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Why did Arizona punt with 2 minutes and change? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter biggamer3
- Start date
NJ
Footballguy
I watched the game, I have Warner, Edge and Fitz and I was screaming at the TV. It was a horrible decision, I've seen coaches do it with 2 and change when they have a great D and 3 timeouts and they can count on getting the ball back with 2 minutes, but Arizona wasn't able to stop the Washington offense all day, I knew as soon as they punted they were never getting the ball back. I wanted a Warner to Fitz TD and overtime. I was sick when I saw the punt unit come on.
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
I thought it was pretty conservative. If you have Kurt Warner, Boldin and Fitz and it's only 4th and 4, I think you go for it. Not only that, the Cards were down by 7. I could see it if you were down by 3 as you'd only have to get down to around Washington's 30 yard line for a field goal attempt. So, if you got the ball back say with 1 minute or something, you wouldn't have to get all the way into the endzone. However, being down 7 points and at the very best getting the ball back with limited time on the clock, that makes it tough to get all the way back into the endzone. I think he'll take some heat for not taking a shot at 4th and 4 with an above average offense.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I had to check the date of your post because I remember them doing the EXACT same thing last year too. EXACTLY the same.It doesn't make any sense. If you give the ball over to the other team, a first down by them ends the game either way, so it's not like you need to worry about putting the other team closer to scoring range.The ONLY benefit it has is that if you punt it and IF you stop them 3 and out you'd get better field position than if you went for it and failed and then held them to 3 and out. But that's a LOT of "ifs" to go through for a little field position compared to just picking up a 4th and 4, which is extremely manageable.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
It's amazing how many head coaches do stupid things regularly. Romeo kicking the FG against the Steelers last week, for example. Or today, the Lions scored a TD in the 4th quarter to make it 28-12, and they kicked the PAT instead of going for two. Take the one, and you've made the tie require that you go 2 for 2 on PAT kicks and 1 for 1 on 2-pt conversions. Go for two there, and it makes a tie require EITHER 2 for 2 on PAT kicks and 1 for 1 on 2-pt conversions OR 2 for 3 on 2-pt conversions. No debate, going for 2 on that TD makes it easier to tie the game, yet the coach didn't seem to know that.
The Colts went for it in the same situation, scored and took the lead. Unfortunately they scored too quickly and gave Jacksonville over a minute to get into field goal position.
biggamer3
Footballguy
At least Dungy made the right decisions The Cardinals have as good a passing team as any, and 4th and 4 should not be too difficult, this still boggles my mind how dumb NFL coaches can be
Northbound Train
Footballguy
Being a Lionsjunkie I hate to give this coaching staff any credit...but they made the right call here w/o a doubt.You get the PAT there, then the next TD as well and go for 2 to tie it up ... that way you only need to get one 2 pt conversion.Had you went for 2 when the score was 28-12 and missed you'd have to go and be successful TWO more times, just for the tie... not likely any team converts that many 2 pointers let alone the powerful Lions
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
Kick the 37-yard FG with 1:21 left and you've got well over a minute left to score a TD (assuming you recover the onside kick).Instead, they let the clock run down to :37, which meant that they would still have to go for a TD if they recovered the onside kick!!!
They basically wasted 40 valuable seconds.
gman74
Footballguy
It was 4th and 15 and there was a backup QB in the game. Horrible coachingKick the 37-yard FG with 1:21 left and you've got well over a minute left to score a TD (assuming you recover the onside kick).
Instead, they let the clock run down to :37, which meant that they would still have to go for a TD if they recovered the onside kick!!!
They basically wasted 40 valuable seconds.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
I had over 42 in that game. What happened on the TD to Devin Thomas that got called back. What was the penalty call? Thanks.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I think you're missing the point.Either way you do it, you need one 2-pt conversion and two PATs. You go for the two earlier, so then you know what you need later on. That way if you miss it, you can go for two again.It's like playing defense first in overtime in college. You see what happens first, then if they score a TD first you know not to kick a FG. Same thing here. You go for 2 after the first one, that way on the second one you know if you should bypass the PAT.There's no reason in that case to wait. If you do it your way and miss the two point conversion you're screwed, and you end up two points short. If you do it Northbound's way and miss the first two point conversion then you still have a chance to tie it with only two scores.Northbound Train said:Being a Lionsjunkie I hate to give this coaching staff any credit...but they made the right call here w/o a doubt.You get the PAT there, then the next TD as well and go for 2 to tie it up ... that way you only need to get one 2 pt conversion.Had you went for 2 when the score was 28-12 and missed you'd have to go and be successful TWO more times, just for the tie... not likely any team converts that many 2 pointers let alone the powerful LionsRich Conway said:
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
It was pretty funny because I have Santonio Holmes in a league so I was rooting for a garbage time TD. As soon as the sack came up making it 4th and long I said "damnit, now they're just going to kick the FG". Then, the offense stayed out and someone said "well luckily for you Tomlin is an idiot, so Holmes still has a chance."[scooter] said:gman74 said:
Instead, they let the clock run down to :37, which meant that they would still have to go for a TD if they recovered the onside kick!!!
They basically wasted 40 valuable seconds.
NJ
Footballguy
Unnecessary Roughness. It looked like basically once the ball was thrown, the defensive linemen stopped rushing and turned around to see what was happening and one of the offensive linemen took the opportunity to take a cheap shot and jacked the guy up from the side/back, he layed his shoulder into his side while he was just standing there doing nothing and took him off his feet and slammed to the ground.Pat Patriot said:
i for one will never understand this line of thinking either. I would rather have the mathematical scenario all laid out in front of me and have control over it. NFL coaches always wait til the very end. Why risk coming all the way back just to see your team fail on a two point conversion with time expired. Its no different than if there is 6 minutes left in the game and you are down by 15. If you score a TD why on earth not go for two immediately? If you miss it, you know you will need to score two more times. So you can then go for the onside kick or go no huddle earlier than you would.I think you're missing the point.Either way you do it, you need one 2-pt conversion and two PATs. You go for the two earlier, so then you know what you need later on. That way if you miss it, you can go for two again.It's like playing defense first in overtime in college. You see what happens first, then if they score a TD first you know not to kick a FG. Same thing here. You go for 2 after the first one, that way on the second one you know if you should bypass the PAT.There's no reason in that case to wait. If you do it your way and miss the two point conversion you're screwed, and you end up two points short. If you do it Northbound's way and miss the first two point conversion then you still have a chance to tie it with only two scores.Northbound Train said:Being a Lionsjunkie I hate to give this coaching staff any credit...but they made the right call here w/o a doubt.You get the PAT there, then the next TD as well and go for 2 to tie it up ... that way you only need to get one 2 pt conversion.Had you went for 2 when the score was 28-12 and missed you'd have to go and be successful TWO more times, just for the tie... not likely any team converts that many 2 pointers let alone the powerful LionsRich Conway said:
I didn't see this part of the game as I was watching the end of DEN-NO. I don't know the story behind the 40 seconds wasted, but going for it on 4th & 15 from the 18(this is approx where they'd be for a 37-yard FG, I think) is the optimal play. Kicking a field goal that close essentially squanders your field position and it's prohibitively difficult to to advance it that far again and then score a TD after an onside kick with a minute or so left. The aggressive play is best here as long as tons of time is not wasted figuring it out.[scooter] said:gman74 said:
Instead, they let the clock run down to :37, which meant that they would still have to go for a TD if they recovered the onside kick!!!
They basically wasted 40 valuable seconds.
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Why was it absurd? I really think you're much more likely to score a quick TD in one play from the 18 than to advance the ball 60 yards in 30 seconds for a TD.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Coaches can hang it on the defense if they punt and then don't get a stop. If the coach decides to go for it on 4th down and doesn't convert, then the coach gets the blame. It's the difference between a coach that coaches to win and a coach that is coaching in order to try not to lose their job.
Stephon Heyer, ORT for Washington, decked Darnell Dockett away from the ball. I have no idea about the history of that matchup, but here's a quote from Clinton Portis after the game:"That [68-yard TD pass] could have settled the game for us. We can't have those [15-yard penalty] plays." Portis then added mischeouvsly "But Stephon pretty much whacked him out. That guy [Dockett] played dirty all game. I'm glad he [Heyer] got him."As for that punt with 2:28 to go, everyone in the stands looked around and breathed a sigh of relief. Everyone knew Arizona wouldn't get a better chance. Very poor call by the Whisenhunt. Way too conservative.
