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Why hasn't soccer caught on in America? (1 Viewer)

NewlyRetired said:
I am not arguing that soccer is more popular than those sports, I am arguing that plenty of people attend games in the US as a counter point to the sport not catching on.
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Comparing the attendance numbers of two leagues that play in indoor venues to a sport that play outside is disingenuous at best.

 
While the amount of televised soccer has exploded over the last decade (and really since the 2010 World Cup), I feel like soccer programming was initially "pushed" to American audiences to build interest. In other words, it's hard to tell whether or not soccer's profile in the U.S. would be where it is today without being primed by television -- especially since the 1994 World Cup. It doesn't seem to me like American audiences "pulled" to prompt programmers to broadcast more soccer, at least before the last several years. Was there not some kind of leap of faith on the part of soccer broadcasters 15-20 years ago?

It's reminiscent of the way ESPN was trying to inorganically grow women's college basketball in the late 1990s-early 2000s. Lots and lots of broadcasting doesn't make for must-see event television. However -- it is clear that soccer broadcasting has been and is worlds more successful than NCAA womens hoops broadcasting.

Contrast that with the way baseball, football (esp college), and basketball came up in American sports culture. All three grew roots in the era before television, when the live experience was king. That seems to give those sports a timeless quality, like they've been part of the American fabric forever and ever (which of course, is not true).

 
AAABatteries said:
I don't think so but happy to be wrong.  Those numbers will probably stay roughly the same - I think there will be about 50% the number of games but I'm willing to concede that most of those are weekend - maybe it would be a more fair comparison to do Braves weekend games attendance but I'm not going to bother to look.  Also, I'm not claiming it's more popular - I was just pointing out the idea that soccer hasn't caught on is ridiculous.
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It's AU's first season. They're a novelty for the millennials right now.  I'll be curious to see if their numbers hold up over time.

 
NewlyRetired said:
I am not arguing that soccer is more popular than those sports, I am arguing that plenty of people attend soccer games in the US as a counter point to the sport not catching on.
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Is "catching on" the right expression then?  Maybe it should be "gets more respect".

Soccer will always be the "red headed stepchild" in American sports, no matter how popular it gets, until the tried and true fans of the Big 4 in this country can extend to soccer the same manner in which they over look the certain "negative" aspects of their sport while wholeheartedly criticizing soccer for.*

Taking a Dive - Seems to happen a lot in Football/Basketball. There's an acceptance of tickey tack fouls in both of these sports. 

Low Score - A lot of the same opponents of soccer will tell you they love a 2-1 Football game or 1-0 hockey shutout.  Baseball fans love a pitchers duel. 

Keep away - All 4 sports have their versions of that strategy. 

* Or until they die off or their voice becomes irrelevant(older) in what drives popularity....something that is already happening. 

 
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Doug B said:
While the amount of televised soccer has exploded over the last decade (and really since the 2010 World Cup), I feel like soccer programming was initially "pushed" to American audiences to build interest. In other words, it's hard to tell whether or not soccer's profile in the U.S. would be where it is today without being primed by television -- especially since the 1994 World Cup. It doesn't seem to me like American audiences "pulled" to prompt programmers to broadcast more soccer, at least before the last several years. Was there not some kind of leap of faith on the part of soccer broadcasters 15-20 years ago?I).
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The turning point for the sport on TV came at the most unlikely time, which was the 2002 World Cup.

The Tv rights were so unwanted that no one bid on them, due in part to the games all being on in the middle of the night because the games were in Asia.  The few MLS owners at the time bought them for dirt cheap and they traded them to ESPN to get MLS games on the air.

Then the unexpected happened for ESPN in they started to draw ratings, significant one, at those odd hours.  Some of the games broke ratings records for their time slots (again, middle of the night).

After that, TV looked at soccer differently, and money slowly started to come in from tv, until it built up to the explosion of money the past 5-7 years.  Soccer, like other sports benefited from broadcasters hungry for live sport.

 
On that note, ratings for curling are soaring:

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/curling/terry-jones-curling-television-rating-continue-to-soar

Cricket is on the rise in europe:

https://www.thelocal.de/20140507/howzat-germany-experiencing-cricket-revival

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/aug/30/italy.cricket

soccer ratings on the decline in Europe:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/24/sky-sports-bt-sport-people-switching-football-off

It would be interesting if soccer finally caught on in the US while it dropped in popularity everywhere else.

 
elbowrm said:
Our best finish in the World Cup was 3rd in 1930.  We didn't even qualify for it from 1950-1990.

in the fall, it's soccer or football.  Now that youth participation in football is dropping, soccer would seem to be the natural beneficiary. Better atheletes choosing soccer = more competitive Team USA.

If USA ever won the World Cup the sport would explode in popularity.  
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Agree with this. If soccer is going to push though from what it is now it will take a big run in the World Cup 

 
I think the Fifa video game has led to more people being interested as well. When I first started coaching HS (2004), barely any kids cared about any professional league. Now, every kid wears some kind of pro soccer shirt to practice. 

 
elbowrm said:
Our best finish in the World Cup was 3rd in 1930.  We didn't even qualify for it from 1950-1990.

in the fall, it's soccer or football.  Now that youth participation in football is dropping, soccer would seem to be the natural beneficiary. Better atheletes choosing soccer = more competitive Team USA.

If USA ever won the World Cup the sport would explode in popularity.  
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Agree with this. If soccer is going to push though from what it is now it will take a big run in the World Cup 

 
Thunderlips said:
Is "catching on" the right expression then?  Maybe it should be "gets more respect".. 
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I don't know what the right expression is because I don't know what metrics the original poster is considering.  

All we can say is that every possible metric point we have shows the sport significantly more popular today than it was 10 years ago.  Whether that is enough to catch on or not depends on what that definition is.

 
And again, given how much of it is available on TV, I could give a crap whether it ever "catches on", "gets more respect" or whatever arbitrary brass ring people want to assign that it hasn't or will never ever reach.  I'm good.

 In fact I hope it never does catch on like the NFL (and I love the NFL).  In fact I'm worried that it's already gotten too much attention, with shark jumping NFL-like creations like VAR designed to "get it right", which instead ruined the experience of the confederations cup IMO.  I like the moral shades of gray in soccer, like never knowing exactly when injury time ends or the human imperfection of deciding if it was a dive or a foul, or if the striker was a millimeter offsides.

 
I know nothing about playing and paying for pop warner type football. But it will be interesting to see if some of the kids that may have played football shift to soccer. The cost for a ln elite travel program can be expensive. Is it the same for youth football. 

All you really need is a ball for both. 

 
AcerFC said:
I think the Fifa video game has led to more people being interested as well. When I first started coaching HS (2004), barely any kids cared about any professional league. Now, every kid wears some kind of pro soccer shirt to practice. 
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Never considered this but it does make sense

 
Riversco said:
On that note, ratings for curling are soaring:

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/curling/terry-jones-curling-television-rating-continue-to-soar

Cricket is on the rise in europe:

https://www.thelocal.de/20140507/howzat-germany-experiencing-cricket-revival

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/aug/30/italy.cricket

soccer ratings on the decline in Europe:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/24/sky-sports-bt-sport-people-switching-football-off

It would be interesting if soccer finally caught on in the US while it dropped in popularity everywhere else.
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Another niche sport ,Hurling, has a doubleheader at Fenway Park

AIG Fenway Hurling Classic and Irish Festival

Sunday, November 19, 2017

The AIG Fenway Hurling Classic and Irish Festival returns to Fenway Park with a doubleheader featuring four of the most prominent teams in the world.

In addition to Hurling, the festivities will include a lively Irish festival complete with Irish food, music, and dancing.

Match 1 - Rematch of the 2015 battle between Dublin and Galway

Match 2 - Clash of Champions - Clare (Division I National Hurling League Champion) and Tipperary (2016 All-Ireland Senior Hurling Champion)

Tickets will go on sale to the general public at 12 p.m. (noon) on Thursday, June 29.   Each ticket will be valid for both matches.

 
Tecumseh said:
So odds are that attendance will decrease by roughly a third.
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Atlanta seems to be following more of Seattle's path than other teams.  When Seattle joined, they broke the MLS average attendance record at 30k a game and never looked back, growing to into the 40k's now.   

Maybe some of the Atlanta guys can check in, but it has been a bigger hit down there than originally expected.  I think they originally hoped for a 20k type attendance when they made the expansion bid.  They have more than doubled that expectation in year 1.

 
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Maybe the entire world is switching out its top sports for other things right now, not just the US.  Viewership for the premier league keeps dropping every year.  NFL viewership dropped. MLB is going to play games in England in 2018-2019 and it makes sense to do it now because with soccer viewership tailing off, maybe there's finally a crack in the armor where baseball can break thru in England.

 
I think it's because 90% of the time, the ball is nowhere near the opponents goal.

In hockey, there is also not a lot of scoring but the puck is near the opponents net a lot of the time, so at least there's the possibility of scoring, thus more excitement.

 
Mr. Mojo said:
I think it's because 90% of the time, the ball is nowhere near the opponents goal.

In hockey, there is also not a lot of scoring but the puck is near the opponents net a lot of the time, so at least there's the possibility of scoring, thus more excitement.
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Fair point.    Way, way more shots on goal in hockey.   Most soccer games, the keeper is forced to make a few challenging saves at most.   Half the shots miss the goal by 10 yards.

 
The Dreaded Marco said:
Three main reasons IMO:  American sports fan does not like the concept of a tie game. There is not enough scoring.  The diving and faking of injuries. 

Only the 3rd reason bothers me. And I love the sport. 
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For me it is the the third reason.  It is comical how dramatic all of the players are.  It completely takes away from the sport.  I actually prefer watching the girls national team to the guys although if they are on I will watch both.

 
I think some think how much ESPN talks about a sports is directly proportional to how popular it is. 

For example, baseball is still more popular than basketball, but the way it gets talked about, you would think the opposite is true. 

 
Huge soccer fan, but I do think that the lack of scoring hurts the game.  Nothing more frustrating than waking up early on a Saturday in December to watch the EPL and you get a 0-0 draw because an inferior team decided to park the bus and play for a point.  As a fan of many other sports, there are certainly times when LOW scoring games are exciting.  Watching an incredible pitching performance or seeing an NHL goalie stand on his head for 60 minutes or watching a great NFL defense go to work have their appeal. But when its NO scoring, it just drives me nuts.

I know this will drive my friends in the soccer thread crazy, but I do think the game would be more fun to watch if 5-7 goals a game was the norm. I don't think there's any way to accomplish that without absolutely destroying the fabric of the game, but that's how I feel.  For me, the appeal of the game is watching incredible individual talents execute brilliant moments. Yeah, having those moments happen 4 times a game instead of MAYBE once would lessen their appeal a little bit, but I'd be willing to make that sacrifice to avoid 0-0 or 1-0 snooze fests. Not saying ALL low or no scoring games are boring, but most are.  The most obvious example of them not being boring is when the US team is playing. Nothing in sports does it for me like watching the US team score a great goal (especially in person).

But yeah, to say soccer hasn't "caught on" is nuts. Lots of people don't like it, but it is undoubtedly successful and not going anywhere.

 
TLEF316 said:
.I know this will drive my friends in the soccer thread crazy, but I do think the game would be more fun to watch if 5-7 goals a game was the norm. I don't think there's any way to accomplish that without absolutely destroying the fabric of the game, but that's how I feel.  .
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big fan of the sport too and I am right there with you on this topic.  

7 goals a game on average probably would need too many changes, but I think 5 on average would be achievable with small changes that would not alter the fabric of the sport too much.

But FIFA moves at a tectonic like speed so I don't expect this in my lifetime to happen.

 
TLEF316 said:
Huge soccer fan, but I do think that the lack of scoring hurts the game.  Nothing more frustrating than waking up early on a Saturday in December to watch the EPL and you get a 0-0 draw because an inferior team decided to park the bus and play for a point.  As a fan of many other sports, there are certainly times when LOW scoring games are exciting.  Watching an incredible pitching performance or seeing an NHL goalie stand on his head for 60 minutes or watching a great NFL defense go to work have their appeal. But when its NO scoring, it just drives me nuts.

I know this will drive my friends in the soccer thread crazy, but I do think the game would be more fun to watch if 5-7 goals a game was the norm. I don't think there's any way to accomplish that without absolutely destroying the fabric of the game, but that's how I feel.  For me, the appeal of the game is watching incredible individual talents execute brilliant moments. Yeah, having those moments happen 4 times a game instead of MAYBE once would lessen their appeal a little bit, but I'd be willing to make that sacrifice to avoid 0-0 or 1-0 snooze fests. Not saying ALL low or no scoring games are boring, but most are.  The most obvious example of them not being boring is when the US team is playing. Nothing in sports does it for me like watching the US team score a great goal (especially in person).

But yeah, to say soccer hasn't "caught on" is nuts. Lots of people don't like it, but it is undoubtedly successful and not going anywhere.
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I think American professional soccer needs larger goals. It seems like such an obvious solution to the scoring problem. I know the purists will  :lmao: this though.

 
If you could engineer more scoring how would you chose to do it? 

I think if you takeaway the goalies ability to use their hands it would increase scoring . Why do they get the ability to use their hands?

 
I'd also assign an off field official to monitor diving with cameras. If they catch you diving you are given a red card . That will stop diving fast

 
HellToupee said:
If you could engineer more scoring how would you chose to do it? 

I think if you takeaway the goalies ability to use their hands it would increase scoring . Why do they get the ability to use their hands?
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if you take away using hands for keepers you would likely get lacrosse level scoring.

If you are looking for a smaller leap in scoring, adjusting the offside rule and limiting keepers to using there hands in only the 6 yard box instead of the entire 18 yard box could add a goal or two per game easy.

 
NewlyRetired said:
if you take away using hands for keepers you would likely get lacrosse level scoring.

If you are looking for a smaller leap in scoring, adjusting the offside rule and limiting keepers to using there hands in only the 6 yard box instead of the entire 18 yard box could add a goal or two per game easy.
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I'd definitely like to reduce the travel of goalies . Maybe with a weighted vest or something out of the box like  snowshoes or something 

 
HellToupee said:
Well when I was in school it was for the less athletic guys to play. Maybe if in HS it was a spring sport instead of a fall sport . 
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My son plays soccer and he's the best athlete on the team. I really don't like soccer but after having watched him and my girls play for the last 10 years I now understand the game a lot more. I won't pay to go see a game but I will occasionally watch an epl game on NBC. I will definitely watch the world cup. The level of talent in those games is ridiculous. If the US can ever field similar talent teams the game will explode here.

I think the odds of that happening in the next 10-15 years is high. Mothers are not allowing their sons to play football like 30 years ago due to concussion risks. So now you're seeing the top youth athletes in soccer. That wave of talent will hit.

 
HellToupee said:
If you could engineer more scoring how would you chose to do it?
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The 1970s NASL (an old Pele on the New York Cosmos, etc.) had 35-yard lines that served the same (?) purposes as the blue lines in ice hockey. That legalized some kinds of offsides.

EDIT: link to a better explanation of the 35-yard line. Essentially, offsides was legal in the middle of the field, until the breakaway striker was 35 yards from the goal. So if the breakaway guy received the ball just before the 35-yard line, with only the goalie between the striker and the goal, it was a fair play.

 
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tommyboy said:
My son plays soccer and he's the best athlete on the team. I really don't like soccer but after having watched him and my girls play for the last 10 years I now understand the game a lot more. I won't pay to go see a game but I will occasionally watch an epl game on NBC. I will definitely watch the world cup. The level of talent in those games is ridiculous. If the US can ever field similar talent teams the game will explode here.

I think the odds of that happening in the next 10-15 years is high. Mothers are not allowing their sons to play football like 30 years ago due to concussion risks. So now you're seeing the top youth athletes in soccer. That wave of talent will hit.
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I was kidding about being less athletic. I like watching the international big games . MSL doesn't do it for me . Not a fair comp but that's how it is for me

 
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