Why would anyone need an assault rifle? (1 Viewer)

[Redwes25]

And I keep making my argument that that is not what the point is.  Of course one person doesn't stand a chance vs the US military, but that has less to do with the weapon and more to do with the number of people involved.

A single person trying to fight the government is a criminal.  A small group of people are considered criminal extremists.  A slightly larger group would be a revolt or coup.  But once you get a large enough group, you have a revolution.  The 2nd amendment is for that group.  That group that needs to overthrow the government because it has become oppressive to enough people and needs to be overthrown.  It is the last line of the checks and balances they put in place and the very first one they wrote into law.  The more the 2nd amendment is limited, the more people it would take to have a successful revolution.  There is a continuously moving, gray line between allowing enough gun freedom to keep that revolution a possibility and making it unnecessary dangerous for the public in general.

I get your point, but stop saying the 2nd amendment is useless because I can't fight off the US army from my front porch.  That's not what it is about.

I believe the original intent of the 2nd amendment was drafted such that the states could have the militias and revolt if necessary to leave the compact.  Of course that issue could decided against the states about 80 years later.  

 

[parasaurolophus]

Cooking, anesthetic, get pests out of your garden, fix fried hair, as a defoliant, as a plant food... there are hundreds and hundreds of uses for alcohol, and at least dozens for commercially sold wine, beer, and spirits.

I know your point, but booze is actually really useful for a lot of things. 

This is like saying you could use your gun to hang pictures in drywall, as a door stop, to prop open your hood, to keep napkins from flying off the table outside, etc.Alcohol is good for cooking certain dishes because it makes them taste better. That is simply a preference which is really the same as a hobby. I don't think it has been used as a general for many many years. For pests, cleaning, and hair, IPA works better and is cheaper. 

Booze is for drinking. I am ok with that.  

 

[Jayrod]

I believe the original intent of the 2nd amendment was drafted such that the states could have the militias and revolt if necessary to leave the compact.  Of course that issue could decided against the states about 80 years later.  

That is a common opinion, but has been defeated in the courts thus far and I personally disagree with you.  I think many anti-gun advocates wish that were the case, but the legal rulings on the 2nd amendment does not deem it so.

And the issue at hand was executed by the South, they just weren't successful in their revolt.  But they did exercise their right to do as the 2nd amendment allowed.

Which brings us to Scalia's majority opinion on DC v Heller which indicates they believed that the right to bear arms was a pre-existing right of the individual and that the second amendment was an acknowledgment and support of that right rather than an establishment of it.

 

[Henry Ford]

This is like saying you could use your gun to hang pictures in drywall, as a door stop, to prop open your hood, to keep napkins from flying off the table outside, etc.Alcohol is good for cooking certain dishes because it makes them taste better. That is simply a preference which is really the same as a hobby. I don't think it has been used as a general for many many years. For pests, cleaning, and hair, IPA works better and is cheaper. 

Booze is for drinking. I am ok with that.  

It doesn't just make them taste better, it's an integral ingredient.  You can't make "vodka sauce" without vodka.  You can't make "beer batter" without beer.

That's like saying tomatoes are just a hobby.  Or pork.  Or ground beef.  Or bacon.  Are you saying bacon is just a hobby??

 

[KCitons]

This is like saying you could use your gun to hang pictures in drywall, as a door stop, to prop open your hood, to keep napkins from flying off the table outside, etc.Alcohol is good for cooking certain dishes because it makes them taste better. That is simply a preference which is really the same as a hobby. I don't think it has been used as a general for many many years. For pests, cleaning, and hair, IPA works better and is cheaper. 

Booze is for drinking. I am ok with that.  

There is no alcoholic drinks. Does assault rifles add to the pleasure of shooting? 

 

[Redwes25]

That is a common opinion, but has been defeated in the courts thus far and I personally disagree with you.  I think many anti-gun advocates wish that were the case, but the legal rulings on the 2nd amendment does not deem it so.

And the issue at hand was executed by the South, they just weren't successful in their revolt.  But they did exercise their right to do as the 2nd amendment allowed.

Which brings us to Scalia's majority opinion on DC v Heller which indicates they believed that the right to bear arms was a pre-existing right of the individual and that the second amendment was an acknowledgment and support of that right rather than an establishment of it.

Agree that Heller has put that issue to bed.  Though Scalia's talk is non-sense.  What is in the Constitution is what matters.  

 

[parasaurolophus]

It doesn't just make them taste better, it's an integral ingredient.  You can't make "vodka sauce" without vodka.  You can't make "beer batter" without beer.

That's like saying tomatoes are just a hobby.  Or pork.  Or ground beef.  Or bacon.  Are you saying bacon is just a hobby??

Whoa whoa whoa. Nobody is saying bacon is just a hobby. 

 

[Henry Ford]

Whoa whoa whoa. Nobody is saying bacon is just a hobby. 

It just makes it taste better, parasaurolophus, that's all it does - it's just a hobby.

I think we all see the flaw in this argument now.

 

[parasaurolophus]

There is no alcoholic drinks. Does assault rifles add to the pleasure of shooting? 

Seeing as there are ads all over vegas to go and shoot machine guns, I would say yes, lots of people find it adds to the pleasure. 

 

[Harry Manback]

And I keep making my argument that that is not what the point is.  Of course one person doesn't stand a chance vs the US military, but that has less to do with the weapon and more to do with the number of people involved.

A single person trying to fight the government is a criminal.  A small group of people are considered criminal extremists.  A slightly larger group would be a revolt or coup.  But once you get a large enough group, you have a revolution.  The 2nd amendment is for that group.  That group that needs to overthrow the government because it has become oppressive to enough people and needs to be overthrown.  It is the last line of the checks and balances they put in place and the very first one they wrote into law.  The more the 2nd amendment is limited, the more people it would take to have a successful revolution.  There is a continuously moving, gray line between allowing enough gun freedom to keep that revolution a possibility and making it unnecessary dangerous for the public in general.

I get your point, but stop saying the 2nd amendment is useless because I can't fight off the US army from my front porch.  That's not what it is about.

I never said it was useless. Just that it shouldn't be used to justify semi-automatic high powered rifles.

 

[msommer]

And a Montecristo No 2

It's Alcohol, TOBACCO, and Firearms

That's a good cigar.

Pity you guys in the US can't have good cigars

 

[msommer]

You just answered the OP's question. Americans enjoy things. Lots of stupid things. It's part of living in a free country. We don't need much, we enjoy lots of things. When the balance of loss overtakes the balance of enjoyment, change is made. After Sands Hook and Vegas, I would think the balance is shifting .

Enjoy<>need

HTH

 

[rascal]

So pretty much California. Coming next year, we'll have background checks for AMMO!!

How do our gun stats compare to everyone else?

As a gun owner, repeat offender of killing bambi, and monthly gun range user I have no problem with what California has done (there are some areas for improvement, but on the whole it appears to be ok).  And from the data I've seen it's had a marked improvement.

 

[KCitons]

Enjoy<>need

HTH

Define what it is we need? Do we need alcohol? The op asked why we need assault rifles. We don't. The reason for banning them is to save lives. Seems to me banning alcohol would save even more lives. Why is this a bad analogy?

A small percentage of assault rifles vs all guns are used to commit mass murders.

A small percentage of people that drink alcohol kill innocent people by driving. 

 

[Charlie Harper]

Yup. It's a pita compared to other places, but I'm also okay with it too. Our laws don't bother me though I am a little jealous of other states. A meaningless thought in the big picture. I suspect this new ammo law isn't the end of it.

I inherited a reloading set up years ago. If you're going through anything more expensive than 9mm, it's probably worthwhile to buy a basic Lee press and reload. California is not regulating that. I'm in Kern where conceal carry permits are easy to come by. If you're in a similar county, get one and you can bypass the new ammo background checks, because you've been thoroughly checked. 

Santa Clara County isn't so lenient. Would love to have a CCW though. 

How much do you think reloads cost you?  On laxammo.com I get 1000 9mm for about $180.

 

[IC FBGCav]

And I keep making my argument that that is not what the point is.  Of course one person doesn't stand a chance vs the US military, but that has less to do with the weapon and more to do with the number of people involved.

A single person trying to fight the government is a criminal.  A small group of people are considered criminal extremists.  A slightly larger group would be a revolt or coup.  But once you get a large enough group, you have a revolution.  The 2nd amendment is for that group.  That group that needs to overthrow the government because it has become oppressive to enough people and needs to be overthrown.  It is the last line of the checks and balances they put in place and the very first one they wrote into law.  The more the 2nd amendment is limited, the more people it would take to have a successful revolution.  There is a continuously moving, gray line between allowing enough gun freedom to keep that revolution a possibility and making it unnecessary dangerous for the public in general.

I get your point, but stop saying the 2nd amendment is useless because I can't fight off the US army from my front porch.  That's not what it is about.

How big of a group do you need to stop a B1-Bomber?   Revolution by violence in this country has changed quite a bit, small arms are not going to help.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Santa Clara County isn't so lenient. Would love to have a CCW though. 

How much do you think reloads cost you?  On laxammo.com I get 1000 9mm for about $180.

Well I just don't shoot much these days and my supplies are all from pre-shortage pricing. Primers are 20 years old and fine. Powder, brass, bullets all ten years old and fine. I reload 45acp for 9 cents a round, near 22lr pricing today. .338LM for a couple bucks a round (still a big savings). I have dies for .223, 7mm, 12g and 20g on a different press. I'm stacked pretty deep with that ammo and no idea what it cost. I'm buying quality 22lr for the brass and considering reloading it after reading a pretty cool article from a target shooter champion nerd. The savings aren't much but the quality of the ammo is quite a bit better. 

 

[fantasycurse42]

I'm still waiting for a photo to go viral of some gun toting maniac strapped with the most menacing assault rifle possible, wrapped in 1,200 rounds of ammo, standing on the strip or in some other prominent location in a state with stupid and lax assault rifle laws. 

I know that image is coming at some point, well because, IT'S HIS RIGHT!!!

 

[Man In The Box]

Define what it is we need? Do we need alcohol? The op asked why we need assault rifles. We don't. The reason for banning them is to save lives. Seems to me banning alcohol would save even more lives. Why is this a bad analogy?

A small percentage of assault rifles vs all guns are used to commit mass murders.

A small percentage of people that drink alcohol kill innocent people by driving. 

Please stop. 

 

[EYLive]

Define what it is we need? Do we need alcohol? The op asked why we need assault rifles. We don't. The reason for banning them is to save lives. Seems to me banning alcohol would save even more lives. Why is this a bad analogy?

A small percentage of assault rifles vs all guns are used to commit mass murders.

A small percentage of people that drink alcohol kill innocent people by driving.

OK, we get it. You don't care that dozens of innocent people have died within a few moments to gunfire. Just come out and say it so we can just ignore you.
It's so scummy to defend weapons of mass murder, I don't know how you live with yourself.

 

[KCitons]

OK, we get it. You don't care that dozens of innocent people have died within a few moments to gunfire. Just come out and say it so we can just ignore you.
It's so scummy to defend weapons of mass murder, I don't know how you live with yourself.

Have you added anything to this thread other than attacking me personally?

I care that people have died. Do you know how many innocent people died yesterday from drunk drivers? If you look through my postings, you'll see that I created one questioning the validity of our drunk driving laws. That was over a year ago. So don't try to identify me as something I'm not.

 

[KCitons]

Please stop. 

If I was caught with an illegal weapon today, would I be able to purchase another weapon, any weapon, through legal means? No.

If I was caught driving drunk today, I would be able to continue to buy alcohol through the same means I did yesterday.

It seems to me that a lot of people have a certain number of innocent people that have to die before they are concerned. Evidently, it's not about overall results, it's about one incident.

That or the fact that they don't want to give up something they enjoy and would rather target something that had no effect on them.

Please put me on ignore if you don't like what I'm posting. 

 

[Henry Ford]

If I was caught with an illegal weapon today, would I be able to purchase another weapon, any weapon, through legal means? No.

If I was caught driving drunk today, I would be able to continue to buy alcohol through the same means I did yesterday.

It seems to me that a lot of people have a certain number of innocent people that have to die before they are concerned. Evidently, it's not about overall results, it's about one incident.

That or the fact that they don't want to give up something they enjoy and would rather target something that had no effect on them.

Please put me on ignore if you don't like what I'm posting. 

On the plus side, it's nice to know you're not a drunk driver.  If you were, you'd be aware that the bolded isn't necessarily true.

Some states, when they issue a "DUI" license to someone will include on the license that the person is not allowed to purchase alcohol.  In many others, the judge orders the person not to buy or consume alcohol, and if caught it leads to jail/prison time.

 

[Harry Manback]

Have you added anything to this thread other than attacking me personally?

I care that people have died. Do you know how many innocent people died yesterday from drunk drivers? If you look through my postings, you'll see that I created one questioning the validity of our drunk driving laws. That was over a year ago. So don't try to identify me as something I'm not.

This is blatant Whataboutism. 

Forget about intent. Forget about the fact there is no equivalent of alcohol to an AR-15 or similar high powered rifle. It has nothing to do with it.  You think we shouldn't do anything about guns because...what? Because drunk drivers kill people? Are you arguing a slippery slope?

In 2015, there were 372 mass shootings and 33,636 deaths due to firearms in the U.S.

In 2015, 10,265 people died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes. The rate of alcohol-impaired driving fatalities per 100,000 population was 3.2, representing a 65% decrease since 1982, when record keeping began, and a 49% decrease since the inception of The Foundation for Advancing Alcohol Responsibility in 1991.

Alcohol-impaired driving fatalities accounted for 29% of the total vehicle traffic fatalities in 2015. Between 1991 and 2015, the rate of drunk driving fatalities per 100,000 population has decreased 49% nationally, and 68% among those under 21. 

Whereas mass shooting and active shooting events have gone up over the same time period, and other gun homicides have gone down.There have been more total mass shooting incidents and deaths in the 11 years starting with 2005 than there were in the previous 23 years combined.

This tells us the trend for mass shootings is trending up, while overall gun violence is down. The trend for alcohol related fatalities is trending downward.

Which do you think requires more action?

 

[KCitons]

On the plus side, it's nice to know you're not a drunk driver.  If you were, you'd be aware that the bolded isn't necessarily true.

Some states, when they issue a "DUI" license to someone will include on the license that the person is not allowed to purchase alcohol.  In many others, the judge orders the person not to buy or consume alcohol, and if caught it leads to jail/prison time.

The same way some states have different laws regarding firearms. How is it that we have so many 2nd, 3rd, and 4th offense DUI convictions?

People are looking for a Federal ban on certain weapons.

 

[Harry Manback]

If I was caught with an illegal weapon today, would I be able to purchase another weapon, any weapon, through legal means? No.

If I was caught driving drunk today, I would be able to continue to buy alcohol through the same means I did yesterday.

It seems to me that a lot of people have a certain number of innocent people that have to die before they are concerned. Evidently, it's not about overall results, it's about one incident.

That or the fact that they don't want to give up something they enjoy and would rather target something that had no effect on them.

Please put me on ignore if you don't like what I'm posting. 

It's not that we don't like it, it's that you're ill-informed.

 

[Harry Manback]

Your argument would be more apt, if you were arguing for grain alcohol and 151 to be illegal. Because no one here is advocating all guns be made illegal. Which, if there was an alarming trend of motorists chugging grain alcohol and plowing into crowds of people, you may see get some traction.

 

[KCitons]

Which do you think requires more action?

Obviously the one that saves the most lives. Was that deaths by assault rifles or deaths by DUI drivers?

 

[Redwes25]

Obviously the one that saves the most lives. Was that deaths by assault rifles or deaths by DUI drivers?

Like how you deleted the rest of his post.  Way to be honest about it and ignore everything else about how deaths caused by firearms is greater than drunk driving.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Your argument would be more apt, if you were arguing for grain alcohol and 151 to be illegal. Because no one here is advocating all guns be made illegal. Which, if there was an alarming trend of motorists chugging grain alcohol and plowing into crowds of people, you may see get some traction.

Can we make an exception for level 290 exotic rifles though?

 

[Harry Manback]

Obviously the one that saves the most lives. Was that deaths by assault rifles or deaths by DUI drivers?

And we can only do one, right? 

 

[Man In The Box]

If I was caught with an illegal weapon today, would I be able to purchase another weapon, any weapon, through legal means? No.

If I was caught driving drunk today, I would be able to continue to buy alcohol through the same means I did yesterday.

It seems to me that a lot of people have a certain number of innocent people that have to die before they are concerned. Evidently, it's not about overall results, it's about one incident.

That or the fact that they don't want to give up something they enjoy and would rather target something that had no effect on them.

Please put me on ignore if you don't like what I'm posting. 

 You’ve shown to be massively uninformed on the subject. If you want to start a thread about banning beer, have at it. See how many people care. It’s not relevant to this discussion though. 

 

[KCitons]

Like how you deleted the rest of his post.  Way to be honest about it and ignore everything else about how deaths caused by firearms is greater than drunk driving.

He compared apples to oranges. All firearms and only assault rifles are two different things. I could compare all alcohol related deaths (stabbings, beatings, etc) but I'm only talking about DUI related deaths.

 

[KCitons]

Like how you deleted the rest of his post.  Way to be honest about it and ignore everything else about how deaths caused by firearms is greater than drunk driving.

He compared apples to oranges. All firearms and only assault rifles are two different things. I could compare all alcohol related deaths (stabbings, beatings, etc) but I'm only talking about DUI related deaths.

 

[Harry Manback]

Obviously the one that saves the most lives. Was that deaths by assault rifles or deaths by DUI drivers?

Are you excluding the drivers who drove drunk and only killed themselves? If so those numbers are 3841.

If you only care about bodies, why not forget about guns and alcohol, and focus on malaria, which kills more than both combined? 

You obviously don't care about intent, so why not include other car accidents not related to alcohol? Bees kill people. If we can't stop bees why bother with anything?

 

[KCitons]

 You’ve shown to be massively uninformed on the subject. If you want to start a thread about banning beer, have at it. See how many people care. It’s not relevant to this discussion though. 

What is the title of the thread? I've been accused of being insensitive to the Vegas shooting. But I've kept my posts comparing beer in this thread. 

 

[Man In The Box]

 I’m arguing with someone who can’t read the thread title. Nevermind. Have a good day. 

 

[Redwes25]

He compared apples to oranges. All firearms and only assault rifles are two different things. I could compare all alcohol related deaths (stabbings, beatings, etc) but I'm only talking about DUI related deaths.

comparing DUI deaths and assault rifles deaths are apple to apples.  Got it

 

[KCitons]

More importantly, why do you guys care what I think? I'm neither a member if the NRA, or an owner if an assault rifle. I can't change the laws it keep the laws all by myself. If I'm in the minority, I'm no threat to the issue. 

 

[Redwes25]

More importantly, why do you guys care what I think? I'm neither a member if the NRA, or an owner if an assault rifle. I can't change the laws it keep the laws all by myself. If I'm in the minority, I'm no threat to the issue. 

Because you keep posting this inane comparison of DUI deaths and assault rifle deaths.  

 

[Harry Manback]

Can we make an exception for level 290 exotic rifles though?

Only scout rifles. Though I did recently snag a pretty sweet exotic assault rifle.

 

[KCitons]

Because you keep posting this inane comparison of DUI deaths and assault rifle deaths.  

Nice to know your worried about my mental health. 

If I just said I don't think banning assault rifles is the most important thing we can do to save the most lives. Or that a ban on assault rifles won't stop these attacks. Or that the fact that the Vegas shooter had money and could have purchased automatic weapons outside legal means.Would that be ok?

For the record, I've done it without attacking people personally. If We are questioning mental stability, I'd look at those that feel compelled to attack a stranger on a message board. Can't imagine what they'd do to someone face to face.

 

[Harry Manback]

Nice to know your worried about my mental health. 

If I just said I don't think banning assault rifles is the most important thing we can do to save the most lives. Or that a ban on assault rifles won't stop these attacks. Or that the fact that the Vegas shooter had money and could have purchased automatic weapons outside legal means.Would that be ok?

For the record, I've done it without attacking people personally. If We are questioning mental stability, I'd look at those that feel compelled to attack a stranger on a message board. Can't imagine what they'd do to someone face to face.

He said inane, not insane. HTH.

 

[Harry Manback]

Nice to know your worried about my mental health. 

If I just said I don't think banning assault rifles is the most important thing we can do to save the most lives. Or that a ban on assault rifles won't stop these attacks. Or that the fact that the Vegas shooter had money and could have purchased automatic weapons outside legal means.Would that be ok?

For the record, I've done it without attacking people personally. If We are questioning mental stability, I'd look at those that feel compelled to attack a stranger on a message board. Can't imagine what they'd do to someone face to face.

Ironically the last sentence reads like an attack on a posters mental health.

 

[Redwes25]

Nice to know your worried about my mental health. 

If I just said I don't think banning assault rifles is the most important thing we can do to save the most lives. Or that a ban on assault rifles won't stop these attacks. Or that the fact that the Vegas shooter had money and could have purchased automatic weapons outside legal means.Would that be ok?

For the record, I've done it without attacking people personally. If We are questioning mental stability, I'd look at those that feel compelled to attack a stranger on a message board. Can't imagine what they'd do to someone face to face.

inane (not insane) - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/inane?s=t

ETA - I think your constant posts about drunk driving make absolutely no sense.  Sorry, if you think there is some reasoning behind them and if you feel like they are personal attacks.

 

[Redwes25]

Ok, maybe we can get back to the title of this thread.  Are there any good reasons to own an assault rifle.  I have been in this thread since the beginning and this is what we have gotten.

1) They are fun to shot

2) They are good protection for the collapse of civilization.  

 

[KCitons]

Ok, maybe we can get back to the title of this thread.  Are there any good reasons to own an assault rifle.  I have been in this thread since the beginning and this is what we have gotten.

1) They are fun to shot

2) They are good protection for the collapse of civilization.  

There are no good reasons. Ban them.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Only scout rifles. Though I did recently snag a pretty sweet exotic assault rifle.

I heard Zavala is trying to shut down Xur for selling unregistered firearms under the gun show loophole.  Gonna work its way through the courts until Ikora rules on it.

(I'll see myself out now)

 

[EYLive]

Have you added anything to this thread other than attacking me personally?

I care that people have died. Do you know how many innocent people died yesterday from drunk drivers? If you look through my postings, you'll see that I created one questioning the validity of our drunk driving laws. That was over a year ago. So don't try to identify me as something I'm not.

Does your family and friends know your feelings about weapons of mass murder? If so, are they ashamed and embarrassed of you? Maybe you're only expressing your position via the anonymity of a message board. 

 

[EYLive]

inane (not insane) - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/inane?s=t

ETA - I think your constant posts about drunk driving make absolutely no sense.  Sorry, if you think there is some reasoning behind them and if you feel like they are personal attacks.

No reasonably intelligent adult compares a premeditated mass murder to drunk driving. It really is crazy in a very sad way. 
Vegas, Sandy Hook, Columbine... apparently assault rifles are more important than all those people that died.