Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior (1 Viewer)

[Tiny Dancer]

Lots of people talking about this around these parts and on facebook. Here's the full essay. It's excerpted from a book coming out.

The whole thing could be good fodder for self-righteous FBG parents to tell everyone the best way to raise a kid, so feel free to discuss any part you want. The gist of the essay is that Chinese parents tend to be super strict and domineering, which leads to children that are very successful in academics and music. Here's a part I found especially interesting:

Second, Chinese parents believe that their kids owe them everything. The reason for this is a little unclear, but it's probably a combination of Confucian filial piety and the fact that the parents have sacrificed and done so much for their children. (And it's true that Chinese mothers get in the trenches, putting in long grueling hours personally tutoring, training, interrogating and spying on their kids.) Anyway, the understanding is that Chinese children must spend their lives repaying their parents by obeying them and making them proud.

By contrast, I don't think most Westerners have the same view of children being permanently indebted to their parents. My husband, Jed, actually has the opposite view. "Children don't choose their parents," he once said to me. "They don't even choose to be born. It's parents who foist life on their kids, so it's the parents' responsibility to provide for them. Kids don't owe their parents anything. Their duty will be to their own kids." This strikes me as a terrible deal for the Western parent.

I totally agree with the husband's view here. Anybody agree with the Chinese view? It's so foreign to me I can't even wrap my head around it.

 

[Paper Lions]

I totally agree with the husband's view here. Anybody agree with the Chinese view? It's so foreign to me I can't even wrap my head around it.

I've never consciously thought about it, but I think I have something close to the husband's view as well. That is to say that it is the parents' responsibility to give their children the values, education, and tools necessary to become a successful adult.

 

[culdeus]

I like this topic. I haven't really read enough to form an opinion, but it does seem to on the surface reinforce a few stereotypes.

She's hitting the circuit right now promo-ing and I assume she'll get on DailyShow/Colbert and some of the other news programs soon.

 

[culdeus]

The quote you have is pretty isolated from the premise of the book as I understand it.

 

[Oholibah]

Which is nice because there won't be any Chinese mothers in about 20 years. U-S-A! U-S-A!

 

[urbanhack]

pics?

 

[Jewell]

The proof is in tthe pudding -- Southeast Asian and Indian parents stress education and repect for elders and authority. As a result, children from those ethnic groups, Chinese included, do disproportionately well in American schools and are among America' most affluent ethnic groups. It all starts at home. Kudos to those Chinese mothers.

 

[Kumerica]

Which is nice because there won't be any Chinese mothers in about 20 years. U-S-A! U-S-A!

Actually, dude, our birth rate is lower than it once was and we're in a rapidly aging situation, too (along with Germany & Japan).

 

[CrossEyed]

Seems kinda crazy to me. Of course I have final say-so on things while my kids live in my home, but once they become adults they don't owe me anything. I do what I do for my son out of love, not because I expect to hold it over his head someday.

 

[Oholibah]

Which is nice because there won't be any Chinese mothers in about 20 years. U-S-A! U-S-A!

Actually, dude, our birth rate is lower than it once was and we're in a rapidly aging situation, too (along with Germany & Japan).

Which is standard for affluent countries. We still have girls at about the same rate as boys. They do not.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I found the article interesting, although only skimmed through it quickly while sitting through my son's martial arts class on Saturday morning. Perhaps stating the obvious here, but it seemed clear to me that she doesn't really think "Chinese mothers" are superior and is in a sense more about putting a spotlight on the cons that come with the pros. I didn't think it is a parenting approach that she is recommending for others to follow.

I put the term "Chinese mothers" in quotes, because, as the author notes at the outset of her article, a "Chinese Mother" as she uses the term can come from any background, and there are many actual Chinese mothers who don't qualify under her definition.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

The quote you have is pretty isolated from the premise of the book as I understand it.

I haven't read the book, just the Wall Street Journal essay linked in the first post. I don't know how important the quote I selected is to the book overall, I just found it particularly interesting.

 

[hxperson]

Lots of people talking about this around these parts and on facebook. Here's the full essay. It's excerpted from a book coming out.

The whole thing could be good fodder for self-righteous FBG parents to tell everyone the best way to raise a kid, so feel free to discuss any part you want. The gist of the essay is that Chinese parents tend to be super strict and domineering, which leads to children that are very successful in academics and music. Here's a part I found especially interesting:

Second, Chinese parents believe that their kids owe them everything. The reason for this is a little unclear, but it's probably a combination of Confucian filial piety and the fact that the parents have sacrificed and done so much for their children. (And it's true that Chinese mothers get in the trenches, putting in long grueling hours personally tutoring, training, interrogating and spying on their kids.) Anyway, the understanding is that Chinese children must spend their lives repaying their parents by obeying them and making them proud.

By contrast, I don't think most Westerners have the same view of children being permanently indebted to their parents. My husband, Jed, actually has the opposite view. "Children don't choose their parents," he once said to me. "They don't even choose to be born. It's parents who foist life on their kids, so it's the parents' responsibility to provide for them. Kids don't owe their parents anything. Their duty will be to their own kids." This strikes me as a terrible deal for the Western parent.

I totally agree with the husband's view here. Anybody agree with the Chinese view? It's so foreign to me I can't even wrap my head around it.

Interesting to see such a normal idea making other ppl's heads explode. I guess it explains the sense of entitlement that many people seem to have here in North America. I never thought about that before because I wasn't raised like a Westerner.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

Interesting to see such a normal idea making other ppl's heads explode. I guess it explains the sense of entitlement that many people seem to have here in North America. I never thought about that before because I wasn't raised like a Westerner.

Were you raised like the kids in the essay? Do you raise (or plan to raise) your children that way?

 

[LHUCKS]

As many of you know, I spent about 1 month in china in the summer of 2009.

It is is incredibly interesting how different their culture can be ideologically. It was probably the best cultural experience that I've ever had.

This article does a great job of shedding light on how different their culture can be.

I highly suggest a visit to China if you ever have the opportunity, particularly if you can connect with somebody that is a Chinese citizen. It will broaden your horizons and potentially change your life perspective.

Great article, thanks for posting.

 

[honky kong]

I put the term "Chinese mothers" in quotes, because, as the author notes at the outset of her article, a "Chinese Mother" as she uses the term can come from any background

And my MIL would qualify based on the blurb in the OP. I bet it works great if your kids follow along without questioning it but if they don't it turns into a power struggle and, in my wife's case, a sizable mess.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

The traditional Chinese approach may be one way to make sure that the kids take care of the parents when they are older. Newer generation of Chinese people are moving more to the husband's view.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

I highly suggest a visit to China if you ever have the opportunity, particularly if you can connect with somebody that is a Chinese citizen. It will broaden your horizons and potentially change your life perspective.

This is a bit of a hijack, but whatever. In what way did it change your life perspective to go to China?

 

[FUBAR]

I prefer the religious view that we were given everything, so we must "pay it forward". My kids don't owe me anything, they owe what I did for them to their kids.

Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

 

[LHUCKS]

I guess it explains the sense of entitlement that many people seem to have here in North America. I never thought about that before because I wasn't raised like a Westerner.

I was raised in the US and didn't even understand the difference until I started traveling the world.99.9% of Americans have no clue as to what their shortcomings are as a world...and to be honest I didn't either until I started spending a lot of time in countries like China, or even countries that are more similar to the US like Chile or Australia.The US would be so much better off if its citizens better understood the world around them, and appreciated the cultural differences of the countries we interact with on an increasing basis.So often its the "us vs. them" mentality that prevents our country from becoming greater than it already is.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

The traditional Chinese approach may be one way to make sure that the kids take care of the parents when they are older.

I think there is probably a lot of truth to this, which is why it strikes me as totally unfair.

 

[shake zula]

Western parents are soft but Chinese parents are insane...

 

[Black Box]

Interesting article.I think there is some good insight in the article like this:

What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you're good at it. To get good at anything you have to work, and children on their own never want to work, which is why it is crucial to override their preferences. This often requires fortitude on the part of the parents because the child will resist; things are always hardest at the beginning, which is where Western parents tend to give up.

And found other stuff like these interesting:

Chinese parents demand perfect grades because they believe that their child can get them. If their child doesn't get them, the Chinese parent assumes it's because the child didn't work hard enough. That's why the solution to substandard performance is always to excoriate, punish and shame the child. The Chinese parent believes that their child will be strong enough to take the shaming and to improve from it. (And when Chinese kids do excel, there is plenty of ego-inflating parental praise lavished in the privacy of the home.)

But as a parent, one of the worst things you can do for your child's self-esteem is to let them give up. On the flip side, there's nothing better for building confidence than learning you can do something you thought you couldn't.

But found other stuff plain wrong, like the name calling and belittling as a method of motivation.

 

[Socrates11]

For me the parenting style should be somewhere in the middle. Yes we have a responsibilty to our children, but our children have responsibilities as well. And as for children respecting their elders being an Eastern/Asian thing, I seem to remember some commandment or other about honoring they mother and father.

 

[shake zula]

The traditional Chinese approach may be one way to make sure that the kids take care of the parents when they are older.

I think there is probably a lot of truth to this, which is why it strikes me as totally unfair.

You don't think kids should take care of their parents are their parents get older?

 

[General Malaise]

Which is nice because there won't be any Chinese mothers in about 20 years. U-S-A! U-S-A!

 

[Tiny Dancer]

The traditional Chinese approach may be one way to make sure that the kids take care of the parents when they are older.

I think there is probably a lot of truth to this, which is why it strikes me as totally unfair.

You don't think kids should take care of their parents are their parents get older?

I think it's a wonderful thing to do, but I don't think it's fair to have a child for the express purpose of taking care of you when you age.

 

[shake zula]

The traditional Chinese approach may be one way to make sure that the kids take care of the parents when they are older.

I think there is probably a lot of truth to this, which is why it strikes me as totally unfair.

You don't think kids should take care of their parents are their parents get older?

I think it's a wonderful thing to do, but I don't think it's fair to have a child for the express purpose of taking care of you when you age.

Oh. Yeah I agree. I don't think people do that though. I think that is just how we perceive it.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

Interesting article.I think there is some good insight in the article like this:

What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you're good at it.

My sex life proves that this is not true.

 

[The_Man]

If you're interested in this, go read the full essay. I'm a pretty "strict" parent, but this woman is a full-on mental case. I don't think the excerpt quoted above begins to capture her lunacy. Here are other things she says:

A lot of people wonder how Chinese parents raise such stereotypically successful kids. They wonder what these parents do to produce so many math whizzes and music prodigies, what it’s like inside the family, and whether they could do it too. Well, I can tell them, because I’ve done it. Here are some things my daughters, Sophia and Louisa, were never allowed to do:• attend a sleepover• have a playdate• be in a school play• complain about not being in a school play• watch TV or play computer games• choose their own extracurricular activities• get any grade less than an A• not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama• play any instrument other than the piano or violin• not play the piano or violin.

and

[T]he day before her lesson, Lulu announced in exasperation that she was giving up and stomped off. “Get back to the piano now,” I ordered. “You can’t make me.” “Oh yes, I can.” Back at the piano, Lulu made me pay. She punched, thrashed and kicked. She grabbed the music score and tore it to shreds. I taped the score back together and encased it in a plastic shield so that it could never be destroyed again. Then I hauled Lulu’s dollhouse to the car and told her I’d donate it to the Salvation Army piece by piece if she didn’t have “The Little White Donkey” perfect by the next day.

 

[Uncle Owen]

Is this a success vs. happiness argument?

 

[Tiny Dancer]

And as for children respecting their elders being an Eastern/Asian thing, I seem to remember some commandment or other about honoring they mother and father.

I think we're talking about more than just respect. The views expressed in the essay are basically that the kid's very purpose is to do what his parents tell him to do.

 

[shake zula]

Is this a success vs. happiness argument?

Not mutually exclusive. Western culture has a ton of this attitude too. Especially towards boys. If you played pop warner level sports you've been privy to this style of motivation. It works.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

Is this a success vs. happiness argument?

The essay author suggests that the kids ultimately emerge from the process happy because they're good at stuff. I'm somewhat skeptical.

 

[Socrates11]

And as for children respecting their elders being an Eastern/Asian thing, I seem to remember some commandment or other about honoring they mother and father.

I think we're talking about more than just respect. The views expressed in the essay are basically that the kid's very purpose is to do what his parents tell him to do.

From what I understand, the Bible pretty much holds this view as well until the kid's leave the nest.

 

[Uncle Owen]

Is this a success vs. happiness argument?

The essay author suggests that the kids ultimately emerge from the process happy because they're good at stuff. I'm somewhat skeptical.

I guess I'm skeptical about the whole thing too. I'm kind of a softie when it comes to my kid and I probably won't change, so I read these kind of opinions and sort of roll my eyes.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

And as for children respecting their elders being an Eastern/Asian thing, I seem to remember some commandment or other about honoring they mother and father.

I think we're talking about more than just respect. The views expressed in the essay are basically that the kid's very purpose is to do what his parents tell him to do.

From what I understand, the Bible pretty much holds this view as well until the kid's leave the nest.

Oh good, once we get some Bible talkin' up in here, this thread's gonna take off.

 

[rolyaTy]

Interesting, but not surprising. When you're limited to one kid, I guess you'll do your damdest to ensure they succeed, especially because they'll be competing with, oh, about a billion other people for opportunities and dates.

 

[CrossEyed]

Is this a success vs. happiness argument?

Not mutually exclusive. Western culture has a ton of this attitude too. Especially towards boys. If you played pop warner level sports you've been privy to this style of motivation. It works.

Not necessarily.

 

[General Malaise]

NPR had some professor from Georgetown on yesterday who reviewed this book. The Chinese believe that excellence is the only way to lead a satisfying life, so it drives the parents to instill this into their children. As a parent, I have trouble staying on top of my sons to read 30 minutes a day. I cannot begin to imagine what it would take to get them to practice violin for 3 hours every day. I'm just not that motivated and hope they can find satisfaction by the overwhelming mediocrity I like to bestow upon them.

 

[hxperson]

Interesting to see such a normal idea making other ppl's heads explode. I guess it explains the sense of entitlement that many people seem to have here in North America. I never thought about that before because I wasn't raised like a Westerner.

Were you raised like the kids in the essay? Do you raise (or plan to raise) your children that way?

I agree with my parents about some things and disagree about others. I've got a great job and I still love my parents so, in the end, it worked out I guess.One thing I really hate about the Chinese culture though is the eternal graditude part. I know and have dated many people who have to pay their parents a monthly income, even though they are living on their own and their parents are wealthy, just because their parents feel that they owe them. I would never do that.

 

[saintsfan]

Yeah, I don't know. Some of that is insane. Grades and successful careers are important, but what about other things, like, I don't know, enjoying life??

It's a cliche, but I believe it with all my heart, nobody on their death bed wishes they had spent more time in the office or doing school work.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

Interesting, but not surprising. When you're limited to one kid, I guess you'll do your damdest to ensure they succeed, especially because they'll be competing with, oh, about a billion other people for opportunities and dates.

The author of the essay lived in the U.S. and had two kids. But I suppose it's possible the "one kid" rule shaped a lot of parenting attitudes over the years.

 

[General Malaise]

Interesting, but not surprising. When you're limited to one kid, I guess you'll do your damdest to ensure they succeed, especially because they'll be competing with, oh, about a billion other people for opportunities and dates.

I think the author has 2 kids....maybe more? I know she has at least 2. Her oldest played Carnegie Hall at 14.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

I know and have dated many people who have to pay their parents a monthly income, even though they are living on their own and their parents are wealthy, just because their parents feel that they owe them.

Wow, I've never heard of this.

 

[General Malaise]

Interesting, but not surprising. When you're limited to one kid, I guess you'll do your damdest to ensure they succeed, especially because they'll be competing with, oh, about a billion other people for opportunities and dates.

The author of the essay lived in the U.S. and had two kids. But I suppose it's possible the "one kid" rule shaped a lot of parenting attitudes over the years.

I thought the "one kid" rule was a relatively recent edict....last few decades at most. From what I understood, this type of parenting has roots that date back centuries.I think....

 

[RudiStein]

That's great. Now somebody teach them how to drive.

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o hai

 

[Socrates11]

And as for children respecting their elders being an Eastern/Asian thing, I seem to remember some commandment or other about honoring they mother and father.

I think we're talking about more than just respect. The views expressed in the essay are basically that the kid's very purpose is to do what his parents tell him to do.

From what I understand, the Bible pretty much holds this view as well until the kid's leave the nest.

Oh good, once we get some Bible talkin' up in here, this thread's gonna take off.

Meh, I'm agnostic. Just pointing out that it's not merely a western values vs eastern values sort of thing. In fact the values used to be quite similar, so the issue is how soft the west has become.

 

[Socrates11]

It's a cliche, but I believe it with all my heart, nobody on their death bed wishes they had spent more time in the office or doing school work.

Unless of course you're dying penniless and childless on some mat in a halfway house or under a bridge somewhere, then perhaps you'd be wishing you worked and studied a little harder.

 

[rolyaTy]

Yeah, I don't know. Some of that is insane. Grades and successful careers are important, but what about other things, like, I don't know, enjoying life??

I think part of it comes from a culture where, if you don't have excellent grades and a successful career, you cannot enjoy life.In a pool of a billion people for potential mates and employees, imagine the competition.