Why isn't Cris Carter in the HOF (1 Viewer)

[Dexter Manley]

Because he's a stats compiler.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

And I think Tagliabue, Dent, Randle, and Derrick Thomas should also be on the short list.I wonder how long Tagliabue will have to wait... I kind of thought he'd be first ballot, but he'd have to bump either Carter or McDaniel to make it here.

Not long enough! Tagliabue had 1/10th the positive impact on the NFL as Art Modell and is 10 times to blame for the Browns moving, but the bitterness over the Browns' move just punishes Modell.

 

[The_Man]

This years finalists (max 5 make it):

Bruce Smith

John Randall

Rod Woodson

Derrick Thomas

Shannon Sharpe

Cris Carter

Paul Tagliabue

Ralph Wilson

Art Modell

Randall McDaniel

Andre Reed

Ken Stabler

Ray Guy

Charles Haley

Dermontti Dawson

Richard Dent

Bob Kuchenberg

Roger Craig

Terrell Davis

Chris Doleman

Kevin Greene

Lester Hayes

Cortez Kennedy

Steve Tasker

Russ Grimm

So who are the five who get in? I think Bruce Smith and Rod Woodson are the only two locks.

ETA: And Ralph Wilson probably gets in on the "Henry Fonda - On Golden Pond" ticket.

InBruce Smith - all-time Sack Master, best D End of his time (post-Reggie White), 4 Super Bowls

Rod Woodson - CB on the 75th anniversary all-NFL team, most career INTs for TDs

Shannon Sharpe - most catches for a TE, prototype of the modern TE, 3 Super Bowl wins

Cris Carter - he belongs, just didn't get in on the first ballot

Careers Too Short

Terrell Davis

Derrick Thomas

Who cares - can't we get rid of the Old Fart wing of the Hall of Fame?

Paul Tagliabue

Ralph Wilson

Art Modell

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

This years finalists (max 5 make it):Bruce SmithJohn RandallRod WoodsonDerrick ThomasShannon SharpeCris CarterPaul TagliabueRalph WilsonArt ModellRandall McDaniel Andre ReedKen StablerRay GuyCharles HaleyDermontti DawsonRichard DentBob KuchenbergRoger CraigTerrell DavisChris DolemanKevin GreeneLester HayesCortez KennedySteve TaskerRuss GrimmSo who are the five who get in? I think Bruce Smith and Rod Woodson are the only two locks.ETA: And Ralph Wilson probably gets in on the "Henry Fonda - On Golden Pond" ticket.

Lots of quality on that list. Smith and Woodson are locks. Shannon Sharpe should be. Tagliabue will get in.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Pretty sure Irvin didnt get in first ballot. There is a limit to the number of players that are elected each year, think its 3-7 which I think is silly. If a guy is a HOFer, elect him when hes eligible.

These people who keep players out their first year of eligibility to teach them whatever lessons are dopes. If the guy is a HoFer, then he is a HoFer.

Chris Carter isn't in the Hall of Fame because he played most of his career in a flyover city.

Good point. Don't think him having his best years in Minnesota didn't have something to do with it. Trust me, had he played in New York or Pittsburgh, and put up the same numbers, he would have easily made it his first year.

 

[Twilight]

Pretty sure Irvin didnt get in first ballot. There is a limit to the number of players that are elected each year, think its 3-7 which I think is silly. If a guy is a HOFer, elect him when hes eligible.

These people who keep players out their first year of eligibility to teach them whatever lessons are dopes. If the guy is a HoFer, then he is a HoFer.

Chris Carter isn't in the Hall of Fame because he played most of his career in a flyover city.

Good point. Don't think him having his best years in Minnesota didn't have something to do with it. Trust me, had he played in New York or Pittsburgh, and put up the same numbers, he would have easily made it his first year.

Pittsburgh is suddenly a media hotbed? If Minnesota actually won those 4 Superbowls instead of Pitt, they would have the acclaim Pittsburgh does. And if Carter actually made a Super Bowl or two himself, he would have been in 1st ballot instead of waiting.

 

[Tau837]

Careers Too Short

Derrick Thomas

What are you talking about? He played 11 seasons.

 

[Sebowski]

Carter's stats are better than he was. Stats aren't everything.

 

[Barry]

Dermontti Dawson is the best player on the list.

 

[Twilight]

Dermontti Dawson is the best player on the list.

 

[Steady Mooobin]

Because he's a stats compiler.

So I take it you were against Monk getting in?

 

[Tom Servo]

And I think Tagliabue, Dent, Randle, and Derrick Thomas should also be on the short list.I wonder how long Tagliabue will have to wait... I kind of thought he'd be first ballot, but he'd have to bump either Carter or McDaniel to make it here.

Not long enough! Tagliabue had 1/10th the positive impact on the NFL as Art Modell and is 10 times to blame for the Browns moving, but the bitterness over the Browns' move just punishes Modell.

Modell should be excluded just for moving the Browns alone. And this is a fan saying that.

 

[Chaka]

And I think Tagliabue, Dent, Randle, and Derrick Thomas should also be on the short list.I wonder how long Tagliabue will have to wait... I kind of thought he'd be first ballot, but he'd have to bump either Carter or McDaniel to make it here.

Not long enough! Tagliabue had 1/10th the positive impact on the NFL as Art Modell and is 10 times to blame for the Browns moving, but the bitterness over the Browns' move just punishes Modell.

Neither of them is more deserving than Ralph Wilson.

 

[Chaka]

Woodson, Smith, Randle and Sharpe are all Hall of Famers in waiting. I can't imagine Smith, Woodson or Sharpe having to wait, whereas it might take a relatively lighter year in the next few for Randle to get the [deserved] nod.

If Randle doesn't get in this year something is wrong with the system.

Hardly. He was a great player and probably deserving of the HoF but the exclusion of a player of his caliber is hardly unprecedented.It's when they let in guys like Irvin and Swann that the system gets screwed up.

 

[Chaka]

Because he's a stats compiler.

No he wasn't. Vinny Testeverde is a stats compiler, Cris Carter was a dominant WR for the majority of his career.

 

[Geeqs]

The HOF voting process/commitee is an absolute joke...the next project for Goodell perhaps? Carter being left out is just one example of the voting constituents basing their votes on bogus criteria like Super Bowl rings and Quid pro Quo politics. Being a lifelong Vikings fan, Carter and Randall McDaniel (9 time All-Pro, 12 time Pro Bowler) are just the lastest additions to a list of Vikings that are forced to wait while voters put guys like Irvin and Fred Dean who greatest accomplishments come from playing on Super Bowl winning teams. Carter should get in this year but who knows what hidden agenda will creep up this year.

 

[Mr. Mojo]

The HOF voting process/commitee is an absolute joke...the next project for Goodell perhaps? Carter being left out is just one example of the voting constituents basing their votes on bogus criteria like Super Bowl rings and Quid pro Quo politics. Being a lifelong Vikings fan, Carter and Randall McDaniel (9 time All-Pro, 12 time Pro Bowler) are just the lastest additions to a list of Vikings that are forced to wait while voters put guys like Irvin and Fred Dean who greatest accomplishments come from playing on Super Bowl winning teams. Carter should get in this year but who knows what hidden agenda will creep up this year.

 

[Tau837]

Dermontti Dawson is the best player on the list.

Not even close.

 

[Chaka]

Dermontti Dawson is the best player on the list.

Not even close.

Probably not the best on the list but Dawson was a baaaaaaaad man.

 

[Sea Bass]

I naively thought Carter was a lock to get into the HOF on his first shot, but evidently, the voters are hesitant to let guys in on the 1st ballot, unless they are mega-star no-brainers (Elway, Montana). Statistically he's one of the 3 or 4 greatest WRs ever (kills Irvin's #'s,no comparison), which makes him a shoo-in to get in on his next try. Of course, there's always the "petty, self-important sports writer" factor, which lends some unpredictability to the equation.

I think there's a lot of room for debate about whether Carter is statistically one of the five greatest WRs ever.

Off the top of my head, I would rank Rice, Hutson, Moss, Harrison, Owens, and Largent ahead of him. (I know many may disagree with Largent.) Some might argue that Bruce and Tim Brown are/were better.

Never heard of Raymond Berry?

 

[Tau837]

I naively thought Carter was a lock to get into the HOF on his first shot, but evidently, the voters are hesitant to let guys in on the 1st ballot, unless they are mega-star no-brainers (Elway, Montana). Statistically he's one of the 3 or 4 greatest WRs ever (kills Irvin's #'s,no comparison), which makes him a shoo-in to get in on his next try. Of course, there's always the "petty, self-important sports writer" factor, which lends some unpredictability to the equation.

I think there's a lot of room for debate about whether Carter is statistically one of the five greatest WRs ever.

Off the top of my head, I would rank Rice, Hutson, Moss, Harrison, Owens, and Largent ahead of him. (I know many may disagree with Largent.) Some might argue that Bruce and Tim Brown are/were better.

Never heard of Raymond Berry?

Yes, I am familiar with Berry. I don't think he was better than Carter.

 

[Jeremy]

Michael Irvin set the precedent. WRs who've put up HOF numbers by pushing off on nearly every play have to wait a year to get in.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Looks like Carter didn't make it again this year.

 

[Tau837]

Looks like Carter didn't make it again this year.

Wow, and with Rice and Brown becoming eligible next year, he will now likely have to wait a while. And at the same time, Bob Hayes made it, which IMO lowers the bar for HOF WRs.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Looks like Carter didn't make it again this year.

Wow, and with Rice and Brown becoming eligible next year, he will now likely have to wait a while. And at the same time, Bob Hayes made it, which IMO lowers the bar for HOF WRs.

Hayes is probably a better WR than half of the current WRs, so I don't think he lowers the bar at all. He's another guy that wasn't a compiler but was dominant for most of the late '60s and early '70s. He was the class of the NFL along with Warfield and Charley Taylor when Alworth and Maynard were dominating the AFL. He's a good addition.

 

[Wadsworth]

Looks like Carter didn't make it again this year.

Wow, and with Rice and Brown becoming eligible next year, he will now likely have to wait a while. And at the same time, Bob Hayes made it, which IMO lowers the bar for HOF WRs.

Bob Hayes was both a better WR compared to his peers than Chris Carter compared to his peers and a better WR than Chris Carter.

 

[Giantseasonticketholder]

Looks like Carter didn't make it again this year.

Wow, and with Rice and Brown becoming eligible next year, he will now likely have to wait a while. And at the same time, Bob Hayes made it, which IMO lowers the bar for HOF WRs.

Hayes is probably a better WR than half of the current WRs, so I don't think he lowers the bar at all. He's another guy that wasn't a compiler but was dominant for most of the late '60s and early '70s. He was the class of the NFL along with Warfield and Charley Taylor when Alworth and Maynard were dominating the AFL. He's a good addition.

If it makes the Cris Carter fans feel any better, I think Michael Irvin should be waiting too.

 

[Tau837]

Looks like Carter didn't make it again this year.

Wow, and with Rice and Brown becoming eligible next year, he will now likely have to wait a while. And at the same time, Bob Hayes made it, which IMO lowers the bar for HOF WRs.

Hayes is probably a better WR than half of the current WRs, so I don't think he lowers the bar at all. He's another guy that wasn't a compiler but was dominant for most of the late '60s and early '70s. He was the class of the NFL along with Warfield and Charley Taylor when Alworth and Maynard were dominating the AFL. He's a good addition.

Chase, my perception is that you take largely a numbers-based view to this subject. The thing is, if I'm not mistaken, Bob Hayes was only a HOF finalist (non senior nominee) one time, and didn't make it then. Now he makes it as a senior nomineee. I have a hard time believing someone who did not play in a small market could make the finalist list only one time and be truly deserving.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Looks like Carter didn't make it again this year.

Wow, and with Rice and Brown becoming eligible next year, he will now likely have to wait a while. And at the same time, Bob Hayes made it, which IMO lowers the bar for HOF WRs.

Hayes is probably a better WR than half of the current WRs, so I don't think he lowers the bar at all. He's another guy that wasn't a compiler but was dominant for most of the late '60s and early '70s. He was the class of the NFL along with Warfield and Charley Taylor when Alworth and Maynard were dominating the AFL. He's a good addition.

Chase, my perception is that you take largely a numbers-based view to this subject. The thing is, if I'm not mistaken, Bob Hayes was only a HOF finalist (non senior nominee) one time, and didn't make it then. Now he makes it as a senior nomineee. I have a hard time believing someone who did not play in a small market could make the finalist list only one time and be truly deserving.

The HOF does lots of wacky stuff. I don't have a ton of faith in their selection process. But Hayes was a big part of some very good Dallas teams in the late '60s and the SB team.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Looks like Carter didn't make it again this year.

Wow, and with Rice and Brown becoming eligible next year, he will now likely have to wait a while. And at the same time, Bob Hayes made it, which IMO lowers the bar for HOF WRs.

Hayes is probably a better WR than half of the current WRs, so I don't think he lowers the bar at all. He's another guy that wasn't a compiler but was dominant for most of the late '60s and early '70s. He was the class of the NFL along with Warfield and Charley Taylor when Alworth and Maynard were dominating the AFL. He's a good addition.

Bob Hayes is a HOF receiver. I believe that Cris Carter is as well and am surprised that he was beaten out by Derrick Thomas.And seriously, do we need Owners in the HOF? Why is Ralph Wilson taking someones spot?I think Tim Brown was much more of a compiler than Cris Carter and Cris Carter making it next year will cause Brown to wait.

 

[Enforcer]

Why is Ralph Wilson taking someones spot?

Because he fully deserves it. The Maras, Wilsons, and Hunts of the world are responsible for creating the NFL as it exists today that we love so much.

 

[az_prof]

Looks like Carter didn't make it again this year.

Wow, and with Rice and Brown becoming eligible next year, he will now likely have to wait a while. And at the same time, Bob Hayes made it, which IMO lowers the bar for HOF WRs.

Bob Hayes was both a better WR compared to his peers than Chris Carter compared to his peers and a better WR than Chris Carter.

You have NO idea what you are talking about. Bob Hayes was a Speedster; nothing more.

 

[Wadsworth]

Looks like Carter didn't make it again this year.

Wow, and with Rice and Brown becoming eligible next year, he will now likely have to wait a while. And at the same time, Bob Hayes made it, which IMO lowers the bar for HOF WRs.

Bob Hayes was both a better WR compared to his peers than Chris Carter compared to his peers and a better WR than Chris Carter.

You have NO idea what you are talking about. Bob Hayes was a Speedster; nothing more.

Then why don't all track stars have NFL careers like Bob Hayes? Of course he was a speedster, but he must have been something more or the every speedster would be starting in the NFL.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Looks like Carter didn't make it again this year.

Wow, and with Rice and Brown becoming eligible next year, he will now likely have to wait a while. And at the same time, Bob Hayes made it, which IMO lowers the bar for HOF WRs.

Bob Hayes was both a better WR compared to his peers than Chris Carter compared to his peers and a better WR than Chris Carter.

You have NO idea what you are talking about. Bob Hayes was a Speedster; nothing more.

Then why don't all track stars have NFL careers like Bob Hayes? Of course he was a speedster, but he must have been something more or the every speedster would be starting in the NFL.

Indeed. He was also the first receiver to regularly draw double coverage.ETA: He probably didn't make the final round in the past because of his drug problems. Presumably the voters that were hung up on that have either let it drop, or been replaced by people who don't care.

 

[Enforcer]

Bob Hayes was a Speedster; nothing more.

72 TDs in his first 7 seasons. This was back when there were only 14 game seasons. Add to this that Hayes was playing in a different era than we see today. Receivers today get to play without constant contact down field because of rules changes. Further, receivers today are protected by rules from head hunting safeties like Jack Tatum and the like.Just a speedster? There have been plenty of faster guys in the NFL that did a lot less with more speed. Do you really believe this? When you have to resort to hyperbole like this to try and make a point you have no point.

 

[Oof!]

Bob Hayes was a Speedster; nothing more.

72 TDs in his first 7 seasons. This was back when there were only 14 game seasons. Add to this that Hayes was playing in a different era than we see today. Receivers today get to play without constant contact down field because of rules changes. Further, receivers today are protected by rules from head hunting safeties like Jack Tatum and the like.Just a speedster? There have been plenty of faster guys in the NFL that did a lot less with more speed. Do you really believe this? When you have to resort to hyperbole like this to try and make a point you have no point.

Whoever actually believes he was just a speedster is totally messed up and has no idea what he's talking about.