Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior (1 Viewer)

[Voice Of Reason]

This strategy of parenting seems really good for raising blue collar workers. However, white collar jobs seem to benefit from a more Western style upbringing. Based on the information from this lecture.

http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_motivation.html

 

[Judge Smails]

2 sides to this. From a performance standpoint, it is amazing to see the differences in achievement. Look at valedictorians, accomplished musicians, etc in areas like mine (southern california) and asian names dominate the list. The expectations are off the charts. On the plus side, these kids excel in the classroom, get into top colleges, and many times start great careers. On the downside, the pressure exerted can border abuse. I've seen an asian mother take her son out of class and scream at him until he was in tears. Why? Because he got a B on a test. Sometimes they are advanced academically but are far behind with social skills.

Overall, hard to argue with success, and the kids often live up to the high expectations. Their job when they are in school is to get grades - fun stuff comes after.

 

[Ilov80s]

One of those recent popular social science books thought that the Asian rice culture had a big impact on Asian work ethic. The theory was that since rice requires much more attention and work than traditional European crops, Asians have a long ingrained cultural work ethic not found in Europe. In Europe, once most the crops were planted the weather was really the determining factor of how successful it was. However, with rice, the key factor was the skill and diligence of the farmer.

 

[Ilov80s]

NPR had some professor from Georgetown on yesterday who reviewed this book. The Chinese believe that excellence is the only way to lead a satisfying life, so it drives the parents to instill this into their children. As a parent, I have trouble staying on top of my sons to read 30 minutes a day. I cannot begin to imagine what it would take to get them to practice violin for 3 hours every day. I'm just not that motivated and hope they can find satisfaction by the overwhelming mediocrity I like to bestow upon them.

Why? It ranks pretty low on your list of priorities? Your son is mentally stronger than you and can get out of it?

 

[-jb-]

One of those recent popular social science books thought that the Asian rice culture had a big impact on Asian work ethic. The theory was that since rice requires much more attention and work than traditional European crops, Asians have a long ingrained cultural work ethic not found in Europe. In Europe, once most the crops were planted the weather was really the determining factor of how successful it was. However, with rice, the key factor was the skill and diligence of the farmer.

Malcolm Gladwell talks about this, too, I believe...

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Asian-American women ages 15-24 have the highest suicide rate of women in any race or ethnic group in that age group. Suicide is the second-leading cause of death for Asian-American women in that age range.Depression starts even younger than age 15. Noh says one study has shown that as young as the fifth grade, Asian-American girls have the highest rate of depression so severe they've contemplated suicide.

Link

 

[Please See Mine]

NPR had some professor from Georgetown on yesterday who reviewed this book. The Chinese believe that excellence is the only way to lead a satisfying life, so it drives the parents to instill this into their children. As a parent, I have trouble staying on top of my sons to read 30 minutes a day. I cannot begin to imagine what it would take to get them to practice violin for 3 hours every day. I'm just not that motivated and hope they can find satisfaction by the overwhelming mediocrity I like to bestow upon them.

Why? It ranks pretty low on your list of priorities? Your son is mentally stronger than you and can get out of it?

Dude, how much reading do you really think that the heir to the forrestmail throne really needs?

 

[DiStefano]

Like anything else, this can be too much of a good thing.

But I wonder, how many young blacks and "poor white trash" would escape the ghetto and the run down trailer park if they had "Chinese Mothers"?

 

[cstu]

Like anything else, this can be too much of a good thing.But I wonder, how many young blacks and "poor white trash" would escape the ghetto and the run down trailer park if they had "Chinese Mothers"?

I see Chinese mothers getting a lot of credit here, but the Chinese (and other Asians) normally have a stable home life and close community around them. I think most people stuck in the low-class life would have done better in life with that environment.

 

[Oholibah]

2 sides to this. From a performance standpoint, it is amazing to see the differences in achievement. Look at valedictorians, accomplished musicians, etc in areas like mine (southern california) and asian names dominate the list. The expectations are off the charts. On the plus side, these kids excel in the classroom, get into top colleges, and many times start great careers. On the downside, the pressure exerted can border abuse. I've seen an asian mother take her son out of class and scream at him until he was in tears. Why? Because he got a B on a test. Sometimes they are advanced academically but are far behind with social skills.

Overall, hard to argue with success, and the kids often live up to the high expectations. Their job when they are in school is to get grades - fun stuff comes after.

I think this is key. You can have a kid who is 1/100 with no social skills or a kid who is 10/100 but is good with people. I think any parent or hiring manager would be an idiot to take the home schooled/Asian kid in the scenario.

 

[BobbyLayne]

2 sides to this. From a performance standpoint, it is amazing to see the differences in achievement. Look at valedictorians, accomplished musicians, etc in areas like mine (southern california) and asian names dominate the list. The expectations are off the charts. On the plus side, these kids excel in the classroom, get into top colleges, and many times start great careers. On the downside, the pressure exerted can border abuse. I've seen an asian mother take her son out of class and scream at him until he was in tears. Why? Because he got a B on a test. Sometimes they are advanced academically but are far behind with social skills.

Overall, hard to argue with success, and the kids often live up to the high expectations. Their job when they are in school is to get grades - fun stuff comes after.

You just reminded me I saw a scene like that last summer. Asian (Japanese) mom took her son out of the classroom and berated him for five minutes for not paying attention. Door was closed but we could here her harping on him, just beating him down, kid was crying, she wouldn't let up. Then she got him to calm back down and returned to class.Oh, which class you ask? Story time at the New York Public Library. For pre-schoolers. The kid getting chewed out was about 28-30 months old.

It's and

Wack, but kids are resilient...you just hope they're strong enough to get through it.

 

[Gachi]

Thank God I don't have a 'Chinese mother.' I read this article on a different forum and I think she's a nutcase. My parents always stressed education, but I've always had my own dreams aswell. I think their culture takes it overboard, but that's their culture and I have no room to judge.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Thank God I don't have a 'Chinese mother.' I read this article on a different forum and I think she's a nutcase. My parents always stressed education, but I've always had my own dreams aswell. I think their culture takes it overboard, but that's their culture and I have no room to judge.

Check that - are there hard-### Asian moms? Sure - but you could say the same for South Asian Indians, Jewish moms, whatevs.

This whole thing is a big sendup. The woman was born in Illinois. Her Chinese parents immigrated from the Philippines. She spent her entire life here in the states, raised her kids Jewish (her words - husband is also a law professor). I find it pretty hard to believe she is this over the top while teaching at Duke Law and Yale Law. She's pretty savvy. She wrote a couple boring professional books, and now she is cashing in on a juicy memoir. She knew the stereotyped racism would be a hot seller angle.

I think she is hoodwinking everybody. White people will fall for anything.

 

[cstu]

Thank God I don't have a 'Chinese mother.' I read this article on a different forum and I think she's a nutcase. My parents always stressed education, but I've always had my own dreams aswell. I think their culture takes it overboard, but that's their culture and I have no room to judge.

Check that - are there hard-### Asian moms? Sure - but you could say the same for South Asian Indians, Jewish moms, whatevs.

This whole thing is a big sendup. The woman was born in Illinois. Her Chinese parents immigrated from the Philippines. She spent her entire life here in the states, raised her kids Jewish (her words - husband is also a law professor). I find it pretty hard to believe she is this over the top while teaching at Duke Law and Yale Law. She's pretty savvy. She wrote a couple boring professional books, and now she is cashing in on a juicy memoir. She knew the stereotyped racism would be a hot seller angle.

I think she is hoodwinking everybody. White people will fall for anything.

 

[cstu]

White people will fall for anything.

Not just white people - in China the Jews are revered for their business savvy and the Talmud is being pushed as a business guide.

 

[Gachi]

Thank God I don't have a 'Chinese mother.' I read this article on a different forum and I think she's a nutcase. My parents always stressed education, but I've always had my own dreams aswell. I think their culture takes it overboard, but that's their culture and I have no room to judge.

Check that - are there hard-### Asian moms? Sure - but you could say the same for South Asian Indians, Jewish moms, whatevs.

This whole thing is a big sendup. The woman was born in Illinois. Her Chinese parents immigrated from the Philippines. She spent her entire life here in the states, raised her kids Jewish (her words - husband is also a law professor). I find it pretty hard to believe she is this over the top while teaching at Duke Law and Yale Law. She's pretty savvy. She wrote a couple boring professional books, and now she is cashing in on a juicy memoir. She knew the stereotyped racism would be a hot seller angle.

I think she is hoodwinking everybody. White people will fall for anything.

Damn..thts some great posting. But I'm black though..

 

[cstu]

Thank God I don't have a 'Chinese mother.' I read this article on a different forum and I think she's a nutcase. My parents always stressed education, but I've always had my own dreams aswell. I think their culture takes it overboard, but that's their culture and I have no room to judge.

Check that - are there hard-### Asian moms? Sure - but you could say the same for South Asian Indians, Jewish moms, whatevs.

This whole thing is a big sendup. The woman was born in Illinois. Her Chinese parents immigrated from the Philippines. She spent her entire life here in the states, raised her kids Jewish (her words - husband is also a law professor). I find it pretty hard to believe she is this over the top while teaching at Duke Law and Yale Law. She's pretty savvy. She wrote a couple boring professional books, and now she is cashing in on a juicy memoir. She knew the stereotyped racism would be a hot seller angle.

I think she is hoodwinking everybody. White people will fall for anything.

Damn..thts some great posting. But I'm black though..

 

[Fensalk]

I made a post a couple months ago that I think is relevant here.

The biggest problem facing our community today. Fatherless households.

I was reading about the "poverty cycle" a few months ago. Its a cycle where a family passes its poverty down from generation to generation, and a lot of it has to do with lifestyle choices. One of the big factors is parents not getting involved in the lives of their children. You see the "hands off" approach a lot more with families in poverty, usually rationalized as "Leave the kids alone. They can raise themselves, just like I did." What happens is kids raised that way are much less likely to successfully navigate life's pitfalls, and helps create the poverty cycle. They develop cultural beliefs that trap them in poverty. For example, I read that parents of poor kids are much less likely to attend PTA meetings, or show up to school to help discipline their kids when they do something wrong.Wealthy families are more likely to be actively involved in their kids' lives, and to guide them away from life's pitfalls.I think this is one of the biggest single reasons why families stay in poverty from generation to generation.

 

[BobbyLayne]

On a macro level, IME parental involvement is the single biggest factor in the success/failure of any public school.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

 

[Tiny Dancer]

But I wonder, how many young blacks and "poor white trash" would escape the ghetto and the run down trailer park if they had "Chinese Mothers"?

I'm not sure how easy it would be to become a "Chinese Mother" if you didn't have one yourself.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

Thank God I don't have a 'Chinese mother.' I read this article on a different forum and I think she's a nutcase. My parents always stressed education, but I've always had my own dreams aswell. I think their culture takes it overboard, but that's their culture and I have no room to judge.

Check that - are there hard-### Asian moms? Sure - but you could say the same for South Asian Indians, Jewish moms, whatevs.

This whole thing is a big sendup. The woman was born in Illinois. Her Chinese parents immigrated from the Philippines. She spent her entire life here in the states, raised her kids Jewish (her words - husband is also a law professor). I find it pretty hard to believe she is this over the top while teaching at Duke Law and Yale Law. She's pretty savvy. She wrote a couple boring professional books, and now she is cashing in on a juicy memoir. She knew the stereotyped racism would be a hot seller angle.

I think she is hoodwinking everybody. White people will fall for anything.

Sure it's possible some details are changed or exaggerated but I have a hard time believing that a Yale Law professor, who is married to another professor, and who has kids old enough to speak for themselves, would write a fake memoir. It would just be too easy for people to figure out it was fake and it would destroy all of their professional reputations that they've apparently worked really hard to achieve.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

I like the "Jewish mother" v. "Chinese mother" tangent. Both Jews and Chinese kids have historically seemed to be more academically successful than average, but it doesn't feel like the same way of parenting at all. Having grown up in a Jewish household, my impression is that "Jewish mothering" is extremely child-centric. I can't imagine any "Jewish mother" ever asking her adult child to give her money to pay her back for all the sacrifices she made. Seriously, that's the most mind-blowing thing that's come out of this thread. I've been thinking about it ever since someone posted it.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Thank God I don't have a 'Chinese mother.' I read this article on a different forum and I think she's a nutcase. My parents always stressed education, but I've always had my own dreams aswell. I think their culture takes it overboard, but that's their culture and I have no room to judge.

Check that - are there hard-### Asian moms? Sure - but you could say the same for South Asian Indians, Jewish moms, whatevs.

This whole thing is a big sendup. The woman was born in Illinois. Her Chinese parents immigrated from the Philippines. She spent her entire life here in the states, raised her kids Jewish (her words - husband is also a law professor). I find it pretty hard to believe she is this over the top while teaching at Duke Law and Yale Law. She's pretty savvy. She wrote a couple boring professional books, and now she is cashing in on a juicy memoir. She knew the stereotyped racism would be a hot seller angle.

I think she is hoodwinking everybody. White people will fall for anything.

Sure it's possible some details are changed or exaggerated but I have a hard time believing that a Yale Law professor, who is married to another professor, and who has kids old enough to speak for themselves, would write a fake memoir. It would just be too easy for people to figure out it was fake and it would destroy all of their professional reputations that they've apparently worked really hard to achieve.

This.Who's going to dispute the facts? Her 17 and 13 year old daughters?

 

[Tiny Dancer]

Sure it's possible some details are changed or exaggerated but I have a hard time believing that a Yale Law professor, who is married to another professor, and who has kids old enough to speak for themselves, would write a fake memoir. It would just be too easy for people to figure out it was fake and it would destroy all of their professional reputations that they've apparently worked really hard to achieve.

This.Who's going to dispute the facts? Her 17 and 13 year old daughters?

Yes, among other people. Kids that age can talk. They'll undoubtedly be asked about this stuff. So will her husband. And even if you believe that the immediate family would do anything to protect the mother's lies, it's pretty easy for an outsider to refute stuff like "my kids never had a playdate or a sleepover or got anything less than an A." If the kids had been going on playdates, or getting Bs, lots of other people would know. Also, professional musicians will tell you that the most important factor in becoming good is the amount of practice time put in. It's not like these kids were practicing ten minutes a day like my kids and suddenly becoming top violinists. So there's significant circumstantial evidence corroborating at least the parts where she made the kids practice for hours each day.

I would also say that the whole thing sounds plausible. I know mothers that have a lot of these same sorts of tendencies, just slightly less extreme. So it doesn't really surprise me that a mother like the author exists. Although there could be some real debate about how widespread those mothering techniques are. The author suggests they are common amongst Chinese mothers, but I have no idea.

 

[Black Box]

I like the "Jewish mother" v. "Chinese mother" tangent. Both Jews and Chinese kids have historically seemed to be more academically successful than average, but it doesn't feel like the same way of parenting at all. Having grown up in a Jewish household, my impression is that "Jewish mothering" is extremely child-centric. I can't imagine any "Jewish mother" ever asking her adult child to give her money to pay her back for all the sacrifices she made. Seriously, that's the most mind-blowing thing that's come out of this thread. I've been thinking about it ever since someone posted it.

Trying to figure out how to change course so the can start rolling in?

 

[Tiny Dancer]

I like the "Jewish mother" v. "Chinese mother" tangent. Both Jews and Chinese kids have historically seemed to be more academically successful than average, but it doesn't feel like the same way of parenting at all. Having grown up in a Jewish household, my impression is that "Jewish mothering" is extremely child-centric. I can't imagine any "Jewish mother" ever asking her adult child to give her money to pay her back for all the sacrifices she made. Seriously, that's the most mind-blowing thing that's come out of this thread. I've been thinking about it ever since someone posted it.

Trying to figure out how to change course so the can start rolling in?

I think you would need to start training the kid from birth to buy into this. My kids are only 7 and 5, but they're already too far gone. Really screwed this parenting thing up.

 

[ODoyleRules]

One of those recent popular social science books thought that the Asian rice culture had a big impact on Asian work ethic. The theory was that since rice requires much more attention and work than traditional European crops, Asians have a long ingrained cultural work ethic not found in Europe. In Europe, once most the crops were planted the weather was really the determining factor of how successful it was. However, with rice, the key factor was the skill and diligence of the farmer.

Do you recall the book? Seems up my alley.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

One of those recent popular social science books thought that the Asian rice culture had a big impact on Asian work ethic. The theory was that since rice requires much more attention and work than traditional European crops, Asians have a long ingrained cultural work ethic not found in Europe. In Europe, once most the crops were planted the weather was really the determining factor of how successful it was. However, with rice, the key factor was the skill and diligence of the farmer.

Do you recall the book? Seems up my alley.

I think he's talking about Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell.

 

[ODoyleRules]

One of those recent popular social science books thought that the Asian rice culture had a big impact on Asian work ethic. The theory was that since rice requires much more attention and work than traditional European crops, Asians have a long ingrained cultural work ethic not found in Europe. In Europe, once most the crops were planted the weather was really the determining factor of how successful it was. However, with rice, the key factor was the skill and diligence of the farmer.

Do you recall the book? Seems up my alley.

I think he's talking about Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell.

I read Outliers and don't recall this (but I read awhile ago).

 

[Tiny Dancer]

One of those recent popular social science books thought that the Asian rice culture had a big impact on Asian work ethic. The theory was that since rice requires much more attention and work than traditional European crops, Asians have a long ingrained cultural work ethic not found in Europe. In Europe, once most the crops were planted the weather was really the determining factor of how successful it was. However, with rice, the key factor was the skill and diligence of the farmer.

Do you recall the book? Seems up my alley.

I think he's talking about Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell.

I read Outliers and don't recall this (but I read awhile ago).

Here's an excerpt

 

[BobbyLayne]

I like the "Jewish mother" v. "Chinese mother" tangent. Both Jews and Chinese kids have historically seemed to be more academically successful than average, but it doesn't feel like the same way of parenting at all. Having grown up in a Jewish household, my impression is that "Jewish mothering" is extremely child-centric. I can't imagine any "Jewish mother" ever asking her adult child to give her money to pay her back for all the sacrifices she made. Seriously, that's the most mind-blowing thing that's come out of this thread. I've been thinking about it ever since someone posted it.

Trying to figure out how to change course so the can start rolling in?

I think you would need to start training the kid from birth to buy into this. My kids are only 7 and 5, but they're already too far gone. Really screwed this parenting thing up.

I can relate. As a parent, you never run out of things to feel guilty about. Too much too little too soon too late.

 

[ODoyleRules]

Here's an excerpt

Thanks

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Thank God I don't have a 'Chinese mother.' I read this article on a different forum and I think she's a nutcase. My parents always stressed education, but I've always had my own dreams aswell. I think their culture takes it overboard, but that's their culture and I have no room to judge.

Check that - are there hard-### Asian moms? Sure - but you could say the same for South Asian Indians, Jewish moms, whatevs.

This whole thing is a big sendup. The woman was born in Illinois. Her Chinese parents immigrated from the Philippines. She spent her entire life here in the states, raised her kids Jewish (her words - husband is also a law professor). I find it pretty hard to believe she is this over the top while teaching at Duke Law and Yale Law. She's pretty savvy. She wrote a couple boring professional books, and now she is cashing in on a juicy memoir. She knew the stereotyped racism would be a hot seller angle.

I think she is hoodwinking everybody. White people will fall for anything.

Sure it's possible some details are changed or exaggerated but I have a hard time believing that a Yale Law professor, who is married to another professor, and who has kids old enough to speak for themselves, would write a fake memoir. It would just be too easy for people to figure out it was fake and it would destroy all of their professional reputations that they've apparently worked really hard to achieve.

I think people are misreading the article. As I noted earlier, I don't think her point is to hoodwink anyone or to show that Chinese mothers are "superior" as the title suggests. I think her point is to shine a spotlight on the very difficult and negative aspects of raising children this way, which is something most of us are unaware of. We think these asian kids are successful because of their culture or heritage or something they're born with or something to do with the rice fields. In fact, its because their mothers are insanely driven to ignore the well-being of their kids to satisfy the mothers' own neurotic paranoia and need for validation.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

I think people are misreading the article. As I noted earlier, I don't think her point is to hoodwink anyone or to show that Chinese mothers are "superior" as the title suggests. I think her point is to shine a spotlight on the very difficult and negative aspects of raising children this way, which is something most of us are unaware of. We think these asian kids are successful because of their culture or heritage or something they're born with or something to do with the rice fields. In fact, its because their mothers are insanely driven to ignore the well-being of their kids to satisfy the mothers' own neurotic paranoia and need for validation.

I don't see any evidence from the article that she thinks that "Chinese mothers" are worse than regular mothers. Maybe it's in the book, but as you mention, the title of the essay would seem to contradict what you're saying. I heard part of an interview with the author on NPR and she said that maybe she shouldn't have been so strict but the example she chose was an absolute joke -- "I probably should have let them play the flute instead of the violin if they wanted to."

 

[Black Box]

I like the "Jewish mother" v. "Chinese mother" tangent. Both Jews and Chinese kids have historically seemed to be more academically successful than average, but it doesn't feel like the same way of parenting at all. Having grown up in a Jewish household, my impression is that "Jewish mothering" is extremely child-centric. I can't imagine any "Jewish mother" ever asking her adult child to give her money to pay her back for all the sacrifices she made. Seriously, that's the most mind-blowing thing that's come out of this thread. I've been thinking about it ever since someone posted it.

Trying to figure out how to change course so the can start rolling in?

I think you would need to start training the kid from birth to buy into this. My kids are only 7 and 5, but they're already too far gone. Really screwed this parenting thing up.

Mine are 2.5 and 3 mo. Holding out hope for the younger one

 

[iamsmilin]

That's great. Now somebody teach them how to drive.

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o hai

OMG Hi 2 u!So, I have been avoiding this thread. I've read the article and snippets but I feel that if I start posting in here I may write an entire book of opinions. I have very mixed feelings about what she is doing. There are some things that make sense and seem totally normal to me. There are other things that make me cringe and have flashbacks from my childhood.

On a side note, I am a little disappointed in the FFA. I read this article on Thursday or Friday of last week and it didn't get posted until this week. I expect better from you and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

On a side note, I am a little disappointed in the FFA. I read this article on Thursday or Friday of last week and it didn't get posted until this week. I expect better from you and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Sorry, I was too busy practicing my violin.

 

[CrossEyed]

On a side note, I am a little disappointed in the FFA. I read this article on Thursday or Friday of last week and it didn't get posted until this week. I expect better from you and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Sorry, I was too busy practicing my violin.

Hey, I don't think your three hours are up, pal.

 

[DiStefano]

That's great. Now somebody teach them how to drive.

28 User(s) are reading this topic (9 Guests and 2 Anonymous Users)

17 Members: RudiStein, General Malaise, CrossEyed, Reaper, saintsfan, hxperson, themeanmachine, Chadstroma, Aaron Rudnicki, scorchy, Def, shake zula, The_Man, iamsmilin, pbm107, Cool in the pocket, Genedoc

o hai

OMG Hi 2 u!So, I have been avoiding this thread. I've read the article and snippets but I feel that if I start posting in here I may write an entire book of opinions. I have very mixed feelings about what she is doing. There are some things that make sense and seem totally normal to me. There are other things that make me cringe and have flashbacks from my childhood.

On a side note, I am a little disappointed in the FFA. I read this article on Thursday or Friday of last week and it didn't get posted until this week. I expect better from you and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

I give you a B for this, and you are probably due for a spanking.

 

[Black Box]

On a side note, I am a little disappointed in the FFA. I read this article on Thursday or Friday of last week and it didn't get posted until this week. I expect better from you and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Sorry, I was too busy practicing my violin.

Hey, I don't think your three hours are up, pal.

Needs more belittling and name calling.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother came out Tuesday. On the Amazon sales tracker, it was 45th, then 31st, and today its 4th.

I can just imagine the call Amy Chua got from her mother today.

"Why number four? Why not number one yet? Very disappointed!"

 

[Black Box]

Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother came out Tuesday. On the Amazon sales tracker, it was 45th, then 31st, and today its 4th.

I can just imagine the call Amy Chua got from her mother today.

"Why number four? Why not number one yet? Very disappointed!"

:throwsbookintotrashcan:

 

[iamsmilin]

That's great. Now somebody teach them how to drive.

28 User(s) are reading this topic (9 Guests and 2 Anonymous Users)

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o hai

OMG Hi 2 u!So, I have been avoiding this thread. I've read the article and snippets but I feel that if I start posting in here I may write an entire book of opinions. I have very mixed feelings about what she is doing. There are some things that make sense and seem totally normal to me. There are other things that make me cringe and have flashbacks from my childhood.

On a side note, I am a little disappointed in the FFA. I read this article on Thursday or Friday of last week and it didn't get posted until this week. I expect better from you and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

I give you a B for this, and you are probably due for a spanking.

Is this supposed to be a bad thing?

 

[Foosball God]

That's great. Now somebody teach them how to drive.

28 User(s) are reading this topic (9 Guests and 2 Anonymous Users)

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o hai

OMG Hi 2 u!So, I have been avoiding this thread. I've read the article and snippets but I feel that if I start posting in here I may write an entire book of opinions. I have very mixed feelings about what she is doing. There are some things that make sense and seem totally normal to me. There are other things that make me cringe and have flashbacks from my childhood.

On a side note, I am a little disappointed in the FFA. I read this article on Thursday or Friday of last week and it didn't get posted until this week. I expect better from you and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

I give you a B for this, and you are probably due for a spanking.

Stay off my lawn.

 

[RudiStein]

That's great. Now somebody teach them how to drive.

28 User(s) are reading this topic (9 Guests and 2 Anonymous Users)

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o hai

On a side note, I am a little disappointed in the FFA. I read this article on Thursday or Friday of last week and it didn't get posted until this week. I expect better from you and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Asian kids are always ahead of the pack.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Of course they're superior, they have Chinese kids. Chinese kids tend to be pretty smart.

 

[General Malaise]

NPR had some professor from Georgetown on yesterday who reviewed this book. The Chinese believe that excellence is the only way to lead a satisfying life, so it drives the parents to instill this into their children. As a parent, I have trouble staying on top of my sons to read 30 minutes a day. I cannot begin to imagine what it would take to get them to practice violin for 3 hours every day. I'm just not that motivated and hope they can find satisfaction by the overwhelming mediocrity I like to bestow upon them.

Why? It ranks pretty low on your list of priorities? Your son is mentally stronger than you and can get out of it?

Wow, aren't you a giant richard. My statement was supposed to be a humorous lead-in to the sentence that immediately follows, not an indictment of my parenting. The fact that I bestow overwhelming mediocrity upon them was also supposed to be humorous, but I suppose you could use that as a platform to attack my parenting too if you wished.For the record, I have two sons, both read a minimum of 30 minutes a day and often times read more than that (as they are rewarded for the amount of hours they log in a school year for reading). The trouble isn't with putting it structurally in place - it is - but rather in encouraging my 6 year old beginning reader to sit quietly and read to himself. He would much rather play outside, play with his toys or play on the computer....which I'm sure is normal of most 6 year olds. Is it a battle royale to get him to open a book? No, it's more aligned to getting him to make his bed or eat all his veggies. He does, but he's reluctant. I'm sure that will change as he ages as his older brother happily picks up a book and reads when told. But he didn't get there overnight either and had to be encouraged when he was 6, just like his little brother is now.

 

[General Malaise]

Thank God I don't have a 'Chinese mother.' I read this article on a different forum and I think she's a nutcase. My parents always stressed education, but I've always had my own dreams aswell. I think their culture takes it overboard, but that's their culture and I have no room to judge.

Check that - are there hard-### Asian moms? Sure - but you could say the same for South Asian Indians, Jewish moms, whatevs.

This whole thing is a big sendup. The woman was born in Illinois. Her Chinese parents immigrated from the Philippines. She spent her entire life here in the states, raised her kids Jewish (her words - husband is also a law professor). I find it pretty hard to believe she is this over the top while teaching at Duke Law and Yale Law. She's pretty savvy. She wrote a couple boring professional books, and now she is cashing in on a juicy memoir. She knew the stereotyped racism would be a hot seller angle.

I think she is hoodwinking everybody. White people will fall for anything.

I think you might be right here. Your Swift comparison was very apt and makes sense to me.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Follow up story in the NYT yesterday:

Cultural Studies

Retreat of the ‘Tiger Mother’

By KATE ZERNIKE

Published: January 14, 2011

TRY this at a dinner party in one of the hothouses of Ivy League aspiration — Cambridge, Scarsdale, Evanston, Marin County:

Declare that the way Asian-American parents succeed in raising such successful children is by denying them play dates and sleepovers, and demanding that they bring home straight A’s.

Note that you once told your own hyper-successful Asian-American daughter that she was “garbage.” That you threatened to throw out your other daughter’s dollhouse and refused to let her go to the bathroom one evening until she mastered a difficult piano composition. That you threw the homemade birthday cards they gave you as 7- and 4-year-olds back in their faces, saying you expected more effort.

Better yet, write a book about it.

What kind of reaction might you get?

In the week since The Wall Street Journal published an excerpt of the new book by Amy Chua, a Yale law professor, under the headline “Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior,” Ms. Chua has received death threats, she says, and “hundreds, hundreds” of e-mails. The excerpt generated more than 5,000 comments on the newspaper’s Web site, and countless blog entries referring in shorthand to “that Tiger Mother.” Some argued that the parents of all those Asians among Harvard’s chosen few must be doing something right; many called Ms. Chua a “monster” or “nuts” — and a very savvy provocateur.

A law blog suggested a “Mommie Dearest” element to her tale (“No. Wire. Hangers! Ever!!”). Another post was titled “Parents like Amy Chua are the reason Asian-Americans like me are in therapy.” A Taiwanese video circulating on YouTube (subtitled in English) concluded that Ms. Chua would not mind if her children grew up disturbed and rebellious, as long as she sold more books.

“It’s been a little surprising, and a little bit intense, definitely,” Ms. Chua said in a phone interview on Thursday, between what she called a “24/7” effort to “clarify some misunderstandings.” Her narration, she said, was meant to be ironic and self-mocking — “I find it very funny, almost obtuse.”

But reading the book, “Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother,” it can be hard to tell when she is kidding.

“In retrospect, these coaching suggestions seem a bit extreme,” she writes in the book after describing how she once threatened to burn her daughter’s stuffed animals if she did not play a piano composition perfectly. “On the other hand, they were highly effective.”

In interviews, she comes off as unresolved. “I think I pulled back at the right time,” she said. “I do not think there was anything abusive in my house.” Yet, she added, “I stand by a lot of my critiques of Western parenting. I think there’s a lot of questions about how you instill true self-esteem.”

Her real crime, she said, may have been telling the truth. “I sort of feel like people are not that honest about their own parenting,” she said. “Take any teenage household, tell me there is not yelling and conflict.”

Ms. Chua is one half of the kind of Asian-Jewish academic power couple that, as she notes, populates many university towns. Her husband is Jed Rubenfeld, also a Yale law professor, and the author of two successful mystery novels. Ms. Chua, herself the author of two previous books, was reported to have received an advance in the high six figures for “Tiger Mother.”

If she has one regret, she said, it is that the Journal excerpt, and particularly the headline, did not reflect the full arc of her story.

Her book is a memoir that ends with her relenting (sort of) when the younger of her two teenage daughters refuses to go along with the “extreme parenting” Ms. Chua uses to prevent the kind of decline that she thinks makes some third-generation Asian-Americans as soft and entitled as their teammates on suburban soccer teams where every child is declared Most Valuable Player.

“I’ve been forced to answer questions about a book I didn’t write,” she said. “It’s not saying what people should do, it’s saying, ‘Here’s what I did, and boy did I learn a lesson.’ ” All this is captured, she said, in the book’s three-paragraph subtitle, which concludes with the words, “and how I was humbled by a thirteen-year-old.”

Born to Chinese parents who were raised in the Philippines and attended the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Ms. Chua, 48, graduated from Harvard and Harvard Law, where she was an executive editor of the Law Review. She confesses in her book that she is “not good at enjoying life,” and that she wasn’t naturally curious or skeptical like other law students. “I just wanted to write down everything the professor said and memorize it.”

She was determined to raise her daughters the way she and her three sisters had been raised — which, she said, left them adoring their parents. By her account, her elder daughter, Sophia, complied, excelled and played piano at Carnegie Hall. But the younger, Lulu, rebelled. At the turning point of the memoir, Lulu, then 13, begins smashing glasses in a Moscow restaurant and yelling at her mother, “I HATE my life, I HATE you.”

Ms. Chua’s husband appears only peripherally in “Tiger Mother” — though there is one battle in which she lashes out at him after he worries that she is pushing their daughters to the point that there is “no breathing room” in their home.

“All you do is think about writing your own books and your own future,” she says to him. “What dreams do you have for Sophia or for Lulu? Do you ever think about that? What dreams do you have for Coco?” He bursts out laughing — Coco is their dog.

She concludes, “I didn’t understand what was so funny, but I was glad our fight was over.”

Initially, Ms. Chua said, she wrote large chunks about her husband and their conflicts overchild rearing. But she gave him approval on every page, and when he kept insisting she was putting words in his mouth, it became easier to leave him out.

“It’s more my story,” she said. “I was the one that in a very overconfident immigrant way thought I knew exactly how to raise my kids. My husband was much more typical. He had a lot of anxiety, he didn’t think he knew all the right choices.” And, she said, “I was the one willing to put in the hours.”

Still, she said, her children got pancakes and trips to water parks because of their father, the son of parents more inclined to encourage self-discovery.

The reaction to the book was particularly anguished among those who are products of extreme Asian parents. “I’m horrified that she’s American-born and hanging on to this, when most of us are trying to escape it,” said Betty Ming Liu, the daughter of Chinese immigrants from Vietnam and author of one of the many blog posts about the book. A California woman recalled how her sister became the perfect Asian daughter Ms. Chua aspires to produce, only to kill herself because she was afraid to tell anyone she suffered from depression.

Ann Hulbert, the author of “Raising America,” a history of a century’s worth of conflicting child-rearing advice, who is writing a book about child prodigies, notes that it is not hard to reignite the Mommy Wars.

“There is a kind of utter certainty in her writing,” she said of Ms. Chua, “and that confidence goes so against the underlying grain of American parenting and child-rearing expertise that it immediately elicits a response that then suggests a kind of certainty on the other side that isn’t there, either.”

Friends describe Ms. Chua as self-deprecating and a dry wit, her children as happy, and their home as humming with music and activity and, yes, love.

“Not that she’s without opinion, but she’s writing a memoir, not a parenting guide,” said Alexis Contant, who describes Ms. Chua as her closest friend for 20 years. “She will say sleepovers are overrated, but I have never heard her say, ‘I can’t believe so-and-so let their kid do it.’ ”

Ms. Chua said that her daughters have been eager to speak out in favor of the book; she is shielding them from the publicity. She said, however, that they did ultimately have play dates — though not many between the ages of 9 and 13, due to music practice. Sophia, now 18, has a boyfriend, she told me. “My kids have whatever those things are called — iPods,” she said. “They have iTunes accounts.”

Ms. Chua wrote most of the book in eight weeks, yet struggled with the end, she said, reflecting the East-West tug on her parenting. “It’s a work in progress,” she said. “On bad days I would say this method is terrible. I just need to give them freedom and choice. On good days, when Lulu would say: ‘I’m so glad you made me write that second draft of my essay. My teacher read it out loud,’ I think, I’ve got to stick to my guns.”

This week, her book tour will take her to the places where she has surely sparked the most debate: the Bay Area, Cambridge and the northwest quadrant of Washington.

But first, the family was planning to celebrate Lulu’s 15th birthday. They were taking her and eight of her friends to New York City. For a sleepover.