Why was Ronnie Brown selected ahead of Cadillac? (1 Viewer)

[Liquid Tension]

This should be no surprise. Tuberville was very clear when questioned about the two that Carnell is the better inside runner and Ronnie is the better outside runner.It speaks again to the fact that Carnell has the natural ability while Ronnie has the specs (general statement).What does this mean in the NFL?Great post, MLB.

You can lead a horse to water but maybe you should just shoot the horse. Could it be, maybe that Ronnie Brown was asked to try and convert many more short 3rd and 1's behind a very weak center and weak RG? Anytime you have short yardage plays your YPC will suffer. is it possible that maybe someone else on TB took some of those carries? Is it possible that up the middle the OL is stronger than Miami's? For some reason at college over a much larger statistical period RB's YPC were a lot higher than Caddy's? Maybe there are other reasons other than Caddy being a better power back.? This coming from someone who really likes Caddy, but you guys are throwing up 2nd grade material

Not sure if it could be. I do know what was...their college coach said Brown was better outside and Williams better inside.Take it for what it's worth...which would be something to most people.

I could see a coach making that quote because Brown is faster yet it would seem that Caddy has better vision. Caddy runs very hard but just isn't as powerful a runner as Brown as in runningh over a guy. People also might not understand that running inside does not always mean you are a good short yardage or powerful runner. Many times it has to do with vision, decisiveness to get through the whole when the defense is not in short yardage mode. So an off tackle play to get short yardage may be better suited for Brown, it is possible that the inside handoff to Caddy was more effective at college because he was able to get to the 2nd level better when not in short yardage situations.This is possible

Sounds like you agree with my statement then. Carnell got the rock at the goalline at Auburn and was considered a better inside runner by his coach because he has superior vision, balance, decisiveness,etc...generally natural RB traits that cannot be learned.Brown was considered a better outside runner by his coach because of his combo of speed and power...generally physical traits that cannot be learned.

Well, yes and no. If you read what I wrote (or what I was trying to say), was that when lines are stacked (short yardage) Brown would be much better at moving the pile, but in the middle of the field on 1st and 10 Caddy may be the better inside runner because his vision can spot the gaps better. Therefore, Caddy is a better inside runner is only referring to some of the time but NOT referring to him being a more powerful inside runner. Brown is better outside and a better receiver and much better blocker.Obviously we will know a lot more this year; should be fun.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Carnell Williams has the finest sense of balance and 6th sense (body perception) of anyone in the NFL not named Tomlinson. I agree, it will be fun to see his career unfold, but I will be extremely shocked if we ever decide that Ronnie Brown was a better selection on any level.

COlin

 

[jurb26]

Carnell Williams has the finest sense of balance and 6th sense (body perception) of anyone in the NFL not named Tomlinson. I agree, it will be fun to see his career unfold, but I will be extremely shocked if we ever decide that Ronnie Brown was a better selection on any level.COlin

 

[Colin Dowling]

Carnell Williams has the finest sense of balance and 6th sense (body perception) of anyone in the NFL not named Tomlinson. I agree, it will be fun to see his career unfold, but I will be extremely shocked if we ever decide that Ronnie Brown was a better selection on any level.COlin

I imagine you either disagree or just got back from a root canal. PLease elaborate...

 

[jurb26]

Carnell Williams has the finest sense of balance and 6th sense (body perception) of anyone in the NFL not named Tomlinson. I agree, it will be fun to see his career unfold, but I will be extremely shocked if we ever decide that Ronnie Brown was a better selection on any level.COlin

I imagine you either disagree or just got back from a root canal. PLease elaborate...

Why bother when stuff like this is being thrown out there.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Carnell Williams has the finest sense of balance and 6th sense (body perception) of anyone in the NFL not named Tomlinson. I agree, it will be fun to see his career unfold, but I will be extremely shocked if we ever decide that Ronnie Brown was a better selection on any level.COlin

I imagine you either disagree or just got back from a root canal. PLease elaborate...

Why bother when stuff like this is being thrown out there.

Good answer.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Carnell Williams has the finest sense of balance and 6th sense (body perception) of anyone in the NFL not named Tomlinson. I agree, it will be fun to see his career unfold, but I will be extremely shocked if we ever decide that Ronnie Brown was a better selection on any level.COlin

Are you talking about fantasy or real football? You say any level so I am assuming we mean pro football. If this is the case you are mistaken as there is simply no question that Brown is better all around. If I concede that Caddy is better when the rock is in his hands, it is clear that Brown is a better receiver, and blocker and is faster and bigger and stronger; being able to move the pile. I also believe that Brown scored higher on the wonderlick (if that means anything) Not sure where any level comes into play?

 

[EBF]

If I concede that Caddy is better when the rock is in his hands, it is clear that Brown is a better receiver, and blocker and is faster and bigger and stronger; being able to move the pile.

Playing running back in the NFL isn't about being big and fast in a straight line.Caddy runs a lot lower than Brown and is lot shiftier. That's very important. I feel extremely confident in saying Williams will have more career yards when it's all said and done.

 

[Liquid Tension]

If I concede that Caddy is better when the rock is in his hands, it is clear that Brown is a better receiver, and blocker and is faster and bigger and stronger; being able to move the pile.

Playing running back in the NFL isn't about being big and fast in a straight line.Caddy runs a lot lower than Brown and is lot shiftier. That's very important. I feel extremely confident in saying Williams will have more career yards when it's all said and done.

Can't disagree with your comments. Unsure about the conclusion though. Ronnie has great acceleration and that is helpful. From what I see, Caddy is able to stay closer to full speed when cutting and that is a big plus for Caddy. I think Ronnie was learning a lot in the league his first year as what he did in college is less effective. That does not mean it is not effective or that he doesn't have the skills to be greater than Caddy.. I think we have seen the best from Caddy, but we have not from Ronnie yet. If Caddy stays healthy his best is really good.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Carnell Williams has the finest sense of balance and 6th sense (body perception) of anyone in the NFL not named Tomlinson. I agree, it will be fun to see his career unfold, but I will be extremely shocked if we ever decide that Ronnie Brown was a better selection on any level.COlin

Are you talking about fantasy or real football? You say any level so I am assuming we mean pro football. If this is the case you are mistaken as there is simply no question that Brown is better all around. If I concede that Caddy is better when the rock is in his hands, it is clear that Brown is a better receiver, and blocker and is faster and bigger and stronger; being able to move the pile. I also believe that Brown scored higher on the wonderlick (if that means anything) Not sure where any level comes into play?

I'd be interested in hearing your case that Brown is better "all around." If you suggest he is a better receiver, then I conceed that he is a better receiver and his numbers back that up. However, the "bigger, faster stronger" doesn't make him better and the "being able to move the pile" is painfully inexact. I happen to think Williams is better.COlin

 

[jurb26]

Carnell Williams has the finest sense of balance and 6th sense (body perception) of anyone in the NFL not named Tomlinson. I agree, it will be fun to see his career unfold, but I will be extremely shocked if we ever decide that Ronnie Brown was a better selection on any level.COlin

Are you talking about fantasy or real football? You say any level so I am assuming we mean pro football. If this is the case you are mistaken as there is simply no question that Brown is better all around. If I concede that Caddy is better when the rock is in his hands, it is clear that Brown is a better receiver, and blocker and is faster and bigger and stronger; being able to move the pile. I also believe that Brown scored higher on the wonderlick (if that means anything) Not sure where any level comes into play?

I'd be interested in hearing your case that Brown is better "all around." If you suggest he is a better receiver, then I conceed that he is a better receiver and his numbers back that up. However, the "bigger, faster stronger" doesn't make him better and the "being able to move the pile" is painfully inexact. I happen to think Williams is better.COlin

Everything in this thread has been inexact. It's all been opinion. I would bet you don't change your no matter how convincing the arguement is for Brown and Brown fans will do the same for a Caddy arguement. Both players have tons of talent and are too young to seperate just yet. Pick your stile of RB and be happy. Whats bad about this thread is that people are trying to act as though there is a wide margin between these 2 players and there is clearly not... nearly all of those people happen to be Caddy fans.

 

[joffer]

Everything in this thread has been inexact. It's all been opinion. I would bet you don't change your no matter how convincing the arguement is for Brown and Brown fans will do the same for a Caddy arguement. Both players have tons of talent and are too young to seperate just yet. Pick your stile of RB and be happy.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Everything in this thread has been inexact. It's all been opinion. I would bet you don't change your no matter how convincing the arguement is for Brown and Brown fans will do the same for a Caddy arguement. Both players have tons of talent and are too young to seperate just yet. Pick your stile of RB and be happy.

Oh, as I said, I was late checking in. Carry on...

 

[Footballhead]

Nick Saban selected Ronnie over Caddy because his wuss D at LSU kept complaining to him about how Ronnie is hurting them..physically. Who will turn out better?...Bubba knows. As to comparison, I enjoy watching Caddy over Ronnie. On top of that, to think what Gruden did with Charlie Garner, and what he could get out of Caddy for years to come, I think Caddy's upside is higher.

 

[MLBrandow]

Well, yes and no. If you read what I wrote (or what I was trying to say), was that when lines are stacked (short yardage) Brown would be much better at moving the pile, but in the middle of the field on 1st and 10 Caddy may be the better inside runner because his vision can spot the gaps better. Therefore, Caddy is a better inside runner is only referring to some of the time but NOT referring to him being a more powerful inside runner. Brown is better outside and a better receiver and much better blocker.

Obviously we will know a lot more this year; should be fun.

It's a good thing that we can track these sorts of things over the course of a season.Cadillac Williams:

vs. Blitz: 41/222/TD (5.4avg)

vs. 6+ DL: 30/147TD (4.9avg)

BT40s: 61/212/0, FL (3.5avg, 1.64% FR)

Ronnie Brown:

vs. Blitz: 41/143/0, FL (3.5avg, 2.44% FR)

vs. 6+DL: 14/41/2TD, 2FL (2.9avg, 14.29% FR)

BT40s: 44/244/0 (5.5avg)

Won't dispute the last part though. As a dump-off receiver out of the backfield, clearly he is better right now than Cadillac, who is still working at it (with moderate success at best right now). And naturally he is also a much better blocker, as Ronnie Brown outweighs him by a clearn 15 pounds.

Ronnie has great acceleration and that is helpful. From what I see, Caddy is able to stay closer to full speed when cutting and that is a big plus for Caddy. I think Ronnie was learning a lot in the league his first year as what he did in college is less effective. That does not mean it is not effective or that he doesn't have the skills to be greater than Caddy.. I think we have seen the best from Caddy, but we have not from Ronnie yet. If Caddy stays healthy his best is really good.

Couple things that I have observed in watching both extensively. Cadillac had a problem last year on some of his bigger runs because he was at full speed and trying to cut, which I addressed earlier. He says he's fixed it heading into this season, which is a plus for him, and all signs from TC indicate that he has.I completely agree Brown had a huge adjustment problem his rookie year, and it didn't help that Ricky came back when he was just being phased in.

I agree that he has better physical tools than Cadillac, but as has been discussed several times in this thread already, those are not the half of what makes a great running back great. The biggest problem he had was that he kept, as you said, trying to use his same bag of tricks from college that worked against leaner, slower defenders, and of course they were much less effective.

As such, it's much more important for him to be transitioned into a feature back, rather than being thrown into the fire. Cadillac was ready, but Brown was not and still isn't.

I believe someone mentioned him earlier as having a bit of a confidence problem and being indecisive last season, which was the culprit for most of his observable deficiencies. I agree with this mostly, and think that until he decides to be a finesse back or a power back, he'll have a problem. While I don't think he will possibly succeed as a power back, I do think he'll have good success if his skills can be mentored as a Westbrook-type player. Granted he's 232lbs and runs a straight-line 4.4, he's shown thusfar that he is ineffective as a power back, and lacks breakaway speed (either latent decision-making skills or his weight are to blame for his slow cuts, perhaps both).

My thing is that he's just not setup to succeed this year, yet people can't pimp him enough. So far in camp he's yet to show he has solved any of these problems, and instead of trying to work him into the lineup again, because of the utter lack of options available to Saban, he has no choice but to once again throw him into the fire, and it's just going to lead to a big mess.

If this is the case you are mistaken as there is simply no question that Brown is better all around. If I concede that Caddy is better when the rock is in his hands, it is clear that Brown is a better receiver, and blocker and is faster and bigger and stronger; being able to move the pile. I also believe that Brown scored higher on the wonderlick (if that means anything) Not sure where any level comes into play?

Last I checked, the better running back is the one who is better when the rock is in his hands.

 

[Otis]

Carnell Williams has the finest sense of balance and 6th sense (body perception) of anyone in the NFL not named Tomlinson. I agree, it will be fun to see his career unfold, but I will be extremely shocked if we ever decide that Ronnie Brown was a better selection on any level.COlin

Despite COlin's propensity to pick the guy in each draft who I think is a total loser (Benson, White, etc.), I agree completely here.

 

[Marc Levin]

Showed great ability to catch the ball out of the backfield.

AND block.His two greatest strengths - blocking and catching - were the two things the Dolpuhions were looking for - those are REALLY hard to teach young RBs, and make a back who LIKES doing those thingsd much mnore desirable when he RUNS the way Brown runs.Brown runs with much more power than Cadillac, yet also can run away from people - and his ability to find the spaces between the tackles was sweet in college. Cadillac is a smoother runner, a faster runner, and has nice cutting ability.

 

[LHUCKS]

Just saw this thread so I'm admittedly late chimiing in...Brown was selected ahead of Carnell b/c the Dolphins made a mistake.I think that was said before by my GB Lhucks.

 

[jdoggydogg]

Showed great ability to catch the ball out of the backfield.

AND block.His two greatest strengths - blocking and catching - were the two things the Dolpuhions were looking for - those are REALLY hard to teach young RBs, and make a back who LIKES doing those thingsd much mnore desirable when he RUNS the way Brown runs.Brown runs with much more power than Cadillac, yet also can run away from people - and his ability to find the spaces between the tackles was sweet in college. Cadillac is a smoother runner, a faster runner, and has nice cutting ability.

And he doesn't run upright like Brown does. I think Ronnie is a beast, but I have to think that style of running means that Ronnie will take a lot of big hits.

 

[brakeyawself]

Showed great ability to catch the ball out of the backfield.

AND block.His two greatest strengths - blocking and catching - were the two things the Dolpuhions were looking for - those are REALLY hard to teach young RBs, and make a back who LIKES doing those thingsd much mnore desirable when he RUNS the way Brown runs.Brown runs with much more power than Cadillac, yet also can run away from people - and his ability to find the spaces between the tackles was sweet in college. Cadillac is a smoother runner, a faster runner, and has nice cutting ability.

And he doesn't run upright like Brown does. I think Ronnie is a beast, but I have to think that style of running means that Ronnie will take a lot of big hits.

Well, big hits or not, from watching last year, it still looks like Caddy misses games. I think Ronnie Can take it. Now Im just waiting for Cedric Benson to pick it up so he can move past Caddy too......

 

[Sabertooth]

Carnell Williams has the finest sense of balance and 6th sense (body perception) of anyone in the NFL not named Tomlinson. I agree, it will be fun to see his career unfold, but I will be extremely shocked if we ever decide that Ronnie Brown was a better selection on any level.COlin

It's getting deep in here boys. Caddy's now got a mystical 6th sense that all back in the NFL not named Tomlinson do. I've also heard that he kills men by the hundreds. And if HE were here, he'd consume the English with fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his ####.

 

[gump]

Sounds like you agree with my statement then. Carnell got the rock at the goalline at Auburn and was considered a better inside runner by his coach because he has superior vision, balance, decisiveness,etc...generally natural RB traits that cannot be learned.Brown was considered a better outside runner by his coach because of his combo of speed and power...generally physical traits that cannot be learned.

Well, yes and no. If you read what I wrote (or what I was trying to say), was that when lines are stacked (short yardage) Brown would be much better at moving the pile, but in the middle of the field on 1st and 10 Caddy may be the better inside runner because his vision can spot the gaps better. Therefore, Caddy is a better inside runner is only referring to some of the time but NOT referring to him being a more powerful inside runner. Brown is better outside and a better receiver and much better blocker.Obviously we will know a lot more this year; should be fun.

I'll say it again, because this fact doesn't seem to be sinking in. Carnell Williams was the goal line back at Auburn. Not sure how much clearer it can be that Tuberville believed Carnell to be a better inside runner...either on 1st and 10 from the 30 or 3rd and Goal from the 1.

 

[Snotbubbles]

I'll say it again, because this fact doesn't seem to be sinking in. Carnell Williams was the goal line back at Auburn. Not sure how much clearer it can be that Tuberville believed Carnell to be a better inside runner...either on 1st and 10 from the 30 or 3rd and Goal from the 1.

Quite possibly he may have felt that Ronnie Brown was better suited to be the blocking fullback and have Carnell run it then vice versa.What really may have hurt Brown is that fact that he is bigger and is a better blocker. It would be foolish for Tuberville to line Ronnie Brown up at tailback and have Carnell be the lead blocker. It's much more effective the other way.

 

[brakeyawself]

I'll say it again, because this fact doesn't seem to be sinking in. Carnell Williams was the goal line back at Auburn. Not sure how much clearer it can be that Tuberville believed Carnell to be a better inside runner...either on 1st and 10 from the 30 or 3rd and Goal from the 1.

Quite possibly he may have felt that Ronnie Brown was better suited to be the blocking fullback and have Carnell run it then vice versa.What really may have hurt Brown is that fact that he is bigger and is a better blocker. It would be foolish for Tuberville to line Ronnie Brown up at tailback and have Carnell be the lead blocker. It's much more effective the other way.

Yea. This is quite possible. The college game is so different from the NFL game.

 

[gump]

I'll say it again, because this fact doesn't seem to be sinking in. Carnell Williams was the goal line back at Auburn. Not sure how much clearer it can be that Tuberville believed Carnell to be a better inside runner...either on 1st and 10 from the 30 or 3rd and Goal from the 1.

Quite possibly he may have felt that Ronnie Brown was better suited to be the blocking fullback and have Carnell run it then vice versa.What really may have hurt Brown is that fact that he is bigger and is a better blocker. It would be foolish for Tuberville to line Ronnie Brown up at tailback and have Carnell be the lead blocker. It's much more effective the other way.

It's possible, but doubtful IMO (without looking it up). Auburn is known for it's big, "country-boy", bruising fullbacks...the last two being Heath Evans and Brandon Johnson.

 

[Snotbubbles]

It's possible, but doubtful IMO (without looking it up). Auburn is known for it's big, "country-boy", bruising fullbacks...the last two being Heath Evans and Brandon Johnson

Looked up their 2004 roster. The only Runningbacks I could find that were at least 220lbs were:Carl Stewart 6'2" 232 lbsWill Herring 6'3 221 lbsNot exactly what I would call big, "country boy" bruising fullbacks, especially considering that Ronnie Brown is listed at 6'0" 232 lbs.

 

[gump]

It's possible, but doubtful IMO (without looking it up). Auburn is known for it's big, "country-boy", bruising fullbacks...the last two being Heath Evans and Brandon Johnson

Looked up their 2004 roster. The only Runningbacks I could find that were at least 220lbs were:Carl Stewart 6'2" 232 lbsWill Herring 6'3 221 lbsNot exactly what I would call big, "country boy" bruising fullbacks, especially considering that Ronnie Brown is listed at 6'0" 232 lbs.

Brandon Johnson was there from 2000-2003 and weighed in at 235...and was beloved for his small-town charm (from Bayou La Batre), strength, and toughness. He was signed by the Falcons in '04 as a FA, and cut a few months later.Can't speak to '04. But Johnson was clearly the blocking back prior.Not sure why we are even debating this honestly...Tuberville clearly preferred Carnell in short-yardage situations and declared Carnell to be a better inside runner. Those are the facts...everything else is a guess.

 

[jurb26]

It's possible, but doubtful IMO (without looking it up). Auburn is known for it's big, "country-boy", bruising fullbacks...the last two being Heath Evans and Brandon Johnson

Looked up their 2004 roster. The only Runningbacks I could find that were at least 220lbs were:Carl Stewart 6'2" 232 lbsWill Herring 6'3 221 lbsNot exactly what I would call big, "country boy" bruising fullbacks, especially considering that Ronnie Brown is listed at 6'0" 232 lbs.

Brandon Johnson was there from 2000-2003 and weighed in at 235...and was beloved for his small-town charm (from Bayou La Batre), strength, and toughness. He was signed by the Falcons in '04 as a FA, and cut a few months later.Can't speak to '04. But Johnson was clearly the blocking back prior.Not sure why we are even debating this honestly...Tuberville clearly preferred Carnell in short-yardage situations and declared Carnell to be a better inside runner. Those are the facts...everything else is a guess.

Thurman Thomas was once declaired a better RB at OSU than Barry Sanders... whats your point. They are in the NFL now.

 

[gump]

It's possible, but doubtful IMO (without looking it up). Auburn is known for it's big, "country-boy", bruising fullbacks...the last two being Heath Evans and Brandon Johnson

Looked up their 2004 roster. The only Runningbacks I could find that were at least 220lbs were:Carl Stewart 6'2" 232 lbsWill Herring 6'3 221 lbsNot exactly what I would call big, "country boy" bruising fullbacks, especially considering that Ronnie Brown is listed at 6'0" 232 lbs.

Brandon Johnson was there from 2000-2003 and weighed in at 235...and was beloved for his small-town charm (from Bayou La Batre), strength, and toughness. He was signed by the Falcons in '04 as a FA, and cut a few months later.Can't speak to '04. But Johnson was clearly the blocking back prior.Not sure why we are even debating this honestly...Tuberville clearly preferred Carnell in short-yardage situations and declared Carnell to be a better inside runner. Those are the facts...everything else is a guess.

Thurman Thomas was once declaired a better RB at OSU than Barry Sanders... whats your point. They are in the NFL now.

My point was that their college coach considered and declared one better on the inside and one better on the out.Others have disputed...and even called the argument "2nd grade material".Things can certainly change in the NFL, but why was Carnell a better option in his coaches eyes on the inside, when he was much lighter? I BELIEVE it's because Carnell has more natural RB ability...balance, vision, explosiveness, decision-making...while Ronnie has more natural RB traits...size, speed. Carnell already has what it takes to be a success in the NFL...Ronnie needs to get better running the football to do so, IMO.So, back to the topic, Saban drafted based on specs and potential...while Gruden loved Carnell for what he already saw.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Carnell Williams has the finest sense of balance and 6th sense (body perception) of anyone in the NFL not named Tomlinson. I agree, it will be fun to see his career unfold, but I will be extremely shocked if we ever decide that Ronnie Brown was a better selection on any level.

COlin

It's getting deep in here boys. Caddy's now got a mystical 6th sense that all back in the NFL not named Tomlinson do. I've also heard that he kills men by the hundreds. And if HE were here, he'd consume the English with fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his ####.

"In addition to the familiar five senses—touch, sight, smell, hearing, and taste—scientists know of a sixth sense called proprioception It 's the sense of where your body is in space that allows you to touch your nose even with your eyes closed. Proprioception (PRO-pree-oh-ception) also informs balance and how to put one foot in front of the other to walk without looking at your feet."Link

Try thinking a little bit before trying to be clever...

Colin

 

[Sabertooth]

Carnell Williams has the finest sense of balance and 6th sense (body perception) of anyone in the NFL not named Tomlinson. I agree, it will be fun to see his career unfold, but I will be extremely shocked if we ever decide that Ronnie Brown was a better selection on any level.

COlin

It's getting deep in here boys. Caddy's now got a mystical 6th sense that all back in the NFL not named Tomlinson do. I've also heard that he kills men by the hundreds. And if HE were here, he'd consume the English with fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his ####.

"In addition to the familiar five senses—touch, sight, smell, hearing, and taste—scientists know of a sixth sense called proprioception It 's the sense of where your body is in space that allows you to touch your nose even with your eyes closed. Proprioception (PRO-pree-oh-ception) also informs balance and how to put one foot in front of the other to walk without looking at your feet."Link

Try thinking a little bit before trying to be clever...

Colin

Wow. Just wow. So he's good at putting his hand on his nose? Or putting one foot in front of the other? And only he and Ladainian know how to do this? Seems to me every normal, healthy human being can do both of these things. You are really reaching. Just stop, you are making a fool of yourself.

 

[jurb26]

So, back to the topic, Saban drafted based on specs and potential...while Gruden loved Carnell for what he already saw.

You can't honestly believe this. This thread is out of hand.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Carnell Williams has the finest sense of balance and 6th sense (body perception) of anyone in the NFL not named Tomlinson. I agree, it will be fun to see his career unfold, but I will be extremely shocked if we ever decide that Ronnie Brown was a better selection on any level.

COlin

It's getting deep in here boys. Caddy's now got a mystical 6th sense that all back in the NFL not named Tomlinson do. I've also heard that he kills men by the hundreds. And if HE were here, he'd consume the English with fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his ####.

"In addition to the familiar five senses—touch, sight, smell, hearing, and taste—scientists know of a sixth sense called proprioception It 's the sense of where your body is in space that allows you to touch your nose even with your eyes closed. Proprioception (PRO-pree-oh-ception) also informs balance and how to put one foot in front of the other to walk without looking at your feet."Link

Try thinking a little bit before trying to be clever...

Colin

Wow. Just wow. So he's good at putting his hand on his nose? Or putting one foot in front of the other? And only he and Ladainian know how to do this? Seems to me every normal, healthy human being can do both of these things. You are really reaching. Just stop, you are making a fool of yourself.

I'm bored, so I'll dignify this with a response: The concept is called "proprioception" and essentially pertains to how your mind processes your body (and it's limbs) and it's position in space - essentially how your brain responds to your equilibrium and balance.. As such, the assertion I have made (which I stand by) is that Carnell's sense of his body in space is excellent and it benefits him as a football player.

 

[gump]

So, back to the topic, Saban drafted based on specs and potential...while Gruden loved Carnell for what he already saw.

You can't honestly believe this. This thread is out of hand.

Why is that surprising to you? Williams started over Brown.Why do you think Brown went ahead of Williams?

 

[jurb26]

So, back to the topic, Saban drafted based on specs and potential...while Gruden loved Carnell for what he already saw.

You can't honestly believe this. This thread is out of hand.

Why is that surprising to you? Williams started over Brown.

Coaching at LSU and playing Auburn every year, you don't think Saban ever "saw" anythnig from the 2 backs year in and year out? He choose what HE SAW as the better football player, RB and fit for the Mia Dolfins. End of story. Like it or not, his opinion is clearly differently than yours and it seems the Caddy crowd is having a very difficult time accepting the fact that he may in fact be a lesser RB than Brown. Why that is is beyond me. I guess some of you just have far too strong an attatchment to the guy for whatever reason.

 

[RedBird33]

It's hard for me to be objective since I took Caddy over Brown in a Keeper last year but having said that I stand by my decision. From what I have seen from both backs so far in college and the pros I think he will be and is presently the better of the two players and if I was presented with the same choice again I would select Williams.

For what it's worth, I think Saban and the Dolphins made a mistake but Only time will tell.

 

[Acme CEO]

Caddilac Williams once learned the art of flight in ninja school, but refuses to use it on the football field because it would make the game "boring."

 

[Acme CEO]

Caddilac Williams once stiff armed Oprah in the face. Why? Because he's Caddilac Williams #####!

 

[Acme CEO]

Caddilac Williams once made Chuck Norris whiff on a round-house.

 

[gump]

So, back to the topic, Saban drafted based on specs and potential...while Gruden loved Carnell for what he already saw.

You can't honestly believe this. This thread is out of hand.

Why is that surprising to you? Williams started over Brown.

Coaching at LSU and playing Auburn every year, you don't think Saban ever "saw" anythnig from the 2 backs year in and year out? He choose what HE SAW as the better football player, RB and fit for the Mia Dolfins. End of story. Like it or not, his opinion is clearly differently than yours and it seems the Caddy crowd is having a very difficult time accepting the fact that he may in fact be a lesser RB than Brown. Why that is is beyond me. I guess some of you just have far too strong an attatchment to the guy for whatever reason.

I agree that Saban sees a better fit for him in Brown, Gruden sees a better fit in Carnell. I said so earlier in the thread. I do believe though that Saban projected an upside he may not have seen, while Gruden saw what he wanted to right in front of him.I also have no problem with Brown being a better back either down the road, just stating the facts that Carnell did start over him, and was the short-yardage back despite being smaller. It's also pretty obvious to me and many that he is a more natural running back.

 

[brakeyawself]

Cadillac once got injured and missed too much playing time. And Chuck Norris was no where to be seen.....

It's a shame his proprioception might not keep him healthy through out his career. Nor does it help him catch. If he turns into another Deshaun Foster, Willis McGahee, at least he'll be able to sense where his crutches are going, right? That's probably why I go Brown. Really, how bad could Browns balance be in comparison to Williams? I'd say its near moot.

 

[Marc Levin]

declared Carnell to be a better inside runner. Those are the facts ...everything else is a guess.

Really? Link to that "declaration?"

 

[brakeyawself]

declared Carnell to be a better inside runner. Those are the facts ...everything else is a guess.

Really? Link to that "declaration?"

I hear if you look in the encyclopedia under "Inside Running" Caddy and Mercury are ranked 1 and 2 respectively. I think the Babylonians actually had a holiday celebrating him. Then Merc came along and stole the show.

 

[Marc Levin]

I'm sure I'm not the only one looking at the numbers - and I'm sure you all discussed this in the previoius 4 pages, but for anyone who didn't do a side by side comparison:

Brown, in limited and split time, had:

207 carries, 907 yards, 4.4 YPC, 4 rush TDs - add in 32 catches, 232 receiving yards, and a TD

(for the math chellenged, that is 241 touches, 1139 total yards, 5 total TDs)

Cadillac as the every down back had:

290 carries, 1178 yards, a 4.1 YPC average, , 6 rush TDs, and added in 20 catches, but for only 81 yards and no rec. TDs.

(again, for the math challenged, that is 310 touches, 1259 total yards, 6 total TDs)

Looks like pretty close to the same contributions to their teams in terms of touches versus yardage/TDs - in fact, Brown was much more effective on his fewer touches, and he contributes a REAL threat out of the backfield and a REAL blocking presence. Williams, it seems, either doesn't know how, or is still learning, those parts of the game. Wiliams may be a more polished RUNNER right now, but that does not mean he is a better RUNNING BACK - or better for his team.

Maybe Saban wanted the back that was more "NFL-ready" to be an all around back instead of the back more ready to open eyes purely as a runner.

Like who you like, but they look like pretty close to the same "can't miss" prospects to me.

(incidentally, the two players had nearly identical statistics in the red zone)

Jury's out, ya freeks - these are two superstar RBs in the making , and neither coach made ANY kind of "mistake."

 

[Sabertooth]

This thread rocks. Glad I started it.

 

[MLBrandow]

Even though I'm naturally biased because I've chosen a clear side in this argument, I feel like the pro-Cadillac posters have clearly dominated this debate. What has been the big sticking points for Brown? He ran a 4.4 at the combine. Saban picked him #2.Call me crazy, but I've always been the type to take production over potential. Potential a lot of times doesn't pan out, but production already has.Cadillac started over Brown at Auburn. He outproduced Brown last year. He was the anchor for a playoff team. No matter how you slice the splits, Cadillac was better in every statistical category except fumbling percentage and wide running.Pro-Brown posters seem to be regressing towards circular reasoning and making crude jokes to defend their back, while Pro-Cadillac posters have used a plethora of numbers, stats, game-film and other modicums of measurement.I'm not sure that we can debate this topic much further, but needless to say, LHUCKS, myself, Colin, Gump and Otis are on the same side of the debate.This should tell you something.

I'm sure I'm not the only one looking at the numbers - and I'm sure you all discussed this in the previoius 4 pages, but for anyone who didn't do a side by side comparison:

see Post 87.

 

[Sabertooth]

Even though I'm naturally biased because I've chosen a clear side in this argument, I feel like the pro-Cadillac posters have clearly dominated this debate. What has been the big sticking points for Brown? He ran a 4.4 at the combine. Saban picked him #2.Call me crazy, but I've always been the type to take production over potential. Potential a lot of times doesn't pan out, but production already has.Cadillac started over Brown at Auburn. He outproduced Brown last year. He was the anchor for a playoff team. No matter how you slice the splits, Cadillac was better in every statistical category except fumbling percentage and wide running.Pro-Brown posters seem to be regressing towards circular reasoning and making crude jokes to defend their back, while Pro-Cadillac posters have used a plethora of numbers, stats, game-film and other modicums of measurement.I'm not sure that we can debate this topic much further, but needless to say, LHUCKS, myself, Colin, Gump and Otis are on the same side of the debate.This should tell you something.

First your crazy.Next Nick Saban liked Ronnie, I like Ronnie. IMHO Nick > Gruden as a talent evaluator. You say production already has panned out. Well, Ronnie produced almost as good of stats as Caddy while in a part-time role. He had to split with Ricky Williams. The same Ricky that was the All-time leading rusher in NCAA history. Caddy's only competition for carries came from Michael Pittman. Let me phrase this another way. If Cadillac is so dominant in comparison to Brown, how did Ronnie get on the field at all at Auburn? You can like who you like, and the Ronnie lovers will do the same. Both are obviously talented. Both are in a virtual dead-heat as far as stats go thus far. Both might do on to have amazing careers. It's ok. FWIW I have Ronnie rated #6 this season and Cadillac at #9. That ain't much of a difference.

 

[Marc Levin]

He outproduced Brown last year. He was the anchor for a playoff team. No matter how you slice the splits, Cadillac was better in every statistical category except fumbling percentage and wide running.

No he wasn't. Per touch, Brown was better. Per carry, Brown was better. Per pass, Brown was better. Per catch, Brown was better. Brown was better at all those things in both Auburn and in the pros.

needless to say, LHUCKS, myself, Colin, Gump and Otis are on the same side of the debate.

Otis is not on your side. He loves the "Old Stone"

 

[Sabertooth]

He outproduced Brown last year. He was the anchor for a playoff team. No matter how you slice the splits, Cadillac was better in every statistical category except fumbling percentage and wide running.

No he wasn't. Per touch, Brown was better. Per carry, Brown was better. Per pass, Brown was better. Per catch, Brown was better. Brown was better at all those things in both Auburn and in the pros.

needless to say, LHUCKS, myself, Colin, Gump and Otis are on the same side of the debate.

Otis is not on your side. He loves the "Old Stone"

 

[Marc Levin]

P.S., ML - just re-read your "Post 87" - it had nothing to do with my points above regarding statistiucal contributions to their teams.