MCguidance
Footballguy
It's either good sport fishing or bad insight into FF. I don't know which is worse.
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Why do people like Moreno (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter LHUCKS
- Start date
cubbie5150
Footballguy
Wow, this thread is still getting a lot of action. Moreno looks to be a "safe" RB2 (especially assuming CBuck is back in a couple weeks), so I'm not quite sure why he's such a polarizing figure.
DoubleG
Footballguy
I beleive LHUCKS is the polarizing figure in this thread at this point. That Moreno has/will outperform his ADP is academic and a given.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Thank you for the damage control SSOG.But none of us has that much time.
50/50 timeshare? What 50/50 timeshare?Game 2- 17 carries for Moreno, 9 for BuckhalterGame 3- 21 carries for Moreno, 14 for BuckhalterGame 6- 18 carries for Moreno, 10 for BuckhalterTotal- 56 for Moreno, 33 for Buckhalter, or a 63/37 split.There's been no problem with the number of touches Moreno's been getting. He's averaged 18.7 carries a game in his last three games with Buckhalter on the field (more than he averaged in his two games without Buckhalter, for what it's worth). Over a full season, that's 299 carries, which would have ranked him 6th in the league last year. Any concern over his number of touches is radically overblown. The real concern should be the fact that he's only on pace for 5 TDs.
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Football Jones
Footballguy
This was kind of a weird game, but Moreno has been getting plenty of touches (19 tonight). I believe he's going to be a monster in dynasty leagues running behind that line, but redrafters will have to hope for the best. He does have a decent chance to take over feature back duties sometime this season, though. Remember, he basically missed camp, so Moreno is just now starting to get his sealegs. He's only scratched the surface of what he's capable of doing. Eventually, Moreno will be a top-notch FF RB, IMO. And like I said, Moreno is getting a pretty significant amount of touches now. It's only a matter of time.
theglorydays
Footballguy
I'm really counting on Moreno this year, I hope he can continue to get the majority of the touches.
cubbie5150
Footballguy
CBuck put the ball on the ground again tonight... Does that even the count on the year between, w/ both he & Knowshon w/ 2 each?
I just hope Knowshon can avoid the dreaded "rookie wall", as I am really wanting to use him as my RB2 the last few weeks of the season when the schedule looks pretty good
I just hope Knowshon can avoid the dreaded "rookie wall", as I am really wanting to use him as my RB2 the last few weeks of the season when the schedule looks pretty good
Was watching this situation very closely last night. Once again, Bucky was getting at least half the carries and then he got dinged up somehow on the fumble. It looked liked he was shaking his hand, but then in the background you could see Moreno standing with him and they were both looking down at his ankle area as if inspecting something that hurt (could have been looking at hand).
Next series, Moreno carries twice and then jumps up and immediately starts to the sideline for a step or two, then appears to be told to stay on. This last series or two is when he got most of the 8 "extra" carries over Bucky.
Question is, was he left in because of the fumble, because of injury, or because he's better?
As a Moreno owner, I want to believe you SSOG I'm just not sure you're 100% right when I watch how the games play out. I now the touches have worked out mathematically in the end, but how it ends up that way in week 4 and week 6 seems to be injury oriented.
Next series, Moreno carries twice and then jumps up and immediately starts to the sideline for a step or two, then appears to be told to stay on. This last series or two is when he got most of the 8 "extra" carries over Bucky.
Question is, was he left in because of the fumble, because of injury, or because he's better?
As a Moreno owner, I want to believe you SSOG I'm just not sure you're 100% right when I watch how the games play out. I now the touches have worked out mathematically in the end, but how it ends up that way in week 4 and week 6 seems to be injury oriented.
packersfan
Footballguy
Last night was the first time this season I became concerned about Moreno. I thought he looked pretty bad in a good matchup. It reminded me of the Addai-Rhodes situation from last season. Addai was the younger starter who didn't look all that good and he was outplayed by the older veteran. I thought Buckhalter looked a lot better last night. He made more things happen. He's also a key element in the passing game whereas Moreno is a non-factor.
I'm becoming concerned that after seven weeks the first-round pick can't shake the veteran and while it's good that Moreno is getting more carries, it's a concern he didn't do much with them last night. I wasn't expecting him to be Adrian Peterson or anything but I did hope he'd show more last night than he did. It certainly wasn't for lack of opportunity. His schedule coming out of the bye isn't all that appealing either:
Week 8: at Baltimore
Week 9 : vs. Pittsburgh
Week 10 : at Washington
Week 11: vs. San Diego (who just shut him down)
Week 12: vs. Giants
I'm wondering if now's a good time to look into trading Moreno while his value is still somewhat high.
I'm becoming concerned that after seven weeks the first-round pick can't shake the veteran and while it's good that Moreno is getting more carries, it's a concern he didn't do much with them last night. I wasn't expecting him to be Adrian Peterson or anything but I did hope he'd show more last night than he did. It certainly wasn't for lack of opportunity. His schedule coming out of the bye isn't all that appealing either:
Week 8: at Baltimore
Week 9 : vs. Pittsburgh
Week 10 : at Washington
Week 11: vs. San Diego (who just shut him down)
Week 12: vs. Giants
I'm wondering if now's a good time to look into trading Moreno while his value is still somewhat high.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
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Good call, HUCKS.The sharkpool could never really handle a contrarian viewpoint...comical really.
packersfan
Footballguy
Agreed. I'm cutting bait with Moreno this week barring something unforeseen. He simply doesn't look like a good RB. Maybe he'll become one someday but he's regressing and in a bad situation given how good Buckhalter looks and considering Moreno has no role in the passing game other than being a spectator.Good call, HUCKS.The sharkpool could never really handle a contrarian viewpoint...comical really.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Good call, HUCKS.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
people were also down on Mendenhall not too long agoGood call, HUCKS. :X
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cmv5
Footballguy
It is soooo much better if you let somebody else pat you on the back.
I will say it definitely looks like Moreno is regressing. The games I have seen he is making way too many mistakes. I believe we might not see the real Moreno until next season. He is pressing too hard and is playing nervous. It would help if he just relaxed and played.
I will say it definitely looks like Moreno is regressing. The games I have seen he is making way too many mistakes. I believe we might not see the real Moreno until next season. He is pressing too hard and is playing nervous. It would help if he just relaxed and played.
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DoubleG
Footballguy
Sounds good. Better cut Roddy White, Marques Colston, DeSean Jackson and Austin Collie - they all had bad games this past week too. And you did cut Gore two weeks ago after his bad week against Houston, didn't you? Hate to have all that dead weight on a roster.Let's be sure and bump this thread after he plays against Washington next week, okay Sparky?Agreed. I'm cutting bait with Moreno this week barring something unforeseen. He simply doesn't look like a good RB. Maybe he'll become one someday but he's regressing and in a bad situation given how good Buckhalter looks and considering Moreno has no role in the passing game other than being a spectator.Good call, HUCKS.
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MCguidance
Footballguy
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut.
In all seriousness, this was a good gut call at this point.
In all seriousness, this was a good gut call at this point.
packersfan
Footballguy
So let me see if I have this straight - you're comparing Moreno to proven fantasy studs such as Roddy White, Marques Colston and Frank Gore? Tell you what - how about we bump this thread when Moreno comes remotely close to their level of production. Assuming you have the patience to wait that one out.DoubleG said:Sounds good. Better cut Roddy White, Marques Colston, DeSean Jackson and Austin Collie - they all had bad games this past week too. And you did cut Gore two weeks ago after his bad week against Houston, didn't you? Hate to have all that dead weight on a roster.Let's be sure and bump this thread after he plays against Washington next week, okay Sparky?
DoubleG
Footballguy
No, how about we bump this thread when he lives up to/surpasses/fails to live up to his ADP - which is the point of this thread. Not "Oh look he had a bad game or two out of 16 so let's jump in and pat ourselves on the back this week."Incidentally, I noticed you left Austin Collie and DeSean Jackson out.So let me see if I have this straight - you're comparing Moreno to proven fantasy studs such as Roddy White, Marques Colston and Frank Gore? Tell you what - how about we bump this thread when Moreno comes remotely close to their level of production. Assuming you have the patience to wait that one out.DoubleG said:Sounds good. Better cut Roddy White, Marques Colston, DeSean Jackson and Austin Collie - they all had bad games this past week too. And you did cut Gore two weeks ago after his bad week against Houston, didn't you? Hate to have all that dead weight on a roster.Let's be sure and bump this thread after he plays against Washington next week, okay Sparky?
packersfan
Footballguy
First off, I'm a Moreno owner so I'm hardly thrilled that he's lost his starting job and has performed poorly three games in a row. Yes he scored last week and that helped his fantasy day but his production has been trending downward for the past several games. That is not a good sign. Secondly, comparing Moreno to proven studs who have a bad game makes little sense to me. People aren't going to get worked up too badly if Marques Colston has a bad game because he's a proven stud who, when healthy, is going to deliver more often than not. The same cannot be said about Moreno, who is a rookie with an unproven resume. Even DeSean Jackson has been a fantasy stud this season so if he has a bad game it's easier to brush off because he's been so good all season long. Again, the same can't be said about Moreno. As far as Collie, he's a No. 3 WR. Even though he's on a terrific team, he is not someone, in my opinion, who fantasy owners should be counting on to deliver consistently. Finally, you failed to ask me a rather important question and that is my specific league requirements. Without going into unnecessary detail let me just say that the league format I'm in makes it extremely difficult to carry a player who is performing poorly. So dropping Moreno is not just a knee-jerk reaction (although when a player loses his starting job and has three bad weeks of production, it's hardly a knee-jerk reaction in the first place, but I digress). I do not want to drop Moreno but given my league's format I may do so this week because I need players who can produce consistently. Moreno simply isn't cutting it and given his declining role, declining production and unfavorable schedule I'm not confident he will unless Buckhalter gets hurt.No, how about we bump this thread when he lives up to/surpasses/fails to live up to his ADP - which is the point of this thread. Not "Oh look he had a bad game or two out of 16 so let's jump in and pat ourselves on the back this week."Incidentally, I noticed you left Austin Collie and DeSean Jackson out.So let me see if I have this straight - you're comparing Moreno to proven fantasy studs such as Roddy White, Marques Colston and Frank Gore? Tell you what - how about we bump this thread when Moreno comes remotely close to their level of production. Assuming you have the patience to wait that one out.DoubleG said:Sounds good. Better cut Roddy White, Marques Colston, DeSean Jackson and Austin Collie - they all had bad games this past week too. And you did cut Gore two weeks ago after his bad week against Houston, didn't you? Hate to have all that dead weight on a roster.Let's be sure and bump this thread after he plays against Washington next week, okay Sparky?
theglorydays
Footballguy
I haven't seen many Broncos games, but he seems to be getting outplayed by Buckhalter. He is averaged 3.7 ypc behind one of the best lines in the NFL. He isn't much of a threat to catch the ball either. I'm really dissappointed in Moreno...Thinking back i drafted him over Ray Rice , that decision is going to cost me the league...
, that decision is going to cost me the league...
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Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Meaning he's healthy?I guess that is something to hang your hat on. You certainly cannot speak of Moreno's ability. He looks like he doesn't believe in his own talent. I've seen some great moves that made me believe when he played at Georgia. His catching ability was superb. Great body control and sneaky quickness in the hole. Remember?He looks nothing like that now. I don't know what happened. Looks like he lost his "mojo".But back to your point. He's fine.It's not like Buckhalter is not impervious to injury. But then there is always Peyton Hillis, if Moreno can't "man up" and run the rock like he used to.I think the problem is with his mental toughness. At such a young age, and already he reminds me of the current washed up LT.Chaka said:
Chaka
Footballguy
Moreno has been bad the last three weeks (33 carries for 86yards, 2.6ypc 2 catches for -5 yards & 1 TD) but Buckhalter has not been stellar either (27 carries for 86 yards 3.2 ypc 12 catches for 63 yards & 0 TD).
I keep thinking back to William Green's rookie year when he did very little until week 10 (Jamel White was significantly outperforming him 583 yards, 4TDs to 166 yards & 1TD through 9 games) but then went on to put up 726 yards rushing, 108 yards receiving and 5 TDs over the final 7 games.
Knowshon owners are significantly well enough invested in the guy that I think it is reasonable to wait and see what Denver does against the #24 & #25 rushing defenses the next two weeks before pulling the plug entirely.
I keep thinking back to William Green's rookie year when he did very little until week 10 (Jamel White was significantly outperforming him 583 yards, 4TDs to 166 yards & 1TD through 9 games) but then went on to put up 726 yards rushing, 108 yards receiving and 5 TDs over the final 7 games.
Knowshon owners are significantly well enough invested in the guy that I think it is reasonable to wait and see what Denver does against the #24 & #25 rushing defenses the next two weeks before pulling the plug entirely.
moleculo
Footballguy
Even if, at the end of the day, Moreno ends up being a bust and LHUCKS was right, he still was unable to fully articulate why and give any type of reasonable argument. I'm all about the process. Within this thread, I've been chasing LHUCKS to show his work and give a reason why he felt that Moreno was overrated. He made some wild claims, made up some stats to support his position, and promised a big reveal as to why he felt Moreno was overrated, but failed to deliver. The only single point that LHUCKS might have gotten right is that the Den O would be deficient, but outside of the past 2 weeks, I don't think I'd call it a "trainwreck".kegtron said:Good call, HUCKS.LHUCKS said:
Let's review the pillars of LHUCKS claim:
Offense is a trainwreck - struggled past couple of weeks against top defenses. O hasn't been outstanding, but I'm not ready to write them off yet.
Missed time in preseason due to injury - check. This happened, and appeared to have an effect. I contend that this factored into his ADP.
Looked mediocre in preseason action - completely ridiculous. Moreno didn't look anything in pre-season; see above.
Rookie RBs that make an impact in FF don't come around often - completely debunked.
RB24 doesn't justify picking @ ADP55 - I have no idea where to go with this one. Apparently LHUCKS clings to some notion that you should draft a back w/ top 15 upside in the 5th round.
Also, here's who LHUCKS liked more than Moreno at that draft spot:
Carson Palmer (currently, QB12)
McFadden (injured, not sure where he would rank if healthy)
Addai (currently RB11, ranking helped by Donald Brown injury)
Larry Johnson (out of football)
LHUCKS
Footballguy
A) I'm not your secretaryB) I was banned for posting a thread in the FFA titled "birthday ***" , which was actually me just quoting a song, but whatever, I'm sure the mods had a good reason.
As a result, this thread was out of sight and out of mind...didn't really feel like coming in here with all the dooshery that was going on.C) You're way too serious, chill out or you're really not going to get any of my insight...I was doing you and the rest of the myopic posters on this board a favor.You were deal with it and move on...I forgot more about FF last week than most of the "sharks" on this board know...that's just the way it is.
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moleculo
Footballguy
a) you are the one who made the "I'll post stats that will hit you like a ton of bricks". If I ride you to post them, it's becasue I'm curious. You have never fleshed out your argument entirely; I'm merely trying to help you make better arguments.b) I'm well aware. "same as it ever was" and all that. You have been back since though, said you would get back to it after you got back from Europe, but nothing happened. Lo and behold, Moreno posts a few bad games, and you are back to slap it high...go figure.c) probably. I have no problem with different viewpoints - that's what makes boards like this great. But, I want people to support what they think with stats, reasonable projections, and well thought out opinions, as opposed to made up numbers which demonstrate ideas opposite of reality.d) I've been wrong way more than I've been right in my lifetime; I have no problem with beingA) I'm not your secretaryB) I was banned for posting a thread in the FFA titled "birthday ***" , which was actually me just quoting a song, but whatever, I'm sure the mods had a good reason.deal with it and move on...I forgot more about FF last week than most of the "sharks" on this board know...that's just the way it is.
. That's not what this is about.
packersfan
Footballguy
With regard to Addai, he's been a solid fantasy RB all season long, even when Brown was healthy. It certainly helps him that Brown has missed the last two games but it's not like he suddenly got better than Moreno due to Brown's injury. He's been better than Moreno the entire season thus far.
moleculo
Footballguy
agreed, but his ADP was actually slightly higher than Morenos. Probably not enough to make a big difference though, IMO he was drafted in about the same spot. Ray Rice was at about the same and has far exceeded that draft spot. Funny, Rice has not been mentioned previously in this thread.hindsight is always 20/20, but here's some backs that would have been available and a better pick in the late 5th (without reaching into ADP of round 8 or more):
5.11 Ray Rice
7.02 Ced Benson
7.07 Jonathan Stewart
Here's some guys drafted ahead or near Moreno who have scored less:
4.07 Darren McFadden
5.05 Marshawn Lynch (even pro-rated for missed games, he is behind Moreno)
6.01 Larry Johnson
6.03 Derrick Ward
6.06 Willie Parker
6.12 Felix Jones
ETA:
LHUCKS mentioned drafting outside the RB spot at that position. Here's some other notable choices with an ADP near Moreno's. Some would have been better choices, some would have not. blue = IMO a better pick than Moreno.
QB:
5.03 McNabb, Donovan PHI QB
5.12 Ryan, Matt ATL QB
6.04 Cutler, Jay CHI QB
6.05 Schaub, Matt HOU QB
7.06 Palmer, Carson CIN QB
WR:
5.01 Jackson, Vincent SDC WR
5.04 Gonzalez, Anthony IND WR
5.06 Edwards, Braylon CLE WR
5.08 Jackson, DeSean PHI WR
5.09 Royal, Eddie DEN WR
6.02 Holmes, Santonio PIT WR
6.07 Berrian, Bernard MIN WR
6.09 Ward, Hines PIT WR
6.1 Evans, Lee BUF WR
6.11 Moss, Santana WAS WR
7.03 Bryant, Antonio TBB WR
7.09 Driver, Donald GBP WR
7.1 Hester, Devin CHI WR
7.11 Cotchery, Jerricho NYJ WR
TE:
5.07 Clark, Dallas IND TE
6.08 Olsen, Greg CHI TE
7.01 Cooley, Chris WAS TE
7.12 Daniels, Owen HOU TE
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a) you are the one who made the "I'll post stats that will hit you like a ton of bricks". If I ride you to post them, it's becasue I'm curious. You have never fleshed out your argument entirely; I'm merely trying to help you make better arguments.b) I'm well aware. "same as it ever was" and all that. You have been back since though, said you would get back to it after you got back from Europe, but nothing happened. Lo and behold, Moreno posts a few bad games, and you are back to slap it high...go figure.c) probably. I have no problem with different viewpoints - that's what makes boards like this great. But, I want people to support what they think with stats, reasonable projections, and well thought out opinions, as opposed to made up numbers which demonstrate ideas opposite of reality.d) I've been wrong way more than I've been right in my lifetime; I have no problem with beingA) I'm not your secretaryB) I was banned for posting a thread in the FFA titled "birthday ***" , which was actually me just quoting a song, but whatever, I'm sure the mods had a good reason.As a result, this thread was out of sight and out of mind...didn't really feel like coming in here with all the dooshery that was going on.C) You're way too serious, chill out or your really not going to get any of my insight...I was doing you and the rest of this myopic board a favor.You were
We're all wrong plenty of times. There's nothing wrong with that. LHUCKS is in his own world where he can simply claim something then act shocked when people ask to see some stats or well thought out argument in support of his viewpoint. I'll give credit to someone when credit is due. No credit is due to LHUCKS on this one. I hope the newbies to this site don't do what I initially did and mistake his long windedness and refusal to hold logical arguments with others as some form of knowledge.Otherwise, this is simply a case of throwing enough crap at the wall and finally having something stick. Congratulations, your poop didn't drip off the ceiling.
It's well deserved. No matter how long (or how short) you've been here, if you're making quality contributions to the forum, people will notice and learn who you are, whether you realize it or not. If anyone out there thinks that you're toiling in obscurity or going unnoticed, I promise you that you're not. The Shark Pool sees, and the Shark Pool remembers.
Cheesedawg
Footballguy
It's well deserved. No matter how long (or how short) you've been here, if you're making quality contributions to the forum, people will notice and learn who you are, whether you realize it or not. If anyone out there thinks that you're toiling in obscurity or going unnoticed, I promise you that you're not. The Shark Pool sees, and the Shark Pool remembers.
