Why no love for Flacco? (1 Viewer)

[Go deep]

Its also speculation that the Ravens threw less because Rice emerged as you stated. Most everything discussed on these boards is speculation. If it was all just facts, we wouldnt need a board to discuss it.

Also, you say that "his stats declined because they threw the ball less, but you never saw anything that suggested he was limited by injury, and that he looked fine against the Lions". Do you have a reputable source to confirm that? Is that a fact, or is it just speculation?

What did I claim to be a fact that needs a reputable source to confirm?

That the Ravens ran more because of the emergance of Rice. That is 100% specualtion.What did i claim as a fact that needs a reputable source?

The numbers show that Ray Rice averaged 18 carries per game in the last 10 games and 12 in the first 6 games. His increase is directly related to the decrease in Flacco's attempted passes. That is black and white and proven by the numbers. How is that speculation?As far as the bolded, any suggestion of Flacco being hurt that is not backed up with some kind of fact (injury report, news article, etc.) is speculation. That has been my only point about providing a source because I have seen numerous comments (not just you) that suggest Flacco was hurt a lot earlier than anything that has been reported.

I simply suggested that it was possible that the reason the Ravens ran more starting in week 8 was because Flacco was hurt. I didnt state is as fact. You however stated as fact that the reason for the Ravens throwing less was because of Rice's emergence. Rice's emergence could have been because Flacco was hurt, forcing the Ravens to run more. You dont know either way, which means you are indeed speculating when you say the Ravens threw less because Rice emerged.

 

[(unwelcomed)GUEST]

there are many who don't know anything about the Ravens or Flacco, I've seen the large majority (12) of his home games in person and all of the other games on television. There's a huge difference in analysis, btw ( I mean in what u see in person and on television, u can't see the whole field on tv).That said, Flacco sustained a significant chest injury in the Vikings game. From that point he was injured further. Most of that was after Gaither was lost. He also sustained a signiicant hip/leg injury. He had a huge purple thigh length contusion for almost two months, that was sustained AFTER the big chest injury. All the injuries aside, and yes they were significant injuries, his downfield reads were slow/delayed, problematic from very early on. Many of his throws in the 25 to 45 yrd range were very, very late. Should that be contributed to his poor recievers, maybe? He needs to quicken his reads and deliver the ball more efficiently. That said he still completed 64 percent of his passes. The problem lies in that many of those completions were give ups to Rice who turned them into big gains. In fantasy terms, I beiieve last year's numbers are the baseline and his potential extends to 4500 yds 30 tds and 10 interceptions. The addition of Boldin, Stalworth, REED (yeah the rookie from Utah), Pita, & Dickson are huge...seriously could u imagine what the reaction would be if Brady or Manning added those guys? That truely effective offensive rushing attack (McClain, Rice, McGahee, Ngata & Cody - kidding) may limit the Tds to the 27 range however. The D will be ridiculous this year, especially against the run. I say he's a mid to low level 1 that won't suffer lows against tough Ds but may suffer against weak run D's

Do you have any links about the chest injury? He was never listed on the injury report with a chest injury and I never even heard of him having one, so if you have a link, I'd like to see it. It just seems hard to believe that Flacco had a significant chest injury and was never on the injury report because of it. I'm sorry to sound so skeptical, but I have seen so much speculation in this thread about injuries that I have to see proof before I believe it.

IT WAS NOT REPORTED, again when i said many posting in this thread don't follow the Ravens I meant it. Have you ever heard Harbaugh when he's asked about injuries? On numerous occassions he's told reporters that the team won't comment on injuries, that they report "only what they have to, preferrably less". Go get a copy of the game and watch it (ravens at vikes), you can visible see the difference in Flacco in the third quarter. Watch him in warm ups after that game and prior to that game, you can see him grabbing his chest in warm ups. No link from a reporter, the Baltimore sports media is made up of yes-men they don't challenge and question. He was hurt in the Minnesota game then further injured about a month later. That later injury is well documented with several reporters commenting that Flacco had a huge purple bruise on his quad into his hip. He had trouble walking after games in the locker room. I don't give the Ravens' o-line nearly as much credit as most, Gaither went down in the NE game (the one before the Vikings game) and Joe got beaten up pretty good after that. Oneal Cousins is god-awful as a pass blocker.Bottom line with Flacco, he was injured in week 6 or 7. His reads have been slow, he needs to speed the decision making process up.

 

[LawFitz]

Simple: b/c this is a running team with a healthy OL and three wear you down RBs.

 

[Go deep]

Simple: b/c this is a running team with a healthy OL and three wear you down RBs.

So was Pittsburgh last year, that didnt stop Big Ben from putting up QB1 numbers.

 

[identikit]

Simple: b/c this is a running team with a healthy OL and three wear you down RBs.

So was Pittsburgh last year, that didnt stop Big Ben from putting up QB1 numbers.

Comparing the rushing offense of Pitt and Baltimore's doesn't work for me.

I know Pitt wants to run the ball, but for the most part they weren't very effective at all in 2009.

Baltimore was though.

 

[humpback]

Simple: b/c this is a running team with a healthy OL and three wear you down RBs.

So was Pittsburgh last year, that didnt stop Big Ben from putting up QB1 numbers.

Baltimore was 7th in rushing attempts and 25th in passing attempts last year. Pittsburgh was 18th in rushing and 19th in passing. Pittsburgh's O-line was neither as healthy nor as good as Baltimore's, and Mendy, FWP, and Moore don't "wear you down" nearly as much as Rice, McGahee, and McClain. Oh, and Ben had put up top 5 QB numbers before last season. Not a good comparison.

 

[Go deep]

Simple: b/c this is a running team with a healthy OL and three wear you down RBs.

So was Pittsburgh last year, that didnt stop Big Ben from putting up QB1 numbers.

Comparing the rushing offense of Pitt and Baltimore's doesn't work for me.

I know Pitt wants to run the ball, but for the most part they weren't very effective at all in 2009.

Baltimore was though.

Point being, Pittsburgh has been a run team first for several years, and have done it with alot of success. The same things that are being said about Flacco now where being said about Big Ben a few years ago, Since then Ben has had 2 top 10 seasons in three years. The Ravens may be a run first team again this year, but they didnt bring in all those receiving options this offseason to throw less. He finished 25 fantasy points away from being a #1 QB last year in his 2nd season where he wasnt healthy for the better part of the 2nd half. Now he is in his 3rd season, fully healthy, and with a bunch of new receiving weapons.

 

[Go deep]

Simple: b/c this is a running team with a healthy OL and three wear you down RBs.

So was Pittsburgh last year, that didnt stop Big Ben from putting up QB1 numbers.

Baltimore was 7th in rushing attempts and 25th in passing attempts last year. Pittsburgh was 18th in rushing and 19th in passing. Pittsburgh's O-line was neither as healthy nor as good as Baltimore's, and Mendy, FWP, and Moore don't "wear you down" nearly as much as Rice, McGahee, and McClain. Oh, and Ben had put up top 5 QB numbers before last season. Not a good comparison.

You comparing Ben now to Flacco now. Look at what was being said about Big Ben and Pittsburgh several years ago. All the same things that are being said about Flacco now. Are you suprised the Ravens tried to run more with a 2nd year QB who was hurt for a large chunk of the season, and no WR options to throw to outside od a 36 year old WR?

 

[humpback]

Simple: b/c this is a running team with a healthy OL and three wear you down RBs.

So was Pittsburgh last year, that didnt stop Big Ben from putting up QB1 numbers.

Baltimore was 7th in rushing attempts and 25th in passing attempts last year. Pittsburgh was 18th in rushing and 19th in passing. Pittsburgh's O-line was neither as healthy nor as good as Baltimore's, and Mendy, FWP, and Moore don't "wear you down" nearly as much as Rice, McGahee, and McClain. Oh, and Ben had put up top 5 QB numbers before last season. Not a good comparison.

You comparing Ben now to Flacco now. Look at what was being said about Big Ben and Pittsburgh several years ago. All the same things that are being said about Flacco now. Are you suprised the Ravens tried to run more with a 2nd year QB who was hurt for a large chunk of the season, and no WR options to throw to outside od a 36 year old WR?

Not surprised at all- you're the one who made the comparison, I just pointed out that it was a poor one. Baltimore was much more run oriented, had a better, healthier O-line, it's RBs are bigger, and Ben had been a top 5 QB prior to last season. Obviously things may change this year, but the situation in Pittsburgh last year was much more QB friendly than in Baltimore, that's all I'm saying.

 

[Go deep]

Simple: b/c this is a running team with a healthy OL and three wear you down RBs.

So was Pittsburgh last year, that didnt stop Big Ben from putting up QB1 numbers.

Baltimore was 7th in rushing attempts and 25th in passing attempts last year. Pittsburgh was 18th in rushing and 19th in passing. Pittsburgh's O-line was neither as healthy nor as good as Baltimore's, and Mendy, FWP, and Moore don't "wear you down" nearly as much as Rice, McGahee, and McClain. Oh, and Ben had put up top 5 QB numbers before last season. Not a good comparison.

You comparing Ben now to Flacco now. Look at what was being said about Big Ben and Pittsburgh several years ago. All the same things that are being said about Flacco now. Are you suprised the Ravens tried to run more with a 2nd year QB who was hurt for a large chunk of the season, and no WR options to throw to outside od a 36 year old WR?

Not surprised at all- you're the one who made the comparison, I just pointed out that it was a poor one. Baltimore was much more run oriented, had a better, healthier O-line, it's RBs are bigger, and Ben had been a top 5 QB prior to last season. Obviously things may change this year, but the situation in Pittsburgh last year was much more QB friendly than in Baltimore, that's all I'm saying.

Im saying in order to comare apples to apples you have to compare Flacco this year to Big Ben in his 2nd/3rd year. Alot of the things you are saying about Flacco now applied to Big Ben back then. Good-Oline, Run first team, Big backs(they dont get any bigger than the bus). Ben didnt have a top 5 QB season in his first two seasons, just like Flacco hasnt.

 

[identikit]

So was Pittsburgh last year, that didnt stop Big Ben from putting up QB1 numbers.

Im saying in order to comare apples to apples you have to compare Flacco this year to Big Ben in his 2nd/3rd year. Alot of the things you are saying about Flacco now applied to Big Ben back then. Good-Oline, Run first team, Big backs(they dont get any bigger than the bus). Ben didnt have a top 5 QB season in his first two seasons, just like Flacco hasnt.

Your most recent comparison is worthwhile.

Problem is you started out comparing Flacco/Ravens' and Ben/Steelers' 2009 performance (see bolded). Very different from what you just posted.

 

[Go deep]

Problem is you started out comparing Flacco/Ravens' and Ben/Steelers' 2009 performance (see bolded). Very different from what you just posted.

Pittsburgh didnt start out with the intentions of being a passing team, things just worked out that way. The same thing could happen to the Ravens at any time. Plus, Ben was a top 5 in 2007 and the Steelers ran far more than they passed. As a matter of fact, Ben attempted 404 passes that year. Last year, despite being a run first team, and having a 2nd year QB and no WR's, Flacco attempted 499 passes. So it seems pretty obvious the Ravens will throw enough to give Flacco an opportunity to be a top 5-8 QB in 2010.

 

[Go deep]

http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/2010/07/0...p-passing-game/

 

[humpback]

Im saying in order to comare apples to apples you have to compare Flacco this year to Big Ben in his 2nd/3rd year. Alot of the things you are saying about Flacco now applied to Big Ben back then. Good-Oline, Run first team, Big backs(they dont get any bigger than the bus). Ben didnt have a top 5 QB season in his first two seasons, just like Flacco hasnt.

Again, I was just responding to your post, where you compared Pitt and Baltimore last season. They weren't very similar last season. No one knows how they will compare this season yet.For the record, I like Flacco, and I'm not a huge fan of Ben's. I think Flacco could be a lower end #1 QB, and he is certainly young enough to expect some improvement. However, I also realize that just because similar things are being said about Flacco that were said about Ben, and they might be in similar situations (although not all that similar), that doesn't mean the outcomes will be the same. Of course things could change ala Pittsburgh, but they could also stay the same- just because the situation in Pittsburgh "changed" doesn't mean the same thing will happen in Baltimore. Plus, maybe Flacco just isn't as good as Ben?

 

[Go deep]

Im saying in order to comare apples to apples you have to compare Flacco this year to Big Ben in his 2nd/3rd year. Alot of the things you are saying about Flacco now applied to Big Ben back then. Good-Oline, Run first team, Big backs(they dont get any bigger than the bus). Ben didnt have a top 5 QB season in his first two seasons, just like Flacco hasnt.

Again, I was just responding to your post, where you compared Pitt and Baltimore last season. They weren't very similar last season. No one knows how they will compare this season yet.For the record, I like Flacco, and I'm not a huge fan of Ben's. I think Flacco could be a lower end #1 QB, and he is certainly young enough to expect some improvement. However, I also realize that just because similar things are being said about Flacco that were said about Ben, and they might be in similar situations (although not all that similar), that doesn't mean the outcomes will be the same. Of course things could change ala Pittsburgh, but they could also stay the same- just because the situation in Pittsburgh "changed" doesn't mean the same thing will happen in Baltimore. Plus, maybe Flacco just isn't as good as Ben?

Read the post three ahead of this one, and then the link in the one after that. If you dont think Flacco can ever be as good as Big Ben, thats one thing, but your original point was Flacco wouldnt produce because he was on a run first team. My point is that will not stop him from being a top 10 QB at some point in the future. Even if its 5 years from now when Rice is at the end of his career. Although i bet it will be sometime before that. I would bet good money he finishes as a #1 QB this year, barring injury of course.

 

[humpback]

Im saying in order to comare apples to apples you have to compare Flacco this year to Big Ben in his 2nd/3rd year. Alot of the things you are saying about Flacco now applied to Big Ben back then. Good-Oline, Run first team, Big backs(they dont get any bigger than the bus). Ben didnt have a top 5 QB season in his first two seasons, just like Flacco hasnt.

Again, I was just responding to your post, where you compared Pitt and Baltimore last season. They weren't very similar last season. No one knows how they will compare this season yet.For the record, I like Flacco, and I'm not a huge fan of Ben's. I think Flacco could be a lower end #1 QB, and he is certainly young enough to expect some improvement. However, I also realize that just because similar things are being said about Flacco that were said about Ben, and they might be in similar situations (although not all that similar), that doesn't mean the outcomes will be the same. Of course things could change ala Pittsburgh, but they could also stay the same- just because the situation in Pittsburgh "changed" doesn't mean the same thing will happen in Baltimore. Plus, maybe Flacco just isn't as good as Ben?

Read the post three ahead of this one, and then the link in the one after that. If you dont think Flacco can ever be as good as Big Ben, thats one thing, but your original point was Flacco wouldnt produce because he was on a run first team. My point is that will not stop him from being a top 10 QB at some point in the future. Even if its 5 years from now when Rice is at the end of his career. Although i bet it will be sometime before that. I would bet good money he finishes as a #1 QB this year, barring injury of course.

Yikes. I didn't have an "original" point, I was just saying that yours was flawed. Just scroll up and read, you said that Pittsburgh was a running team with a healthy OL and three wear you down RBs last year, but it didn't stop Big Ben from putting up QB1 numbers. That is false, that's all I was saying. End of conversation.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

I am buying the hype on Flacco. I like to take stud QB's early, but Flacco will be my backup plan if I get caught in a QB run. Excellent value and upside for his ADP. I'll try to pair him with McNabb if I miss out on a top tier QB.

 

[Go deep]

Im saying in order to comare apples to apples you have to compare Flacco this year to Big Ben in his 2nd/3rd year. Alot of the things you are saying about Flacco now applied to Big Ben back then. Good-Oline, Run first team, Big backs(they dont get any bigger than the bus). Ben didnt have a top 5 QB season in his first two seasons, just like Flacco hasnt.

Again, I was just responding to your post, where you compared Pitt and Baltimore last season. They weren't very similar last season. No one knows how they will compare this season yet.For the record, I like Flacco, and I'm not a huge fan of Ben's. I think Flacco could be a lower end #1 QB, and he is certainly young enough to expect some improvement. However, I also realize that just because similar things are being said about Flacco that were said about Ben, and they might be in similar situations (although not all that similar), that doesn't mean the outcomes will be the same. Of course things could change ala Pittsburgh, but they could also stay the same- just because the situation in Pittsburgh "changed" doesn't mean the same thing will happen in Baltimore. Plus, maybe Flacco just isn't as good as Ben?

Read the post three ahead of this one, and then the link in the one after that. If you dont think Flacco can ever be as good as Big Ben, thats one thing, but your original point was Flacco wouldnt produce because he was on a run first team. My point is that will not stop him from being a top 10 QB at some point in the future. Even if its 5 years from now when Rice is at the end of his career. Although i bet it will be sometime before that. I would bet good money he finishes as a #1 QB this year, barring injury of course.

Yikes. I didn't have an "original" point, I was just saying that yours was flawed. Just scroll up and read, you said that Pittsburgh was a running team with a healthy OL and three wear you down RBs last year, but it didn't stop Big Ben from putting up QB1 numbers. That is false, that's all I was saying. End of conversation.

Except i never said that?

 

[Abrantes]

Yikes. I didn't have an "original" point, I was just saying that yours was flawed. Just scroll up and read, you said that Pittsburgh was a running team with a healthy OL and three wear you down RBs last year, but it didn't stop Big Ben from putting up QB1 numbers. That is false, that's all I was saying. End of conversation.

Except i never said that?

You didn't?

Simple: b/c this is a running team with a healthy OL and three wear you down RBs.

So was Pittsburgh last year, that didnt stop Big Ben from putting up QB1 numbers.

 

[Go deep]

Yikes. I didn't have an "original" point, I was just saying that yours was flawed. Just scroll up and read, you said that Pittsburgh was a running team with a healthy OL and three wear you down RBs last year, but it didn't stop Big Ben from putting up QB1 numbers. That is false, that's all I was saying. End of conversation.

Except i never said that?

You didn't?

Simple: b/c this is a running team with a healthy OL and three wear you down RBs.

So was Pittsburgh last year, that didnt stop Big Ben from putting up QB1 numbers.

Nope

 

[Go deep]

If the 3rd preseason game is any indication, Flacco is in for a BIG year.

 

[Go deep]

20/31 220 yards, 2 TD's 0 int's in one half of football, plus leads the team in rushing.

 

[CrossEyed]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Go deep]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

No, i only have home leagues left, and none of my friends come here.

 

[Carl Eller's Dead Liver]

Everyone acts like Flacco has been around the league for a very long time. It was his 2nd year for cripes sacks! He improved last season and I expect him to improve this season for the above reasons. I think Flacco has a concensus ranking of #14 out of QB's, which I agree with coming into the year....but he has every bit as much upside as Ryan, Stafford (who FFG's are all over), Palmer, Kolb,.....and all the other guys ranked around him. I hear no mention that Flacco can make the next jump, which is kind of unfair. 21 TD's and 12 INT's for a 2nd year QB very respectable.

Let's look at the numbers for a few other QB's in their sophomore season's:

Peyton Manning: 4,135 yards, 26 TD's, 15 INT's

Eli Manning: 3,763, 24 TD's, 17 INT's

Carson Palmer: 2,897, 18 TD's, 18 INT's (13 games played)

Matt Ryan: 2,916, 22 TD's, 14 INT's

Jay Cutler: 3,497, 20 TD's, 14 INT's

Joe Flacco: 3,613, 21 TID's, 12 INT's

Other guys didn't play much or develop until long after their 2nd season: Rivers, Brees, Romo, Schuab, Brady. These guys were able to sit back and mature....but if they had played their numbers would have been much like Flacco's 2nd year numbers.

Given that Flacco was thrown to the wolves so to speak right out of college, I think he as adjusted well with really no WR's options around him. He's right there with Eli's 2nd year numbers and not too far from what Peyton's did his sophomore year.

Sigmund actually has McNabb, Eli, Kolb, Stafford, Palmer, and Ryan all rated ahead of Flacco. Sure you can make an argument for all of the above, but Joe will finish ahead of at least 3 of these 5 this year. Mark it down.

Just wanted to bring this back up. Here's the scoring from my league this year which is fairly standard for QB scoring. Flacco finished about where I thought he would....in the 7-12 range......all of these QB's were only separated by 15-20 points.Ryan: 301 points

Eli: 300 points

Palmer: 286 points

Flacco: 281 points

McNabb: 223 points

Stafford and Kolb: Not even worth mentioning.

So my point being is with all the savage Sigmund was giving Flacco, he finished right there in top 10 consideration......only being separated by 20 points from Matt Ryan and Eli Manning. If my memory is correct, Sigmund also thought Sanchez and Vince Young would finish ahead of Flacco in 2010.

Will Flacco ever be elite? Top 5 fantasy QB? Not likely, but that was not my point. My point was he is top 10 and reliable. You can draft him with confidence in the 5th-6th round and not have to worry about QB. Flacco is underrated.....especially around these boards and on the Audible.

Care to change your opinion a bit Mr. Bloom?

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Everyone acts like Flacco has been around the league for a very long time. It was his 2nd year for cripes sacks! He improved last season and I expect him to improve this season for the above reasons. I think Flacco has a concensus ranking of #14 out of QB's, which I agree with coming into the year....but he has every bit as much upside as Ryan, Stafford (who FFG's are all over), Palmer, Kolb,.....and all the other guys ranked around him. I hear no mention that Flacco can make the next jump, which is kind of unfair. 21 TD's and 12 INT's for a 2nd year QB very respectable.

Let's look at the numbers for a few other QB's in their sophomore season's:

Peyton Manning: 4,135 yards, 26 TD's, 15 INT's

Eli Manning: 3,763, 24 TD's, 17 INT's

Carson Palmer: 2,897, 18 TD's, 18 INT's (13 games played)

Matt Ryan: 2,916, 22 TD's, 14 INT's

Jay Cutler: 3,497, 20 TD's, 14 INT's

Joe Flacco: 3,613, 21 TID's, 12 INT's

Other guys didn't play much or develop until long after their 2nd season: Rivers, Brees, Romo, Schuab, Brady. These guys were able to sit back and mature....but if they had played their numbers would have been much like Flacco's 2nd year numbers.

Given that Flacco was thrown to the wolves so to speak right out of college, I think he as adjusted well with really no WR's options around him. He's right there with Eli's 2nd year numbers and not too far from what Peyton's did his sophomore year.

Sigmund actually has McNabb, Eli, Kolb, Stafford, Palmer, and Ryan all rated ahead of Flacco. Sure you can make an argument for all of the above, but Joe will finish ahead of at least 3 of these 5 this year. Mark it down.

Just wanted to bring this back up. Here's the scoring from my league this year which is fairly standard for QB scoring. Flacco finished about where I thought he would....in the 7-12 range......all of these QB's were only separated by 15-20 points.Ryan: 301 points

Eli: 300 points

Palmer: 286 points

Flacco: 281 points

McNabb: 223 points

Stafford and Kolb: Not even worth mentioning.

So my point being is with all the savage Sigmund was giving Flacco, he finished right there in top 10 consideration......only being separated by 20 points from Matt Ryan and Eli Manning. If my memory is correct, Sigmund also thought Sanchez and Vince Young would finish ahead of Flacco in 2010.

Will Flacco ever be elite? Top 5 fantasy QB? Not likely, but that was not my point. My point was he is top 10 and reliable. You can draft him with confidence in the 5th-6th round and not have to worry about QB. Flacco is underrated.....especially around these boards and on the Audible.

Care to change your opinion a bit Mr. Bloom?

I commented on Flacco's progress as a decision-maker and leader many times on the Audible this year. I still think we have basically seen his ceiling for fantasy - a low-end high-floor QB1 who is never going to join the elite. He has moved up to 17 in my dynasty rankings.