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Why are President Trump's Tax Returns Important? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter supermike80
- Start date
The General
Footballguy
Tax cheats are hilarious!The fact that this is still one of the top PSF threads is absolute gold.
The Commish
Footballguy
Hallmark of a brilliant business man according to some here....I mean EVERYONE has losses like this at the course they own.
dozer
Footballguy
July 30, 2021
Ways and Means Committee’s Request for the Former President’s Tax Returns
U.S. Code, vests the congressional tax committees with a broad right to receive tax information from the Department of the Treasury.
The committees, however, cannot compel the Executive Branch to disclose such information without satisfying the constitutional requirement that the information could serve a legitimate legislative purpose.
In assessing whether requested information could serve a legitimate legislative purpose, the Executive Branch must give due weight to Congress’s status as a co-equal branch of government.
Like courts, therefore, Executive Branch officials must apply a pre- sumption that Legislative Branch officials act in good faith and in furtherance of legit- imate objectives.
The Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee has invoked sufficient reasons for requesting the former President’s tax information. Under section 6103(f )(1), Treasury must furnish the information to the Committee.
Ways and Means Committee’s Request for the Former President’s Tax Returns
U.S. Code, vests the congressional tax committees with a broad right to receive tax information from the Department of the Treasury.
The committees, however, cannot compel the Executive Branch to disclose such information without satisfying the constitutional requirement that the information could serve a legitimate legislative purpose.
In assessing whether requested information could serve a legitimate legislative purpose, the Executive Branch must give due weight to Congress’s status as a co-equal branch of government.
Like courts, therefore, Executive Branch officials must apply a pre- sumption that Legislative Branch officials act in good faith and in furtherance of legit- imate objectives.
The Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee has invoked sufficient reasons for requesting the former President’s tax information. Under section 6103(f )(1), Treasury must furnish the information to the Committee.
The DOJ just ordered the Treasury Dept. to release Trump's tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee.
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supermike80
Footballguy
Impeach!!The DOJ just ordered the Treasury Dept. to release Trump's tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee.
squistion
Footballguy
House Ways and Means Chair Neal:The DOJ just ordered the Treasury Dept. to release Trump's tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee.
"As I have maintained for years, the Committee's case is very strong and the law is on our side. I am glad that the Department of Justice agrees and that we can move forward."
Speaker Pelosi:
"Today, the Biden Administration has delivered a victory for the rule of law." "The American people deserve to know the facts of his troubling conflicts of interest and undermining of our security and democracy as president."
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Does the fact that he is no longer President make it easier for Trump to be less protected against these type of things?
Sand
Footballguy
Well, he's certainly not protected by Presidential immunity anymore. On the other hand, he's now immune from impeachment.
psychobillies
Footballguy
Why do I have a feeling that Biden is going to regret this if a Republican wins in 24?House Ways and Means Chair Neal:
"As I have maintained for years, the Committee's case is very strong and the law is on our side. I am glad that the Department of Justice agrees and that we can move forward."
Speaker Pelosi:
"Today, the Biden Administration has delivered a victory for the rule of law." "The American people deserve to know the facts of his troubling conflicts of interest and undermining of our security and democracy as president."
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
dozer
Footballguy
Sand
Footballguy
Running, no. That ball of ego is already rolling that way and I doubt it stops for anything. Of being successful? Yes. IMO, of course.
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Not sure if this has been posted before, but this website is very cool, showing tax returns of former presidents and presidential candidates going all the way back to FDR. The old-timey ones are neat. Often written out by hand, the ones showing the names and rents paid of tenants in buildings owned by FDR is super cool.
Anyway, I was surprised to learn that two pages of former President Trump's 2005 tax return appear on this site. I vaguely recall that it had been leaked or maybe a journalist stumbled upon it, not sure. It shows (and does not show) some interesting things, some minor tidbits while others are holes ripe for investigation. For example, Mr Trump donated $3 to the election campaign fund but his spouse (a woman named "Melanija") did not. At the end, the names of the tax preparers are redacted--not sure if that is SOP or unusual. More substantively, the form indicates $9 million in taxable interest, $42 million in business income, $67 million in rents, and $32 million in capital gains. But the hole for which I'd love more info is on line 21 with "other income" indicating a loss of $105 million and a note to see "statement 1" which is not included.
The rest is pretty standard stuff albeit with large numbers: $31 million in taxable income with total tax bill of about $38 million (due to the alternate minimum tax, oof). The vast bulk of that money was paid from carryover money from 2004 or prior and also a request for extension, with out of pocket amounting to about $2 million.
I'm no tax guy so might be missing other notable things.
Anyway, I was surprised to learn that two pages of former President Trump's 2005 tax return appear on this site. I vaguely recall that it had been leaked or maybe a journalist stumbled upon it, not sure. It shows (and does not show) some interesting things, some minor tidbits while others are holes ripe for investigation. For example, Mr Trump donated $3 to the election campaign fund but his spouse (a woman named "Melanija") did not. At the end, the names of the tax preparers are redacted--not sure if that is SOP or unusual. More substantively, the form indicates $9 million in taxable interest, $42 million in business income, $67 million in rents, and $32 million in capital gains. But the hole for which I'd love more info is on line 21 with "other income" indicating a loss of $105 million and a note to see "statement 1" which is not included.
The rest is pretty standard stuff albeit with large numbers: $31 million in taxable income with total tax bill of about $38 million (due to the alternate minimum tax, oof). The vast bulk of that money was paid from carryover money from 2004 or prior and also a request for extension, with out of pocket amounting to about $2 million.
I'm no tax guy so might be missing other notable things.
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GoBirds
Footballguy
How is this a “bomb”? To make a statement like that when you are “no tax guy” just oozes of more examples of those obsessed with convicting Trump and still desperately searching to create a crime.
Joe Mammy
Footballguy
Shula-holic
Footballguy
Can we get an over/under to how long it takes for the first "leak" to shockingly show up?
It is a net operating loss carryover, which are losses from previous years which he was unable to overset gains with. The statement 1 really is not going to tell you much except track which year he had carryover losses from and if he still has any leftover to carry to the next year. Tax returns really don't provide detailed insight into a person's finances.
GoBirds
Footballguy
It’s sad the lack of understanding of tax returns and what info you think you found in your “got him this time!”s. @jon_mx explains it well above and just common sense off the timeline would tell you this time period coincides with the fall of Atlantic City. Good luck with your “whole bomb”.
Since you say there is a lack of understanding of tax returns, how can you say jon_mx explains it well? Wouldn't the lack of understanding part apply to jon and you too?It’s sad the lack of understanding of tax returns and what info you think you found in your “got him this time!”s. @jon_mx explains it well above and just common sense off the timeline would tell you this time period coincides with the fall of Atlantic City. Good luck with your “whole bomb”.
parrot
Footballguy
They could tell you how the NOL came about and what types of items it encompasses. How much of it was an abandonment loss, and was it really abandonment? Or did he receive something in return for the supposed abandonment, as has been reported, which would turn it into a capital loss (capped at $3k a year carryover) and not an NOL. How much of it was depreciation and was depreciation properly handled? His returns could also shed light on whether his debt restructuring was properly claimed as income when required. This is just scratching the surface of things you can learn from the tax returns of someone like Trump. He didn't fight it all the way to the supreme court because there's nothing to be learned from them.
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GoBirds
Footballguy
I would read back through the thread Tim, you will see the pattern and great info shared to help you all understand if you weren’t just looking to convict and find a crime later.
parrot
Footballguy
GoBirds
Footballguy
parrot
Footballguy
I didn't say anything about a crime. I just pointed that there is far more to be gleaned from a tax return than certain people would like to have us believe, like the types of items I mentioned, and many many more. You're the one who seems desperate, to the point you have to twist what other people say.
parrot
Footballguy
I'm a corporate accountant, and we always make a profit, so no I haven't. But if you're telling me there's no supporting documentation for a NOL then I'm going to say you're the one talking out you ###. You don't get to just make up a number and call it an NOL. It is comprised of items that allow you to arrive at an NOL. Those items, like depreciation, can tell you a lot. Not every NOL is going to have an abandonment loss, but when it does it's reported on form 4797. And debt restructure absolutely is taxable in certain cases. If you've filed NOLs you know this full well. Please stop trying to make everyone dumber.
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What is required for the statement is an accounting of the tax year of where the NOL came from. It is a spreadsheet which will show how the NOL was carried back and how much was consumed each year and how much remains for the current year. The poster was making hay over how much info will be on Statement 1, but all it will be is a spreadsheet of numbers and tax years.
parrot
Footballguy
I was responding to your general statement
"Tax returns really don't provide detailed insight into a person's finances."
Sorry if that was unclear.
The loss carryforward and back isn't really all that informative. How the original NOL was arrived at could be very informative. That's the point.
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massraider
Footballguy
Really getting into the weeds here.
Isn't it agreed? He just doesn't want people to know what he really makes. He's a little embarrassed.
I could see him being embarrassed enough so that, when they finally come out, at his next rally, he starts bragging about how he loves flying to the Cayman Islands to visit his money, if you catch his drift.
Then like a month later, Farenthold wins another Pulitzer for reporting that Trump has never been to the Cayman Islands, and has one offshore account with $37 in it.
Isn't it agreed? He just doesn't want people to know what he really makes. He's a little embarrassed.
I could see him being embarrassed enough so that, when they finally come out, at his next rally, he starts bragging about how he loves flying to the Cayman Islands to visit his money, if you catch his drift.
Then like a month later, Farenthold wins another Pulitzer for reporting that Trump has never been to the Cayman Islands, and has one offshore account with $37 in it.
GoBirds
Footballguy
For as long as the ranting has gone on for his tax returns how much longer once they get it and realize it proves nothing will we have to hear about “supporting documentation “ like they are entitled to that too? Can’t make this stuff up.
parrot
Footballguy
The "supporting documentation" in question would be the original tax returns where the NOL was arrived at. HTH.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
For me the reason why Trump not releasing his tax records mattered was the fact that all presidential candidates do it and Trump made a big deal of Romney not releasing his right away (he eventually did). You don't get to call someone out for something that you won't do. Complete jerk move on the part of the ex-Pres but after more than five years of Trump's countless classless moves and transgressions it does seem like small potatoes now.
GoBirds
Footballguy
Ok update when return is released and you all aren’t calling to statement XYZ to continue down this rabbit hole. TIA.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
Why? Are you really concerned if he scammed on his taxes and is charged with anything? I don't believe that would bother most of the Trump supporters.
This is where I am. Who knows whether info on his tax returns will be relevant or innocuous, or indicate potential criminal activity. We don't know. He stated very clearly that he would release his tax returns yet never has. It's beyond jerkiness, it was a bald-faced lie. Of course politicians lie, I get that. I don't think they should be allowed to do it with impunity, though.
Link for those that like links
2014: ""If I decide to run for office, I'll produce my tax returns, absolutely," he said. "And I would love to do that.""
supermike80
Footballguy
I will say, the focus you guys have on his tax returns is bizarre.
You have a 10 foot tall list of reasons why Trump was a bad President, a bad American, and just an overall bad guy, but somehow you need those darn tax returns to really get you over the hump.
The General
Footballguy
Pretty simple for me. He said he'd love to show em. He said I'll do it when Obama dos his birth certificate, he said he's very proud of them, etc.
Now it's "Political Prosection" or a never ending audit and he fights it every step of the way.
Let's see the goods.
supermike80
Footballguy
That, in a nutshell, is TDS.
You got what you wanted..Trump out of office, your guy in. Yet you still obsess over something like this because he said he would. This is the textbook example of how that moniker came into existence.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
And who is “focusing” on the returns? Its a story given recent events. Its a story given the issues with his business
That doesn’t mean anyone is taking much time on here to focus in the things. No more than others are taking time to complain about people talking about them and laughing or crying towards their posts.
That doesn’t mean anyone is taking much time on here to focus in the things. No more than others are taking time to complain about people talking about them and laughing or crying towards their posts.
The General
Footballguy
Well I disagree that him being out of office means he is off scot-free. This was the bull#### argument that likely kept him from being impeached for Jan 6th which he 100% should have been.
But regardless this was my first post in here in like 10 months.
Ways and Means wants to see them, Treasury says they will release them. Let's see em.
Dude is running again so we'll get to hear all these excuses again in 3 years
GoBirds
Footballguy
He’s been out of office how long now and they still can’t move on? Still desperate to manufacture a crime.
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The General
Footballguy
Trump's treasury department refuses to release them because it was "partisan", Trump as President intervened to stop Congress from seeing them. A court says that he needs to produce them now.
He’s been out of office how long now and they still can’t move on? Still desperate to manufacture a crime.
The timing is of his doing.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Who is talking about a crime here?
He’s been out of office how long now and they still can’t move on? Still desperate to manufacture a crime.
Also...he has been out of office how long now and we still have Maricopa County "forensic" audits and this man claiming he will be reinstated and asking other states for audits? Including talk from Kevin McCarthy? Why can't the Republican party move on?
The guy is still the head of the party...there are still issues with his finances it seems that the courts and DOJ deem are pertinent. Why not let that play out in the legal system as it should?
yak651
Footballguy
The same people talking about Bengahzi and emails now talking about letting things go and moving on
Amused to Death
Footballguy
If you haven't heard, he's going to be re-instated in about 10 days.
He’s been out of office how long now and they still can’t move on? Still desperate to manufacture a crime.
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