PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
is the lloyd case iron clad? did they find that murder weapon or have a witness?
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Why don't we discuss Aaron Hernandez here? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter DCThunder
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PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Has he confessed his role in 9/11 yet?
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
I understand thinking the lawyers could end up getting him off using some OJ type nonsense.
But I'm still nonplussed that people ACTUALLY think he's innocent.
That's utterly mind bottling.
But I'm still nonplussed that people ACTUALLY think he's innocent.
That's utterly mind bottling.
McGarnicle
Footballguy
I heard it was Colombian drug lords who did the murder and Hernandez was in the Hamptons attending a charity function.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
#### yea. but last i checked (and i forget where the case is) it wasnt a slam dunk case where big money attorneys couldnt possibly get him off.
my link
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Yeah that was my understanding too. Iron-clad in terms of whether I think he killed the guy, but not really iron-clad in terms of the prosecution's case/chances of a guilty verdict.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
They have a mountain of evidence here... When listening to the evidence from the arraignment, if I was on the jury, I wouldn't think twice about convicting.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Generally an arraignment is just presenting the charges and asking for a plea. I'm guessing most people sound guilty to everyone if the defense doesn't say anything.
Mister Martie
Footballguy
If this guy is really willing to kill a couple of random dudes over a spilled drink, I'm thinking his body count is higher than 3.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
yea an arraignment is far from a trial. casey anthony and oj were perceived to be slam dunks too. AH will have top notch lawyers. and with him killing all the witnesses, who knows how it will play out.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
The Patriots really should have been tipped off when he wore an "I (heart) shooting people" t-shirt to his workout.
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Rayderr
Footballguy
Reading about the new charges. Hernandez is ####ed. Eyewitnesses describing the vehicle and driver of the drive by shooting matching up to the vehicle Hernandez is caught on video driving at the scene around the time of the shooting. Plus they have the murder weapon which they say they can link to Hernandez. Doesn't matter if they can't prove who fired the gun. Prove the gun fire came from his car, it's over. If he fired, he's guilty of murder. If he's just driving and the passenger did the shooting, well, he's still guilty of murder because MA law states that assisting in a murder is the same as committing the murder.
James Bond
Footballguy
Pretty sure Hernandez knew Jimmy Hoffa.
Otis
Footballguy
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Yeah, mind-bottling. You know, when things are so crazy it gets your thoughts all trapped, like in a bottle?
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
The Fake ESPN @TheFakeESPN · 20h
I don't always drink beer, but when I do I prefer not to spill it on Aaron Hernandez.
I don't always drink beer, but when I do I prefer not to spill it on Aaron Hernandez.
Norman Paperman
Footballguy
Joe Summer
Footballguy
I didn't pay attention to Casey Anthony, but OJ was a slam dunk.
Aaron Hernandez being convicted for killing Lloyd is also a slam dunk.
Sometimes even the pros miss dunks, but not very often.
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St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
Who here hasn't considered murdering people over a spilled drink?
That's what I thought.
That's what I thought.
mquinnjr
Footballguy
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
johnnycakes
Footballguy
Just watched the local news... Looks like AH scored some wins in court yesterday.
Prosecutors won't be able to tell jurors about the 2012 murder that preceded Olin Lloyd's. Why is this important? It goes to the motive for Olin Lloyd's murder.
Prosecutors won't be able to show pics from a "celebrity website" that shows AH looking like a thug brandishing a gun.
Text messages sent by Olin Lloyd to his sister immediately prior to his death will also not be admitted.
Finally, prosecutors cannot talk about the guy Hernandez shot in the face in Florida in 2013.
How much tougher will this make the case to prosecute, FBG lawyers?
http://www.wcvb.com/news/expatriot-aaron-hernandez-due-back-in-court/30197050?absolute=true
Prosecutors won't be able to tell jurors about the 2012 murder that preceded Olin Lloyd's. Why is this important? It goes to the motive for Olin Lloyd's murder.
Prosecutors won't be able to show pics from a "celebrity website" that shows AH looking like a thug brandishing a gun.
Text messages sent by Olin Lloyd to his sister immediately prior to his death will also not be admitted.
Finally, prosecutors cannot talk about the guy Hernandez shot in the face in Florida in 2013.
How much tougher will this make the case to prosecute, FBG lawyers?
http://www.wcvb.com/news/expatriot-aaron-hernandez-due-back-in-court/30197050?absolute=true
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Hernandez's lawyers admit he was there when Lloyd was murdered.
This defense doesn't make sense to me. After all of that, to come out and say he was there? In Massachusetts, I thought it was still murder if you were part of the group that committed the murder? Either way, this seems odd to admit this during the closing arguments.
pats3in4
Footballguy
Hail Mary? Defense attorneys are probably convinced the jury will assume he was there based on other evidence presented. If they say he was there, but it was the other guys who conspired to murder while AH stood there in shock, perhaps they hope to create enough doubt about his intent and he avoids the "doesn't matter who pulled the trigger" murder rule in MA.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
...or at least get him a lesser sentence if they basically feel that he will be found guilty.
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
Faithful to the end... Hernandez friends should have rolled on him. Had to know he was going to roll on them...
Fat Nick
Footballguy
I imagine he had to have uttered the phrase, "If I beat this and you guys don't talk, I'll give you a ton of money," at some point...
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Thing is, from everything I've heard, they say he has a 50/50 chance of beating this one. But the other case is so rock solid, they said there's almost zero chance he beats that.
johnnycakes
Footballguy
Bah. They're setting up for appeal based on defense being an incompetent boob.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
I'll flat out admit I haven't kept up with it very well, but you're saying he's got a 50/50 shot of beating the Odin Lloyd case, but the case that basically went unsolved for several years is now the one that is rock solid? Wow. That's the exact opposite of what I would've guessed.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
This is what I've heard from the legal expert they have on all of the ESPN radio shows. I was surprised, too. I had no idea. But apparently they next case (which I think is a double murder) is pretty much air tight on him.
pats3in4
Footballguy
This thought crossed my mind. It seems too transparent, though, if the law doesn't allow for AH to claim ignorance at the scene. What are the repurcussions? AH would get a new trial, I guess, but would his attorney face disbarment?
randall146
Footballguy
The defense can't claim AH wasn't at the scene without losing all credibility with the jury. His footprints were there. His friends were there. There was video of four guys driving in. If they claimed AH wasn't there the jury wouldn't have listened to anything else they said.
No one's getting a new trial on ineffective assistance here. No one's getting disbarred. His lawyers are great and are doing well with what they have
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
JFC, has anyone watched the trial? The prosecutor (who was awful himself) has established AH was at the scene, there is no denying this... It needed to be addressed. He saved this for last so the prosecutor had little time to prepare a rebuttal. He had to give a reason. If AH wasn't a participant and wasn't commiting a felony, then it isn't joint venture. His lawyer wants them to believe wrong place, wrong time.
Regardless, for those who don't know about the other trial (double homicide), they've got the murder weapon and can connect it to AH, he's toast.
Regardless, for those who don't know about the other trial (double homicide), they've got the murder weapon and can connect it to AH, he's toast.
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TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
So the legal expert they always bring on ESPN was on Lebatard last night and he said now that the trial is over, he thinks AH's chances of getting off went from 50/50 to about 15%. He said the prosecutors did an amazing job and the defense had nothing to work with. He said both legal sides did a great job, so you can't say someone messed up or anything like that. He said the defense did the best they could with what they had, but he just doesn't think it was enough.
Should be interesting.
Should be interesting.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
I should add, the guy is a defense attorney. So it's not like he's biased for the prosecution.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
He can be there and still not be guilty of murder via the felony murder rule or whatever it is. I think the suggested "theory" is that his two friends randomly (or maybe while crazed on PCP or something) killed Lloyd and Hernandez had no idea it was going to happen. Not very believable, but as others have said, they couldn't really deny he was there, so might as well admit that and still try and squeeze in some reasonable doubt.
Kinda reminds me of when George Costanza is called out for banging a cleaning lady on a desk at work. He considers his options for a second, and then just goes with "Should I not have done that? I gotta claim ignorance on that one."
Kinda reminds me of when George Costanza is called out for banging a cleaning lady on a desk at work. He considers his options for a second, and then just goes with "Should I not have done that? I gotta claim ignorance on that one."
T Bell
Footballguy
I know what you're trying to argue, but felony murder operates almost the opposite of what you seem to think. Felony murder works as follows: if you are participating in any "violent felony"* and someone dies as part of that (even one of your cohort who's helping to commit the violent felony), you are guilty of murder just as if you'd pulled trigger (or did whatever else brought about the person's death). Felony murder is not a defense to a criminal charge; it IS the criminal charge.
I agree with you otherwise, though. admitting he was present is a major concession and a last ditch effort to get reasonable doubt. It's far more convincing (if you can carry it off) to say you were never there and weren't involved. The defense team obviously felt they couldn't argue that convincingly anymore and they've taken a fall-back position.
*Traditionally, "violent felonies" have included murder, robbery, rape, arson, kidnapping, assault and perhaps one or two others; the common thread is either a physical confrontation of some kind or out and out dangerous conduct. It doesn't include, for example, fraud.
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Fat Nick
Footballguy
So I have a serious question on the above...two scenarios I'm hoping someone can help me understand...I'll use Hernandez's name, but I'm not really speculating as to whether either of these may have happened, I'm more interested in the legal view...assuming they did.
Scenario 1 - Hernandez, Lloyd, and his buddies drive out to this industrial park to hang out. Nobody went against their will. While there, randomly, AH's buddies just pull out a gun and shoot Lloyd. Hernandez had no clue. Under this scenario, there was no participation by AH in a violent felony. He was just there. They didn't kidnap Lloyd or anything. Is AH guilty of murder here?
Scenario 2 - If scenario 1's answer is "no," then I guess my next question is whether the commission of a "violent felony" includes the cover-up...i.e. if Hernandez had no clue they were going to shoot Lloyd, and he didn't participate, he didn't play a role in any violent felony...until afterwards, when perhaps his "role" was to help with the cover-up. Does simply participating in the cover-up count? Consider a different case if it makes it easier to grasp...for those of you familiar with the Serial podcasts...Assume Adnand killed Hae by himself. Assume Jay helped Adnand bury her. Could Jay's participation in the cover-up after the fact make him eligible for a murder charge even though he had no role in her death?
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
I think the big issue is that Hernandez organized the two other guys to show up and that he was seen with a gun. There was a bunch of other evidence they talked about but I don't remember everything. But when you put it all together, it was hard to come away that AH went to that industrial park and could have been surprised that someone would unknowingly kill him.
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