoring system we don't even know).

One final time, here are the PPG totals of all those RBs you listed using the official FBGs point totals, adding one point per reception, and dividing by number of games to get PPG.

Brian Westbrook - 19.41

Matt Forte - 19.22

Steven Jackson - 19.18

DeAngelo Williams - 19.12

Michael Turner - 17.63

Thomas Jones - 17.39

Steve Slaton - 17.24

Reggie Bush - 17.24

Adrian Peterson - 16.83

Edit: Beaten by Lott's Fingertip. Imagine what he could do if he had 9 other fingers!

Although you are correct that we do count fumbles(-2) as I would adjust any scoring to include because there definately should be a penalty for them when lost to defense, the main difference is like most leagues My figures were based on season totals THROUGH WEEK 16 which by then is most leagues Superbowl. SJax had a HUGE week 17 where he rand for 161yds and 2TD's to go along with 4 catches and 54yds.Look, my point was there are alot of different scoring types out there. When you jump in a post and just start stating opinions without FIRST stating what kind of scoring system your stats are coming from, you are gonna catch some heat but more importantly again there are inexperienced guys that will take your advice without doing their own homework. I only brought my scoring up to show the significant drop from where you stated he should have fallen. And enough with the "OFFICIAL FBG SCORING", last I heard FBG's doesnt handle official scoring for the NFL. I will never agree with you if you feel the need to factor in week 17 totals for ANY player. I only said something to begin with because you tend to throw alot of opinions out which come off like you are stating facts. I always like to add facts/data to support, or I will add IMO if I have a feeling about something where I dont add reasons..You should give it a try

 

[SSOG]

Although you are correct that we do count fumbles(-2) as I would adjust any scoring to include because there definately should be a penalty for them when lost to defense, the main difference is like most leagues My figures were based on season totals THROUGH WEEK 16 which by then is most leagues Superbowl. SJax had a HUGE week 17 where he rand for 161yds and 2TD's to go along with 4 catches and 54yds.

Look, my point was there are alot of different scoring types out there. When you jump in a post and just start stating opinions without FIRST stating what kind of scoring system your stats are coming from, you are gonna catch some heat but more importantly again there are inexperienced guys that will take your advice without doing their own homework. I only brought my scoring up to show the significant drop from where you stated he should have fallen. And enough with the "OFFICIAL FBG SCORING", last I heard FBG's doesnt handle official scoring for the NFL. I will never agree with you if you feel the need to factor in week 17 totals for ANY player. I only said something to begin with because you tend to throw alot of opinions out which come off like you are stating facts. I always like to add facts/data to support, or I will add IMO if I have a feeling about something where I dont add reasons..You should give it a try

Why shouldn't week 17 totals count? It's true that they didn't benefit you last year, but you don't score fantasy points for what happened last year, you score fantasy points for what happens going forward... and week 17 games are just as predictive of what a back will do going forward as week 16 games are (unless one team or the other is resting starters). Are you saying that if I'm discussing how Larry Fitzgerald did last season it would be disingenuous to mention that he had the best postseason OF ANY WR IN HISTORY? When we're talking about how Santonio Holmes might do going forward should I just not say anything about how he seemed to grab the WR1 role in the postseason, (since after all that hardly benefited anyone's fantasy team)? Do you have a legitimate reason why Steven Jackson's week 17 performance should be discarded? It's not like he was playing a team that was resting its starters- he played against an 11-5 Atlanta squad that was playing for home playoff games and a first round bye, a team that played its starters for the entire game. Do you think there's some magic ability Steven Jackson has that only lets him go off during week 17 but keeps him in check for the first 16 weeks? Why is his week 17 performance last year not relevant when discussing his prospects this year?There are a lot of different scoring systems out there, but some are DRAMATICALLY more common than others. It's understood whenever anyone is talking about fantasy players that they're discussing them in a point-per-10-yard, 6-per-TD system (no PPR, unless otherwise specified). That's not misleading or anything, that's par for the course in every thread on the entire board- always assume standard scoring unless someone says otherwise. In fact, I would wager that 95% of leagues score 1 point per 10 yards rushing/receiving and 6 points per rushing/receiving TD (whether they include PPR or not), so no, I don't feel the need to couch all of my comments with a disclaimer that I'm talking about point per 10 yards, 6 per TD scoring systems (especially since Jackson is an even bigger beast in PPR leagues than he is in non-PPR leagues). Have I missed something? Does everyone else always specify what scoring system they're talking about whenever they say anything? Why didn't you get on Jurb's case for saying "My new top 3 may look like this: MJD, Williams, Peterson." instead of "My new top 3 may look like this: MJD, Williams, Peterson... in standard FBG scoring leagues that do not award 1 point per reception!!!!"? Why are you not starting a crusade against the FBG staff because the official FBG staff rankings page doesn't specify that they're ranking based on official FBG scoring?

I'm sorry you think that I throw out a lot of opinions. Actually, let me rephrase- I'm sorry that you think it's a BAD THING that I throw out so many opinions. Opinions are a 98% of what people come to the Shark Pool for- if all they wanted was facts without any analysis of what those facts meant, they'd just sign up for the FBG Email updates and be done with it. Moreover, 100% of the people who came into this thread came looking for opinions, since the thread title makes it perfectly clear that it's an opinion thread and not a news thread. I'm also sorry if you think I'm stating my opinions as fact... but in this case, I *AM* stating it as fact. Because it is a fact. Steven Jackson was a top-3 RB in PPG last season. That's a fact. Steven Jackson has played at a STUD level for each of the past three seasons. That's a fact. Even accounting for his missed games, Steven Jackson ranks third among RBs in total fantasy points over the past three years behind only Tomlinson and Westbrook. That's a fact. His season-ending totals don't look as impressive because he's missed time, but when Steven Jackson is on the field, he is one of the top three fantasy RBs in the game. That's a fact. It doesn't matter what scoring system you use, or whether you're in a PPR or non-PPR league- in 99% of all scoring systems, Steven Jackson is a stud nonpareil. That is a FACT. If new members wind up leaving because I said that Steven Jackson is a fantasy beast when he's on the field and that people don't realize just how good he's been when healthy, then that's their problem. I'm just pointing out something that most people don't realize- that Steven Jackson has been one of the most consistent fantasy beasts in the entire NFL for three years running now. That's a fact.

 

[MCguidance]

Although you are correct that we do count fumbles(-2) as I would adjust any scoring to include because there definately should be a penalty for them when lost to defense, the main difference is like most leagues My figures were based on season totals THROUGH WEEK 16 which by then is most leagues Superbowl. SJax had a HUGE week 17 where he rand for 161yds and 2TD's to go along with 4 catches and 54yds.

Look, my point was there are alot of different scoring types out there. When you jump in a post and just start stating opinions without FIRST stating what kind of scoring system your stats are coming from, you are gonna catch some heat but more importantly again there are inexperienced guys that will take your advice without doing their own homework. I only brought my scoring up to show the significant drop from where you stated he should have fallen. And enough with the "OFFICIAL FBG SCORING", last I heard FBG's doesnt handle official scoring for the NFL. I will never agree with you if you feel the need to factor in week 17 totals for ANY player. I only said something to begin with because you tend to throw alot of opinions out which come off like you are stating facts. I always like to add facts/data to support, or I will add IMO if I have a feeling about something where I dont add reasons..You should give it a try

Why shouldn't week 17 totals count? It's true that they didn't benefit you last year, but you don't score fantasy points for what happened last year, you score fantasy points for what happens going forward... and week 17 games are just as predictive of what a back will do going forward as week 16 games are (unless one team or the other is resting starters). Are you saying that if I'm discussing how Larry Fitzgerald did last season it would be disingenuous to mention that he had the best postseason OF ANY WR IN HISTORY? When we're talking about how Santonio Holmes might do going forward should I just not say anything about how he seemed to grab the WR1 role in the postseason, (since after all that hardly benefited anyone's fantasy team)? Do you have a legitimate reason why Steven Jackson's week 17 performance should be discarded? It's not like he was playing a team that was resting its starters- he played against an 11-5 Atlanta squad that was playing for home playoff games and a first round bye, a team that played its starters for the entire game. Do you think there's some magic ability Steven Jackson has that only lets him go off during week 17 but keeps him in check for the first 16 weeks? Why is his week 17 performance last year not relevant when discussing his prospects this year?There are a lot of different scoring systems out there, but some are DRAMATICALLY more common than others. It's understood whenever anyone is talking about fantasy players that they're discussing them in a point-per-10-yard, 6-per-TD system (no PPR, unless otherwise specified). That's not misleading or anything, that's par for the course in every thread on the entire board- always assume standard scoring unless someone says otherwise. In fact, I would wager that 95% of leagues score 1 point per 10 yards rushing/receiving and 6 points per rushing/receiving TD (whether they include PPR or not), so no, I don't feel the need to couch all of my comments with a disclaimer that I'm talking about point per 10 yards, 6 per TD scoring systems (especially since Jackson is an even bigger beast in PPR leagues than he is in non-PPR leagues). Have I missed something? Does everyone else always specify what scoring system they're talking about whenever they say anything? Why didn't you get on Jurb's case for saying "My new top 3 may look like this: MJD, Williams, Peterson." instead of "My new top 3 may look like this: MJD, Williams, Peterson... in standard FBG scoring leagues that do not award 1 point per reception!!!!"? Why are you not starting a crusade against the FBG staff because the official FBG staff rankings page doesn't specify that they're ranking based on official FBG scoring?

I'm sorry you think that I throw out a lot of opinions. Actually, let me rephrase- I'm sorry that you think it's a BAD THING that I throw out so many opinions. Opinions are a 98% of what people come to the Shark Pool for- if all they wanted was facts without any analysis of what those facts meant, they'd just sign up for the FBG Email updates and be done with it. Moreover, 100% of the people who came into this thread came looking for opinions, since the thread title makes it perfectly clear that it's an opinion thread and not a news thread. I'm also sorry if you think I'm stating my opinions as fact... but in this case, I *AM* stating it as fact. Because it is a fact. Steven Jackson was a top-3 RB in PPG last season. That's a fact. Steven Jackson has played at a STUD level for each of the past three seasons. That's a fact. Even accounting for his missed games, Steven Jackson ranks third among RBs in total fantasy points over the past three years behind only Tomlinson and Westbrook. That's a fact. His season-ending totals don't look as impressive because he's missed time, but when Steven Jackson is on the field, he is one of the top three fantasy RBs in the game. That's a fact. It doesn't matter what scoring system you use, or whether you're in a PPR or non-PPR league- in 99% of all scoring systems, Steven Jackson is a stud nonpareil. That is a FACT. If new members wind up leaving because I said that Steven Jackson is a fantasy beast when he's on the field and that people don't realize just how good he's been when healthy, then that's their problem. I'm just pointing out something that most people don't realize- that Steven Jackson has been one of the most consistent fantasy beasts in the entire NFL for three years running now. That's a fact.

/ debateNow, my question is this: if SJax has such a high ppg, why are so many people on board with DWilliams? I am teetering between the two. Does the SP think that Williams will stay healthy and is in the better offensive unit? Is it that simple? I love Sjax, hate thge situation. Like Williams, really like the situation. For me it's really close.

 

[abe froman]

Although you are correct that we do count fumbles(-2) as I would adjust any scoring to include because there definately should be a penalty for them when lost to defense, the main difference is like most leagues My figures were based on season totals THROUGH WEEK 16 which by then is most leagues Superbowl. SJax had a HUGE week 17 where he rand for 161yds and 2TD's to go along with 4 catches and 54yds.

Look, my point was there are alot of different scoring types out there. When you jump in a post and just start stating opinions without FIRST stating what kind of scoring system your stats are coming from, you are gonna catch some heat but more importantly again there are inexperienced guys that will take your advice without doing their own homework. I only brought my scoring up to show the significant drop from where you stated he should have fallen. And enough with the "OFFICIAL FBG SCORING", last I heard FBG's doesnt handle official scoring for the NFL. I will never agree with you if you feel the need to factor in week 17 totals for ANY player. I only said something to begin with because you tend to throw alot of opinions out which come off like you are stating facts. I always like to add facts/data to support, or I will add IMO if I have a feeling about something where I dont add reasons..You should give it a try

Why shouldn't week 17 totals count? It's true that they didn't benefit you last year, but you don't score fantasy points for what happened last year, you score fantasy points for what happens going forward... and week 17 games are just as predictive of what a back will do going forward as week 16 games are (unless one team or the other is resting starters). Are you saying that if I'm discussing how Larry Fitzgerald did last season it would be disingenuous to mention that he had the best postseason OF ANY WR IN HISTORY? When we're talking about how Santonio Holmes might do going forward should I just not say anything about how he seemed to grab the WR1 role in the postseason, (since after all that hardly benefited anyone's fantasy team)? Do you have a legitimate reason why Steven Jackson's week 17 performance should be discarded? It's not like he was playing a team that was resting its starters- he played against an 11-5 Atlanta squad that was playing for home playoff games and a first round bye, a team that played its starters for the entire game. Do you think there's some magic ability Steven Jackson has that only lets him go off during week 17 but keeps him in check for the first 16 weeks? Why is his week 17 performance last year not relevant when discussing his prospects this year?There are a lot of different scoring systems out there, but some are DRAMATICALLY more common than others. It's understood whenever anyone is talking about fantasy players that they're discussing them in a point-per-10-yard, 6-per-TD system (no PPR, unless otherwise specified). That's not misleading or anything, that's par for the course in every thread on the entire board- always assume standard scoring unless someone says otherwise. In fact, I would wager that 95% of leagues score 1 point per 10 yards rushing/receiving and 6 points per rushing/receiving TD (whether they include PPR or not), so no, I don't feel the need to couch all of my comments with a disclaimer that I'm talking about point per 10 yards, 6 per TD scoring systems (especially since Jackson is an even bigger beast in PPR leagues than he is in non-PPR leagues). Have I missed something? Does everyone else always specify what scoring system they're talking about whenever they say anything? Why didn't you get on Jurb's case for saying "My new top 3 may look like this: MJD, Williams, Peterson." instead of "My new top 3 may look like this: MJD, Williams, Peterson... in standard FBG scoring leagues that do not award 1 point per reception!!!!"? Why are you not starting a crusade against the FBG staff because the official FBG staff rankings page doesn't specify that they're ranking based on official FBG scoring?

I'm sorry you think that I throw out a lot of opinions. Actually, let me rephrase- I'm sorry that you think it's a BAD THING that I throw out so many opinions. Opinions are a 98% of what people come to the Shark Pool for- if all they wanted was facts without any analysis of what those facts meant, they'd just sign up for the FBG Email updates and be done with it. Moreover, 100% of the people who came into this thread came looking for opinions, since the thread title makes it perfectly clear that it's an opinion thread and not a news thread. I'm also sorry if you think I'm stating my opinions as fact... but in this case, I *AM* stating it as fact. Because it is a fact. Steven Jackson was a top-3 RB in PPG last season. That's a fact. Steven Jackson has played at a STUD level for each of the past three seasons. That's a fact. Even accounting for his missed games, Steven Jackson ranks third among RBs in total fantasy points over the past three years behind only Tomlinson and Westbrook. That's a fact. His season-ending totals don't look as impressive because he's missed time, but when Steven Jackson is on the field, he is one of the top three fantasy RBs in the game. That's a fact. It doesn't matter what scoring system you use, or whether you're in a PPR or non-PPR league- in 99% of all scoring systems, Steven Jackson is a stud nonpareil. That is a FACT. If new members wind up leaving because I said that Steven Jackson is a fantasy beast when he's on the field and that people don't realize just how good he's been when healthy, then that's their problem. I'm just pointing out something that most people don't realize- that Steven Jackson has been one of the most consistent fantasy beasts in the entire NFL for three years running now. That's a fact.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on SJax. 1. imo He is not a top 3 RB in a PPR, 6PTS/TD, 1PT PER 10YDS league due to the actual standings that I copied and pasted. That's all I can do is copy>paste how last year shook out(not counting week 17). Thats how I state my facts -with visual data to support.

2.Regarding week 17: While it's fine that SJax played a legit team NOT ALL OTHER BACKS DO which is why I dont believe it's a level playing field to count #"s for all RB's.

3. Playoff performances: we are talking about fantasy football so unless there is a rookie that starts getting hot in the final weeks and then blows up in the playoffs, Im fine with using the previous 16 weeks as a basis for my data. In a non PPR Fitz was a #1 WR prior to playoffs so what he didnt in the playoffs didnt do anything to remove him from that spot. BUT in a PPR I still wouldnt take him over AJ. Homes taking over the WR1 role in the playoffs is fine but besides the point. He's a fine WR2-2.5..

*for my non PPR leagues I like to see where FBG's rank players but I dont make decisions based on it. Gonna have to revisit this thread after 09 season for sure...

 

[mozzy84]

jackson had 3 good games where most of his points came from last year and one was week 17. he had 6 games with 16 points or less, not good at for a high pick in a ppr league.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

SJax won't regress because things can't possibly get worse than they've been for the past two years.

Not so sure about that. You could make an argument that their WRs are the worst they've been in over a decade, and Bulger is already injured and seems to have little left in the tank. I think things could end up being worse than last year.

Even still, two years ago the Rams were using their 3rd string quarterback, had one starting offensive lineman playing, Torry Holt was injured leaving their WR corps just as limited (if not more so) than it will be this year, and hell even their COACH was out injured for a part of the year, and Jackson still put up solid numbers.People underestimate just how bad St Louis was as a team last year. It was one of the all-time worst situations for a RB. In the last 10 years, only the Aaron Brooks Raiders were a worse spot. The Rams were abandoning the run by the second quarter, barely ever could pick up a 3rd down, took a ton of sacks that forced them to throw, and went stretches of several games without a SINGLE trip to the redzone.Last year, Steven Jackson had less redzone carries than THREE different players on the Patriots. He had less redzone carries than backups that barely played half the season like Mewelde Moore. The situation really can't get any worse, and who knows, with the way the NFL changes rapidly for little visible reason (Miami, Atlanta, Baltimore last year) things could change for the better very rapidly. And even if this team became mediocre or just bad (rather than awful) it could mean a huge increase for Jackson.That said, put a gun to my head, and I'll probably take DeAngelo in this poll. But that's more an indication of how high I am on DeAngelo with Stewart already reeling with that achilles than any negative about Jackson. I have the two very close, and right up near the top of my rankings.

 

[abe froman]

Although you are correct that we do count fumbles(-2) as I would adjust any scoring to include because there definately should be a penalty for them when lost to defense, the main difference is like most leagues My figures were based on season totals THROUGH WEEK 16 which by then is most leagues Superbowl. SJax had a HUGE week 17 where he rand for 161yds and 2TD's to go along with 4 catches and 54yds.

Look, my point was there are alot of different scoring types out there. When you jump in a post and just start stating opinions without FIRST stating what kind of scoring system your stats are coming from, you are gonna catch some heat but more importantly again there are inexperienced guys that will take your advice without doing their own homework. I only brought my scoring up to show the significant drop from where you stated he should have fallen. And enough with the "OFFICIAL FBG SCORING", last I heard FBG's doesnt handle official scoring for the NFL. I will never agree with you if you feel the need to factor in week 17 totals for ANY player. I only said something to begin with because you tend to throw alot of opinions out which come off like you are stating facts. I always like to add facts/data to support, or I will add IMO if I have a feeling about something where I dont add reasons..You should give it a try

Why shouldn't week 17 totals count? It's true that they didn't benefit you last year, but you don't score fantasy points for what happened last year, you score fantasy points for what happens going forward... and week 17 games are just as predictive of what a back will do going forward as week 16 games are (unless one team or the other is resting starters). Are you saying that if I'm discussing how Larry Fitzgerald did last season it would be disingenuous to mention that he had the best postseason OF ANY WR IN HISTORY? When we're talking about how Santonio Holmes might do going forward should I just not say anything about how he seemed to grab the WR1 role in the postseason, (since after all that hardly benefited anyone's fantasy team)? Do you have a legitimate reason why Steven Jackson's week 17 performance should be discarded? It's not like he was playing a team that was resting its starters- he played against an 11-5 Atlanta squad that was playing for home playoff games and a first round bye, a team that played its starters for the entire game. Do you think there's some magic ability Steven Jackson has that only lets him go off during week 17 but keeps him in check for the first 16 weeks? Why is his week 17 performance last year not relevant when discussing his prospects this year?There are a lot of different scoring systems out there, but some are DRAMATICALLY more common than others. It's understood whenever anyone is talking about fantasy players that they're discussing them in a point-per-10-yard, 6-per-TD system (no PPR, unless otherwise specified). That's not misleading or anything, that's par for the course in every thread on the entire board- always assume standard scoring unless someone says otherwise. In fact, I would wager that 95% of leagues score 1 point per 10 yards rushing/receiving and 6 points per rushing/receiving TD (whether they include PPR or not), so no, I don't feel the need to couch all of my comments with a disclaimer that I'm talking about point per 10 yards, 6 per TD scoring systems (especially since Jackson is an even bigger beast in PPR leagues than he is in non-PPR leagues). Have I missed something? Does everyone else always specify what scoring system they're talking about whenever they say anything? Why didn't you get on Jurb's case for saying "My new top 3 may look like this: MJD, Williams, Peterson." instead of "My new top 3 may look like this: MJD, Williams, Peterson... in standard FBG scoring leagues that do not award 1 point per reception!!!!"? Why are you not starting a crusade against the FBG staff because the official FBG staff rankings page doesn't specify that they're ranking based on official FBG scoring?

I'm sorry you think that I throw out a lot of opinions. Actually, let me rephrase- I'm sorry that you think it's a BAD THING that I throw out so many opinions. Opinions are a 98% of what people come to the Shark Pool for- if all they wanted was facts without any analysis of what those facts meant, they'd just sign up for the FBG Email updates and be done with it. Moreover, 100% of the people who came into this thread came looking for opinions, since the thread title makes it perfectly clear that it's an opinion thread and not a news thread. I'm also sorry if you think I'm stating my opinions as fact... but in this case, I *AM* stating it as fact. Because it is a fact. Steven Jackson was a top-3 RB in PPG last season. That's a fact. Steven Jackson has played at a STUD level for each of the past three seasons. That's a fact. Even accounting for his missed games, Steven Jackson ranks third among RBs in total fantasy points over the past three years behind only Tomlinson and Westbrook. That's a fact. His season-ending totals don't look as impressive because he's missed time, but when Steven Jackson is on the field, he is one of the top three fantasy RBs in the game. That's a fact. It doesn't matter what scoring system you use, or whether you're in a PPR or non-PPR league- in 99% of all scoring systems, Steven Jackson is a stud nonpareil. That is a FACT. If new members wind up leaving because I said that Steven Jackson is a fantasy beast when he's on the field and that people don't realize just how good he's been when healthy, then that's their problem. I'm just pointing out something that most people don't realize- that Steven Jackson has been one of the most consistent fantasy beasts in the entire NFL for three years running now. That's a fact.

/ debateNow, my question is this: if SJax has such a high ppg, why are so many people on board with DWilliams? I am teetering between the two. Does the SP think that Williams will stay healthy and is in the better offensive unit? Is it that simple? I love Sjax, hate thge situation. Like Williams, really like the situation. For me it's really close.

Id say a combo of DeWill's situation, his off unit as well as his Def unti will get him into more scoring situations and Stew may have some injury concerns. SJax already has a dinged up QB, and no true WR1 as of yet. The Oline will still be horrible. that alone is reason to look elsewhere, for me at least. but Im only 1 person. Looking at the votes Im not the only 1 afraid of SJAX

 

[mozzy84]

Although you are correct that we do count fumbles(-2) as I would adjust any scoring to include because there definately should be a penalty for them when lost to defense, the main difference is like most leagues My figures were based on season totals THROUGH WEEK 16 which by then is most leagues Superbowl. SJax had a HUGE week 17 where he rand for 161yds and 2TD's to go along with 4 catches and 54yds.Look, my point was there are alot of different scoring types out there. When you jump in a post and just start stating opinions without FIRST stating what kind of scoring system your stats are coming from, you are gonna catch some heat but more importantly again there are inexperienced guys that will take your advice without doing their own homework. I only brought my scoring up to show the significant drop from where you stated he should have fallen. And enough with the "OFFICIAL FBG SCORING", last I heard FBG's doesnt handle official scoring for the NFL. I will never agree with you if you feel the need to factor in week 17 totals for ANY player. I only said something to begin with because you tend to throw alot of opinions out which come off like you are stating facts. I always like to add facts/data to support, or I will add IMO if I have a feeling about something where I dont add reasons..You should give it a try

His season-ending totals don't look as impressive because he's missed time, but when Steven Jackson is on the field, he is one of the top three fantasy RBs in the game. That's a fact. It doesn't matter what scoring system you use, or whether you're in a PPR or non-PPR league- in 99% of all scoring systems, Steven Jackson is a stud nonpareil.

I disagree, I had him last year and he was average at best most games, far from studly. Look how he ended the season - 12, 14.7, 22.7, 13.9. Not very studly come playoff time.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

jackson had 3 good games where most of his points came from last year and one was week 17. he had 6 games with 16 points or less, not good at for a high pick in a ppr league.

This is par for the course in fantasy football. Great players get the majority of their points in a few games and do decently the rest of the way. When people are great every week, it's a record breaking season a la LT's 31 TD year. DeAngelo had 6 games under 10 points last year.

That's not to mention that even Jackson's "down" games are much less "down" than that of many other top picks. For instance.

Steven Jackson has had ONE game below six points (even in non-ppr leagues) in the last THREE YEARS.

Michael Turner, a top pick, had FIVE games below six points (even in ppr leagues) LAST YEAR alone.

 

[laughinboy_2000]

Nobody that has posted from what I can see has bought up the O-Line for S-Jax or DeAngelo. The answer for me b/t these two players are simple. It's DeAngelo b/c of the O-Line. The Panthers have one of the best O-lines in the NFL IMO. The Rams O-line is not that great. Also the Panthers have Smittee, Stewart, and Goodsen take the pressure off of D-Will when need be. D-Will will be a top 5 back this year. I'm no so sure about S-Jax b/c of the situation he's in.

 

[puckalicious]

It's close for me. I'd pick DWill to play it safe, or SJax to take the higher risk/reward. In the first round I think you take the safer pick.

Now, who would you pick between DWill or LT??

 

[JMJ]

My top 5 RB rankings (non PPR) go:

1. Adrian Peterson

2. Michael Turner

3. Maurice Jones Drew

4. DeAngelo Williams

5. LaDanian Tomlinson

 

[SSOG]

FreeBagel is killing it. Yes, Jackson's O-line is worse this year. It was worse last year when he put up comparable PPG numbers to DeAngelo "career year (not gonna repeat those 20 TDs)" Williams, too... but it didn't stop SJax then. Why should it now? Yes, Jackson's QB is injured and his WRs are terrible. The passing game was terrible last year when teams stuffed the box like it was going out of style. It didn't stop Jackson then. Why should it now? Yes, DeAngelo's team is going to have more leads to run out. SJax had few leads to run out last year, but it didn't stop Jackson from putting up monster numbers. Why should it now? Last year, St. Louis had the 30th ranked scoring offense and the 31st ranked scoring defense. They ranked 26th in passing yardage and 25th in rushing yardage. Marc Bulger got dinged up. Torry Holt got dinged up. The offensive line was legitimately bad. Steven Jackson still averaged 120 yards from scrimmage per game.

Last year, St. Louis was legitimately horrible (FreeBagel really explained it well). Despite this, SJax ranked 3rd in PPG in standard scoring leagues. He ranked 3rd in PPG in PPR leagues. He ranked 3rd in PPG in yardage heavy leagues (1pt per 5 yards). Heck, he even managed to check in at 4th in a league I'm in that rewards punt return yardage (Bush jumped him). Basically the only league where Jackson wasn't a top-3 RB on a PPG basis last year would be a TD-only league.

You want to talk about consistency? Last year, in non-PPR, Jackson scored under 10 points 3 times in 12 games (25%)... and in one of those three games Jackson was hurt and didn't touch the ball past halfway through the second quarter. DeAngelo failed to crack double digits 6 times in 16 games (38%). In his best 3 games (25% of his season), Jackson scored 49% of his points. In his best 4 games (25% of his season), DeAngelo scored 46% of his points. And this is in non-PPR (a comparison that favors Williams). If you look at PPR, Jackson only looks more consistent in comparison to DeAngelo. Also, if you only look at the 11 games where Jackson played the whole game, he looks even better still. So the whole "I'll take Williams over Jackson because Jackson was inconsistent" argument doesn't really fly, since Williams was even MORE inconsistent.

That's the key, in my mind- last year, Jackson and Williams actually performed pretty comparably in terms of PPG and consistency, but Williams' situation couldn't possibly get any better, and Jackson's couldn't possibly get any worse. Add in the fact that Jackson has a much longer history of production and it becomes SJax in a runaway. I can see leaning towards someone else if you're terrified of another injury, but injury is pretty much the only reason, in my opinion, to not rank Steven Jackson as one of the top 3 RBs on the board. If not for the injury concerns, I'd take him #1 overall.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

FreeBagel is killing it. Yes, Jackson's O-line is worse this year. It was worse last year when he put up comparable PPG numbers to DeAngelo "career year (not gonna repeat those 20 TDs)" Williams, too... but it didn't stop SJax then. Why should it now? Yes, Jackson's QB is injured and his WRs are terrible. The passing game was terrible last year when teams stuffed the box like it was going out of style. It didn't stop Jackson then. Why should it now? Yes, DeAngelo's team is going to have more leads to run out. SJax had few leads to run out last year, but it didn't stop Jackson from putting up monster numbers. Why should it now? Last year, St. Louis had the 30th ranked scoring offense and the 31st ranked scoring defense. They ranked 26th in passing yardage and 25th in rushing yardage. Marc Bulger got dinged up. Torry Holt got dinged up. The offensive line was legitimately bad. Steven Jackson still averaged 120 yards from scrimmage per game.Last year, St. Louis was legitimately horrible (FreeBagel really explained it well). Despite this, SJax ranked 3rd in PPG in standard scoring leagues. He ranked 3rd in PPG in PPR leagues. He ranked 3rd in PPG in yardage heavy leagues (1pt per 5 yards). Heck, he even managed to check in at 4th in a league I'm in that rewards punt return yardage (Bush jumped him). Basically the only league where Jackson wasn't a top-3 RB on a PPG basis last year would be a TD-only league.You want to talk about consistency? Last year, in non-PPR, Jackson scored under 10 points 3 times in 12 games (25%)... and in one of those three games Jackson was hurt and didn't touch the ball past halfway through the second quarter. DeAngelo failed to crack double digits 6 times in 16 games (38%). In his best 3 games (25% of his season), Jackson scored 49% of his points. In his best 4 games (25% of his season), DeAngelo scored 46% of his points. And this is in non-PPR (a comparison that favors Williams). If you look at PPR, Jackson only looks more consistent in comparison to DeAngelo. Also, if you only look at the 11 games where Jackson played the whole game, he looks even better still. So the whole "I'll take Williams over Jackson because Jackson was inconsistent" argument doesn't really fly, since Williams was even MORE inconsistent.That's the key, in my mind- last year, Jackson and Williams actually performed pretty comparably in terms of PPG and consistency, but Williams' situation couldn't possibly get any better, and Jackson's couldn't possibly get any worse. Add in the fact that Jackson has a much longer history of production and it becomes SJax in a runaway. I can see leaning towards someone else if you're terrified of another injury, but injury is pretty much the only reason, in my opinion, to not rank Steven Jackson as one of the top 3 RBs on the board. If not for the injury concerns, I'd take him #1 overall.

good analysis

 

[MCguidance]

Too much good information for both players in this thread. I am beginning to think it's simply a matter or preference.

 

[mozzy84]

jackson had 3 good games where most of his points came from last year and one was week 17. he had 6 games with 16 points or less, not good at for a high pick in a ppr league.

This is par for the course in fantasy football. Great players get the majority of their points in a few games and do decently the rest of the way. When people are great every week, it's a record breaking season a la LT's 31 TD year. DeAngelo had 6 games under 10 points last year.

That's not to mention that even Jackson's "down" games are much less "down" than that of many other top picks. For instance.

Steven Jackson has had ONE game below six points (even in non-ppr leagues) in the last THREE YEARS.

Michael Turner, a top pick, had FIVE games below six points (even in ppr leagues) LAST YEAR alone.

if you think 10-15 points is decent in a ppr league I would have to disagree. Guys like kevin faulk can get you that. Jackson had 80 points in two games, and only two other games where he scored over 20. Deangelo killed those stats and I only counted 4 games with less than 10...

 

[itsme]

FreeBagel is killing it. Yes, Jackson's O-line is worse this year. It was worse last year when he put up comparable PPG numbers to DeAngelo "career year (not gonna repeat those 20 TDs)" Williams, too... but it didn't stop SJax then. Why should it now? Yes, Jackson's QB is injured and his WRs are terrible. The passing game was terrible last year when teams stuffed the box like it was going out of style. It didn't stop Jackson then. Why should it now? Yes, DeAngelo's team is going to have more leads to run out. SJax had few leads to run out last year, but it didn't stop Jackson from putting up monster numbers. Why should it now? Last year, St. Louis had the 30th ranked scoring offense and the 31st ranked scoring defense. They ranked 26th in passing yardage and 25th in rushing yardage. Marc Bulger got dinged up. Torry Holt got dinged up. The offensive line was legitimately bad. Steven Jackson still averaged 120 yards from scrimmage per game.Last year, St. Louis was legitimately horrible (FreeBagel really explained it well). Despite this, SJax ranked 3rd in PPG in standard scoring leagues. He ranked 3rd in PPG in PPR leagues. He ranked 3rd in PPG in yardage heavy leagues (1pt per 5 yards). Heck, he even managed to check in at 4th in a league I'm in that rewards punt return yardage (Bush jumped him). Basically the only league where Jackson wasn't a top-3 RB on a PPG basis last year would be a TD-only league.You want to talk about consistency? Last year, in non-PPR, Jackson scored under 10 points 3 times in 12 games (25%)... and in one of those three games Jackson was hurt and didn't touch the ball past halfway through the second quarter. DeAngelo failed to crack double digits 6 times in 16 games (38%). In his best 3 games (25% of his season), Jackson scored 49% of his points. In his best 4 games (25% of his season), DeAngelo scored 46% of his points. And this is in non-PPR (a comparison that favors Williams). If you look at PPR, Jackson only looks more consistent in comparison to DeAngelo. Also, if you only look at the 11 games where Jackson played the whole game, he looks even better still. So the whole "I'll take Williams over Jackson because Jackson was inconsistent" argument doesn't really fly, since Williams was even MORE inconsistent.That's the key, in my mind- last year, Jackson and Williams actually performed pretty comparably in terms of PPG and consistency, but Williams' situation couldn't possibly get any better, and Jackson's couldn't possibly get any worse. Add in the fact that Jackson has a much longer history of production and it becomes SJax in a runaway. I can see leaning towards someone else if you're terrified of another injury, but injury is pretty much the only reason, in my opinion, to not rank Steven Jackson as one of the top 3 RBs on the board. If not for the injury concerns, I'd take him #1 overall.

This is exactly the kind of response I was hoping for when I started this thread. Thanks SSOG for the deep and insightful explanation.

 

[SSOG]

jackson had 3 good games where most of his points came from last year and one was week 17. he had 6 games with 16 points or less, not good at for a high pick in a ppr league.

This is par for the course in fantasy football. Great players get the majority of their points in a few games and do decently the rest of the way. When people are great every week, it's a record breaking season a la LT's 31 TD year. DeAngelo had 6 games under 10 points last year.

That's not to mention that even Jackson's "down" games are much less "down" than that of many other top picks. For instance.

Steven Jackson has had ONE game below six points (even in non-ppr leagues) in the last THREE YEARS.

Michael Turner, a top pick, had FIVE games below six points (even in ppr leagues) LAST YEAR alone.

if you think 10-15 points is decent in a ppr league I would have to disagree. Guys like kevin faulk can get you that. Jackson had 80 points in two games, and only two other games where he scored over 20. Deangelo killed those stats and I only counted 4 games with less than 10...

10.0, 3.5, 6.4, 8.6, 5.5, 14.0. That's two games where DeAngelo fell in the "Guys like Kevin Faulk can get you that" range, and 4 more where he didn't even manage that much.10.4, 14.1, 1.7, 12, 13.9. That's 4 games where Steven Jackson fell in the "guys like Kevin Faulk can get you that" range, and 1 more where he didn't even manage that (that's the game where he was injured in the second quarter).

If below 15 points is a bad game from a stud in PPR, then DeAngelo was essentially as likely to give you a bad game than SJax last year (38% to 42%). If below 10 points is a TERRIBLE game from a stud in PPR, a game not even worthy of a guy like Kevin Faulk, then DeAngelo was significantly more likely to give you a TERRIBLE game last year than SJax (31% to 8%... and that 8% only happened because SJax was injured!). I really, really, really don't understand how you can keep insisting that DeAngelo is a better pick this year because he was more consistent last year. You keep saying that Steven Jackson had a bunch of bad games, and that he scored all of his points in two games... but look at DeAngelo. In fact, here's a breakdown of how each back scored through the season (again, using PPR scoring)

<10

SJax: 1 (8%)

DeAngelo: 4 (25%)

10-14.9

SJax: 4 (33%)

DeAngelo: 2 (13%)

15-19.9

SJax: 3 (25%)

DeAngelo: 2 (13%)

20-24.9

SJax: 1 (8%)

DeAngelo: 4 (25%)

25-29.9

SJax: 1 (8%)

DeAngelo: 0 (0%)

30+

SJax: 2 (17%)

DeAngelo: 4 (25%)

SJax scored fewer than 10 points or more than 30 points 25% of the time. DeAngelo scored fewer than 10 points or more than 30 points a whopping 50% of the time. In other words, DeAngelo was twice as likely to either boom or bust. Backs that are incredibly likely to either go off or do nothing (like DeAngelo) are generally referred to as "inconsistent", whereas backs that reliably score you an average number of points (like SJax) are generally referred to as "consistent".

Also worth noting that DeAngelo's playoff game was another "bust"- 7.9 fantasy points in PPR- which just further highlights how boom or bust DeAngelo was last year.

 

[Lott's Fingertip]

jackson had 3 good games where most of his points came from last year and one was week 17. he had 6 games with 16 points or less, not good at for a high pick in a ppr league.

This is par for the course in fantasy football. Great players get the majority of their points in a few games and do decently the rest of the way. When people are great every week, it's a record breaking season a la LT's 31 TD year. DeAngelo had 6 games under 10 points last year.

That's not to mention that even Jackson's "down" games are much less "down" than that of many other top picks. For instance.

Steven Jackson has had ONE game below six points (even in non-ppr leagues) in the last THREE YEARS.

Michael Turner, a top pick, had FIVE games below six points (even in ppr leagues) LAST YEAR alone.

if you think 10-15 points is decent in a ppr league I would have to disagree. Guys like kevin faulk can get you that. Jackson had 80 points in two games, and only two other games where he scored over 20. Deangelo killed those stats and I only counted 4 games with less than 10...

10.0, 3.5, 6.4, 8.6, 5.5, 14.0. That's two games where DeAngelo fell in the "Guys like Kevin Faulk can get you that" range, and 4 more where he didn't even manage that much.10.4, 14.1, 1.7, 12, 13.9. That's 4 games where Steven Jackson fell in the "guys like Kevin Faulk can get you that" range, and 1 more where he didn't even manage that (that's the game where he was injured in the second quarter).

If below 15 points is a bad game from a stud in PPR, then DeAngelo was essentially as likely to give you a bad game than SJax last year (38% to 42%). If below 10 points is a TERRIBLE game from a stud in PPR, a game not even worthy of a guy like Kevin Faulk, then DeAngelo was significantly more likely to give you a TERRIBLE game last year than SJax (31% to 8%... and that 8% only happened because SJax was injured!). I really, really, really don't understand how you can keep insisting that DeAngelo is a better pick this year because he was more consistent last year. You keep saying that Steven Jackson had a bunch of bad games, and that he scored all of his points in two games... but look at DeAngelo. In fact, here's a breakdown of how each back scored through the season (again, using PPR scoring)

<10

SJax: 1 (8%)

DeAngelo: 4 (25%)

10-14.9

SJax: 4 (33%)

DeAngelo: 2 (13%)

15-19.9

SJax: 3 (25%)

DeAngelo: 2 (13%)

20-24.9

SJax: 1 (8%)

DeAngelo: 4 (25%)

25-29.9

SJax: 1 (8%)

DeAngelo: 0 (0%)

30+

SJax: 2 (17%)

DeAngelo: 4 (25%)

SJax scored fewer than 10 points or more than 30 points 25% of the time. DeAngelo scored fewer than 10 points or more than 30 points a whopping 50% of the time. In other words, DeAngelo was twice as likely to either boom or bust. Backs that are incredibly likely to either go off or do nothing (like DeAngelo) are generally referred to as "inconsistent", whereas backs that reliably score you an average number of points (like SJax) are generally referred to as "consistent".

Also worth noting that DeAngelo's playoff game was another "bust"- 7.9 fantasy points in PPR- which just further highlights how boom or bust DeAngelo was last year.

But, but... the Rams are going to be bad this year. They'll be playing from behind, so Jackson won't get any work at all. He's especially bad in PPR leagues because he hardly catches any balls at all, especially on a team that has no proven targets.

I wouldn't blame anybody for taking Deangelo before Jackson. But Jackson is quite clearly at least in the same tier.

 

[MCguidance]

SSOG probably just convinced me to take Sjax.

 

[meanjoegreen]

Also worth noting that DeAngelo's playoff game was another "bust"- 7.9 fantasy points in PPR- which just further highlights how boom or bust DeAngelo was last year.

Calling DeAngelo a bust in that playoff game is ridiculous. Delhomme didn't give the offense much of a chance to do anything due to his 6 turnovers in that game.

 

[SSOG]

Also worth noting that DeAngelo's playoff game was another "bust"- 7.9 fantasy points in PPR- which just further highlights how boom or bust DeAngelo was last year.

Calling DeAngelo a bust in that playoff game is ridiculous. Delhomme didn't give the offense much of a chance to do anything due to his 6 turnovers in that game.

So? That's one of the risks you run when your RB plays with Jake Delhomme. Besides, to repeat a theme... it's never stopped Steven Jackson. St. Louis turned the ball over 31 times last year, 27th in the league. Carolina turned it over 19, good for 6th in the league. Despite this, Jackson had one <10 point game (a game where he made it halfway through the second quarter), and Williams had 5 (counting the playoffs).

 

[Bayhawks]

but look at DeAngelo. In fact, here's a breakdown of how each back scored through the season (again, using PPR scoring)

<10

SJax: 1 (8%)

DeAngelo: 4 (25%)

10-14.9

SJax: 4 (33%)

DeAngelo: 2 (13%)

15-19.9

SJax: 3 (25%)

DeAngelo: 2 (13%)

20-24.9

SJax: 1 (8%)

DeAngelo: 4 (25%)

25-29.9

SJax: 1 (8%)

DeAngelo: 0 (0%)

30+

SJax: 2 (17%)

DeAngelo: 4 (25%)

SJax scored fewer than 10 points or more than 30 points 25% of the time. DeAngelo scored fewer than 10 points or more than 30 points a whopping 50% of the time. In other words, DeAngelo was twice as likely to either boom or bust. Backs that are incredibly likely to either go off or do nothing (like DeAngelo) are generally referred to as "inconsistent", whereas backs that reliably score you an average number of points (like SJax) are generally referred to as "consistent".

This was excellent analysis, but I have two issue with it.1-I don't like the benchmarks that were set for poor, average, good, great, etc point totals for RBs.

Turner was the 5th RB in PPG last year with 17.6 (PPR scoring). IMO, any game where a back got over 17.6 points should be considered a BOOM game. Furthermore, Portis was Ryan Grant was the 24th ranked PPG RB with 11.2. To me, under 11.2 points should be considered a BUST game. If a RB scores enough points to be a top 5 RB, he's a stud. If a RB doesn't score enough to be a starter (which RB 24 would be in a start 2, 12 team league), he's a bust.

2-Here's the problem I have with referring to Williams as inconsistent. He started off last year slow, and then, as he started to earn more of the carries, the line started to gel, and he hit his stride, he played much better.

Of the 4 games that you noted where he scored less than 10 points, 3 were in the 1st 4 weeks. Of the 2 games that you noted where he scored between 10-14.9, one was in the 1st 4 weeks. Those 1st 4 weeks, Williams averaged about 15 touches/game (rush+rec).

After week 4, Williams played MUCH better. He averaged almost 20 touches/game (rush+rec). From that point on, Williams averaged 23.1 PPG. During that stretch, Williams was:

BUST RB (under 11.2 points)

ONCE

AVERAGE RB (between 11.2 and 17.5 points)

ONCE

BOOM RB (17.6 points and up)

TEN TIMES!!!!!

10/12 games, Williams was a BOOM RB, and only once was he a bust.

That is consistency. Granted, his first 4 games, Williams was a BUST RB, but in my opinion, the fact that he started slow has little to do with his future performance. As he gained more carries, trust of the coaches, confidence, and as the O-line gelled more, he became the model of STUD CONSISTENCY.

 

[omally]

Also worth noting that DeAngelo's playoff game was another "bust"- 7.9 fantasy points in PPR- which just further highlights how boom or bust DeAngelo was last year.

Calling DeAngelo a bust in that playoff game is ridiculous. Delhomme didn't give the offense much of a chance to do anything due to his 6 turnovers in that game.

So? That's one of the risks you run when your RB plays with Jake Delhomme. Besides, to repeat a theme... it's never stopped Steven Jackson. St. Louis turned the ball over 31 times last year, 27th in the league. Carolina turned it over 19, good for 6th in the league. Despite this, Jackson had one <10 point game (a game where he made it halfway through the second quarter), and Williams had 5 (counting the playoffs).

Williams only carried the ball 12 times against the Cardinals in the playoffs. In case you missed that game, the Panthers got down early and pretty much abandoned the run. That wasn't Williams fault.

 

[Jercules]

but look at DeAngelo. In fact, here's a breakdown of how each back scored through the season (again, using PPR scoring)

<10

SJax: 1 (8%)

DeAngelo: 4 (25%)

10-14.9

SJax: 4 (33%)

DeAngelo: 2 (13%)

15-19.9

SJax: 3 (25%)

DeAngelo: 2 (13%)

20-24.9

SJax: 1 (8%)

DeAngelo: 4 (25%)

25-29.9

SJax: 1 (8%)

DeAngelo: 0 (0%)

30+

SJax: 2 (17%)

DeAngelo: 4 (25%)

SJax scored fewer than 10 points or more than 30 points 25% of the time. DeAngelo scored fewer than 10 points or more than 30 points a whopping 50% of the time. In other words, DeAngelo was twice as likely to either boom or bust. Backs that are incredibly likely to either go off or do nothing (like DeAngelo) are generally referred to as "inconsistent", whereas backs that reliably score you an average number of points (like SJax) are generally referred to as "consistent".

This was excellent analysis, but I have two issue with it.1-I don't like the benchmarks that were set for poor, average, good, great, etc point totals for RBs.

Turner was the 5th RB in PPG last year with 17.6 (PPR scoring). IMO, any game where a back got over 17.6 points should be considered a BOOM game. Furthermore, Portis was Ryan Grant was the 24th ranked PPG RB with 11.2. To me, under 11.2 points should be considered a BUST game. If a RB scores enough points to be a top 5 RB, he's a stud. If a RB doesn't score enough to be a starter (which RB 24 would be in a start 2, 12 team league), he's a bust.

2-Here's the problem I have with referring to Williams as inconsistent. He started off last year slow, and then, as he started to earn more of the carries, the line started to gel, and he hit his stride, he played much better.

Of the 4 games that you noted where he scored less than 10 points, 3 were in the 1st 4 weeks. Of the 2 games that you noted where he scored between 10-14.9, one was in the 1st 4 weeks. Those 1st 4 weeks, Williams averaged about 15 touches/game (rush+rec).

After week 4, Williams played MUCH better. He averaged almost 20 touches/game (rush+rec). From that point on, Williams averaged 23.1 PPG. During that stretch, Williams was:

BUST RB (under 11.2 points)

ONCE

AVERAGE RB (between 11.2 and 17.5 points)

ONCE

BOOM RB (17.6 points and up)

TEN TIMES!!!!!

10/12 games, Williams was a BOOM RB, and only once was he a bust.

That is consistency. Granted, his first 4 games, Williams was a BUST RB, but in my opinion, the fact that he started slow has little to do with his future performance. As he gained more carries, trust of the coaches, confidence, and as the O-line gelled more, he became the model of STUD CONSISTENCY.

This is the question. If you look strictly at the last half of '08 for Williams, he's far and away the top back available. I think of him and Carolina as the next Priest Holmes and KC.

 

[abe froman]

I will make it simple: SJax is an elite player WHEN HE IS IN. FACT IS HE HAS A HISTORY OF MISSING 4 GAMES EACH OF THE LAST 2 YEARS. Im going to draft the one that HAS NOT missed 4 games in each of the past 2 seasons, has a HORRIBLE OLine, and no other offensive talent around him -Including the QB. You drink the kool-aide all you want, and keep trying to sell the 3rd best RB all you want. Im in 3 different leagues with 3 different scoring setups:

1. PPR, 1PT/10YDS, -2 fumbles

2. PPR, 1PT/20YDS, -2 fumbles

3. NON PPR, 1PT/10YDS, -2 fumbles

*IN EACH OF THESE HE DID NO BETTER THAN 9TH!!! There's 7-8 RB's I would not recommend passing on for SJax, but he is a 1st round talent and on another team maybe that list shortens even more -fact is he is in STL. In a fantasy schedule 4 games missed is 25% of the da/v\n schedule!!

My problemn with SSOG is when he spews his nonsense he states it as an open and shut case and usually without facts.

**FBG 2008 STANDINGS(Since you like to pimp their standings every other word to make your comments sound official)

13 RB Jackson, Steven STL 12 254 1043 7 40 379 1 3 190.2 <the 13 would be his rank..surprise..for noone

3 RB Jackson, Steven STL 12 254 1043 7 40 379 1 3 190.2 15.85 <here he finished 3rd not counting the games he couldnt start which Im sure noone is worried about going forward.

SSOG is basically saying "so what if you will be screwed 25% of the season, when he's in you've got a stud. MJD finished 12th if you want to use those figures. Id love to hear how many people would pass on MOJO for SJax... this this thinking is flawed, am Im sorry for those that think this noise makes any sense.

 

[SSOG]

Also worth noting that DeAngelo's playoff game was another "bust"- 7.9 fantasy points in PPR- which just further highlights how boom or bust DeAngelo was last year.

Calling DeAngelo a bust in that playoff game is ridiculous. Delhomme didn't give the offense much of a chance to do anything due to his 6 turnovers in that game.

So? That's one of the risks you run when your RB plays with Jake Delhomme. Besides, to repeat a theme... it's never stopped Steven Jackson. St. Louis turned the ball over 31 times last year, 27th in the league. Carolina turned it over 19, good for 6th in the league. Despite this, Jackson had one <10 point game (a game where he made it halfway through the second quarter), and Williams had 5 (counting the playoffs).

Williams only carried the ball 12 times against the Cardinals in the playoffs. In case you missed that game, the Panthers got down early and pretty much abandoned the run. That wasn't Williams fault.

In case you missed last season, the Rams *ALWAYS* got down early. That wasn't Jackson's fault, either. DeAngelo had terrible fantasy numbers that game because his team was getting beat early and badly. SJax had awesome fantasy numbers despite the fact that his team was always getting beat early and badly.

 

[abe froman]

Also worth noting that DeAngelo's playoff game was another "bust"- 7.9 fantasy points in PPR- which just further highlights how boom or bust DeAngelo was last year.

Calling DeAngelo a bust in that playoff game is ridiculous. Delhomme didn't give the offense much of a chance to do anything due to his 6 turnovers in that game.

AGREED! Is anyone seriously buying this BS?? Delhomme is far from a quality QB but a game like that with those INT's will happen at the same frequency as a lunar eclipse. Does DeWill score 20TD's again?..99% positive he will not. Can he score 12-15TD's?? most definately. STL's line has severly declined since SJax's amazing 06 where he caught 90 balls and all the SJax top 3 love began..gimme a break

 

[SSOG]

I will make it simple: SJax is an elite player WHEN HE IS IN. FACT IS HE HAS A HISTORY OF MISSING 4 GAMES EACH OF THE LAST 2 YEARS. Im going to draft the one that HAS NOT missed 4 games in each of the past 2 seasons, has a HORRIBLE OLine, and no other offensive talent around him -Including the QB. You drink the kool-aide all you want, and keep trying to sell the 3rd best RB all you want. Im in 3 different leagues with 3 different scoring setups:1. PPR, 1PT/10YDS, -2 fumbles2. PPR, 1PT/20YDS, -2 fumbles3. NON PPR, 1PT/10YDS, -2 fumbles*IN EACH OF THESE HE DID NO BETTER THAN 9TH!!! There's 7-8 RB's I would not recommend passing on for SJax, but he is a 1st round talent and on another team maybe that list shortens even more -fact is he is in STL. In a fantasy schedule 4 games missed is 25% of the da/v\n schedule!! My problemn with SSOG is when he spews his nonsense he states it as an open and shut case and usually without facts. **FBG 2008 STANDINGS(Since you like to pimp their standings every other word to make your comments sound official)13 RB Jackson, Steven STL 12 254 1043 7 40 379 1 3 190.2 <the 13 would be his rank..surprise..for noone3 RB Jackson, Steven STL 12 254 1043 7 40 379 1 3 190.2 15.85 <here he finished 3rd not counting the games he couldnt start which Im sure noone is worried about going forward. SSOG is basically saying "so what if you will be screwed 25% of the season, when he's in you've got a stud. MJD finished 12th if you want to use those figures. Id love to hear how many people would pass on MOJO for SJax... this this thinking is flawed, am Im sorry for those that think this noise makes any sense.

Did any of those leagues have a rule that said if your starting RB was hurt, you had to take a 0 at the position, or did they all let you start another RB that wasn't hurt in his place? Kevin Faulk finished 33rd last year in points per game at 9.01. If you had started Kevin Faulk in those four weeks that Steven Jackson missed, then you could expect 36 points over those four weeks. Add 36 points to SJax's 190.2 totals on the season and the RB position would have scored you 226.2 fantasy points, which would have ranked 6th overall, behind Williams, Turner, Peterson, Forte, and Thomas Jones. This means that, unless you're in a league that forces you to take a 0 when your starting RB is injured, or unless you couldn't get an RB3 as good as Kevin Freaking Faulk (non-PPR), then SJax was still a stud.Far be it from me to back my "nonsense" up with facts, though.

 

[easyee]

Once again, all my numbers were official FBGs scoring + 1 ppr. SJax scored 190.2 points, +40 points for his 40 receptions = 230.2 points, divided by 12 games = 19.18 ppg. DeAngelo = (283.9 + 22)/16 = 19.12. Turner = (276 + 6)/16 = 17.63. Bush = (120.4 + 52)/16 = 17.24. Peterson = (248.2 + 21)/16 = 16.83. Thomas Jones = (241.9 + 36)/16 = 17.39. Steve Slaton = (225.9 + 50)/16 = 17.24. You might notice that every single one of these figures is lower than Jackson's 19.18. Heck, so far, only DeAngelo has managed to even come within a point and a half of SJax's per-game totals.

I did miss Westbrook, though. Westy = (217.8 + 54)/14 = 19.41. Also, I already mentioned Forte- (243.5 + 64)/16 = 19.22, which is more than SJax scored. Again, these are all official FBG scores based on the official FBG scoring rules taken from the official FBGs site and posted on the official FBGs message board (and are therefore probably more relevant than whatever results you had in your MFL league whose scoring system we don't even know).

One final time, here are the PPG totals of all those RBs you listed using the official FBGs point totals, adding one point per reception, and dividing by number of games to get PPG.

Brian Westbrook - 19.41

Matt Forte - 19.22

Steven Jackson - 19.18

DeAngelo Williams - 19.12

Michael Turner - 17.63

Thomas Jones - 17.39

Steve Slaton - 17.24

Reggie Bush - 17.24

Adrian Peterson - 16.83

Edit: Beaten by Lott's Fingertip. Imagine what he could do if he had 9 other fingers!

Those bolded parts right there are the deinition of misleading statistics. If we all played 12 games in our fantasy season, sure SJAX would have been 2nd in average PPG total. However, we all usually play 16-17 weeks in fantasy, and if you change that divisor to 16, SJAX's AVERAGE PPG/1 games would be about 14. If you don't mind having a back-up RB for 5 weeks, then go for SJAX. Otherwise, take the guy that can stay healthy and put up high PPG.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

How many every-down backs are left in the NFL? Guys who have nobody behind them stealing carries? I know it's popular to rationalize how we want our starter "kept fresh" by having another back...but who didn't love having Marshall Faulk and seeing him in there at the end of blowouts, etc?

Steven Jackson is one of the last all-purpose backs. He's in on every down. He catches passes. He's the goal-line back. There's nobody who the team wants to make room for in the backfield.

The downside? He's an injury risk. No question. But as much as I like DWill (drafted him and won a title in one league last year, and CUT him like a moron in another early in the season) I'm concerned that he'll be fighting for time on the field even if he's healthy. If he starts out slow or average and Stewart comes on strong, why wouldn't they split time? Last year was last year. But if SJ starts out slow...they stick with him.

Plus, St. Louis is in a weak conference. Granted, the Rams are a reason the conference is weak but I see some shootouts this season.

I know it's speculation and there are great arguments against him and for DWill, but I'll take the every-down workhorse over the guy who's looking over his shoulder.

 

[Billy1x]

Would have said DW until I read about all the changes they made to bring back the top end fullback and lineman to duplicate the performance he had several years ago. Better blocking means less chance of injury. Probably depends on how well Stewarts achilles is.

 

[MCguidance]

Once again, all my numbers were official FBGs scoring + 1 ppr. SJax scored 190.2 points, +40 points for his 40 receptions = 230.2 points, divided by 12 games = 19.18 ppg. DeAngelo = (283.9 + 22)/16 = 19.12. Turner = (276 + 6)/16 = 17.63. Bush = (120.4 + 52)/16 = 17.24. Peterson = (248.2 + 21)/16 = 16.83. Thomas Jones = (241.9 + 36)/16 = 17.39. Steve Slaton = (225.9 + 50)/16 = 17.24. You might notice that every single one of these figures is lower than Jackson's 19.18. Heck, so far, only DeAngelo has managed to even come within a point and a half of SJax's per-game totals.

I did miss Westbrook, though. Westy = (217.8 + 54)/14 = 19.41. Also, I already mentioned Forte- (243.5 + 64)/16 = 19.22, which is more than SJax scored. Again, these are all official FBG scores based on the official FBG scoring rules taken from the official FBGs site and posted on the official FBGs message board (and are therefore probably more relevant than whatever results you had in your MFL league whose scoring system we don't even know).

One final time, here are the PPG totals of all those RBs you listed using the official FBGs point totals, adding one point per reception, and dividing by number of games to get PPG.

Brian Westbrook - 19.41

Matt Forte - 19.22

Steven Jackson - 19.18

DeAngelo Williams - 19.12

Michael Turner - 17.63

Thomas Jones - 17.39

Steve Slaton - 17.24

Reggie Bush - 17.24

Adrian Peterson - 16.83

Edit: Beaten by Lott's Fingertip. Imagine what he could do if he had 9 other fingers!

Those bolded parts right there are the deinition of misleading statistics. If we all played 12 games in our fantasy season, sure SJAX would have been 2nd in average PPG total. However, we all usually play 16-17 weeks in fantasy, and if you change that divisor to 17, SJAX's AVERAGE PPG/17 games would be 13.54. If you don't mind having a back-up RB for 5 weeks, then go for SJAX. Otherwise, take the guy that can stay healthy and put up high PPG.

He is giving you a per game average? Why in the world would he factor in games he missed? He's saying that when on the field his stats show top 5 production, how can that be debated? If you want to debate injuries, that's something entirely different. How can you say that if we played 12 games everyone would have that high average when youd have to take away points? Why in the world would you divide his total number by 16 when he played 12 games? If you divide by 16 you need to have 16 games worth of stats? I really hope you misunderstand him because this is just unfathomable logic.