Why are used car salesmen such asses? (1 Viewer)

[Dragons]

Everywhere I read always including this thread says to not focus on the payment but on the price. Why? I want to lease a new car for 36 months with $2,500 out of pocket. I've done research to determine what I believe is a good monthly payment. I negotiation with several dealers over the monthly payment. How is this bad?

A payment of $20-25 extra a month may not sound like much, but over 36 payments, including interest, it's over a grand more for the dealer.

Sure, but where in my post did I say I was looking to pay $25 more per month.

If you're buying, it's much easier for the dealer to hide a higher interest rate, or extend the length of the loan, while lowering your monthly payment, if you're only negotiating the payment. If you negotiate price, and know your interest rate and term (i.e. you have a pre-negotiated loan lined up), the payment is simply math. Calculate that before going in to get an idea.If you're leasing, it's a bit different. You normally negotiate monthly payment, but you need to know the money factor and the residual value to backtrack what you're paying for the car.

 

[djmich]

Everywhere I read always including this thread says to not focus on the payment but on the price. Why? I want to lease a new car for 36 months with $2,500 out of pocket. I've done research to determine what I believe is a good monthly payment. I negotiation with several dealers over the monthly payment. How is this bad?

A payment of $20-25 extra a month may not sound like much, but over 36 payments, including interest, it's over a grand more for the dealer.

Sure, but where in my post did I say I was looking to pay $25 more per month.

If you're buying, it's much easier for the dealer to hide a higher interest rate, or extend the length of the loan, while lowering your monthly payment, if you're only negotiating the payment. If you negotiate price, and know your interest rate and term (i.e. you have a pre-negotiated loan lined up), the payment is simply math. Calculate that before going in to get an idea.If you're leasing, it's a bit different. You normally negotiate monthly payment, but you need to know the money factor and the residual value to backtrack what you're paying for the car.

Yeah, I agree with this. Whether you are leasing or buying you need to have all the facts in any negotiation. To me the benefit of negotiating on the monthly payment is that there is no other negotiation. What is the point of negotiating purchase price if you are just going to have to negotiate interest rates or residuals after that.Monthly payment, lowest bidder wins, I don't care how you get there (price, rate, residual).

 

[renesauz]

Everywhere I read always including this thread says to not focus on the payment but on the price. Why? I want to lease a new car for 36 months with $2,500 out of pocket. I've done research to determine what I believe is a good monthly payment. I negotiation with several dealers over the monthly payment. How is this bad?

Not as big a deal on a lease....as long as you know what's what (which most don't when leasing)It's a huge deal on a purchase. Pay too much atention to the payment, and you might not notice until you're in the box (business office to sign final papers) that they went to 75 months on you. You might get excited about the car or the fact that the payment is right but forget about how your credit card bill is going up $200/mo. because of the 3k they talked you into to get to your payment.For most of us, the payment is the most important thing. That's why dealers and astute salesman concetrate on it. If the payment is too highfor the budget, the customer is unlikely to buy. BUT...by concentrating on the payment, you can lose sight of the price.I've had tons of customers come in completely unaware of special manufacturer deals/financing. They knew that at X% from there bank, they could barely buy the car they wanted at a payment they could afford. Then we switch them to factory financing, and drop the payment $90. They neglect to observe that they're 6 months longer at a price $600 higher then they came in for.That's why I suggested you estimate your rate/payment parameters at your bank, but concentrate on the sales price at the dealership.

 

[renesauz]

Everywhere I read always including this thread says to not focus on the payment but on the price. Why? I want to lease a new car for 36 months with $2,500 out of pocket. I've done research to determine what I believe is a good monthly payment. I negotiation with several dealers over the monthly payment. How is this bad?

A payment of $20-25 extra a month may not sound like much, but over 36 payments, including interest, it's over a grand more for the dealer.

Sure, but where in my post did I say I was looking to pay $25 more per month.

If you're buying, it's much easier for the dealer to hide a higher interest rate, or extend the length of the loan, while lowering your monthly payment, if you're only negotiating the payment. If you negotiate price, and know your interest rate and term (i.e. you have a pre-negotiated loan lined up), the payment is simply math. Calculate that before going in to get an idea.If you're leasing, it's a bit different. You normally negotiate monthly payment, but you need to know the money factor and the residual value to backtrack what you're paying for the car.

Yeah, I agree with this. Whether you are leasing or buying you need to have all the facts in any negotiation. To me the benefit of negotiating on the monthly payment is that there is no other negotiation. What is the point of negotiating purchase price if you are just going to have to negotiate interest rates or residuals after that.Monthly payment, lowest bidder wins, I don't care how you get there (price, rate, residual).

Most people think like this. But what if I put you on a bank that does 96 month loans? I mean...so what if the rate is 2 points higher...your payment is $20 lower!

 

[Marvelous]

Everywhere I read always including this thread says to not focus on the payment but on the price. Why? I want to lease a new car for 36 months with $2,500 out of pocket. I've done research to determine what I believe is a good monthly payment. I negotiation with several dealers over the monthly payment. How is this bad?

A payment of $20-25 extra a month may not sound like much, but over 36 payments, including interest, it's over a grand more for the dealer.

Sure, but where in my post did I say I was looking to pay $25 more per month.

The average person will buy more when focusing on payments only. $25 per month more may not sound like something worth negotiating over, but $800 on the purchase price sounds big. I think as long as your know the other variables are staying constant (i.e. 36 month lease), you are probably ok.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I was out for about 4 hours looking today and the one thing that really pisses me off whether you are a dealer, or a private seller...is you trying to sell me a car that is really dirty on the inside. The salesman at two different lots told me that the cars would be detailed after I made my purchase but why don't they clean them beforehand? Do they realize that a clean car for a person who knows nothing about cars is almost everything? I mean come on, that's just dumb.

Anyway a lot of these cars had defects like leaks, broken windshield wipers, bad ball joints, etc. I'd comment on them and the guy would say "wow I didn't notice that" or just ignore me. This worries me on buying a vehicle from one of these lots. If there are a bunch of defects I notice, what are the ones I'm not seeing? There are some good deals out there and I looked closely at a few but I'm not a mechanic so I worry a bit even if I know more than most about cars.

I found one I am pretty interested in and the guy asked about financing which I told him I already had. He quoted me a price of $9600 to begin and after I told him about the financing he dropped it to $8900 just like that. I didn't even press him, I just stated I had financing. I'm gonna run the VIN and see what I get back but it has 90k miles on it and besides the inside being a little messy, it looked and ran great.

I also went to Carmax for the first time and they have a pretty smooth operation over there. I think they had some fair deals and some stuff that was overpriced but the most of the cars were detailed, very clean, and the presentation was great. Saw two or three I was interested in but I didn't have a lot of time so I'll go back later this week to get a better look and maybe take a test drive if I really like something. Not sure I'll go this route though since I'm sure I can get a better deal elsewhere but it is an option.

 

[Walton Goggins]

I was out for about 4 hours looking today and the one thing that really pisses me off whether you are a dealer, or a private seller...is you trying to sell me a car that is really dirty on the inside. The salesman at two different lots told me that the cars would be detailed after I made my purchase but why don't they clean them beforehand? Do they realize that a clean car for a person who knows nothing about cars is almost everything? I mean come on, that's just dumb.

Anyway a lot of these cars had defects like leaks, broken windshield wipers, bad ball joints, etc. I'd comment on them and the guy would say "wow I didn't notice that" or just ignore me. This worries me on buying a vehicle from one of these lots. If there are a bunch of defects I notice, what are the ones I'm not seeing? There are some good deals out there and I looked closely at a few but I'm not a mechanic so I worry a bit even if I know more than most about cars.

I found one I am pretty interested in and the guy asked about financing which I told him I already had. He quoted me a price of $9600 to begin and after I told him about the financing he dropped it to $8900 just like that. I didn't even press him, I just stated I had financing. I'm gonna run the VIN and see what I get back but it has 90k miles on it and besides the inside being a little messy, it looked and ran great.

I also went to Carmax for the first time and they have a pretty smooth operation over there. I think they had some fair deals and some stuff that was overpriced but the most of the cars were detailed, very clean, and the presentation was great. Saw two or three I was interested in but I didn't have a lot of time so I'll go back later this week to get a better look and maybe take a test drive if I really like something. Not sure I'll go this route though since I'm sure I can get a better deal elsewhere but it is an option.

I wouldn't buy a car from someone/dealer who didn't keep the cars clean and had no clue about the condition of the cars.

 

[Enforcer]

Wife and I bought a used Nissan Frontier this past year. There were several key steps that helped us to walk away from the whole thing feeling pretty good.

1. We researched the crap out of four door pickups and found out exactly which model we wanted ahead of time. We used online ratings and consumer reports to help us narrow it down to one vehicle.

2. We used the Capital One blank check for our loan to get the financing out of the way ahead of time.

3. We used online listings to locate all the Nissan Frontiers within a 200 mile radius and picked a Saturday to go to four dealers that had the truck we wanted. **

4. We were very straight forward with the dealer. Followed the following steps with each dealer.

a. Told them we were buying a truck today.

b. Asked them for a business card, and to write down their best price on it.

c. Told them we were going to three other dealers and repeating the same process with each.

d. Told them we would not buy a truck until we had been to all four dealers.

We followed our plan to a T and it worked well. One of the dealers wanted nothing to do with us. The other three cooperated and we ended up buying a truck at a price we were happy with.

** Note: Online prices were always WAY less than the price they stuck in the window, but each dealer was always willing to honor the online price. Not that it really mattered because we were going to make them bid against each other anyway.

 

[Chiwawa]

Always looking to expand my knowledge base as a salesman, I came across this website and thought it would be of interest here.

Negotiating to buy a new car

 

[Doctor Detroit]

After looking for a few weeks I finally settled on a no-haggle dealership that offered very good cars (some mechanically certified) and compete with carmax in mind. All the vehicles I saw were about what carmax had but were cheaper, the service was excellent, and they always had a ton of people on the lot. It is one of the bigger dealerships in the area and I liked the salesman who was a 70 year old guy who used to manage BMW/Mercedes dealerships and works part-time in retirement.

So what I did was give the guy what I was looking for (small SUV like Hyundai Tucson, Toyota Matrix, Hyundai Santa Fe, Ford Escape, Mazda Tribute) and then let him look around. I also kept looking and looking but I was always one day late with these cars and it was getting frustrating. So my salesman called me every day and had me going to different dealerships this company owns. I tried a Saturn Vue, A Ford Escape, and a Jeep Liberty but I either didn't like the ride (Saturn), the price (Escape), or the maintenance report from Consumer Reports (Jeep). But I told the guy I wasn't in any hurry but of course he wanted my sale so he kept working. On Friday he called and said he had a Honda CRV in my price range, that was a good looking car, that had a 12 month bumper to bumper certified factory warranty and 2 years left on the powertrain (I hadn't even considered a CRV because everything in my price range had 100k+ miles on it). I got the price, went to NADA, KBB, and to cars dot com to compare prices for CRVs with similar mileage/equipment/options/etc and it seemed I was getting a very fair price. Maybe a little too fair for a Honda with a certified warranty.

So I went to check it out and it was nice. The engine looked and sounded brand new, the guy kept a maintenance record and he had religiously done the maintenance at the dealer and I saw every transaction, and the inside of the car was spotless. Not spotless like detailed by the dealer spotless, but spotless like the guy who had it washed and vacuumed every week.

Car had normal miles on it for this area, rode well, and was pretty much exactly what I was looking for. The only think I saw remotely wrong with the vehicle was that it had a lot of small scratches around the door handles and on the door, a couple of door dings, and three or four tree syrup spots. I think this is why they were selling it at "other than excellent" because there really was no other reasons given what I listed above. I bought it and I used some Mother's Oxidation/scratch wax and got about half of that junk out already.

I didn't steal the car but I think I got a good deal for me. They got the car on trade-in on Tuesday from a guy who bought a brad new CRV so they probably made 4k or so on the deal and the car sat in their lot for less than 4 hours. I think everyone won.

In the end I went to about ten dealerships, test drove six vehicles, looked at 50 others, and searched probably a thousand vehicles on-line. I looked at all the Consumer Reports ratings, whittled down my vehicle list to six or seven models and years, and told myself I wasn't going to buy anything I wasn't damn sure about. I think knowing what dealers are asking for all over and comparing that to what you want and what is available is the best move. Problem is in my area a good small SUV in good condition and in my price range was hard to find so having a hard working salesman looking for me helped. I think going to no haggle dealerships and knowing all the particulars is the way to go because no one is fooling anyone.

The only thing I feel dirty about in all of this is I really wanted an American car (Ford) but I just couldn't find the right fit. I now have a European car and a Japanese car (made in England though) and since I really am Detroit through and through, I guess I'm just disappointed I didn't find an Escape (I missed one by about 4 hours last week). But I plan to keep this vehicle for 5+ years and maybe until its dead so I'm happy to have a Honda.

 

[The Z Machine]

The gf and I bought a 2007 Honda Fit this morning with 17k miles on it.

Paid $15700 out the door everything included. Car was in great shape and still has the original warranty on it. It has detailed service records and was a clean 1-owner.

I think I overpaid by at most $500, which all things considered isn't a bad deal.

The salesman was pissed that I walked out and went to look at another car, but I did come back and he treated me pretty well. Decently honest and straightforward about the deal.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

The gf and I bought a 2007 Honda Fit this morning with 17k miles on it.Paid $15700 out the door everything included. Car was in great shape and still has the original warranty on it. It has detailed service records and was a clean 1-owner.I think I overpaid by at most $500, which all things considered isn't a bad deal.The salesman was pissed that I walked out and went to look at another car, but I did come back and he treated me pretty well. Decently honest and straightforward about the deal.

Did you get the Sport? From a search I did looks like you got a fair price.

 

[Dr Zoidberg]

because they are SALESman

thats why

 

[slackjawedyokel]

Purchased a 2007 Hyundai Tucson today for the wife after a week long search. Most effective was being honest with my prior experience at other lots this week (walking out due to them playing games) and what it would take to leave with a vehicle. Advised him of the vehicle I wanted and the out-the-door price I was expecting to pay, along with a full tank of gas. I refused to feed the 4 square and did not wiggle out of my comfort zone, and ultimately dropped price about 10% to where I wanted it.

 

[top dog]

We are lucky to have a dealership by us where we use the same salesman everytime we get a car. He's totally laid back and doesn't get agressive at all. We have good communication between the two of us. In this day and age it's much harder for the salesman to rip you off on a car.

 

[[icon]]

Searched online. Found two best examples of what I wanted. Texted both salesmen that I had a check and would be buying a car Saturday (today). Let them know I sent this request to multiple folks.

Got the cheaper one to send me a written quote with their bottom dollar out the door price, broken out (car / fees / taxes). Took that number and went to the more expensive guy. Test drove that car told him the other number (roughly).. He got as close as he could (dropped ~20pct).

Then went to cheaper car.. Test drove. Actually preferred that car and the price was 15pct lower (30pct below book). Still got him to drop a bit more (half what I requested) just by asking.

I think I was out the door 10-15mins from time we said deal. Paperwork signed and keys in hand. Both guys were cool but guy at the place I bought from was prob the coolest car sales guy I've ever dealt with. Zero BS. Just wanted the deal done.

Don't play their game.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

No haggle dealerships is the way to go.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I don't think car salesmen are any different than any other salesmen. I just think car salesmen are the only real exposure that lots of people have to them.

Had a rep selling safety supplies stop by the other day. Same crap. We were low on safety glasses that we keep for carriers and visitors. Of course these frequently go missing. Told the guy what we pay and what we pay for shipping and the minimum order requirements. Guy kept asking me all sorts of questions. I told him either quote me on the glasses or go away. "Let me make a quick call to my manager."

I laughed and said get out.