Why hasn't soccer caught on in America? (1 Viewer)

[tommyboy]

And why are the officials so gullible? If they ignore the dives, the faking will stop.

Just change the rule:

if You are down for more than 1 minute you have to sit for minimum 30 mins of game time.

 

[Spartans Rule]

And why are the officials so gullible? If they ignore the dives, the faking will stop.

It's very difficult to tell the difference at high speed in the heat of action. Same reason every other sport has officiating issues.

And it's better to be wrong and let a guy get away with a dive than it is to be wrong and give a yellow card to a guy who just got his ankle broken.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Just change the rule:

if You are down for more than 1 minute you have to sit for minimum 30 mins of game time.

That would be a horrible rule.

Fakers would get up after 45-50 seconds. It would do nothing to deter them. Guys with legitimate minor injuries totally unrelated to diving would essentially get thrown out of the game.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

At one point about 25 years ago, when you passed in back, the goalie could pick it up.   Then they changed it where the goalie couldon't use his hands.  I'd think that removing the ability to pass it back would be the natural progression.  

So a team can't use their GK as a ball-playing teammate at all?  What if he's completely outside of the box, supporting the back 4 like Neuer often does?  I understand the sentiment, and completely support the bak-pass rule, but completely removing the GK as an option is much too extreme imo.

 

[NutterButter]

So a team can't use their GK as a ball-playing teammate at all?  What if he's completely outside of the box, supporting the back 4 like Neuer often does?  I understand the sentiment, and completely support the bak-pass rule, but completely removing the GK as an option is much too extreme imo.

I'm for that.  Might actual add some excitement on occasion when a team chooses to use that option.   

 

[NewlyRetired]

So a team can't use their GK as a ball-playing teammate at all?  What if he's completely outside of the box, supporting the back 4 like Neuer often does?  I understand the sentiment, and completely support the bak-pass rule, but completely removing the GK as an option is much too extreme imo.

there is a tiny compromise to be made between the two I think.  Right now FIFA still allows back passes as long as they don't come off the foot.   a few times a game defenders can use the to head or chest the ball back to keeper.  Maybe a removal of any back passes to the hands of the keeper would be a small improvement for the offense.

To be honest though it is probably too small of an improvement to waste a rare rule change on.

 

[Dentist]

All they would need to do is make the goals bigger and the game would be a huge hit 

 

[CletiusMaximus]

lol "would be"

 

[NutterButter]

All they would need to do is make the goals bigger and the game would be a huge hit 

I'm not sure how much that would help.  In a lot of games there's only a handful of legitimate shots on goal.   How big we talking? 

 

[Scoresman]

It's a message board guy.  This is kinda what we do here. 

Disagreeing with silly posts is what we do here too guy. 

 

[NutterButter]

Disagreeing with silly posts is what we do here too guy. 

Sorry, playing the arrogant American card seems a bit more than disageeing

 

[Scoresman]

Sorry, playing the arrogant American card seems a bit more than disageeing

Except there is a certain arrogance in thinking the game needs to be changed to suit our own selfish tastes for more scoring when it works just fine as is for billions of other people in the world. 

 

[HellToupee]

It's very difficult to tell the difference at high speed in the heat of action. Same reason every other sport has officiating issues.

And it's better to be wrong and let a guy get away with a dive than it is to be wrong and give a yellow card to a guy who just got his ankle broken.

An extra official off field reviewing plays would fix this

 

[NutterButter]

Except there is a certain arrogance in thinking the game needs to be changed to suit our own selfish tastes for more scoring when it works just fine as is for billions of other people in the world. 

You think people throughout the world aren't have these discussions?  We have these discussions about all sports.  That doesn't make us arrogant.  

 

[CletiusMaximus]

My son plays soccer and he's the best athlete on the team. I really don't like soccer but after having watched him and my girls play for the last 10 years I now understand the game a lot more. I won't pay to go see a game but I will occasionally watch an epl game on NBC. I will definitely watch the world cup. The level of talent in those games is ridiculous. If the US can ever field similar talent teams the game will explode here.

I think the odds of that happening in the next 10-15 years is high. Mothers are not allowing their sons to play football like 30 years ago due to concussion risks. So now you're seeing the top youth athletes in soccer. That wave of talent will hit.

The US won't be a perennial contender in our lifetime. Only 8 nations have ever won the world cup, and even a traditional powerhouse like England has only won it once, over 50 years ago.  The best we can probably hope for, as fans of US Soccer, is to reach the point where qualification every 4 years is routine, and anything less than getting out of the group stages is seen as a dismal failure.  That mindset is at least a generation away, probably 2.

 

[TwinTurbo]

I wouldn't want to see any rule changes other than one to decrease the diving. I think it really cheapens the game.  

I played competitively through college (in the late 80's) and don't remember teams regularly faking injuries to draw fouls. I realize this is a fairly common practice now in most men's leagues worldwide, and maybe it was back then and I just didn't recognize it, but is there a consensus on when this tactic became more common? Did a certain league or national team make this work to their advantage thus spawning copycats? 

Agreed. I don't want any rule changes other than to reduce and penalize diving, especially where a penalty kick or direct kick on goal would be involved. You can call it the Robben Rule.

You would probably need instant replay and booth review for some cases. But if the diver is rolling around on the ground faking injury, time is already being wasted anyway. 

 

[HellToupee]

Except there is a certain arrogance in thinking the game needs to be changed to suit our own selfish tastes for more scoring when it works just fine as is for billions of other people in the world. 

What if the goalie had to stay outside the goal area

 

[Dentist]

I'm not sure how much that would help.  In a lot of games there's only a handful of legitimate shots on goal.   How big we talking? 

20 percent.

Also no gloves for goalie I forgot that part

 

[Scoresman]

What if the goalie had to stay outside the goal area

I like seeing great saves as much as I do scoring so I wouldn't like that. 

 

[NutterButter]

20 percent.

Also no gloves for goalie I forgot that part

As an ex-goalie, can we compromise on the goalie not wearing shorts instead.

 

[Hov34]

2 balls at the same time.

 

[Nugget]

Lava. 

 

[NutterButter]

Lava. 

Seems impractical.   

 

[HellToupee]

Lava. 

The goal box is filled with chocolate pudding . The shark move would be to keep the ball in the air. The pudding should wreak havoc with the keepers footing

 

[JohnnyU]

It's like listening to a retro radio station in here.  These arguments are all well past their expiration date.

Another 5 years like the last 5 and the only people not watching soccer will be the ones who think Anne Coulter is speaking truth to power.

Funny catch phrases doesn't change the fact that it is a boring sport.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

The best we can probably hope for, as fans of US Soccer, is to reach the point where qualification every 4 years is routine, and anything less than getting out of the group stages is seen as a dismal failure.  That mindset is at least a generation away, probably 2.

Lots of respect for your knowledge CM, but disagree here.

We've qualified for every WC since 1990 -- eight in a row assuming we don't stumble down the stretch here.

And we've made it out of the group stage in 3 of the last 4 WCs (ahead of Portugal twice and England once).  It's a small group who can say that.  Looking at it the other way, Mexico has made it out of the group in seven straight World Cups.  And if there's a gap between us and them at this point it's very slim.

So IMO we're pretty close to the point you're describing (routine qualification, expect to get out of the group stage) right now.

I never bought into Project 2010 or anything, but I've always been optimistic about the trajectory here and I expect in the next 10 years you'll see multiple players come through who are as good or better than anyone we produced pre-Pulisic.  MLS will continue to grow sensibly and the money will continue to grow unsensibly.

The gap from where we are to Brazil/Germany and the teams of the moment will still be big (true for everyone who isn't riding a golden generation type wave), but by 2050 I expect the US will be among the teams people look to as legit contenders when things fall into place.

 

[Kafka]

The goal box is filled with chocolate pudding . The shark move would be to keep the ball in the air. The pudding should wreak havoc with the keepers footing

Tomas Brolin loves this idea.

 

[AAABatteries]

Funny catch phrases doesn't change the fact that it is a boring sport.

We're talking soccer here, not baseball.  Take it to the baseball forum grandpa.

 

[Kafka]

Funny catch phrases doesn't change the fact that it is a boring sport.

E tu, JohnnyU?

 

[NewlyRetired]

Lots of respect for your knowledge CM, but disagree here.

We've qualified for every WC since 1990 -- eight in a row assuming we don't stumble down the stretch here.

And we've made it out of the group stage in 3 of the last 4 WCs (ahead of Portugal twice and England once).  It's a small group who can say that.  Looking at it the other way, Mexico has made it out of the group in seven straight World Cups.  And if there's a gap between us and them at this point it's very slim.

So IMO we're pretty close to the point you're describing (routine qualification, expect to get out of the group stage) right now.

I never bought into Project 2010 or anything, but I've always been optimistic about the trajectory here and I expect in the next 10 years you'll see multiple players come through who are as good or better than anyone we produced pre-Pulisic.  MLS will continue to grow sensibly and the money will continue to grow unsensibly.

The gap from where we are to Brazil/Germany and the teams of the moment will still be big (true for everyone who isn't riding a golden generation type wave), but by 2050 I expect the US will be among the teams people look to as legit contenders when things fall into place.

I agree with every thing you said as it is all fact based but I think the key words in his post were "dismal failure" to get out of group.

I think getting out of the group, especially if it is a strong group is much closer to a good accomplishment than not getting out of the group is a dismal failure.

I will acknowledge that it is subjective though so no need to really argue one way or another too hard and with FIFA continuing to try and ruin the greatest sporting event in the world, the group stage is soon to be completely different anyway.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Yeah, I almost said something about that NR.  It's definitely not a dismal failure today.  OTOH, after 1998 and 2006 the coaches got fired and hands were wrung.  And, barring fluky stuff (posts PKs GK heroics), I think it's closer to "failure" when we don't advance than it is to "surprise".

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Lots of respect for your knowledge CM, but disagree here.

We've qualified for every WC since 1990 -- eight in a row assuming we don't stumble down the stretch here.

And we've made it out of the group stage in 3 of the last 4 WCs (ahead of Portugal twice and England once).  It's a small group who can say that.  Looking at it the other way, Mexico has made it out of the group in seven straight World Cups.  And if there's a gap between us and them at this point it's very slim.

So IMO we're pretty close to the point you're describing (routine qualification, expect to get out of the group stage) right now.

I never bought into Project 2010 or anything, but I've always been optimistic about the trajectory here and I expect in the next 10 years you'll see multiple players come through who are as good or better than anyone we produced pre-Pulisic.  MLS will continue to grow sensibly and the money will continue to grow unsensibly.

The gap from where we are to Brazil/Germany and the teams of the moment will still be big (true for everyone who isn't riding a golden generation type wave), but by 2050 I expect the US will be among the teams people look to as legit contenders when things fall into place.

It may just be semantics or hair-splitting, because while I don't necessarily disagree with any of your comments, I still think qualification is an adventure every 4 years and getting out of the group stage is often dependent on the draw more than anything.  Just looking at 2014, some pretty good nations like Spain, England, Italy, failed to advance out of their groups. That's a "dismal failure" for them, but on an entirely different level than it would be for us.  I don't think we're remotely on their level talent wise or tactically.  We're light years behind Holland or Belgium, but neither of those have ever won a world cup and are probably still in the category I describe above - fully expect to qualify and get through the group, after that its a crap-shoot.

 

[EYLive]

It's very difficult to tell the difference at high speed in the heat of action. Same reason every other sport has officiating issues.

And it's better to be wrong and let a guy get away with a dive than it is to be wrong and give a yellow card to a guy who just got his ankle broken.

League officials can watch replays after the games. Then fine and suspend fakers.

Not that it'd make me watch, but at least the sport would have some semblance of integrity.

 

[NewlyRetired]

League officials can watch replays after the games. Then fine and suspend fakers.

Not that it'd make me watch, but at least the sport would have some semblance of integrity.

many leagues around the world already do this.  FIFA as yet does not for international games.  It is more prevalent at the international level.

 It is rare to see in leagues like MLs or EPL.  Sure it happens but no more often than a basketball player faking a charge or a hockey player going down easy to get a penalty.

 

[wazoo11]

I was not expecting 5 pages.

 

[El Floppo]

It's the worst.

 

[RokNRole]

You have never seen a team run out the clock?  

You can't do that for long like soccer

 

[Native]

One simple rule change would be to attach a tether to the goalie & goal post to restrict movement 

I love this idea.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I love this idea.

making a bungee cord would be meme worthy  Any time a keeper over extends he can get to the ball but is then punished by the cord snapping him back into his own net.

 

[bagger]

Probably. If there were only 17 home games they would all be sellouts.

You sure about that?

 

[bagger]

Funny catch phrases doesn't change the fact that it is a boring sport.

This is why this forum needs downvotes. 

 

[Chadstroma]

The rest of the world is crazy about soccer because it is the sport of the poor. All you need is a ball- from there you can make goals from pretty much anything. 

The US has the wealth to have basketball, football, basebal, etcl- equipment that goes with it. And honestly, they are much more interesting. 

 

[Chadstroma]

Atlanta Braves avg attendance - 31,755

Atlanta United avg attendance - 46,482

So, we know how many foreigners live in Atlanta now. 

 

[Kafka]

The rest of the world is crazy about soccer because it is the sport of the poor. All you need is a ball- from there you can make goals from pretty much anything. 

The US has the wealth to have basketball, football, basebal, etcl- equipment that goes with it. And honestly, they are much more interesting. 

So, we know how many foreigners live in Atlanta now. 

Damn those poor foreigners!

 

[Tom Servo]

Good snark, Bro.

Keep away is a bit of a stretch in baseball but there are strategies that uber fans would say is enthralling but(IMO) to me makes the game more boring; intentional walks, the D shift, playing your LP/RP bullpen matchups.

Try "a really big stretch".  Since you've been watching every game, you obviously know that intentional walks are now a hand wave and not four pitches.

The other two are not playing keep away - that's called playing defense. God forbid we go back to the 1800s when Home Run Kelly could demand the pitcher put it on a tee for him.  

 

[Tom Servo]

I was not expecting 5 pages.

 

 

[Ned]

making a bungee cord would be meme worthy  Any time a keeper over extends he can get to the ball but is then punished by the cord snapping him back into his own net.

Combine this with the lava pits and we may have something. 

 

[comfortably numb]

It a obviously already caught on but the most interesting part for me to follow is how the American public deals with eventually having a top world talent...knowing that player would be playing in Europe.

Let's face it at this point MLS is essentially the AAA team for Europe's B teams.

A big WC would add short term interest but having a dominant US player to follow in EPL or LaLiga for 6-10 years is imo what would catapult soccer to its next level in the US.

 

[Ned]

It a obviously already caught on but the most interesting part for me to follow is how the American public deals with eventually having a top world talent...knowing that player would be playing in Europe.

Let's face it at this point MLS is essentially the AAA team for Europe's B teams.

A big WC would add short term interest but having a dominant US player to follow in EPL or LaLiga for 6-10 years is imo what would catapult soccer to its next level in the US.

We already have that, but he's in that lowly Bundesliga. 

 

[NewlyRetired]

It a obviously already caught on but the most interesting part for me to follow is how the American public deals with eventually having a top world talent...knowing that player would be playing in Europe.

Let's face it at this point MLS is essentially the AAA team for Europe's B teams.

A big WC would add short term interest but having a dominant US player to follow in EPL or LaLiga for 6-10 years is imo what would catapult soccer to its next level in the US.

as Ned alluded to, it won't be long until Pulisic makes the leap into the world's top 10-15 players if he continues his trajectory and stays healthy IMO.  I figure in 5 years when he turns 23, things should get real interesting.

The fact that he went from US high school player to being a major component on a Champions League team in a little over a year is still mind boggling.