What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Why you hate Arian Foster. (1 Viewer)

'rizzler said:
In his 7 healthy games, in which he played all 4 quarters he is now averaging the following:164 total yds and 1+TD a game. ("projection" over a full season equates to 2600yds and 17-18tds)This, while being spelled in parts/most of the 4th quarter of blowouts, dampening his numbers.The Houston O-Line is elite.. No doubt. But for those who doubted Foster's ability, called him "overrated" or "a product of the system", has his ability to embarrass Polamalu, Talib and the countless other safeties, LBs, and Corners in the receiving game (for another year) changed your mind?If not, why the hate?
What kind of numbers is Tate putting up when given a chance? Similar to Foster, which suggests the system certainly has something to do with it. As for making Talib look like a fool...everyone has done that this year. He sucks.
What do you mean when you say "given a chance"? If you mean in the game for all situations as the main ball carrier...As the main ball carrier in 2.75 games, Tate put up 124 yards per game. (All of them with Andre Johnson playing). Foster in his 7.25 games as the main ball carrier is putting up 163 yards per game. Actually more as he isn't playing much in the 4th quarter, but I won't split hairs there. Andre Johnson has been out for most all of those games.Or if you mean how has he done since becoming the backup, Tate's ypc jumped from 4.56 to 6.9 ypc when he went from feature back to backup and change of pace back. Do I think he's a 6.9 ypc RB because of this? No. Last year Foster had a 4.9 ypc, but his backup Derrick Ward had a 6.3 ypc on a similar number of carries as Tate has as a backup. Ward wasn't a 6.3 ypc back either, nor as good as Foster.
 
'rizzler said:
In his 7 healthy games, in which he played all 4 quarters he is now averaging the following:164 total yds and 1+TD a game. ("projection" over a full season equates to 2600yds and 17-18tds)This, while being spelled in parts/most of the 4th quarter of blowouts, dampening his numbers.The Houston O-Line is elite.. No doubt. But for those who doubted Foster's ability, called him "overrated" or "a product of the system", has his ability to embarrass Polamalu, Talib and the countless other safeties, LBs, and Corners in the receiving game (for another year) changed your mind?If not, why the hate?
What kind of numbers is Tate putting up when given a chance? Similar to Foster, which suggests the system certainly has something to do with it. As for making Talib look like a fool...everyone has done that this year. He sucks.
What do you mean when you say "given a chance"? If you mean in the game for all situations as the main ball carrier...As the main ball carrier in 2.75 games, Tate put up 124 yards per game. (All of them with Andre Johnson playing). Foster in his 7.25 games as the main ball carrier is putting up 163 yards per game. Actually more as he isn't playing much in the 4th quarter, but I won't split hairs there. Andre Johnson has been out for most all of those games.Or if you mean how has he done since becoming the backup, Tate's ypc jumped from 4.56 to 6.9 ypc when he went from feature back to backup and change of pace back. Do I think he's a 6.9 ypc RB because of this? No. Last year Foster had a 4.9 ypc, but his backup Derrick Ward had a 6.3 ypc on a similar number of carries as Tate has as a backup. Ward wasn't a 6.3 ypc back either, nor as good as Foster.
4.56 is better than 4.3 though
 
He's in the perfect system and is utilized PERFECTLY to get the maximum output of his talent (imagine had Ben Tate not been the picture ... YIKES!!!)

It's too bad Cam Cameron doesn't utilize Ray Rice like this (e.g. yesterday and Jacksonville game). You have your horse, FEED HIM!!! But I digress... (If you're wondering, yes, I'm a Rice owner)

It'll be interesting to see how much the insertion of Leinart affects Foster from here on out. Defenses may stack the box and force Leinart to beat them with his arm (Advantage Owen Daniels?). Or we could see what John Beck did with Roy Helu last week and have Arian with a plethora of "dink and dunk" catches, thus making him absolutely GOLDEN in PPR formats (Can "gold" get "golder"? This is a case where it does! haha)

 
He's in the perfect system and is utilized PERFECTLY to get the maximum output of his talent (imagine had Ben Tate not been the picture ... YIKES!!!)It's too bad Cam Cameron doesn't utilize Ray Rice like this (e.g. yesterday and Jacksonville game). You have your horse, FEED HIM!!! But I digress... (If you're wondering, yes, I'm a Rice owner)It'll be interesting to see how much the insertion of Leinart affects Foster from here on out. Defenses may stack the box and force Leinart to beat them with his arm (Advantage Owen Daniels?). Or we could see what John Beck did with Roy Helu last week and have Arian with a plethora of "dink and dunk" catches, thus making him absolutely GOLDEN in PPR formats (Can "gold" get "golder"? This is a case where it does! haha)
I thought Oakland made the best blueprint for playing the Texans without Andre Johnson, as they stacked the box sometimes to a ridiculous level and blitzed like mad. There were plays with one safety on the line and the other playing like a linebacker, and there was at least one safety in the box on more plays than not. And it worked to a degree... Foster had his worst ypc game with 3.1 ypc. But he also went off for over 100 yards receiving and had 184 total yards from scrimmage. So maybe teams decided if they did stack the box, they'd get beat with Foster's receiving ability.So now that said... if teams try that they will not only have to deal with Foster out of the backfield, but Andre Johnson who wasn't there for the Oakland game. I agree if I were an opponent I'd probably try to make Leinart beat me. But it's going to be tough to do when the Texans have that receiving dimension out of the backfield plus Andre able to stretch the field if you don't give your corner some safety help.
 
Foster is a top 5 back in terms of talent, and top 2 in terms of fantasy production.

The way Foster runs is just a thing of beauty. He glides, he is so smooth it's a joy to watch. He is great human being as well, well read and thoughtful in his tweets/interviews. Absolutely love the guy.

 
Schaub being hurt won't help this guy.
Please elaborate? The last 3 games, Foster's been pulled because of big leads. That probably won't happen now. Leinart will rely on Foster to bail him out, and besides the Texans QB job is to manage games, and hit a few play action passes.
 
He's in the perfect system and is utilized PERFECTLY to get the maximum output of his talent (imagine had Ben Tate not been the picture ... YIKES!!!)

It's too bad Cam Cameron doesn't utilize Ray Rice like this (e.g. yesterday and Jacksonville game). You have your horse, FEED HIM!!! But I digress... (If you're wondering, yes, I'm a Rice owner)

It'll be interesting to see how much the insertion of Leinart affects Foster from here on out. Defenses may stack the box and force Leinart to beat them with his arm (Advantage Owen Daniels?). Or we could see what John Beck did with Roy Helu last week and have Arian with a plethora of "dink and dunk" catches, thus making him absolutely GOLDEN in PPR formats (Can "gold" get "golder"? This is a case where it does! haha)
Defenses already were doing this. The loss of Shaub may take Foster for arguable top FF best to Marshall Faulk, circa 2000. If "Captain Checkdown" has not changed his game, you may see statlines of only 60-70 yards rushing and a TD, but you will also see catching stats of 7-12 catches every game and we know he can run after the catch. Also, with the games not being decided early and still hanging in the balance, you would figure the Texans won't be rotating 3 RBs at will, just whenever. Foster will be used more as the cowbell and we might even see he and Tate in together (another opportunity to come out on a screen, etc). If Leinart was just so bad that he collapsed the team completely, then yeah, I would be concerned but this is a team sniffing the playoffs for the first time ever, has a golden chance to win the division with the Colts down, and has the #1 defense in football. So, I think they will play close games and run the ball ad naseum and use the short passing game.

 
Schaub being hurt won't help this guy.
Please elaborate? The last 3 games, Foster's been pulled because of big leads. That probably won't happen now. Leinart will rely on Foster to bail him out, and besides the Texans QB job is to manage games, and hit a few play action passes.
Its quite simple. I think leinart is a huge step down from schaub. This means less successful drives and not as many red zone chances. You may see more yards from foster, but tds will def go down. If they ride foster more like you say his injury chances also rise as he has already had issues this year. Im not saying bench the guy. I am just saying you may want to lower expectations.
 
Schaub being hurt won't help this guy.
Please elaborate? The last 3 games, Foster's been pulled because of big leads. That probably won't happen now. Leinart will rely on Foster to bail him out, and besides the Texans QB job is to manage games, and hit a few play action passes.
Its quite simple. I think leinart is a huge step down from schaub. This means less successful drives and not as many red zone chances. You may see more yards from foster, but tds will def go down. If they ride foster more like you say his injury chances also rise as he has already had issues this year. Im not saying bench the guy. I am just saying you may want to lower expectations.
It's hard to argue with this balanced view. One way to express this view would be to look at the over/under for the Texans next week vs the games since Foster came back.

The over/unders have been:

45,

42.5,

41 (vs next week's opponent; JAX),

44,

43.5,

48,

46.5,

52,

47

and 44.

Will next week break 40?

I doubt it without Schaub. As a matter of fact, I'd say the over/under is going to be 35. That's a full TD taken out of the game vs the previous game against JAX.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
INSANE STAT TIME

Over the past 4 weeks, these are the mindnumbing stats:

Aaron Rodgers: 31.23 avg/pts

Arian Foster: 27.85 avg/pts

For comparison sake: the #2 RB

LeSean McCoy: 21.67 avg/pts

:football:

That boy gon' get paiiiiiiiiid

 
Schaub being hurt won't help this guy.
Please elaborate? The last 3 games, Foster's been pulled because of big leads. That probably won't happen now. Leinart will rely on Foster to bail him out, and besides the Texans QB job is to manage games, and hit a few play action passes.
Its quite simple. I think leinart is a huge step down from schaub. This means less successful drives and not as many red zone chances. You may see more yards from foster, but tds will def go down. If they ride foster more like you say his injury chances also rise as he has already had issues this year. Im not saying bench the guy. I am just saying you may want to lower expectations.
It's hard to argue with this balanced view. One way to express this view would be to look at the over/under for the Texans next week vs the games since Foster came back.

The over/unders have been:

45,

42.5,

41 (vs next week's opponent; JAX),

44,

43.5,

48,

46.5,

52,

47

and 44.

Will next week break 40?

I doubt it without Schaub. As a matter of fact, I'd say the over/under is going to be 35. That's a full TD taken out of the game vs the previous game against JAX.
The over/under for the HOU/JAX game is out: it's 37.5. Not quite a full TD taken out vs the last game against JAX. Should it affect anyone starting Foster or not? Of course not, let's not be silly. I think Foster owners should be optimistic about this injury to Schaub. A loss or two in the next couple game may ensure that Foster gets serious carries in 16 and 17.

 
As far as talent goes, his running style reminds me of Emmitt Smith.

Doesn't mean he'll have the shelf life Emmitt had. He just has great balance and vision.

 
Now we are starting to see what happens when Foster gets the MJD and Steven Jackson Treatment. A bit of tough sledding when you got the entire defense planning for you ehh?

 
Now we are starting to see what happens when Foster gets the MJD and Steven Jackson Treatment. A bit of tough sledding when you got the entire defense planning for you ehh?
Because defenses had been concerned about the Schaub-Jacoby Jones connection previously?Stop being a clown. Add up those receiving yards yet? You know how these boards work. You got challenged, so just come up with some ridiculous point as to why they don't matter. Defend it like crazy even when you and the entire board know you're wrong. But refusing to acknowledge it just makes you a woman, sorry.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Now we are starting to see what happens when Foster gets the MJD and Steven Jackson Treatment. A bit of tough sledding when you got the entire defense planning for you ehh?
Because defenses had been concerned about the Schaub-Jacoby Jones connection previously?Stop being a clown. Add up those receiving yards yet? You know how these boards work. You got challenged, so just come up with some ridiculous point as to why they don't matter. Defend it like crazy even when you and the entire board know you're wrong. But refusing to acknowledge it just makes you a woman, sorry.
What makes Foster better than MJD, Forte and Sjax? Its pretty clear Foster's situation is changing for the worst, lets see how he does in the coming weeks I suppose. I'm pretty sure I was the one doing the challenging also. People coming out and proclaiming that Foster is elite I would say is the majority. Maybe I'm way off in my thinking, but there is really only one elite back right now, ADP and maybe Chris Johnson if he starts trying again. I just dont see how everyone would group Foster in with those two rather than Forte, Sjax and MJD. I guess maybe we should all figure out how we define elite before we start telling each other that we are acting like women. :mellow: . I define Elite as guys like Marshall Faulk, Ladainian Tomlinson, Adrian Peterson and potentially Trent Richardson (I can't wait.........) . Theres a difference between being a top 5 or 10 RB and being an elite one. I would say Foster is a borderline top 5 RB in the league right now , I would put him in the group with the guys I mentioned above.Would anyone honestly take Foster over Ray Rice or Lesean Mccoy right now(from a talent standpoint)? If so, explain what he does better than them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Now we are starting to see what happens when Foster gets the MJD and Steven Jackson Treatment. A bit of tough sledding when you got the entire defense planning for you ehh?
Because defenses had been concerned about the Schaub-Jacoby Jones connection previously?Stop being a clown. Add up those receiving yards yet? You know how these boards work. You got challenged, so just come up with some ridiculous point as to why they don't matter. Defend it like crazy even when you and the entire board know you're wrong. But refusing to acknowledge it just makes you a woman, sorry.
:goodposting: :thumbup: Awesome post!!
 
I think its a little foolish to not be a little concerned about this whole TJ Yates thing.

I cant imagine the panic that will follow after this weeks game versus a tough ATL defense.

 
Most of the long term criticism leveled at Foster has been about his situation and how it was so perfect and there was nobody there to challenge his job. Some of that eroded when he fought off a challenge to his workload from Ben Tate to start the season. This stretch to end the season with T.J. Yates or whatever journeyman QB they decide to start will either erode most of the rest of the argument or else provide extra fodder for critics if he struggles.

If Foster does succeed, the last shred of defense left for the anti Foster folks will be the offensive line dominance. While I agree that it is good, most any running back to ever play the game has required at least SOME help in order to produce elite stats. Foster isn't an all time type player (like an Adrian Peterson), so naturally he will need some help in order to produce at top levels. This is true of any running back that isn't projecting to go down as one of the greatest to ever play the game. 2 years ago, Forte looked like a bum because the offense sucked and the offensive line was a train wreck. Just last year, Ray Rice looked somewhat pedestrian because his offensive line was struggling mightily. Heck, even this year Chris Johnson has been awful in part due to terrible offensive line play (and in part because he doesn't look like he cares, but that's another story). It happens all the time to great players- situations change. The key is that these players suffer a decline in stats as the situation erodes, but still perform well above average to keep them afloat until the situation improves and they can once again flourish. For instance, while Ray Rice's numbers regressed last season due to poor offensive line play and questionable play calling, he still ended the season with 1,776 total yards and 6 touchdowns. Not exactly top of the line production, but far from anything to sneeze at.

If anyone is going to pin their argument to the fact that a player can't succeed without supporting talent around him in some capacity, then that isn't an argument at all because that is true for all but a very, very, very small handful of players playing the game, regardless of what decade we are talking about. Foster needing EITHER a good quarterback or a good offensive line to produce like one of the very best running backs in the game isn't an indictment on Foster, but rather a comment on the way the NFL is now with all the team speed on defense forcing offenses to need more than just 1 weapon to take pressure off players.

On the flip side, if Foster begins to average 50-80 total yards with little to no scoring production to close out the season with Yates or whoever at quarterback, I think it will lend some merit to the argument that Foster was nothing more than a product of the system. I don't find it likely, but at least we will have some sort of answer to finally close this 2 year debate out either way.

Lastly, if you are going to base an argument for struggling on someone who "only" had 89 total yards and a touchdown...well then I would say you don't have an argument at all and are simply grasping at straws. You may have wanted to wait for a game in which he didn't manage to put up respectable numbers despite having an unproven, low round rookie unexpectedly getting thrust into the QB spot for the 2nd half (a player that likely had little to no involvement in the game plan or even expected to go into the game until having to do so).

 
I think its a little foolish to not be a little concerned about this whole TJ Yates thing.I cant imagine the panic that will follow after this weeks game versus a tough ATL defense.
I agree that this could be a rough week for Foster. In one league in which I have Victor Cruz on my bench, I am considering reshuffling my lineup deck a little bit to bench Foster and play Cruz at flex. While that will be tough to actually pull the trigger on (and I likely will chicken out by the time Sunday rolls around), I am not expecting any kind of world beating performance.
 
Most of the long term criticism leveled at Foster has been about his situation and how it was so perfect and there was nobody there to challenge his job. Some of that eroded when he fought off a challenge to his workload from Ben Tate to start the season. This stretch to end the season with T.J. Yates or whatever journeyman QB they decide to start will either erode most of the rest of the argument or else provide extra fodder for critics if he struggles.If Foster does succeed, the last shred of defense left for the anti Foster folks will be the offensive line dominance. While I agree that it is good, most any running back to ever play the game has required at least SOME help in order to produce elite stats. Foster isn't an all time type player (like an Adrian Peterson), so naturally he will need some help in order to produce at top levels. This is true of any running back that isn't projecting to go down as one of the greatest to ever play the game. 2 years ago, Forte looked like a bum because the offense sucked and the offensive line was a train wreck. Just last year, Ray Rice looked somewhat pedestrian because his offensive line was struggling mightily. Heck, even this year Chris Johnson has been awful in part due to terrible offensive line play (and in part because he doesn't look like he cares, but that's another story). It happens all the time to great players- situations change. The key is that these players suffer a decline in stats as the situation erodes, but still perform well above average to keep them afloat until the situation improves and they can once again flourish. For instance, while Ray Rice's numbers regressed last season due to poor offensive line play and questionable play calling, he still ended the season with 1,776 total yards and 6 touchdowns. Not exactly top of the line production, but far from anything to sneeze at. If anyone is going to pin their argument to the fact that a player can't succeed without supporting talent around him in some capacity, then that isn't an argument at all because that is true for all but a very, very, very small handful of players playing the game, regardless of what decade we are talking about. Foster needing EITHER a good quarterback or a good offensive line to produce like one of the very best running backs in the game isn't an indictment on Foster, but rather a comment on the way the NFL is now with all the team speed on defense forcing offenses to need more than just 1 weapon to take pressure off players.On the flip side, if Foster begins to average 50-80 total yards with little to no scoring production to close out the season with Yates or whoever at quarterback, I think it will lend some merit to the argument that Foster was nothing more than a product of the system. I don't find it likely, but at least we will have some sort of answer to finally close this 2 year debate out either way. Lastly, if you are going to base an argument for struggling on someone who "only" had 89 total yards and a touchdown...well then I would say you don't have an argument at all and are simply grasping at straws. You may have wanted to wait for a game in which he didn't manage to put up respectable numbers despite having an unproven, low round rookie unexpectedly getting thrust into the QB spot for the 2nd half (a player that likely had little to no involvement in the game plan or even expected to go into the game until having to do so).
I agree with everything here other than the 89 total yards and a td thing. 22 carries for 65 yards = 3 ypc. Ben Tate is catching up, less than 100 yards behind on 60 les carries! lol OK I'm done with the Ben Tate stuff, I just Think its hilarious . :thumbup:
 
Most of the long term criticism leveled at Foster has been about his situation and how it was so perfect and there was nobody there to challenge his job. Some of that eroded when he fought off a challenge to his workload from Ben Tate to start the season. This stretch to end the season with T.J. Yates or whatever journeyman QB they decide to start will either erode most of the rest of the argument or else provide extra fodder for critics if he struggles.If Foster does succeed, the last shred of defense left for the anti Foster folks will be the offensive line dominance. While I agree that it is good, most any running back to ever play the game has required at least SOME help in order to produce elite stats. Foster isn't an all time type player (like an Adrian Peterson), so naturally he will need some help in order to produce at top levels. This is true of any running back that isn't projecting to go down as one of the greatest to ever play the game. 2 years ago, Forte looked like a bum because the offense sucked and the offensive line was a train wreck. Just last year, Ray Rice looked somewhat pedestrian because his offensive line was struggling mightily. Heck, even this year Chris Johnson has been awful in part due to terrible offensive line play (and in part because he doesn't look like he cares, but that's another story). It happens all the time to great players- situations change. The key is that these players suffer a decline in stats as the situation erodes, but still perform well above average to keep them afloat until the situation improves and they can once again flourish. For instance, while Ray Rice's numbers regressed last season due to poor offensive line play and questionable play calling, he still ended the season with 1,776 total yards and 6 touchdowns. Not exactly top of the line production, but far from anything to sneeze at. If anyone is going to pin their argument to the fact that a player can't succeed without supporting talent around him in some capacity, then that isn't an argument at all because that is true for all but a very, very, very small handful of players playing the game, regardless of what decade we are talking about. Foster needing EITHER a good quarterback or a good offensive line to produce like one of the very best running backs in the game isn't an indictment on Foster, but rather a comment on the way the NFL is now with all the team speed on defense forcing offenses to need more than just 1 weapon to take pressure off players.On the flip side, if Foster begins to average 50-80 total yards with little to no scoring production to close out the season with Yates or whoever at quarterback, I think it will lend some merit to the argument that Foster was nothing more than a product of the system. I don't find it likely, but at least we will have some sort of answer to finally close this 2 year debate out either way. Lastly, if you are going to base an argument for struggling on someone who "only" had 89 total yards and a touchdown...well then I would say you don't have an argument at all and are simply grasping at straws. You may have wanted to wait for a game in which he didn't manage to put up respectable numbers despite having an unproven, low round rookie unexpectedly getting thrust into the QB spot for the 2nd half (a player that likely had little to no involvement in the game plan or even expected to go into the game until having to do so).
I agree with everything here other than the 89 total yards and a td thing. 22 carries for 65 yards = 3 ypc. Ben Tate is catching up, less than 100 yards behind on 60 les carries! lol OK I'm done with the Ben Tate stuff, I just Think its hilarious . :thumbup:
SHOCKING that you would disagree with that point because he added receiving yards, and then you once again only cite the disparity in rushing yards. Are you a 12 year old?
 
'RUSF18 said:
'wiscstlatlmia said:
'Herm23 said:
Most of the long term criticism leveled at Foster has been about his situation and how it was so perfect and there was nobody there to challenge his job. Some of that eroded when he fought off a challenge to his workload from Ben Tate to start the season. This stretch to end the season with T.J. Yates or whatever journeyman QB they decide to start will either erode most of the rest of the argument or else provide extra fodder for critics if he struggles.If Foster does succeed, the last shred of defense left for the anti Foster folks will be the offensive line dominance. While I agree that it is good, most any running back to ever play the game has required at least SOME help in order to produce elite stats. Foster isn't an all time type player (like an Adrian Peterson), so naturally he will need some help in order to produce at top levels. This is true of any running back that isn't projecting to go down as one of the greatest to ever play the game. 2 years ago, Forte looked like a bum because the offense sucked and the offensive line was a train wreck. Just last year, Ray Rice looked somewhat pedestrian because his offensive line was struggling mightily. Heck, even this year Chris Johnson has been awful in part due to terrible offensive line play (and in part because he doesn't look like he cares, but that's another story). It happens all the time to great players- situations change. The key is that these players suffer a decline in stats as the situation erodes, but still perform well above average to keep them afloat until the situation improves and they can once again flourish. For instance, while Ray Rice's numbers regressed last season due to poor offensive line play and questionable play calling, he still ended the season with 1,776 total yards and 6 touchdowns. Not exactly top of the line production, but far from anything to sneeze at. If anyone is going to pin their argument to the fact that a player can't succeed without supporting talent around him in some capacity, then that isn't an argument at all because that is true for all but a very, very, very small handful of players playing the game, regardless of what decade we are talking about. Foster needing EITHER a good quarterback or a good offensive line to produce like one of the very best running backs in the game isn't an indictment on Foster, but rather a comment on the way the NFL is now with all the team speed on defense forcing offenses to need more than just 1 weapon to take pressure off players.On the flip side, if Foster begins to average 50-80 total yards with little to no scoring production to close out the season with Yates or whoever at quarterback, I think it will lend some merit to the argument that Foster was nothing more than a product of the system. I don't find it likely, but at least we will have some sort of answer to finally close this 2 year debate out either way. Lastly, if you are going to base an argument for struggling on someone who "only" had 89 total yards and a touchdown...well then I would say you don't have an argument at all and are simply grasping at straws. You may have wanted to wait for a game in which he didn't manage to put up respectable numbers despite having an unproven, low round rookie unexpectedly getting thrust into the QB spot for the 2nd half (a player that likely had little to no involvement in the game plan or even expected to go into the game until having to do so).
I agree with everything here other than the 89 total yards and a td thing. 22 carries for 65 yards = 3 ypc. Ben Tate is catching up, less than 100 yards behind on 60 les carries! lol OK I'm done with the Ben Tate stuff, I just Think its hilarious . :thumbup:
SHOCKING that you would disagree with that point because he added receiving yards, and then you once again only cite the disparity in rushing yards. Are you a 12 year old?
ok .... 29 touches for 89 yards = 3.0 yards per touch..... do you consider that an affective game? I didn't disagree with him because he added receiving yards.... I disagreed with him because he said that I was grasping for straws when I used Fosters last game as an example of him struggling. Sure, he wasn't struggling for fantasy purposes, but he certainly was from a real game performance point of view. Calling me a 12 year old and lashing out in anger for no reason, when you didn't even understand my point, that shows quite a bit of your maturity level doesn't it?
 
'RUSF18 said:
'wiscstlatlmia said:
'Herm23 said:
Most of the long term criticism leveled at Foster has been about his situation and how it was so perfect and there was nobody there to challenge his job. Some of that eroded when he fought off a challenge to his workload from Ben Tate to start the season. This stretch to end the season with T.J. Yates or whatever journeyman QB they decide to start will either erode most of the rest of the argument or else provide extra fodder for critics if he struggles.If Foster does succeed, the last shred of defense left for the anti Foster folks will be the offensive line dominance. While I agree that it is good, most any running back to ever play the game has required at least SOME help in order to produce elite stats. Foster isn't an all time type player (like an Adrian Peterson), so naturally he will need some help in order to produce at top levels. This is true of any running back that isn't projecting to go down as one of the greatest to ever play the game. 2 years ago, Forte looked like a bum because the offense sucked and the offensive line was a train wreck. Just last year, Ray Rice looked somewhat pedestrian because his offensive line was struggling mightily. Heck, even this year Chris Johnson has been awful in part due to terrible offensive line play (and in part because he doesn't look like he cares, but that's another story). It happens all the time to great players- situations change. The key is that these players suffer a decline in stats as the situation erodes, but still perform well above average to keep them afloat until the situation improves and they can once again flourish. For instance, while Ray Rice's numbers regressed last season due to poor offensive line play and questionable play calling, he still ended the season with 1,776 total yards and 6 touchdowns. Not exactly top of the line production, but far from anything to sneeze at. If anyone is going to pin their argument to the fact that a player can't succeed without supporting talent around him in some capacity, then that isn't an argument at all because that is true for all but a very, very, very small handful of players playing the game, regardless of what decade we are talking about. Foster needing EITHER a good quarterback or a good offensive line to produce like one of the very best running backs in the game isn't an indictment on Foster, but rather a comment on the way the NFL is now with all the team speed on defense forcing offenses to need more than just 1 weapon to take pressure off players.On the flip side, if Foster begins to average 50-80 total yards with little to no scoring production to close out the season with Yates or whoever at quarterback, I think it will lend some merit to the argument that Foster was nothing more than a product of the system. I don't find it likely, but at least we will have some sort of answer to finally close this 2 year debate out either way. Lastly, if you are going to base an argument for struggling on someone who "only" had 89 total yards and a touchdown...well then I would say you don't have an argument at all and are simply grasping at straws. You may have wanted to wait for a game in which he didn't manage to put up respectable numbers despite having an unproven, low round rookie unexpectedly getting thrust into the QB spot for the 2nd half (a player that likely had little to no involvement in the game plan or even expected to go into the game until having to do so).
I agree with everything here other than the 89 total yards and a td thing. 22 carries for 65 yards = 3 ypc. Ben Tate is catching up, less than 100 yards behind on 60 les carries! lol OK I'm done with the Ben Tate stuff, I just Think its hilarious . :thumbup:
SHOCKING that you would disagree with that point because he added receiving yards, and then you once again only cite the disparity in rushing yards. Are you a 12 year old?
ok .... 29 touches for 89 yards = 3.0 yards per touch..... do you consider that an affective game? I didn't disagree with him because he added receiving yards.... I disagreed with him because he said that I was grasping for straws when I used Fosters last game as an example of him struggling. Sure, he wasn't struggling for fantasy purposes, but he certainly was from a real game performance point of view. Calling me a 12 year old and lashing out in anger for no reason, when you didn't even understand my point, that shows quite a bit of your maturity level doesn't it?
I believe Foster was 13 for 68 (5.2 ypc) and 1 TD, and 5 for 20 in the first half. I think any team will take that from their RB against the #3 ranked defense in the league.In the second half the Texans called an uber conservative game by anyone's standards who doesn't have Tim Tebow as a QB. Kubiak said with a 2 score lead he wanted to put the game in the hands of his defense rather than risk Yates being injured and Owen Daniels having to play QB. As a result it was easy for Jacksonville to stack the line and run blitz and they got a lot of guys into the backfield, and Foster went 9 for -3 yards total. The Texans didn't do anything to make them pay for over-committing so the Jags were able to do it all the second half.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
In the second half the Texans called an uber conservative game by anyone's standards who doesn't have Tim Tebow as a QB. Kubiak said with a 2 score lead he wanted to put the game in the hands of his defense rather than risk Yates being injured and Owen Daniels having to play QB. As a result it was easy for Jacksonville to stack the line and run blitz and they got a lot of guys into the backfield, and Foster went 9 for -3 yards total. The Texans didn't do anything to make them pay for over-committing so the Jags were able to do it all the second half.
Right. With all due respect, I think you're outlining exactly what the fear is for Arian Foster here during the stretch run. The Texans are going to stay very conservative with their play calling out of necessity. Which just plays into the hand of defenses being able to key on Foster. Hopefully the passing game makes some strides over the next week or two. If not, Foster will probably be good but not great to close out the year.
 
In the second half the Texans called an uber conservative game by anyone's standards who doesn't have Tim Tebow as a QB. Kubiak said with a 2 score lead he wanted to put the game in the hands of his defense rather than risk Yates being injured and Owen Daniels having to play QB. As a result it was easy for Jacksonville to stack the line and run blitz and they got a lot of guys into the backfield, and Foster went 9 for -3 yards total. The Texans didn't do anything to make them pay for over-committing so the Jags were able to do it all the second half.
Right. With all due respect, I think you're outlining exactly what the fear is for Arian Foster here during the stretch run. The Texans are going to stay very conservative with their play calling out of necessity. Which just plays into the hand of defenses being able to key on Foster. Hopefully the passing game makes some strides over the next week or two. If not, Foster will probably be good but not great to close out the year.
Except Yates was pretty well rated out of college.Yates can thow.Yates has size.Yates came into a game which was "won" if he did little to tun the ball over. Made his debut, and kept it clean.Now he trains with the team, gets a feel for his amazing weapons (Andre and Daniels)... and Foster remains where he has been all season. Any team who decides to stack the box, will get burned. Mark my words.
 
In the second half the Texans called an uber conservative game by anyone's standards who doesn't have Tim Tebow as a QB. Kubiak said with a 2 score lead he wanted to put the game in the hands of his defense rather than risk Yates being injured and Owen Daniels having to play QB. As a result it was easy for Jacksonville to stack the line and run blitz and they got a lot of guys into the backfield, and Foster went 9 for -3 yards total. The Texans didn't do anything to make them pay for over-committing so the Jags were able to do it all the second half.
Right. With all due respect, I think you're outlining exactly what the fear is for Arian Foster here during the stretch run. The Texans are going to stay very conservative with their play calling out of necessity. Which just plays into the hand of defenses being able to key on Foster. Hopefully the passing game makes some strides over the next week or two. If not, Foster will probably be good but not great to close out the year.
Except Yates was pretty well rated out of college.Yates can thow.Yates has size.Yates came into a game which was "won" if he did little to tun the ball over. Made his debut, and kept it clean.Now he trains with the team, gets a feel for his amazing weapons (Andre and Daniels)... and Foster remains where he has been all season. Any team who decides to stack the box, will get burned. Mark my words.
Surely you aren't suggesting that there's no regression to be expected from Matt Schaub to TJ Yates. Are you? I think you've seen too much of Cam and Dalton and are forgetting what the average rookie is capable of.
 
In the second half the Texans called an uber conservative game by anyone's standards who doesn't have Tim Tebow as a QB. Kubiak said with a 2 score lead he wanted to put the game in the hands of his defense rather than risk Yates being injured and Owen Daniels having to play QB. As a result it was easy for Jacksonville to stack the line and run blitz and they got a lot of guys into the backfield, and Foster went 9 for -3 yards total. The Texans didn't do anything to make them pay for over-committing so the Jags were able to do it all the second half.
Right. With all due respect, I think you're outlining exactly what the fear is for Arian Foster here during the stretch run. The Texans are going to stay very conservative with their play calling out of necessity. Which just plays into the hand of defenses being able to key on Foster. Hopefully the passing game makes some strides over the next week or two. If not, Foster will probably be good but not great to close out the year.
Except Yates was pretty well rated out of college.Yates can thow.Yates has size.Yates came into a game which was "won" if he did little to tun the ball over. Made his debut, and kept it clean.Now he trains with the team, gets a feel for his amazing weapons (Andre and Daniels)... and Foster remains where he has been all season. Any team who decides to stack the box, will get burned. Mark my words.
Surely you aren't suggesting that there's no regression to be expected from Matt Schaub to TJ Yates. Are you? I think you've seen too much of Cam and Dalton and are forgetting what the average rookie is capable of.
I dont expect Cam or Dalton numbers by any means... But what I do expect is to see a QB who can get the ball to his receivers, with some decent consistency. He doesn't need to be a game winning QB, he can let Andre, Daniels, Tate, Foster, Walter, Jones etc do that for him.All he needs to do, is keep defences honest.You don't think he's capable of that?
 
In the second half the Texans called an uber conservative game by anyone's standards who doesn't have Tim Tebow as a QB. Kubiak said with a 2 score lead he wanted to put the game in the hands of his defense rather than risk Yates being injured and Owen Daniels having to play QB. As a result it was easy for Jacksonville to stack the line and run blitz and they got a lot of guys into the backfield, and Foster went 9 for -3 yards total. The Texans didn't do anything to make them pay for over-committing so the Jags were able to do it all the second half.
Right. With all due respect, I think you're outlining exactly what the fear is for Arian Foster here during the stretch run. The Texans are going to stay very conservative with their play calling out of necessity. Which just plays into the hand of defenses being able to key on Foster. Hopefully the passing game makes some strides over the next week or two. If not, Foster will probably be good but not great to close out the year.
Except Yates was pretty well rated out of college.Yates can thow.

Yates has size.

Yates came into a game which was "won" if he did little to tun the ball over. Made his debut, and kept it clean.

Now he trains with the team, gets a feel for his amazing weapons (Andre and Daniels)... and Foster remains where he has been all season.

Any team who decides to stack the box, will get burned. Mark my words.
Surely you aren't suggesting that there's no regression to be expected from Matt Schaub to TJ Yates. Are you? I think you've seen too much of Cam and Dalton and are forgetting what the average rookie is capable of.
I dont expect Cam or Dalton numbers by any means... But what I do expect is to see a QB who can get the ball to his receivers, with some decent consistency. He doesn't need to be a game winning QB, he can let Andre, Daniels, Tate, Foster, Walter, Jones etc do that for him.All he needs to do, is keep defences honest.

You don't think he's capable of that?
No I don't. And it really has nothing to do with Yates. For what it's worth, I see some positives in the guy. He's pretty accurate and comes out of a pro-style offense. I'm not saying he'll be stumbling and bumbling around. But that's not relevant. It has to do with perception. There's no way in hell D coordinators game planning for the Texans will come to the conclusion of, "Gee, we'd really like to put eight in the box against Foster, but that just opens us up to Yates picking us apart up and down the field". That's NOT happening. Foster is the only thing for defenses to concern themselves with.
 
In the second half the Texans called an uber conservative game by anyone's standards who doesn't have Tim Tebow as a QB. Kubiak said with a 2 score lead he wanted to put the game in the hands of his defense rather than risk Yates being injured and Owen Daniels having to play QB. As a result it was easy for Jacksonville to stack the line and run blitz and they got a lot of guys into the backfield, and Foster went 9 for -3 yards total. The Texans didn't do anything to make them pay for over-committing so the Jags were able to do it all the second half.
Right. With all due respect, I think you're outlining exactly what the fear is for Arian Foster here during the stretch run. The Texans are going to stay very conservative with their play calling out of necessity. Which just plays into the hand of defenses being able to key on Foster. Hopefully the passing game makes some strides over the next week or two. If not, Foster will probably be good but not great to close out the year.
Is it a concern the Texans will be more conservative than with Schaub? Sure. Not only was there the same concern with Leinart, I'd even say it was and still is a bit of an expectation.But there's a big difference though between being conservative versus making no attempt at all to make the defense back off. Yes it's possible Yates may fail to keep defenses as honest as Foster owners (or Texans fans) would like. But they aren't going to be so conservative as they were in Jacksonville to not even let Yates try.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
In the second half the Texans called an uber conservative game by anyone's standards who doesn't have Tim Tebow as a QB. Kubiak said with a 2 score lead he wanted to put the game in the hands of his defense rather than risk Yates being injured and Owen Daniels having to play QB. As a result it was easy for Jacksonville to stack the line and run blitz and they got a lot of guys into the backfield, and Foster went 9 for -3 yards total. The Texans didn't do anything to make them pay for over-committing so the Jags were able to do it all the second half.
Right. With all due respect, I think you're outlining exactly what the fear is for Arian Foster here during the stretch run. The Texans are going to stay very conservative with their play calling out of necessity. Which just plays into the hand of defenses being able to key on Foster. Hopefully the passing game makes some strides over the next week or two. If not, Foster will probably be good but not great to close out the year.
Is it a concern the Texans will be more conservative than with Schaub? Sure. Not only was there the same concern with Leinart, I'd even say it was and still is a bit of an expectation.But there's a big difference though between being conservative versus making no attempt at all to make the defense back off. Yes it's possible Yates may fail to keep defenses as honest as Foster owners (or Texans fans) would like. But they aren't going to be so conservative as they were in Jacksonville to not even let Yates try.
No argument with this, I think you're right. I think we just disagree on how effective Yates will be in "making the D back off".
 
In the second half the Texans called an uber conservative game by anyone's standards who doesn't have Tim Tebow as a QB. Kubiak said with a 2 score lead he wanted to put the game in the hands of his defense rather than risk Yates being injured and Owen Daniels having to play QB. As a result it was easy for Jacksonville to stack the line and run blitz and they got a lot of guys into the backfield, and Foster went 9 for -3 yards total. The Texans didn't do anything to make them pay for over-committing so the Jags were able to do it all the second half.
Right. With all due respect, I think you're outlining exactly what the fear is for Arian Foster here during the stretch run. The Texans are going to stay very conservative with their play calling out of necessity. Which just plays into the hand of defenses being able to key on Foster. Hopefully the passing game makes some strides over the next week or two. If not, Foster will probably be good but not great to close out the year.
Is it a concern the Texans will be more conservative than with Schaub? Sure. Not only was there the same concern with Leinart, I'd even say it was and still is a bit of an expectation.But there's a big difference though between being conservative versus making no attempt at all to make the defense back off. Yes it's possible Yates may fail to keep defenses as honest as Foster owners (or Texans fans) would like. But they aren't going to be so conservative as they were in Jacksonville to not even let Yates try.
No argument with this, I think you're right. I think we just disagree on how effective Yates will be in "making the D back off".
That can change quickly with one or two bombs to AJ or Daniels, though.I'm sure the coaching staff knows this.And I don't even mean letting Yates rip off 50yd throws... I mean letting those guys MAKE the plays themselves (as they are capable of doing).. A 10yd pass turning into huge gains will do more than enough to scare defenses/co-ordinators. You ALWAYS have to game plan for Andre. Just a fact of life.
 
In the second half the Texans called an uber conservative game by anyone's standards who doesn't have Tim Tebow as a QB. Kubiak said with a 2 score lead he wanted to put the game in the hands of his defense rather than risk Yates being injured and Owen Daniels having to play QB. As a result it was easy for Jacksonville to stack the line and run blitz and they got a lot of guys into the backfield, and Foster went 9 for -3 yards total. The Texans didn't do anything to make them pay for over-committing so the Jags were able to do it all the second half.
Right. With all due respect, I think you're outlining exactly what the fear is for Arian Foster here during the stretch run. The Texans are going to stay very conservative with their play calling out of necessity. Which just plays into the hand of defenses being able to key on Foster. Hopefully the passing game makes some strides over the next week or two. If not, Foster will probably be good but not great to close out the year.
Is it a concern the Texans will be more conservative than with Schaub? Sure. Not only was there the same concern with Leinart, I'd even say it was and still is a bit of an expectation.But there's a big difference though between being conservative versus making no attempt at all to make the defense back off. Yes it's possible Yates may fail to keep defenses as honest as Foster owners (or Texans fans) would like. But they aren't going to be so conservative as they were in Jacksonville to not even let Yates try.
No argument with this, I think you're right. I think we just disagree on how effective Yates will be in "making the D back off".
That can change quickly with one or two bombs to AJ or Daniels, though.I'm sure the coaching staff knows this.And I don't even mean letting Yates rip off 50yd throws... I mean letting those guys MAKE the plays themselves (as they are capable of doing).. A 10yd pass turning into huge gains will do more than enough to scare defenses/co-ordinators. You ALWAYS have to game plan for Andre. Just a fact of life.
Nope, I still disagree. And I'm an Andre Johnson owner so if anything, I'd LOVE for you to be right and prove me wrong. Three targets for 2-22-0 last week and after the game Kubiak is cussing himself out for stretching you too far too soon!? Not a good combo. There's simply no way (right now) that coordinators would look at Yates throwing to Daniels and what appears to be a WAY less than 100% AJ and find a reason to not key on Foster. I sure hope I lose this argument though!
 
This thing for Foster owners to hang their hat on though is, everything I say could be true. He could be 18-54-0 but it's that 19th carry that sends him to 19-130-1 for the day. With guys like him I could be right and he still makes it look silly.

 
Foster has now scored in six consecutive games, becoming the first back to crack 100 yards against Atlanta's stout run defense in 15 games.

..... We were saying???

 
From his tweets it sounds like Foster was sick today. If so I wonder if that was a factor for why the Texans went as RBBC as they did, or if it is something we'll see more of.

Edit to add: If anyone has access to play count (not just touches) for both players for the game I'd be interested to hear what the breakdown was.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
From his tweets it sounds like Foster was sick today. If so I wonder if that was a factor for why the Texans went as RBBC as they did, or if it is something we'll see more of.Edit to add: If anyone has access to play count (not just touches) for both players for the game I'd be interested to hear what the breakdown was.
to be fair, Foster had 34.... I repeat, 34 touches of the ball today.So, yes, while it's true that Tate had 11 carries, it was still nowhere close.And yes, Foster was apparently extremely sick with the flu... which makes his performance even more amazing
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top