Why is Robiskie's upside limited? (1 Viewer)

[Holy Schneikes]

Why is Robiskie's upside limited? What am I missing? The guy has everything the NFL seems to look for in a receiver except maybe upper-echelon speed. Everybody article I've read on him raves about most aspects of his game, but then winds up saying, "but he's got a limited upside" or something pretty close to that.

Nobody seems to say that about Britt or Nicks, but neither of them are burners either. And by all appearances, Robiskie is quicker and taller, a better route runner, has fantastic hands, and has excellent "character".

So what is it that is limiting Robiskie?

 

[Idiot Boxer]

Probably because he's also been labelled as the "most NFL ready" WR and you can't be both Craig.

 

[Warpig]

and has excellent "character".

There's your problem right there. People want the loud mouth, punk thugs on their team to mix things up and keep them in the news. "Boring" guys like Robiskie don't create enough of a buzz and get disrespected.He reminds me of Anthony Gonzalez. Quiet guy that does all the little things well. Except I think Robiskie's ceiling is a bit higher though. UNfortunately he doesn't have Manning throwing him the ball.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I think he is excellent value late in round 1 of dynasty rookie drafts. And might even be the defacto #1WR on cleveland as early as next year.

I think his vlaue might be higher in PPR leagues, this seems to be more his style of scoring system than heavy TD league. I think he will wind up a solid possesion type WR.

In re-draf this year he's probably waiver wire fodder in shallow leagues, WR6 type

 

[eire5199]

I agree that this is a valid question. He may not be 6'6", or run a 4.3. But he's a pretty complete package.

It's hard to imagine Braylon will still be there a year from now. There's no reason to shy away from Robiskie.

 

[metoo]

Why is Robiskie's upside limited? What am I missing? The guy has everything the NFL seems to look for in a receiver except maybe upper-echelon speed. Everybody article I've read on him raves about most aspects of his game, but then winds up saying, "but he's got a limited upside" or something pretty close to that.Nobody seems to say that about Britt or Nicks, but neither of them are burners either. And by all appearances, Robiskie is quicker and taller, a better route runner, has fantastic hands, and has excellent "character".So what is it that is limiting Robiskie?

I don't why he's so low but I'll take. I think he'll catch more balls than any other Cleveland receiver.

 

[EBF]

In some ways his draft profile is similar to Reggie Wayne's. He doesn't have overpowering strength or blazing speed, but he runs decent routes and catches the ball well. I don't think he's that good though. I think he's a lot closer to Michael Jenkins and Jabar Gaffney. Maybe I'm missing the boat here, but I've been avoiding him like poison in all my leagues. He strikes me as the type of guy who will come in and maybe get 700-800 yards as a rookie, but never really improve (sort of like Reggie Brown). He just doesn't have any special physical qualities.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Nobody seems to say that about Britt or Nicks, but neither of them are burners either. And by all appearances, Robiskie is quicker and taller, a better route runner, has fantastic hands, and has excellent "character".

I think you hit the nail squarely on the head with these points.I think he's an excellent buy and hold.

 

[Football Jones]

No other prospect grew on me more during the draft process this year than Mohamed Massaquoi. Robiskie could be a fine NFL #2, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if Massaquoi ends up being Cleveland's eventual #1 (after Edwards leaves). I can see Robiskie having a better rookie season, but my FF money is on Massaquoi (longterm).

 

[Holy Schneikes]

In some ways his draft profile is similar to Reggie Wayne's. He doesn't have overpowering strength or blazing speed, but he runs decent routes and catches the ball well. I don't think he's that good though. I think he's a lot closer to Michael Jenkins and Jabar Gaffney. Maybe I'm missing the boat here, but I've been avoiding him like poison in all my leagues. He strikes me as the type of guy who will come in and maybe get 700-800 yards as a rookie, but never really improve (sort of like Reggie Brown). He just doesn't have any special physical qualities.

This comes closest to actually giving an answer to the question, but I'm still confused. What "special physical qualities" does he lack that you are looking for?He's 6.3" and ran a 6.72 3-cone drill. That seems pretty special to me. He had a better vert than Nicks or Britt. His speed, at least on paper is about the same as those guys.Do Nicks or Britt have overpowering strength or blazing speed?Let's take the discussion to a level that will end with me mercilessly mocked and abused. What does CRABTREE have that Robiskie doesn't, except the incredible college stats? Is it possible that Robiskie could have generated those stats had the two players swapped schools (or more specifically offensive schemes)?What are Crabtree's special physical qualities?Basically, I'm just saying that you seem to be in the same boat with most reasonable people. Robiskie just doesn't seem to you to be a special player, but there still aren't any obvious answers to the question "Why?".

 

[Holy Schneikes]

No other prospect grew on me more during the draft process this year than Mohamed Massaquoi. Robiskie could be a fine NFL #2, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if Massaquoi ends up being Cleveland's eventual #1 (after Edwards leaves). I can see Robiskie having a better rookie season, but my FF money is on Massaquoi (longterm).

OK, why? What is Massaquoi better at?

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

He's not very sudden or speedy or athletic. He's not going to make game changing plays. In other words, he's a technician who can create some separation with precise routes, and win the battle of adjusting to the ball in flight, but he won't win many footraces or make guys miss after the catch, or make catches that few NFL WRs could make. It's not death for his fantasy upside, I don't think Housh is much different, and he had a terrific 06/07. Like Housh, Robiskie probably won't have a high YPC, but he could end up being a PPR stud if things come together.

I will say that if Edwards leaves Cleveland in free agency or via trade, Robiskie will struggle to get open. Housh had to have that deep receiver distracting the safeties to create the space to work the middle and constantly face single coverage. If Brady Quinn doesn't develop, Robiskie could also have some problems. He seems like he would do best in a timing based offense with an accurate passer. Anderson is certainly not that guy, he's more of a "throw it up there and let the athlete make an athletic play" type of QB. Quinn ran the Weis offense well, but has trouble on downfield accuracy, which could actually help Robiskie, because he doesn't have the speed to be used frequently as a deep threat.

As far as comparing him to Britt or Nicks:

Britt has the deep speed to threaten the safeties and he's strong like bull which gives him a better big play profile.

Nicks has ridiculous hands and body control, and he's surprisingly elusive and strong running after the catch, he could be more of a "take over the game" kind of wideout.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

In some ways his draft profile is similar to Reggie Wayne's. He doesn't have overpowering strength or blazing speed, but he runs decent routes and catches the ball well. I don't think he's that good though. I think he's a lot closer to Michael Jenkins and Jabar Gaffney. Maybe I'm missing the boat here, but I've been avoiding him like poison in all my leagues. He strikes me as the type of guy who will come in and maybe get 700-800 yards as a rookie, but never really improve (sort of like Reggie Brown). He just doesn't have any special physical qualities.

This comes closest to actually giving an answer to the question, but I'm still confused. What "special physical qualities" does he lack that you are looking for?He's 6.3" and ran a 6.72 3-cone drill. That seems pretty special to me. He had a better vert than Nicks or Britt. His speed, at least on paper is about the same as those guys.

He can change speeds and direction well in his routes, but that quickness doesn't translate to the ability to make things happen after the catch. Britt has a second gear that Robiskie does not have. Robiskie is tall, but he's not really an explosive leaper who can dominate on jumpballs - of course neither is Nicks or Britt.

Do Nicks or Britt have overpowering strength or blazing speed?

Britt has the strength, but Nicks doesn't possess either of those qualities.

Let's take the discussion to a level that will end with me mercilessly mocked and abused. What does CRABTREE have that Robiskie doesn't, except the incredible college stats? Is it possible that Robiskie could have generated those stats had the two players swapped schools (or more specifically offensive schemes)?What are Crabtree's special physical qualities?

Honestly, Crabtree isn't special physically. It's his game that is special. He stepped on the field as a redshirt frosh and was instantly the best WR in college football. Everyone could see it. Don't let the Texas Tech system issue fool you, it wasn't his numbers, it was the way he got those numbers. Crabtree attacks the ball like a defensive back and plays with the my ball mentality that all the great WRs have. His ball skills/hands are off the charts good - his adjustments to the ball are preternatural and he just plays "in the zone". He runs angry after the catch like a running back, and he's also elusive - think Brandon Marshall/Anquan Boldin. Boldin is a good compare in that he also lacks exceptional athleticism or speed, he just plays with terrific desire and execution.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

He's not very sudden or speedy or athletic. He's not going to make game changing plays. In other words, he's a technician who can create some separation with precise routes, and win the battle of adjusting to the ball in flight, but he won't win many footraces or make guys miss after the catch, or make catches that few NFL WRs could make. It's not death for his fantasy upside, I don't think Housh is much different, and he had a terrific 06/07. Like Housh, Robiskie probably won't have a high YPC, but he could end up being a PPR stud if things come together. I will say that if Edwards leaves Cleveland in free agency or via trade, Robiskie will struggle to get open. Housh had to have that deep receiver distracting the safeties to create the space to work the middle and constantly face single coverage. If Brady Quinn doesn't develop, Robiskie could also have some problems. He seems like he would do best in a timing based offense with an accurate passer. Anderson is certainly not that guy, he's more of a "throw it up there and let the athlete make an athletic play" type of QB. Quinn ran the Weis offense well, but has trouble on downfield accuracy, which could actually help Robiskie, because he doesn't have the speed to be used frequently as a deep threat.As far as comparing him to Britt or Nicks:Britt has the deep speed to threaten the safeties and he's strong like bull which gives him a better big play profile.Nicks has ridiculous hands and body control, and he's surprisingly elusive and strong running after the catch, he could be more of a "take over the game" kind of wideout.

This is good stuff, thx. The lack of suddenness or explosion seems to be the common theme. That's one of the things that confuses me though. By all accounts, he gets good separation, looked good (quick) in drills, and his "suddenness" measurables are actually BETTER that the "sudden" guys. 3-cone drill is about the best "suddenness" drill I can think of, and his time was bordering on ridiculous for his size. Granted, a drill is a drill, and since everybody seems pretty consistent in their evaluation of him, one definite possibility is that his drill suddenness doesn't translate to on-field production.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

He's not very sudden or speedy or athletic. He's not going to make game changing plays. In other words, he's a technician who can create some separation with precise routes, and win the battle of adjusting to the ball in flight, but he won't win many footraces or make guys miss after the catch, or make catches that few NFL WRs could make. It's not death for his fantasy upside, I don't think Housh is much different, and he had a terrific 06/07. Like Housh, Robiskie probably won't have a high YPC, but he could end up being a PPR stud if things come together. I will say that if Edwards leaves Cleveland in free agency or via trade, Robiskie will struggle to get open. Housh had to have that deep receiver distracting the safeties to create the space to work the middle and constantly face single coverage. If Brady Quinn doesn't develop, Robiskie could also have some problems. He seems like he would do best in a timing based offense with an accurate passer. Anderson is certainly not that guy, he's more of a "throw it up there and let the athlete make an athletic play" type of QB. Quinn ran the Weis offense well, but has trouble on downfield accuracy, which could actually help Robiskie, because he doesn't have the speed to be used frequently as a deep threat.As far as comparing him to Britt or Nicks:Britt has the deep speed to threaten the safeties and he's strong like bull which gives him a better big play profile.Nicks has ridiculous hands and body control, and he's surprisingly elusive and strong running after the catch, he could be more of a "take over the game" kind of wideout.

This is good stuff, thx. The lack of suddenness or explosion seems to be the common theme. That's one of the things that confuses me though. By all accounts, he gets good separation, looked good (quick) in drills, and his "suddenness" measurables are actually BETTER that the "sudden" guys. 3-cone drill is about the best "suddenness" drill I can think of, and his time was bordering on ridiculous for his size. Granted, a drill is a drill, and since everybody seems pretty consistent in their evaluation of him, one definite possibility is that his drill suddenness doesn't translate to on-field production.

Schneikes-I like him a lot. I think the question about upside is:"IS he good enough to beat two guys if he is double teamed?" The very best guys, are. You simply can't take them out of them game, even with game planning. Many good guys, but with limited upside- like Deion Branch, really aren't. The question is- is Robiskie more like a Roddy White/Reggie Wayne or more like a very competent second fiddle who could produce well in a passing offense. I think he is underrated and will be good.

 

[Matt Waldman]

Might want to check out the RSP - I list his speed and quickness as vastly underrated by most.

I think he's better than Michael Jenkins. I'd say his upside is closer to Keenan McCardell than Jabbar Gaffney, but the key is the quarterback play. The interesting thing about Robiskie is he was the anchorman on OSU's 4x100m relay team, you're not a slow guy if you're running the anchor leg. Hard to get great separation when you don't have a QB who can throw the deep ball on-time consistently, either. I did see him show that extra burst at the end of deep routes to make catches and there were passes I saw him have to slow down against Texas and Northwestern.

If Robiskie does a better job of defeating the jam with his hands and not just his footwork, then I think we'll see his speed come more into play on deep routes. There were times he would get cleanly off the LOS against press coverage, but he had to take the initial step backwards with the front leg before taking short steps with a plant to the outside and then drive to the inside. While he would avoid the initial bump, he will be better served in the pros to initiate contact, rip the guy to to the side to drive him off balance and use the speed he has to get separation. The difference between the two techniques should get him an extra step or two of separation rather than the half a step I often saw him get when the attempt to get separation from the line without being touched.

Obviously Robiskie is no Randy Moss who could use this technique in his prime and have three or four steps on an NFL corner, but he's fast enough that with a good quarterback he can get open. He is a technician like Bloom said, but he's still mastering his craft.

I wouldn't avoid him like poison, but I wouldn't expect him to be the most productive rookie receiver in '09. I think he'll be a decent fantasy starter in a few years.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

Hard to get great separation when you don't have a QB who can throw the deep ball on-time consistently, either.

That's the thing, I believe, that has caused people to assume he doesn't get great separation on his deep routes. They see him always fighting the defender for the ball and assume he can't separate when in reality, he has just come back 5 yards for the ball. Pryor consistently released the ball late last year causing his balls to be under thrown. Only at the end of the year did he begin to time the throw better.I think Robiskie also would look a lot better to people at 6'3" 220 lbs versus the 209 he weighs now. If he can add some weight, I think the strength concerns would go away. It will be interesting to see what he's listed at once the season begins.

 

[prymetyme25]

He's looked at like every other coaches son in any sport.... finished product. But the truth is that nobody knows how good he really is because he's never had a QB. I see people naming these mediocre wrs well I say he's Marquis Colston if Colston had gone to OSU instead of Hofstra. I think Robiskie will be Very good year 1 and tinker on the boarderline of elite by year 3.

ETA: If you hear that a guy has great hands and is a precise route runner just think to yourself...... Volume catcher. in the mold of Boldin, Colston and guys like that. He WILL be a PPR beast.

 

[EBF]

This comes closest to actually giving an answer to the question, but I'm still confused. What "special physical qualities" does he lack that you are looking for?He's 6.3" and ran a 6.72 3-cone drill. That seems pretty special to me. He had a better vert than Nicks or Britt. His speed, at least on paper is about the same as those guys.Do Nicks or Britt have overpowering strength or blazing speed?Let's take the discussion to a level that will end with me mercilessly mocked and abused. What does CRABTREE have that Robiskie doesn't, except the incredible college stats? Is it possible that Robiskie could have generated those stats had the two players swapped schools (or more specifically offensive schemes)?What are Crabtree's special physical qualities?

From one of my recent posts:

I'm starting to break WRs into three style categories based on successful archetypesower - Possession WRs who succeed because of size and strengthHines Ward, Terrell Owens, Anquan Boldin, Michael Crabtree, Dwayne Bowe, Jerricho Cotchery, Hakeem Nicks, Marques ColstonSpeed - Jitterburg WRs who succeed because of speed and quicknessSantana Moss, Eddie Royal, Steve Smith, Percy Harvin, DeSean JacksonFinesse - Thin WRs who succeed because of route precisionTorry Holt, Chad Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Isaac Bruce, Brandon Tate, Donald Driver, Derrick MasonObviously there's some overlap. Some speed WRs also have finesse qualities. Lee Evans and Laveranues Coles could probably fit into either category. And some of the speed WRs have power qualities. Santana Moss and Steve Smith are very strong for their height. But in general, I tend to be skeptical of a prospect who doesn't fit into at least one of these molds. Look at Dwayne Jarrett. He's not a power WR because he's not strong and he's not a finesse WR because he's not fast. So what is he? A bust. Peter Warrick had a power WR's speed trapped in a finesse body. Bust.If you're slow, you'd better be strong. And if you're small, you'd better be fast. That's the rule of thumb that I use with WRs.

Comparing Robiskie to Britt/Nicks/Crabtree is a mistake. Just because they're slow and tall doesn't mean they have the same physical gifts. Let's look at their size:Robiskie - 6'3" 209 BMI: 26.1Britt - 6'3" 218 BMI: 27.2Crabtree - 6'1" 215 BMI: 28.4Nicks - 6'1" 212 BMI: 28.0Robiskie is TALL, but he's not actually BIG. In that regard he's similar to guys like Limas Sweed and Randy Moss. These players have an advantage on jump balls because of their height and length, but they're not going to overpower cornerbacks and run through a lot of tackles. They're actually finesse/speed type WRs. In terms of body type and playing style, Robiskie is a lot closer to Torry Holt than he is to Michael Crabtree. That's why the lack of speed and burst is a problem for him. If he's not able to separate, he won't be successful. Crabtree and Nicks are in a very different category from Robiskie. They're classic examples of the power WR. What special physical quality do they have that Robiskie lacks? Strength. They have a dangerous combination of quickness and strength that makes them a handful for every CB in the league. Guys like Dwayne Bowe, Anquan Boldin, and Jerricho Cotchery have proven that this type of WR can be successful with average to below average straight line speed. Anyone who has watched Crabtree and Robiskie play should've noticed a qualitative difference in their body type and playing style. It's silly to compare them. It would be like comparing Limas Sweed to Anquan Boldin. Two totally different creatures who offer two totally different skill sets.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

This comes closest to actually giving an answer to the question, but I'm still confused. What "special physical qualities" does he lack that you are looking for?He's 6.3" and ran a 6.72 3-cone drill. That seems pretty special to me. He had a better vert than Nicks or Britt. His speed, at least on paper is about the same as those guys.Do Nicks or Britt have overpowering strength or blazing speed?Let's take the discussion to a level that will end with me mercilessly mocked and abused. What does CRABTREE have that Robiskie doesn't, except the incredible college stats? Is it possible that Robiskie could have generated those stats had the two players swapped schools (or more specifically offensive schemes)?What are Crabtree's special physical qualities?

From one of my recent posts:

I'm starting to break WRs into three style categories based on successful archetypesower - Possession WRs who succeed because of size and strengthHines Ward, Terrell Owens, Anquan Boldin, Michael Crabtree, Dwayne Bowe, Jerricho Cotchery, Hakeem Nicks, Marques ColstonSpeed - Jitterburg WRs who succeed because of speed and quicknessSantana Moss, Eddie Royal, Steve Smith, Percy Harvin, DeSean JacksonFinesse - Thin WRs who succeed because of route precisionTorry Holt, Chad Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Isaac Bruce, Brandon Tate, Donald Driver, Derrick MasonObviously there's some overlap. Some speed WRs also have finesse qualities. Lee Evans and Laveranues Coles could probably fit into either category. And some of the speed WRs have power qualities. Santana Moss and Steve Smith are very strong for their height. But in general, I tend to be skeptical of a prospect who doesn't fit into at least one of these molds. Look at Dwayne Jarrett. He's not a power WR because he's not strong and he's not a finesse WR because he's not fast. So what is he? A bust. Peter Warrick had a power WR's speed trapped in a finesse body. Bust.If you're slow, you'd better be strong. And if you're small, you'd better be fast. That's the rule of thumb that I use with WRs.

Comparing Robiskie to Britt/Nicks/Crabtree is a mistake. Just because they're slow and tall doesn't mean they have the same physical gifts. Let's look at their size:Robiskie - 6'3" 209 BMI: 26.1Britt - 6'3" 218 BMI: 27.2Crabtree - 6'1" 215 BMI: 28.4Nicks - 6'1" 212 BMI: 28.0Robiskie is TALL, but he's not actually BIG. In that regard he's similar to guys like Limas Sweed and Randy Moss. These players have an advantage on jump balls because of their height and length, but they're not going to overpower cornerbacks and run through a lot of tackles. They're actually finesse/speed type WRs. In terms of body type and playing style, Robiskie is a lot closer to Torry Holt than he is to Michael Crabtree. That's why the lack of speed and burst is a problem for him. If he's not able to separate, he won't be successful. Crabtree and Nicks are in a very different category from Robiskie. They're classic examples of the power WR. What special physical quality do they have that Robiskie lacks? Strength. They have a dangerous combination of quickness and strength that makes them a handful for every CB in the league. Guys like Dwayne Bowe, Anquan Boldin, and Jerricho Cotchery have proven that this type of WR can be successful with average to below average straight line speed. Anyone who has watched Crabtree and Robiskie play should've noticed a qualitative difference in their body type and playing style. It's silly to compare them. It would be like comparing Limas Sweed to Anquan Boldin. Two totally different creatures who offer two totally different skill sets.

I think we will see that comparing Holt and Robiskie, strengthwise is a fallacy.I believe Robiskie will show much more strength on the field than Holt.... much more.I would like to see him add 10-15 lbs to his frame.

 

[Captain Hook]

Why is Robiskie's upside limited? What am I missing? So what is it that is limiting Robiskie?

DUH - he was drafted by Cleveland!Bloom and Waldman give good info him, but really - where is he going to play?Don't you think everybody would be higher on him if he was going to play in Indianapolis...or New England?He is a CLEVELAND receiver......with ???? at QB

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Why is Robiskie's upside limited? What am I missing? So what is it that is limiting Robiskie?

DUH - he was drafted by Cleveland!Bloom and Waldman give good info him, but really - where is he going to play?Don't you think everybody would be higher on him if he was going to play in Indianapolis...or New England?He is a CLEVELAND receiver......with ???? at QB

There was some nice potential for Braylon last season.If he hadn't led the NFL in dropped passes (16), he would have had some decent stats.I think Robiskie will flourish in Cleveland.

 

[Mark Wimer]

Why is Robiskie's upside limited? What am I missing? So what is it that is limiting Robiskie?

DUH - he was drafted by Cleveland!Bloom and Waldman give good info him, but really - where is he going to play?Don't you think everybody would be higher on him if he was going to play in Indianapolis...or New England?He is a CLEVELAND receiver......with ???? at QB

I agree with Cpt. Hook that the problem is not Robiskie per se, but the situation he landed in. The Browns could be playing musical chairs at QB all season which isn't good for rhythm and QB/WR synergy. Also, with Kellen Winslow gone and Donte Stallworth highly unlikely to play in the NFL again, there is only Braylon "hands of stone" Edwards to draw coverage away from Robiskie (assuming Robiskie is a starter week 1 regular season). I think both guys will be covered pretty heavily as it'll only take 6-7 in the box to stuff Jamal Lewis consistently, given the lack of credible passing threat from the unproven (Quinn) or regressed (Anderson) QBs that the team has to choose from.Now, if Quinn throws really well in preseason due to his surgically repaired finger or if Anderson finds his groove again, then I'll be more optimistic about Robiskie. He has the NFL pedigree to be successful from day 1, if the offensive team around him isn't a shambles...

 

[EBF]

I think we will see that comparing Holt and Robiskie, strengthwise is a fallacy.I believe Robiskie will show much more strength on the field than Holt.... much more.I would like to see him add 10-15 lbs to his frame.

I know people are wary of BMI info after last year's debacle, but I think it's useful. Let's look at how Robiskie's BMI stacks up with some current NFL WRseSean Jackson - 25.1Marvin Harrison - 25.1Chad Johnson - 25.3Randy Moss - 25.6Torry Holt - 25.8Brian Robiskie - 26.1Eddie Royal - 26.1Donald Driver - 26.3Reggie Wayne - 26.9Derrick Mason - 27.5Larry Fitzgerald - 27.5Hines Ward - 27.8Hakeem Nicks - 28.0Brandon Marshall - 28.0Roddy White - 28.2Dwayne Bowe - 28.4Michael Crabtree - 28.4Anquan Boldin - 28.6This isn't a comprehensive list and it might not be totally accurate since the measurements were taken from NFL.com, but I think it provides a good general spectrum of body types. You can see that Robiskie is sandwiched between Torry Holt and Donald Driver with the exact same BMI as Eddie Royal. He's tall, but he's not a big guy by any means. Does he have the explosiveness and burst to compensate for his lack of power? I'm not so sure. I didn't see it last year. Maybe he'll be faster this season now that he'll be two years removed from his knee injury. The above list also shows you why all the talk about Michael Crabtree's "disappointing" height was bunk. By NFL WR standards, he's absolutely huge.

 

[FantasyTrader]

THis thread is

 

[Football Jones]

No other prospect grew on me more during the draft process this year than Mohamed Massaquoi. Robiskie could be a fine NFL #2, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if Massaquoi ends up being Cleveland's eventual #1 (after Edwards leaves). I can see Robiskie having a better rookie season, but my FF money is on Massaquoi (longterm).

OK, why? What is Massaquoi better at?

In short, just about everything it takes to be a #1 WR at the NFL level. Robiskie will likely always run better routes & have better hands. However, there's so much more to being a top WR (like everything you can imagine going on between the time the ball is snapped until the play is whistled dead). Robiskie is more NFL-ready, but he doesn't have the raw athletic ability of a typical #1. Obviously, we won't know until they get on the field, but if one of them is going to be a #1, it's Massaquoi, IMO.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

I think we will see that comparing Holt and Robiskie, strengthwise is a fallacy.I believe Robiskie will show much more strength on the field than Holt.... much more.I would like to see him add 10-15 lbs to his frame.

I know people are wary of BMI info after last year's debacle, but I think it's useful. Let's look at how Robiskie's BMI stacks up with some current NFL WRseSean Jackson - 25.1Marvin Harrison - 25.1Chad Johnson - 25.3Randy Moss - 25.6Torry Holt - 25.8Brian Robiskie - 26.1Eddie Royal - 26.1Donald Driver - 26.3Reggie Wayne - 26.9Derrick Mason - 27.5Larry Fitzgerald - 27.5Hines Ward - 27.8Hakeem Nicks - 28.0Brandon Marshall - 28.0Roddy White - 28.2Dwayne Bowe - 28.4Michael Crabtree - 28.4Anquan Boldin - 28.6This isn't a comprehensive list and it might not be totally accurate since the measurements were taken from NFL.com, but I think it provides a good general spectrum of body types. You can see that Robiskie is sandwiched between Torry Holt and Donald Driver with the exact same BMI as Eddie Royal. He's tall, but he's not a big guy by any means. Does he have the explosiveness and burst to compensate for his lack of power? I'm not so sure. I didn't see it last year. Maybe he'll be faster this season now that he'll be two years removed from his knee injury. The above list also shows you why all the talk about Michael Crabtree's "disappointing" height was bunk. By NFL WR standards, he's absolutely huge.

You make some legit points (as do some others), but the BMI stuff is sketchy for RBs and even less relevant to WRs, whose primary job is not to run THROUGH people (though that is a nice trick to have in the bag).And to say 6'1/215 is "absolutely huge" and then to downplay Robiskie's 6'3"/209 in the next breath is downright ridiculous, for a lot of reasons.There is some very good discussion in this thread though.

 

[Dave Larkin]

I am of the opinion that Robiskie is a sneaky good pickup in dynasty drafts. I'm definitely keeping a close eye on him. I don't see why he can't be an instant contributor for the Brownies.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

I think we will see that comparing Holt and Robiskie, strengthwise is a fallacy.I believe Robiskie will show much more strength on the field than Holt.... much more.I would like to see him add 10-15 lbs to his frame.

I know people are wary of BMI info after last year's debacle, but I think it's useful. Let's look at how Robiskie's BMI stacks up with some current NFL WRseSean Jackson - 25.1Marvin Harrison - 25.1Chad Johnson - 25.3Randy Moss - 25.6Torry Holt - 25.8Brian Robiskie - 26.1Eddie Royal - 26.1Donald Driver - 26.3Reggie Wayne - 26.9Derrick Mason - 27.5Larry Fitzgerald - 27.5Hines Ward - 27.8Hakeem Nicks - 28.0Brandon Marshall - 28.0Roddy White - 28.2Dwayne Bowe - 28.4Michael Crabtree - 28.4Anquan Boldin - 28.6This isn't a comprehensive list and it might not be totally accurate since the measurements were taken from NFL.com, but I think it provides a good general spectrum of body types. You can see that Robiskie is sandwiched between Torry Holt and Donald Driver with the exact same BMI as Eddie Royal. He's tall, but he's not a big guy by any means. Does he have the explosiveness and burst to compensate for his lack of power? I'm not so sure. I didn't see it last year. Maybe he'll be faster this season now that he'll be two years removed from his knee injury. The above list also shows you why all the talk about Michael Crabtree's "disappointing" height was bunk. By NFL WR standards, he's absolutely huge.

You make some legit points (as do some others), but the BMI stuff is sketchy for RBs and even less relevant to WRs, whose primary job is not to run THROUGH people (though that is a nice trick to have in the bag).And to say 6'1/215 is "absolutely huge" and then to downplay Robiskie's 6'3"/209 in the next breath is downright ridiculous, for a lot of reasons.There is some very good discussion in this thread though.

Concur.Another fallacy from EBF is to sequentially list BMI numbers and assume this list is the same ranking for upper body strength fighting the jamor fighting defenders for the ball.EBF is a knowledgeable cat, with all due respect.... This does not hold any weight for WRs.

 

[EBF]

I think we will see that comparing Holt and Robiskie, strengthwise is a fallacy.I believe Robiskie will show much more strength on the field than Holt.... much more.I would like to see him add 10-15 lbs to his frame.

I know people are wary of BMI info after last year's debacle, but I think it's useful. Let's look at how Robiskie's BMI stacks up with some current NFL WRseSean Jackson - 25.1Marvin Harrison - 25.1Chad Johnson - 25.3Randy Moss - 25.6Torry Holt - 25.8Brian Robiskie - 26.1Eddie Royal - 26.1Donald Driver - 26.3Reggie Wayne - 26.9Derrick Mason - 27.5Larry Fitzgerald - 27.5Hines Ward - 27.8Hakeem Nicks - 28.0Brandon Marshall - 28.0Roddy White - 28.2Dwayne Bowe - 28.4Michael Crabtree - 28.4Anquan Boldin - 28.6This isn't a comprehensive list and it might not be totally accurate since the measurements were taken from NFL.com, but I think it provides a good general spectrum of body types. You can see that Robiskie is sandwiched between Torry Holt and Donald Driver with the exact same BMI as Eddie Royal. He's tall, but he's not a big guy by any means. Does he have the explosiveness and burst to compensate for his lack of power? I'm not so sure. I didn't see it last year. Maybe he'll be faster this season now that he'll be two years removed from his knee injury. The above list also shows you why all the talk about Michael Crabtree's "disappointing" height was bunk. By NFL WR standards, he's absolutely huge.

You make some legit points (as do some others), but the BMI stuff is sketchy for RBs and even less relevant to WRs, whose primary job is not to run THROUGH people (though that is a nice trick to have in the bag).And to say 6'1/215 is "absolutely huge" and then to downplay Robiskie's 6'3"/209 in the next breath is downright ridiculous, for a lot of reasons.There is some very good discussion in this thread though.

I think DBs who have tried to cover Terrell Owens, Anquan Boldin, and Brandon Marshall would disagree with you about the importance of strength for WRs. Being big and strong affords a WR tremendous advantages. If you don't think BMI is relevant for WRs then do you think it's pure coincidence that all of the strong YAC/power type WRs like Boldin, Cotchery, and Bowe all have very high BMIs compared to the general population of WRs?You brush off the size difference between Crabtree and Robiskie like it's insignificant, but the list I posted shows a pretty clear qualitative difference in playing style between high BMI WRs like Crabtree and low BMI WRs like Robiskie. I think that's certainly reflected in these two prospects. Most people who have seen these guys play will agree that Crab is a power type and that Robiskie is a technician. A power WR with mediocre speed is far less troubling than a finesse WR with mediocre speed/burst. It all goes back to my golden rule of WR prospects...If you're small, you'd better be fast. If you're slow, you'd better be big.Robiskie is neither big nor fast. The problem is that some people look at his height and assume he's a "big" WR even though he's actually a slender finesse type.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

I think we will see that comparing Holt and Robiskie, strengthwise is a fallacy.I believe Robiskie will show much more strength on the field than Holt.... much more.I would like to see him add 10-15 lbs to his frame.

I know people are wary of BMI info after last year's debacle, but I think it's useful. Let's look at how Robiskie's BMI stacks up with some current NFL WRseSean Jackson - 25.1Marvin Harrison - 25.1Chad Johnson - 25.3Randy Moss - 25.6Torry Holt - 25.8Brian Robiskie - 26.1Eddie Royal - 26.1Donald Driver - 26.3Reggie Wayne - 26.9Derrick Mason - 27.5Larry Fitzgerald - 27.5Hines Ward - 27.8Hakeem Nicks - 28.0Brandon Marshall - 28.0Roddy White - 28.2Dwayne Bowe - 28.4Michael Crabtree - 28.4Anquan Boldin - 28.6This isn't a comprehensive list and it might not be totally accurate since the measurements were taken from NFL.com, but I think it provides a good general spectrum of body types. You can see that Robiskie is sandwiched between Torry Holt and Donald Driver with the exact same BMI as Eddie Royal. He's tall, but he's not a big guy by any means. Does he have the explosiveness and burst to compensate for his lack of power? I'm not so sure. I didn't see it last year. Maybe he'll be faster this season now that he'll be two years removed from his knee injury. The above list also shows you why all the talk about Michael Crabtree's "disappointing" height was bunk. By NFL WR standards, he's absolutely huge.

You make some legit points (as do some others), but the BMI stuff is sketchy for RBs and even less relevant to WRs, whose primary job is not to run THROUGH people (though that is a nice trick to have in the bag).And to say 6'1/215 is "absolutely huge" and then to downplay Robiskie's 6'3"/209 in the next breath is downright ridiculous, for a lot of reasons.There is some very good discussion in this thread though.

I think DBs who have tried to cover Terrell Owens, Anquan Boldin, and Brandon Marshall would disagree with you about the importance of strength for WRs. Being big and strong affords a WR tremendous advantages. If you don't think BMI is relevant for WRs then do you think it's pure coincidence that all of the strong YAC/power type WRs like Boldin, Cotchery, and Bowe all have very high BMIs compared to the general population of WRs?You brush off the size difference between Crabtree and Robiskie like it's insignificant, but the list I posted shows a pretty clear qualitative difference in playing style between high BMI WRs like Crabtree and low BMI WRs like Robiskie. I think that's certainly reflected in these two prospects. Most people who have seen these guys play will agree that Crab is a power type and that Robiskie is a technician. A power WR with mediocre speed is far less troubling than a finesse WR with mediocre speed/burst. It all goes back to my golden rule of WR prospects...If you're small, you'd better be fast. If you're slow, you'd better be big.Robiskie is neither big nor fast. The problem is that some people look at his height and assume he's a "big" WR even though he's actually a slender finesse type.

Robiskie has a keen sense of how to find the open spaces on the field.He also has great hands. I rank these traits above BMI and size.Again, if he puts on 10-15 lbs, I will be very pleased.FF championships are won with CONSISTENT production.I see Robiskie as one of those rookie WRs who can provide this to FF owners.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

I think we will see that comparing Holt and Robiskie, strengthwise is a fallacy.I believe Robiskie will show much more strength on the field than Holt.... much more.I would like to see him add 10-15 lbs to his frame.

I know people are wary of BMI info after last year's debacle, but I think it's useful. Let's look at how Robiskie's BMI stacks up with some current NFL WRseSean Jackson - 25.1Marvin Harrison - 25.1Chad Johnson - 25.3Randy Moss - 25.6Torry Holt - 25.8Brian Robiskie - 26.1Eddie Royal - 26.1Donald Driver - 26.3Reggie Wayne - 26.9Derrick Mason - 27.5Larry Fitzgerald - 27.5Hines Ward - 27.8Hakeem Nicks - 28.0Brandon Marshall - 28.0Roddy White - 28.2Dwayne Bowe - 28.4Michael Crabtree - 28.4Anquan Boldin - 28.6This isn't a comprehensive list and it might not be totally accurate since the measurements were taken from NFL.com, but I think it provides a good general spectrum of body types. You can see that Robiskie is sandwiched between Torry Holt and Donald Driver with the exact same BMI as Eddie Royal. He's tall, but he's not a big guy by any means. Does he have the explosiveness and burst to compensate for his lack of power? I'm not so sure. I didn't see it last year. Maybe he'll be faster this season now that he'll be two years removed from his knee injury. The above list also shows you why all the talk about Michael Crabtree's "disappointing" height was bunk. By NFL WR standards, he's absolutely huge.

You make some legit points (as do some others), but the BMI stuff is sketchy for RBs and even less relevant to WRs, whose primary job is not to run THROUGH people (though that is a nice trick to have in the bag).And to say 6'1/215 is "absolutely huge" and then to downplay Robiskie's 6'3"/209 in the next breath is downright ridiculous, for a lot of reasons.There is some very good discussion in this thread though.

I think DBs who have tried to cover Terrell Owens, Anquan Boldin, and Brandon Marshall would disagree with you about the importance of strength for WRs. Being big and strong affords a WR tremendous advantages. If you don't think BMI is relevant for WRs then do you think it's pure coincidence that all of the strong YAC/power type WRs like Boldin, Cotchery, and Bowe all have very high BMIs compared to the general population of WRs?You brush off the size difference between Crabtree and Robiskie like it's insignificant, but the list I posted shows a pretty clear qualitative difference in playing style between high BMI WRs like Crabtree and low BMI WRs like Robiskie. I think that's certainly reflected in these two prospects. Most people who have seen these guys play will agree that Crab is a power type and that Robiskie is a technician. A power WR with mediocre speed is far less troubling than a finesse WR with mediocre speed/burst. It all goes back to my golden rule of WR prospects...If you're small, you'd better be fast. If you're slow, you'd better be big.Robiskie is neither big nor fast. The problem is that some people look at his height and assume he's a "big" WR even though he's actually a slender finesse type.

Actually, he IS a "big" receiver who happens to have some finesse to his game. 209 pounds is NOT a small guy. He doesn't LOOK particularly thin, nor does it seem he plays that way. Is he Owens? No, he's not. But not many receivers are. I'd be more with you if he weighed in at 188 or something, but he didn't. It's actually kind of funny that you are trying to spin him being a couple of inches taller than most of his peers as a negative. Last I checked, being tall with long arms was NOT a bad thing for a guy who needs to be able jump up and catch balls over defenders.I do agree that overall strength COULD be a negative factor in many folks' view of Robiskie. But strength is actually one of the few things a receiver CAN work on and develop over time fairly easily. Robiskie has the frame to add weight and strength if it would help him.I also agree with your general principal that you need to be either or fast or have a little of both to be a premier receiver. I just disagree with your interpretation that BMI = size for receivers. Robiskie is fairly big (considerably bigger than the average NFL receiver I'd say) and he's not particularly slow. Oh, and he gets open, battles for balls, and catches them cleanly, a couple of other things that are fairly important for NFL receivers.

 

[EBF]

Actually, he IS a "big" receiver who happens to have some finesse to his game. 209 pounds is NOT a small guy. He doesn't LOOK particularly thin, nor does it seem he plays that way. Is he Owens? No, he's not. But not many receivers are. I'd be more with you if he weighed in at 188 or something, but he didn't. It's actually kind of funny that you are trying to spin him being a couple of inches taller than most of his peers as a negative. Last I checked, being tall with long arms was NOT a bad thing for a guy who needs to be able jump up and catch balls over defenders.

We'll agree to disagree about his size. IMO he's not a big receiver. He's a tall receiver. There's a difference.

I also agree with your general principal that you need to be either or fast or have a little of both to be a premier receiver. I just disagree with your interpretation that BMI = size for receivers. Robiskie is fairly big (considerably bigger than the average NFL receiver I'd say) and he's not particularly slow. Oh, and he gets open, battles for balls, and catches them cleanly, a couple of other things that are fairly important for NFL receivers.

Again, we disagree about what size entails for a WR. I think BMI is a better indicator than just looking at the height or weight. 209 pounds sounds big. 6'3 sounds big. But 209 pounds is not big for a 6'3" WR. Look around the NFL and you won't find many tall WRs that light. The few tall WRs who have low BMIs like Robiskie are much faster (Moss, etc). Without great size or speed, I think he faces an uphill battle if he's going to become a productive WR1. I think Bloom's take is pretty solid. The best you can hope for is a Houshmandzadeh type career where he ends up in a friendly WR2 spot where soft coverage allows him to be successful despite his lack of difference maker ability.

 

[Drop]

I think you hear the term "limited upside" because people don't see any attributes or skills that point to him being able to "dominate" games and/or situations.

He is seen as "nothing special" by some and "polished" by others and they are both right in a way. I think the only people saying he sucks think you need something to dominate with, but that's somewhat misguided in his case because it's not an exploitable weakness in the big scheme of things. He's not going to burn people and he's not really a beast once the ball is up for grabs. His track speed is worth noting obviously, but the subtle understanding of "suddenness" allows people to peg him properly in my opinion in terms of speed.

Getting into a discussion of upside/potential and how realistic it is for guys to come close to maximizing that in the NFL might help shed some light on Robo's relative value.

I think he'll be a solid player at best, never a defensive coordinator's nightmare. The only way he'll be able to become a big star is if he shows a knack for being clutch and just being in the right place at the right time in big games, which I wouldn't put past a hard working player who stays focused, loves the game, and has a support system in place to guide him in terms of coping with the rigors of the NFL and maximizing his talent. That being said, it's tough to measure the heart of players when they haven't yet been through the grind of the NFL.

 

[Biabreakable]

Great thread and question HS.

I have Robiske at the top of my 3rd tier which also includes Britt. But I think it is pretty easy to argue that he may belong in the same tier as Nicks, Harvin, Maclin and DHB. And maybe he does.

I am not sure what his actual upside could be honestly. I am going off of what the majority thinks about him. Which is that he is a polished WR and his success in College was do to solid technique moreso than physical dominance.

Now Ohio State fans will tell you he had no QB and the passing game was too limited for us to see an example of what he is capable of.

There are a lot of things that go into a rookie ranking. Some of these in regards to Robiske are small issues but I will mention them.

1. He was drafted 36th overall and was the 7th overall WR taken. After the rest of the WR.

2. That he and Massaqoui were the only WR drafted in the 2nd round and both of them were taken by Cleveland (other teams needed WR too) makes me question if these 2 WR were viewed as difference makers by other teams.

3. He was drafted by the Browns. Actualy the Browns are a better situation for WR than a lot of teams. They have a strong Oline and a potential francise QB. But this is still the Browns. What can I say? The Browns are a cursed orginization.

4. That Robiske is considered a finished product already means that coaching may not improve him significantly.

I had to look up his age. He will turn 22 years old in December. He is still young enough that he may still grow a bit physicaly. And at only 21 I think there is still plenty for him to learn and improve upon. He also reportedly has exceptional work ethic. So criticizing him for being so coachable and already having sound technique may not be the right way to look at it.

In light of this and other qualities that Robiske has my earlier thoughts of having Robiske a tier below these other WR might be flawed. I was previously more under the impression that he was an older rookie (like 24 or 25) and if that were the case, combined with popular opinion about him I can see why people may be under rating him as a prospect.

Although I see some excellent opportunity for Robiske it is still Cleveland. And the reason for my ranking of him has to do with this more than him as a player.

So maybe he should be in the same tier as those other 1st round WR. But instead I have him and Britt as a tier below. Obviously for very different reasons.

 

[Bob Magaw]

i like robiskie, think he is probably underrated, & agree with matt that he has deceptive speed...

though it may be buildup speed (gets faster the further he gets downfield)...

you have to like the opportunity if edwards is not long for CLE, as it appears...

the fact that he is a pro WR positional coach's son makes you think he should have an accelerated learning curve, at one of the positions that is traditionally/historically among the most difficult in the NFL for collegiate prospects to transition to......

what impressed me was his athleticism and hands on some long balls, which were kind of like a poor man's fitzgerald...

his speed has been questioned... he ran a 4.4 at pro day, but that is a notoriously fast track (chris wells bettered his combine 40 time by 1-2 tenths of a second?)... but if he is faster than some are crediting him for, that that opens up more possibilities for comp players he reminds us of...

i have to admit when i saw him i saw some torry holt in him, in terms of his smooth, polished, mature route running skills, & his economy of motion... he seems like a solid citizen, & not the kind of player you have to worry about getting in nightclub meelees...

my top rookie WRs, factoring in & accounting for destination, immediate & long term potential...

1 - crabtree (smaller TO with better hands, similar deceptive short area explosion (one of the biggest keys to TO mentor rice's success), & overall tools/skill set... almost certainly more refined & developed at a comparable stage of their careers... obviously massive upside... not calvin johnson in terms of his constellation of attributes/traits, but he is a pit bull that could put up comparable production... maybe less TDs but more receptions/yards over his career... his star prep QB background parallels boldin's)

2 - nicks (also reminds me of boldin in terms of toughness, tenacity & motor - thighs like oprah winfrey... as bloom said/alluded to - sick body control, hands, contact balance & RB-like RAC ability... he is going to be a handful for undersized nickle CBs in the open field, & they will have trouble dragging him down by themselves)

3 - maclin (nice talent/offensive system convergence)

4 - harvin

4 - DHB

both harvin & DHB have questions to answer... harvin related to injury & character off-field... DHB, sketchy hands, lack of great college production (i'll cut him some slack there, as he would probably have done better in an offense like florida, for example), bungling raider organizational stigma, & legit questions about russell's development & makeup...

6 - robiskie

7 - britt (big WR, moves well, maybe a little stiffer than the elite players at his position & prospects in his class)... i think coyle used braylon edwards as a comp player... i see some similarities... citing another player doesn't imply a one-to-one correspondence... NFL scouts & personnel types didn't assign as high a grade on him, needless to say)

BUT, robiskie could easily emerge as a top 3-5 WR from this class, depending on how guys like harvin & DHB develope...

 

[gpthatsme]

There is really a lot of great commentary in this old thread about BR. I have been looking at the CLE WR situation and am unsure who will take control. I think McCoy and the WCO will allow someone to produce some decent stats. I know Little has a lot of love, and deservedly so, but I am just wondering if any of the experts who posted in this thread two years ago might have an update on where they see Robiskie's progression as a pro today. He looked pretty good to finish out the season last year and he did come into the league at 20 years old, so he is still young. Thoughts?

Robiskie TD Late Last Season - He adjusted well and made this huge catch

 

[Drop]

Not much has changed about how I feel. I don't see anything from Robo that leads me to believe that he has much of an ability to really carry a team and given the current state of the Browns I don't think that there will be enough passing production for him to thrive as a consistent fantasy player. If he does emerge as a threat teams will quickly counter by rolling coverage to him and gameplanning more specifically for him. In my view I don't think he would do well at all if he reached the level where teams feared him as a playmaker. Throwing to a double teamed Robo isn't going to work like it would with Nicks because he just doesn't have sick physical attributes that warrant forcing the ball to him when there is inherently a weak link in the coverage somewhere else. So that's why I think that his upside is limited quite a bit.

I think that losing Eric Steinbach is going to hurt the Browns very much. The strength of their team was the left side of the offensive line and now there will be an adjustment period. I don't think that Colt McCoy is able to throw the ball very deep and it's a significant problem for the Browns that was masked in large part due to how physical of a running game they had last season. With Mangini gone and some turnover on the line I wonder if they have that same mindset. The Browns were able to beat really good teams last season because they just pushed them around and I think the commitment to that mindset may have changed. Colt McCoy tends to hang deep balls up in the air. He got a little better this preseason, but he still can't stretch the field enough in the NFL to be a QB for a contender. Taking away Watson on the drag type routes really exposes McCoy. Teams don't have to worry about the bomb so they are best advised to keep everything in front of them and the Browns don't have the talent to make enough plays against that type of defense. I feel that there will be some production from Browns WRs obviously, but starting any one of them individually will be like a box of chocolates... you never know what you're gonna get.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

This is from a GM Tom Heckert press conference:

(On how well defined the receiving core is)- "Whoever can score touchdowns, we'll get him the ball. I think it's going to be a combination. If you look throughout the West Coast systems, we had the same thing in Philadelphia, where we would like to have the ball distributed all over the place between the tight ends, the backs and the wide receivers. It's an offense that I've been around where we haven't had a guy, we had T.O. (Terrell Owens) an he was the one guy who had way more catches than anybody else. That was one year out of all the years I was in Philadelphia, it was spread around. They can all have 60 catches or however you want to talk about it, but it's not necessary to have one guy catch 100 balls. I don't think that's going to be the case here either."

 

[loose circuits]

i personally think he's the 4th best WR on the browns behind Little, Mass, and Cribbs