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and 
Would a LOOK AT ME I HAD SEX WITH MY WIFE!!! joke here be in bad taste due to the title of the thread? I mean, I know it would be unfunny, but I'm wondering if it is in bad taste as well.
You held onto this for 8 years just waiting for the right moment to throw it back in our faces? Typical woman.
She got to say I told you so, to a board full of men. WINNING.
Link, or it didn't happen.
She run across it in her daily review of your text messages, emails, phone calls and purchases?Alpha tommyboy can't stand for that kind of snooping. It's time to be a peacock, neg your wife, and rapidly switch between alpha and beta...she won't know what hit her.'tommyboy said:so yesterday wife sees the book receipt. today she puts on a bit more makeup and wears a lower cut shirt then asks me out on a date saturday and tells me tomorrow night is sex night... hell i haven't read half the book yet, and haven't consciously implemented anything at all. but i'm sure athol doesn't know #### about the subject.
no, she doesn't have access to most of my stuff since i have a business email i use for MY stuff. It just happened that i used the home email when i bought the book, so i could download the book and read it at home.honestly, i think i do a lot of the alpha/beta stuff already, but i do need to work on my physical appearance (20lbs overweight) and i like the reminder of the "alpha" attitude in general. I have 4 kids, i'm beta trained already.She run across it in her daily review of your text messages, emails, phone calls and purchases?Alpha tommyboy can't stand for that kind of snooping. It's time to be a peacock, neg your wife, and rapidly switch between alpha and beta...she won't know what hit her.'tommyboy said:so yesterday wife sees the book receipt. today she puts on a bit more makeup and wears a lower cut shirt then asks me out on a date saturday and tells me tomorrow night is sex night... hell i haven't read half the book yet, and haven't consciously implemented anything at all. but i'm sure athol doesn't know #### about the subject.
:chuckle:
Can't speak for Bogart, but this is when it really started going South in my marriage. When my wife would start lying to me and/or hiding things from me she knew I wouldn't like. Then (worse) trying to take advantage of the fact that I've had some recent migraine issues and some other issues in my head that are causing a bit of occasional short-term memory loss. A la her telling me that she wasn't ____________, only to have me ask what she's doing and have her say "Oh, we talked about that...you said you were okay with __________," which was complete fiction. Nothing terribly serious, but lying to me (then finally coming clean about lying to me about it after I wouldn't let her off the hook) has really eroded trust in our relationship.The thing with my wife is that she wants to schedule herself and our kids into 1,001 activities. Some not costing money, others costing money, but ALL of them costing precious time. Time we could have as a family of four. Time we could have as a couple. She says that's normal, and that I'd better get used to it. Maybe I was an outlier as a kid, but my oldest daughter (8) has probably already been in more stuff and had more sleep overs, home and away, then I had before leaving for college. It just feels as though our calendars are kept insanely busy so that we don't have to deal with the harsh, empty condition of our relationship. And any time I voice my displeasure/concern for how crazy our schedules are? Well, I'm being unreasonable...and I need to change.
I haven't read most of this thread, but this post doesn't mention any sexy time dilemmas. Are you good in that department or does your schedule/family life put a damper on that?Can't speak for Bogart, but this is when it really started going South in my marriage. When my wife would start lying to me and/or hiding things from me she knew I wouldn't like. Then (worse) trying to take advantage of the fact that I've had some recent migraine issues and some other issues in my head that are causing a bit of occasional short-term memory loss. A la her telling me that she wasn't ____________, only to have me ask what she's doing and have her say "Oh, we talked about that...you said you were okay with __________," which was complete fiction. Nothing terribly serious, but lying to me (then finally coming clean about lying to me about it after I wouldn't let her off the hook) has really eroded trust in our relationship.The thing with my wife is that she wants to schedule herself and our kids into 1,001 activities. Some not costing money, others costing money, but ALL of them costing precious time. Time we could have as a family of four. Time we could have as a couple. She says that's normal, and that I'd better get used to it. Maybe I was an outlier as a kid, but my oldest daughter (8) has probably already been in more stuff and had more sleep overs, home and away, then I had before leaving for college. It just feels as though our calendars are kept insanely busy so that we don't have to deal with the harsh, empty condition of our relationship. And any time I voice my displeasure/concern for how crazy our schedules are? Well, I'm being unreasonable...and I need to change.
Take this week, as a typical example:
Monday: My daughter comes home after school with three of her friends. Unannounced/unplanned. Mind you, I work from home, so four 8 year old girls doing what eight year old girls do is a distraction/disruption at work, to say the least! My wife then is busy doing God knows what, and we eat dinner about 45 minutes late. My daughter's friends are back knocking on our front door asking if she can go over to the park and play before we're even finished with dinner, then they end up running around in our yard scattering toys, litter, ??? until about 8:30pm (about 45 minutes after our girls are supposed to be in bed, on a school night).
Tuesday: See Monday. Only instead of three friends, it was one friend. We eat 30-45 minutes late (again), and then 4-5 of my daughter's friends are banging on the door after dinner. With our girls getting to bed around 8:30pm. With our youngest crying and yelling because the "big girls" don't want to include her. AGAIN, on a school night.
Wednesday. Last day of school...so my daughter comes home, friend in-tow, around lunch time. We then go to a preschool graduation for my youngest, which runs into dinner (5:30pm). My wife understandably doesn't feel like cooking, so she runs to Subway to buy us all dinner while I take our youngest home to change her clothes and get ready to play outside. We then drive over to an area park with dinner, eat until about 6:45pm, then my wife tells me that she needs to leave to take my oldest to a bonfire at her friend's house (unscheduled, and first I've heard of it). Okay...I entertain my youngest while she's gone, then we head home when she gets back. Around 7:15pm or so. She then says she wants to take our youngest out for ice cream, with me staying home until our oldest shows up. About 8:45pm, my oldest rumbles in and we play at the park across the street until after 9:00pm when my wife and youngest finally get home. My oldest asks where they were, and proceeds to melt-down after being told that they went out for ice cream (without her). Chernobyl would have been proud! Dealing with that until about 9:45pm. Mind you, I generally am supposed to be back at work by around 8:00pm each evening.
Thursday. Oldest and youngest go to daycare (thank God...an actual 8-hour block without pre-teen XX chromosomes running around yelling and crying while I'm trying to pay the bills). Wife wastes a good chunk of the day getting ready for a garage sale and an open house that she and her sister had planned for Saturday...which takes about 10 hours to prep for and maybe 2-3 hours to clean up after, as well as a good 8-10 hours to operate, all for MAYBE $100-$200 net? We eat dinner about 20 minutes late, AGAIN, and then she says "oh...I need to _______________" to get ready for this weekend's bull####, and I'm busy trying to do all the picking up/dishes and keeping the girls from killing one another. The girls end up getting to bed 30-45 minutes late...AGAIN, which means I'm late getting back to work.
Friday. Wife wastes more time getting ready for the Open House, as well as the garage sale that she's taken our stuff to sell (which she promised last Summer she/we would never do again). About 5-6pm, after eating late (again), my sister-in-law and niece rumble in for tomorrow's Open House. They are loud, and don't keep anything close to a "normal" schedule. So...my kids are up until well past 11pm doing whatever they're doing...making a racket while I'm trying to pay the bills.
Saturday. Both kids get up at a normal time, but are noticeably crabby after being 2-3+ hours short on sleep from the night before. Basically, they've been yelling, pounding on the piano, leaving 50 messes in their wake, etc. all day...while I try and do some yard work and keep the house from looking like an episode of Hoarders. Did I mention the Open House was at our house...and that it basically completely took over the entire first floor of our home? So after making their $100-$200 (net), it'll take hours getting everything back together...while the girls get crabbier and more tired.
Sunday (tomorrow). Who knows...but if it's typical, girls will be in each other's hair half the day, we'll eat dinner 30-45 minutes late, and they'll get to bed 30-45+ minutes after they're supposed to. On top of the two hours I'll spend on laundry and cleaning/organization (like I do most every day) and the 12-14 hours I'll spend getting a jump on the coming week to keep food on the table.
This is a typical week for our family. It is complete and utter chaos...about two-thirds of which is elective (poor decisions on my wife and my part). Kids running in and out of here without any advanced warning/notice. My wife planning for her next ____________ that will make us about $6/hour (when she's sacrificing time at our company that would be paying her over $25/hour). My wife running off to 4-5 committees she serves on, having a "trip to pick up our oldest at a friends house" turn into an unplanned 90-minute chat with the other girl's mom while our youngest asks "where's Mom?" about 80 times in the interim, "just in time delivery" of any/all responsibilities she has for our family, etc. Or late more often then not...such as knowing for two days that we're getting low on milk or toilet paper, only to wait until it runs out and tell me at 6:30-7:00pm that she needs to run to the grocery store. Which really means getting home around 8:00pm after seeing a friend in the store and shooting the bull...with me left to deal with getting our girls ready for bed (though they won't go to bed until Mom gets home to ready stories and snuggle). Etc, etc, etc.
I've had enough. If it were occasional chaos, I could accept it. But the only break I get from the looney bin is when I'm not home or when they're not home. I love my girls to death, but this is a HIGHLY unhealthy environment for me to live in. Particularly since I struggle with chronic migraines, and need quiet/calm to function without feeling like my skull is trying to give birth to a baseball.
You must be new here.
Just kidding, just kidding. Bogart and I have been the subject of a lot of the "not getting any" banter back and forth...so when Mrs. BSR brought up the issue of trust in her last posting, I couldn't help but rant a little bit. Agreeing with her, but just trying to illustrate how comical and sad my life/marriage has become.Carry on... 
You need to ask yourself are you the man in this relationship or is she? Sit down and tell her you are both going to scale back this insane schedule and no you don't have to accept the current one. She doesn't get to make unilateral decisions. If she doesn't agree tell her shell need to learn to like it cause this insane schedule is no longer. You need alone time with her and the kids need to learn that life isn't 24/7 activity. If you let your wife have the #### and balls in the relationship it's doomed and deep down she wants you to be the man and take charge so don't let her.Can't speak for Bogart, but this is when it really started going South in my marriage. When my wife would start lying to me and/or hiding things from me she knew I wouldn't like. Then (worse) trying to take advantage of the fact that I've had some recent migraine issues and some other issues in my head that are causing a bit of occasional short-term memory loss. A la her telling me that she wasn't ____________, only to have me ask what she's doing and have her say "Oh, we talked about that...you said you were okay with __________," which was complete fiction. Nothing terribly serious, but lying to me (then finally coming clean about lying to me about it after I wouldn't let her off the hook) has really eroded trust in our relationship.The thing with my wife is that she wants to schedule herself and our kids into 1,001 activities. Some not costing money, others costing money, but ALL of them costing precious time. Time we could have as a family of four. Time we could have as a couple. She says that's normal, and that I'd better get used to it. Maybe I was an outlier as a kid, but my oldest daughter (8) has probably already been in more stuff and had more sleep overs, home and away, then I had before leaving for college. It just feels as though our calendars are kept insanely busy so that we don't have to deal with the harsh, empty condition of our relationship. And any time I voice my displeasure/concern for how crazy our schedules are? Well, I'm being unreasonable...and I need to change.
Take this week, as a typical example:
Monday: My daughter comes home after school with three of her friends. Unannounced/unplanned. Mind you, I work from home, so four 8 year old girls doing what eight year old girls do is a distraction/disruption at work, to say the least! My wife then is busy doing God knows what, and we eat dinner about 45 minutes late. My daughter's friends are back knocking on our front door asking if she can go over to the park and play before we're even finished with dinner, then they end up running around in our yard scattering toys, litter, ??? until about 8:30pm (about 45 minutes after our girls are supposed to be in bed, on a school night).
Tuesday: See Monday. Only instead of three friends, it was one friend. We eat 30-45 minutes late (again), and then 4-5 of my daughter's friends are banging on the door after dinner. With our girls getting to bed around 8:30pm. With our youngest crying and yelling because the "big girls" don't want to include her. AGAIN, on a school night.
Wednesday. Last day of school...so my daughter comes home, friend in-tow, around lunch time. We then go to a preschool graduation for my youngest, which runs into dinner (5:30pm). My wife understandably doesn't feel like cooking, so she runs to Subway to buy us all dinner while I take our youngest home to change her clothes and get ready to play outside. We then drive over to an area park with dinner, eat until about 6:45pm, then my wife tells me that she needs to leave to take my oldest to a bonfire at her friend's house (unscheduled, and first I've heard of it). Okay...I entertain my youngest while she's gone, then we head home when she gets back. Around 7:15pm or so. She then says she wants to take our youngest out for ice cream, with me staying home until our oldest shows up. About 8:45pm, my oldest rumbles in and we play at the park across the street until after 9:00pm when my wife and youngest finally get home. My oldest asks where they were, and proceeds to melt-down after being told that they went out for ice cream (without her). Chernobyl would have been proud! Dealing with that until about 9:45pm. Mind you, I generally am supposed to be back at work by around 8:00pm each evening.
Thursday. Oldest and youngest go to daycare (thank God...an actual 8-hour block without pre-teen XX chromosomes running around yelling and crying while I'm trying to pay the bills). Wife wastes a good chunk of the day getting ready for a garage sale and an open house that she and her sister had planned for Saturday...which takes about 10 hours to prep for and maybe 2-3 hours to clean up after, as well as a good 8-10 hours to operate, all for MAYBE $100-$200 net? We eat dinner about 20 minutes late, AGAIN, and then she says "oh...I need to _______________" to get ready for this weekend's bull####, and I'm busy trying to do all the picking up/dishes and keeping the girls from killing one another. The girls end up getting to bed 30-45 minutes late...AGAIN, which means I'm late getting back to work.
Friday. Wife wastes more time getting ready for the Open House, as well as the garage sale that she's taken our stuff to sell (which she promised last Summer she/we would never do again). About 6pm, after eating late (again), my sister-in-law and niece rumble in for tomorrow's Open House. They are loud, and don't keep anything close to a "normal" schedule. So...my kids are up until well past 11pm doing whatever they're doing...making a racket while I'm trying to pay the bills.
Saturday. Both kids get up at a normal time, but are noticeably crabby after being 2-3+ hours short on sleep from the night before. Basically, they've been yelling, pounding on the piano, leaving 50 messes in their wake, etc. all day...while I try and do some yard work and keep the house from looking like an episode of Hoarders. Did I mention the Open House was at our house...and that it basically completely took over the entire first floor of our home? So after making their $100-$200 (net), it'll take hours getting everything back together...while the girls get crabbier and more tired.
Sunday (tomorrow). Who knows...but if it's typical, girls will be in each other's hair half the day, we'll eat dinner 30-45 minutes late, and they'll get to bed 30-45+ minutes after they're supposed to. On top of the two hours I'll spend on laundry and cleaning/organization (like I do most every day) and the 12-14 hours I'll spend getting a jump on the coming week to keep food on the table.
This is a typical week for our family. It is complete and utter chaos...about two-thirds of which is elective (poor decisions on my wife and my part). Kids running in and out of here without any advanced warning/notice. My wife planning for her next ____________ that will make us about $6/hour (when she's sacrificing time at our company that would be paying her over $25/hour). My wife running off to 4-5 committees she serves on, having a "trip to pick up our oldest at a friends house" turn into an unplanned 90-minute chat with the other girl's mom while our youngest asks "where's Mom?" about 80 times in the interim, "just in time delivery" of any/all responsibilities she has for our family, etc. Or late more often then not...such as knowing for two days that we're getting low on milk or toilet paper, only to wait until it runs out and tell me at 6:30-7:00pm that she needs to run to the grocery store. Which really means getting home around 8:00pm after seeing a friend in the store and shooting the bull...with me left to deal with getting our girls ready for bed (though they won't go to bed until Mom gets home to ready stories and snuggle). Etc, etc, etc.
I've had enough. If it were occasional chaos, I could accept it. But the only break I get from the looney bin is when I'm not home or when they're not home. I love my girls to death, but this is a HIGHLY unhealthy environment for me to live in. Particularly since I struggle with chronic migraines, and need quiet/calm to function without feeling like my skull is trying to give birth to a baseball.
Dude, you just need to stop. You have been complaining about your wife with the same material for 5 years like this:Can't speak for Bogart, but this is when it really started going South in my marriage. When my wife would start lying to me and/or hiding things from me she knew I wouldn't like. Then (worse) trying to take advantage of the fact that I've had some recent migraine issues and some other issues in my head that are causing a bit of occasional short-term memory loss. A la her telling me that she wasn't ____________, only to have me ask what she's doing and have her say "Oh, we talked about that...you said you were okay with __________," which was complete fiction. Nothing terribly serious, but lying to me (then finally coming clean about lying to me about it after I wouldn't let her off the hook) has really eroded trust in our relationship.The thing with my wife is that she wants to schedule herself and our kids into 1,001 activities. Some not costing money, others costing money, but ALL of them costing precious time. Time we could have as a family of four. Time we could have as a couple. She says that's normal, and that I'd better get used to it. Maybe I was an outlier as a kid, but my oldest daughter (8) has probably already been in more stuff and had more sleep overs, home and away, then I had before leaving for college. It just feels as though our calendars are kept insanely busy so that we don't have to deal with the harsh, empty condition of our relationship. And any time I voice my displeasure/concern for how crazy our schedules are? Well, I'm being unreasonable...and I need to change.
Take this week, as a typical example:
Monday: My daughter comes home after school with three of her friends. Unannounced/unplanned. Mind you, I work from home, so four 8 year old girls doing what eight year old girls do is a distraction/disruption at work, to say the least! My wife then is busy doing God knows what, and we eat dinner about 45 minutes late. My daughter's friends are back knocking on our front door asking if she can go over to the park and play before we're even finished with dinner, then they end up running around in our yard scattering toys, litter, ??? until about 8:30pm (about 45 minutes after our girls are supposed to be in bed, on a school night).
Tuesday: See Monday. Only instead of three friends, it was one friend. We eat 30-45 minutes late (again), and then 4-5 of my daughter's friends are banging on the door after dinner. With our girls getting to bed around 8:30pm. With our youngest crying and yelling because the "big girls" don't want to include her. AGAIN, on a school night.
Wednesday. Last day of school...so my daughter comes home, friend in-tow, around lunch time. We then go to a preschool graduation for my youngest, which runs into dinner (5:30pm). My wife understandably doesn't feel like cooking, so she runs to Subway to buy us all dinner while I take our youngest home to change her clothes and get ready to play outside. We then drive over to an area park with dinner, eat until about 6:45pm, then my wife tells me that she needs to leave to take my oldest to a bonfire at her friend's house (unscheduled, and first I've heard of it). Okay...I entertain my youngest while she's gone, then we head home when she gets back. Around 7:15pm or so. She then says she wants to take our youngest out for ice cream, with me staying home until our oldest shows up. About 8:45pm, my oldest rumbles in and we play at the park across the street until after 9:00pm when my wife and youngest finally get home. My oldest asks where they were, and proceeds to melt-down after being told that they went out for ice cream (without her). Chernobyl would have been proud! Dealing with that until about 9:45pm. Mind you, I generally am supposed to be back at work by around 8:00pm each evening.
Thursday. Oldest and youngest go to daycare (thank God...an actual 8-hour block without pre-teen XX chromosomes running around yelling and crying while I'm trying to pay the bills). Wife wastes a good chunk of the day getting ready for a garage sale and an open house that she and her sister had planned for Saturday...which takes about 10 hours to prep for and maybe 2-3 hours to clean up after, as well as a good 8-10 hours to operate, all for MAYBE $100-$200 net? We eat dinner about 20 minutes late, AGAIN, and then she says "oh...I need to _______________" to get ready for this weekend's bull####, and I'm busy trying to do all the picking up/dishes and keeping the girls from killing one another. The girls end up getting to bed 30-45 minutes late...AGAIN, which means I'm late getting back to work.
Friday. Wife wastes more time getting ready for the Open House, as well as the garage sale that she's taken our stuff to sell (which she promised last Summer she/we would never do again). About 6pm, after eating late (again), my sister-in-law and niece rumble in for tomorrow's Open House. They are loud, and don't keep anything close to a "normal" schedule. So...my kids are up until well past 11pm doing whatever they're doing...making a racket while I'm trying to pay the bills.
Saturday. Both kids get up at a normal time, but are noticeably crabby after being 2-3+ hours short on sleep from the night before. Basically, they've been yelling, pounding on the piano, leaving 50 messes in their wake, etc. all day...while I try and do some yard work and keep the house from looking like an episode of Hoarders. Did I mention the Open House was at our house...and that it basically completely took over the entire first floor of our home? So after making their $100-$200 (net), it'll take hours getting everything back together...while the girls get crabbier and more tired.
Sunday (tomorrow). Who knows...but if it's typical, girls will be in each other's hair half the day, we'll eat dinner 30-45 minutes late, and they'll get to bed 30-45+ minutes after they're supposed to. On top of the two hours I'll spend on laundry and cleaning/organization (like I do most every day) and the 12-14 hours I'll spend getting a jump on the coming week to keep food on the table.
This is a typical week for our family. It is complete and utter chaos...about two-thirds of which is elective (poor decisions on my wife and my part). Kids running in and out of here without any advanced warning/notice. My wife planning for her next ____________ that will make us about $6/hour (when she's sacrificing time at our company that would be paying her over $25/hour). My wife running off to 4-5 committees she serves on, having a "trip to pick up our oldest at a friends house" turn into an unplanned 90-minute chat with the other girl's mom while our youngest asks "where's Mom?" about 80 times in the interim, "just in time delivery" of any/all responsibilities she has for our family, etc. Or late more often then not...such as knowing for two days that we're getting low on milk or toilet paper, only to wait until it runs out and tell me at 6:30-7:00pm that she needs to run to the grocery store. Which really means getting home around 8:00pm after seeing a friend in the store and shooting the bull...with me left to deal with getting our girls ready for bed (though they won't go to bed until Mom gets home to ready stories and snuggle). Etc, etc, etc.
I've had enough. If it were occasional chaos, I could accept it. But the only break I get from the looney bin is when I'm not home or when they're not home. I love my girls to death, but this is a HIGHLY unhealthy environment for me to live in. Particularly since I struggle with chronic migraines, and need quiet/calm to function without feeling like my skull is trying to give birth to a baseball.
'datonn said:and thistdoss,So what do you REALLY think?!
Seriously though, we probably had a B-/B marriage before we had kids. Not spectacular, but not horrible either. "The bedroom" was never that great though. Then, in the span of four years, we've:
- lost my grandmother, who was like a "second mom" to me
- had daugther #1
- moved to a new town
- went from two paychecks to one paycheck
- lost my wife's mom to cancer
- had a miscarriage (second trimester)
- teetered on the edge of financial collapse (though all is much better now)
- lost a nephew to a rare medical condition at 10 minutes of age
- had daugther #2
On top of it all, my wife's way of responding to emotional situations or potential conflict is to withdraw.....shut 'er down, look within while shutting out others, etc.
It's been a recipe for disaster. I don't "blame" anyone, as "it" happens. I'm just tired of having to "carry" other people on my back/shoulders when I could use a little relief, encouragement and HELP from time to time as well.
The FFA and a serious conversation are a dangerous cocktail this time of night, so I should probably take my own baggage, saddle-up and head to bed! Thanks to a couple of you guys for listening and sharing yourthough. Let's just say that "It's ___________ for sex" has been a chronic theme in my life now for longer than I can remember.....
Now, when this thread is finally moving away from your rants about her, you feel compelled to interject them again.It appears that you don't want your life to change- or you would do more to change it. It seems like you just want to remain in comfortable misery and complain.'datonn said:I just can't picture you in a beard, HT. Is that something you did recently, or before we met in-person?'John 14:6 said:How much sleep are you getting? I succumb to anger much more when I'm tired.
For sparking your sex life, try growing a beard. It worked for meSleep is the one thing that is keeping me sane. I do get about 7-7.5 hours of sleep a night. Although then do the math:
13 hours per-day work
7 hours per-day sleep
3 hours per-day w/daughters
So from Sunday to Friday, what's the total hours I have left for me?!
You're next question should be "where's the time for your marriage? No wonder your wife doesn't want to have anything to do with you!" Aah...that's the 800-pound gorilla in the room. After years of having my attempts at conversation, finding mutual hobbies, being frisky, etc. pretty-much being ignored or rebuffed, I finally reached the point of saying "#### it...if you're not going to work with me here, then at least I can try and make sure we have a little money in the bank. Relieving one major source of stress in my life, since you're not willing/able to work with me on the other."
That was around 2005. I moved myself out of our bedroom and have been sleeping in other rooms or on a couch for the past five years. And her response?! Basically, just to ratchet-up the time she spends away from home, scheduling her calendar so full of less-important activities that she couldn't possibly have any time left for me/us if she wanted to. Volunteering/subbing at school or daycare. Volunteering on a couple community committees. Selling home-based business stuff for probably $3-$4 hour, net. Going up to spend the weekend at her aunt's or sister's house. Doing 2-3 hours of shopping at a mall (driving a couple hours to get there) and spending 2-3+ hours just wandering around enjoying being away. Etc. I told her I'd had it with her paying attention to everything and everyone except her own husband...so her response was to do even more of the same things that were causing us to not have any time together in the first place.
Like I said, it's her way of punishing me for having to work while she was making those 2-3 trips/week to visit her dying mother. I've told her that if we had a way for me to be with her, I would have been. However, she interpreted me continuing to work on our home/business as me not being there for her...so she's been punishing me for the past 6-7 years as a result. Not realizing just how hard it was for me to be working to make an income or getting a nursery ready (while she was away from home) before a baby was born...while knowing the hell she was going through at the very same time.
Where the anger comes in is when she (or her friends/family) makes me out to be the bad guy in that scenario. How DARE I work myself to the bone so she had the time and could afford the gas to be gone for 2-3 days while I work until 3-4am stripping woodwork and painting walls! How DARE she have to be the one to get up with _________ at midnight while I am still putting the finishing touches on an RFP/RFQ response that will mean the difference between us being able to afford heat and groceries for the next 3-4 months! Etc. And then when we lost our middle child, having her friends and some family come up to me and tell me that I needed to be there for her because of *her* loss? Seriously, it's almost more than one person can realistically bear.
I kind of agree with RFW here - you really don't come across as a guy who's trying to change anything, datonn, just a guy who likes to vent. Your life seems to revolve around your work and the minutiae of work to what seems like an obsessive level. I don't think that's really all that conducive to creating intimacy with your woman - I've seen that mentioned here in responses to you before, but your answer seems to have always been that there's nothing you can do to change your focus on work.not trying to be a jerk to you, man, just an observation.Dude, you just need to stop. You have been complaining about your wife with the same material for 5 years like this:Can't speak for Bogart, but this is when it really started going South in my marriage. When my wife would start lying to me and/or hiding things from me she knew I wouldn't like. Then (worse) trying to take advantage of the fact that I've had some recent migraine issues and some other issues in my head that are causing a bit of occasional short-term memory loss. A la her telling me that she wasn't ____________, only to have me ask what she's doing and have her say "Oh, we talked about that...you said you were okay with __________," which was complete fiction. Nothing terribly serious, but lying to me (then finally coming clean about lying to me about it after I wouldn't let her off the hook) has really eroded trust in our relationship.The thing with my wife is that she wants to schedule herself and our kids into 1,001 activities. Some not costing money, others costing money, but ALL of them costing precious time. Time we could have as a family of four. Time we could have as a couple. She says that's normal, and that I'd better get used to it. Maybe I was an outlier as a kid, but my oldest daughter (8) has probably already been in more stuff and had more sleep overs, home and away, then I had before leaving for college. It just feels as though our calendars are kept insanely busy so that we don't have to deal with the harsh, empty condition of our relationship. And any time I voice my displeasure/concern for how crazy our schedules are? Well, I'm being unreasonable...and I need to change.
Take this week, as a typical example:
Monday: My daughter comes home after school with three of her friends. Unannounced/unplanned. Mind you, I work from home, so four 8 year old girls doing what eight year old girls do is a distraction/disruption at work, to say the least! My wife then is busy doing God knows what, and we eat dinner about 45 minutes late. My daughter's friends are back knocking on our front door asking if she can go over to the park and play before we're even finished with dinner, then they end up running around in our yard scattering toys, litter, ??? until about 8:30pm (about 45 minutes after our girls are supposed to be in bed, on a school night).
Tuesday: See Monday. Only instead of three friends, it was one friend. We eat 30-45 minutes late (again), and then 4-5 of my daughter's friends are banging on the door after dinner. With our girls getting to bed around 8:30pm. With our youngest crying and yelling because the "big girls" don't want to include her. AGAIN, on a school night.
Wednesday. Last day of school...so my daughter comes home, friend in-tow, around lunch time. We then go to a preschool graduation for my youngest, which runs into dinner (5:30pm). My wife understandably doesn't feel like cooking, so she runs to Subway to buy us all dinner while I take our youngest home to change her clothes and get ready to play outside. We then drive over to an area park with dinner, eat until about 6:45pm, then my wife tells me that she needs to leave to take my oldest to a bonfire at her friend's house (unscheduled, and first I've heard of it). Okay...I entertain my youngest while she's gone, then we head home when she gets back. Around 7:15pm or so. She then says she wants to take our youngest out for ice cream, with me staying home until our oldest shows up. About 8:45pm, my oldest rumbles in and we play at the park across the street until after 9:00pm when my wife and youngest finally get home. My oldest asks where they were, and proceeds to melt-down after being told that they went out for ice cream (without her). Chernobyl would have been proud! Dealing with that until about 9:45pm. Mind you, I generally am supposed to be back at work by around 8:00pm each evening.
Thursday. Oldest and youngest go to daycare (thank God...an actual 8-hour block without pre-teen XX chromosomes running around yelling and crying while I'm trying to pay the bills). Wife wastes a good chunk of the day getting ready for a garage sale and an open house that she and her sister had planned for Saturday...which takes about 10 hours to prep for and maybe 2-3 hours to clean up after, as well as a good 8-10 hours to operate, all for MAYBE $100-$200 net? We eat dinner about 20 minutes late, AGAIN, and then she says "oh...I need to _______________" to get ready for this weekend's bull####, and I'm busy trying to do all the picking up/dishes and keeping the girls from killing one another. The girls end up getting to bed 30-45 minutes late...AGAIN, which means I'm late getting back to work.
Friday. Wife wastes more time getting ready for the Open House, as well as the garage sale that she's taken our stuff to sell (which she promised last Summer she/we would never do again). About 6pm, after eating late (again), my sister-in-law and niece rumble in for tomorrow's Open House. They are loud, and don't keep anything close to a "normal" schedule. So...my kids are up until well past 11pm doing whatever they're doing...making a racket while I'm trying to pay the bills.
Saturday. Both kids get up at a normal time, but are noticeably crabby after being 2-3+ hours short on sleep from the night before. Basically, they've been yelling, pounding on the piano, leaving 50 messes in their wake, etc. all day...while I try and do some yard work and keep the house from looking like an episode of Hoarders. Did I mention the Open House was at our house...and that it basically completely took over the entire first floor of our home? So after making their $100-$200 (net), it'll take hours getting everything back together...while the girls get crabbier and more tired.
Sunday (tomorrow). Who knows...but if it's typical, girls will be in each other's hair half the day, we'll eat dinner 30-45 minutes late, and they'll get to bed 30-45+ minutes after they're supposed to. On top of the two hours I'll spend on laundry and cleaning/organization (like I do most every day) and the 12-14 hours I'll spend getting a jump on the coming week to keep food on the table.
This is a typical week for our family. It is complete and utter chaos...about two-thirds of which is elective (poor decisions on my wife and my part). Kids running in and out of here without any advanced warning/notice. My wife planning for her next ____________ that will make us about $6/hour (when she's sacrificing time at our company that would be paying her over $25/hour). My wife running off to 4-5 committees she serves on, having a "trip to pick up our oldest at a friends house" turn into an unplanned 90-minute chat with the other girl's mom while our youngest asks "where's Mom?" about 80 times in the interim, "just in time delivery" of any/all responsibilities she has for our family, etc. Or late more often then not...such as knowing for two days that we're getting low on milk or toilet paper, only to wait until it runs out and tell me at 6:30-7:00pm that she needs to run to the grocery store. Which really means getting home around 8:00pm after seeing a friend in the store and shooting the bull...with me left to deal with getting our girls ready for bed (though they won't go to bed until Mom gets home to ready stories and snuggle). Etc, etc, etc.
I've had enough. If it were occasional chaos, I could accept it. But the only break I get from the looney bin is when I'm not home or when they're not home. I love my girls to death, but this is a HIGHLY unhealthy environment for me to live in. Particularly since I struggle with chronic migraines, and need quiet/calm to function without feeling like my skull is trying to give birth to a baseball.and this'datonn said:Now, when this thread is finally moving away from your rants about her, you feel compelled to interject them again.It appears that you don't want your life to change- or you would do more to change it. It seems like you just want to remain in comfortable misery and complain.'datonn said:
Yep. The past couple weeks in particular, I've basically drew my line in the sand and said enough. She had her sister over this weekend and blew up the past 48 hours (7 years) of our schedule for things that *she* wanted to do for her (not us), so after she was done and making dinner, I just headed out to the disc golf course for 42 holes by myself. Told her if she's not going to treat me with respect related to us and our schedule/calendar, then #### it. I'll take care of me...even if she feels disrespected and unappreciated in the process. And if she threatens to kick me out or asks for a divorce, she'll get her wish. No more being treated like a dog. I get treated with respect, or I'll gladly find another place to live.
I hear you. The only reason I brought it up (again) after Mrs. BSR's post was that guys from the FFA PM/IM me pretty regularly asking how stuff is going...saying that they are going through similar things in their marriages, but don't want to be the whipping boy from the FFA jury of our peers.
So me posting stuff, albeit WAY too long (sorry) is apparently helping a few people sort some things out in their own lives too. So if I've got to annoy a few people to help a few other people who've been going through the hell I've gone through these several years, I'll gladly take what guys have to dish out.
How's that been working out? What is her response to the situation. Also, you mentioned you work from home. Is there a way to work somewhere else? it seems like she see the fact that you are at home as a reason to pass the buck onto you. I would suggest trying to work somewhere else. That way your daughters play dates don't interfere with your work and she can take the younger daughter with her to more places. That and stop cleaning up after everyone and stop doing your wifes laundry. There is no reason a stay at home mom shouldn't be able to handle the basic household stuff. I have a full time job and still manage that ####.
Really? Because dinner was delayed 30 to 40 minutes? I've supported him up to this point 100%, but I have to say that I think he expects too much of a structured lifestyle.You need to ask yourself are you the man in this relationship or is she? Sit down and tell her you are both going to scale back this insane schedule and no you don't have to accept the current one. She doesn't get to make unilateral decisions. If she doesn't agree tell her shell need to learn to like it cause this insane schedule is no longer. You need alone time with her and the kids need to learn that life isn't 24/7 activity. If you let your wife have the #### and balls in the relationship it's doomed and deep down she wants you to be the man and take charge so don't let her.Can't speak for Bogart, but this is when it really started going South in my marriage. When my wife would start lying to me and/or hiding things from me she knew I wouldn't like. Then (worse) trying to take advantage of the fact that I've had some recent migraine issues and some other issues in my head that are causing a bit of occasional short-term memory loss. A la her telling me that she wasn't ____________, only to have me ask what she's doing and have her say "Oh, we talked about that...you said you were okay with __________," which was complete fiction. Nothing terribly serious, but lying to me (then finally coming clean about lying to me about it after I wouldn't let her off the hook) has really eroded trust in our relationship.The thing with my wife is that she wants to schedule herself and our kids into 1,001 activities. Some not costing money, others costing money, but ALL of them costing precious time. Time we could have as a family of four. Time we could have as a couple. She says that's normal, and that I'd better get used to it. Maybe I was an outlier as a kid, but my oldest daughter (8) has probably already been in more stuff and had more sleep overs, home and away, then I had before leaving for college. It just feels as though our calendars are kept insanely busy so that we don't have to deal with the harsh, empty condition of our relationship. And any time I voice my displeasure/concern for how crazy our schedules are? Well, I'm being unreasonable...and I need to change.
Take this week, as a typical example:
Monday: My daughter comes home after school with three of her friends. Unannounced/unplanned. Mind you, I work from home, so four 8 year old girls doing what eight year old girls do is a distraction/disruption at work, to say the least! My wife then is busy doing God knows what, and we eat dinner about 45 minutes late. My daughter's friends are back knocking on our front door asking if she can go over to the park and play before we're even finished with dinner, then they end up running around in our yard scattering toys, litter, ??? until about 8:30pm (about 45 minutes after our girls are supposed to be in bed, on a school night).
Tuesday: See Monday. Only instead of three friends, it was one friend. We eat 30-45 minutes late (again), and then 4-5 of my daughter's friends are banging on the door after dinner. With our girls getting to bed around 8:30pm. With our youngest crying and yelling because the "big girls" don't want to include her. AGAIN, on a school night.
Wednesday. Last day of school...so my daughter comes home, friend in-tow, around lunch time. We then go to a preschool graduation for my youngest, which runs into dinner (5:30pm). My wife understandably doesn't feel like cooking, so she runs to Subway to buy us all dinner while I take our youngest home to change her clothes and get ready to play outside. We then drive over to an area park with dinner, eat until about 6:45pm, then my wife tells me that she needs to leave to take my oldest to a bonfire at her friend's house (unscheduled, and first I've heard of it). Okay...I entertain my youngest while she's gone, then we head home when she gets back. Around 7:15pm or so. She then says she wants to take our youngest out for ice cream, with me staying home until our oldest shows up. About 8:45pm, my oldest rumbles in and we play at the park across the street until after 9:00pm when my wife and youngest finally get home. My oldest asks where they were, and proceeds to melt-down after being told that they went out for ice cream (without her). Chernobyl would have been proud! Dealing with that until about 9:45pm. Mind you, I generally am supposed to be back at work by around 8:00pm each evening.
Thursday. Oldest and youngest go to daycare (thank God...an actual 8-hour block without pre-teen XX chromosomes running around yelling and crying while I'm trying to pay the bills). Wife wastes a good chunk of the day getting ready for a garage sale and an open house that she and her sister had planned for Saturday...which takes about 10 hours to prep for and maybe 2-3 hours to clean up after, as well as a good 8-10 hours to operate, all for MAYBE $100-$200 net? We eat dinner about 20 minutes late, AGAIN, and then she says "oh...I need to _______________" to get ready for this weekend's bull####, and I'm busy trying to do all the picking up/dishes and keeping the girls from killing one another. The girls end up getting to bed 30-45 minutes late...AGAIN, which means I'm late getting back to work.
Friday. Wife wastes more time getting ready for the Open House, as well as the garage sale that she's taken our stuff to sell (which she promised last Summer she/we would never do again). About 6pm, after eating late (again), my sister-in-law and niece rumble in for tomorrow's Open House. They are loud, and don't keep anything close to a "normal" schedule. So...my kids are up until well past 11pm doing whatever they're doing...making a racket while I'm trying to pay the bills.
Saturday. Both kids get up at a normal time, but are noticeably crabby after being 2-3+ hours short on sleep from the night before. Basically, they've been yelling, pounding on the piano, leaving 50 messes in their wake, etc. all day...while I try and do some yard work and keep the house from looking like an episode of Hoarders. Did I mention the Open House was at our house...and that it basically completely took over the entire first floor of our home? So after making their $100-$200 (net), it'll take hours getting everything back together...while the girls get crabbier and more tired.
Sunday (tomorrow). Who knows...but if it's typical, girls will be in each other's hair half the day, we'll eat dinner 30-45 minutes late, and they'll get to bed 30-45+ minutes after they're supposed to. On top of the two hours I'll spend on laundry and cleaning/organization (like I do most every day) and the 12-14 hours I'll spend getting a jump on the coming week to keep food on the table.
This is a typical week for our family. It is complete and utter chaos...about two-thirds of which is elective (poor decisions on my wife and my part). Kids running in and out of here without any advanced warning/notice. My wife planning for her next ____________ that will make us about $6/hour (when she's sacrificing time at our company that would be paying her over $25/hour). My wife running off to 4-5 committees she serves on, having a "trip to pick up our oldest at a friends house" turn into an unplanned 90-minute chat with the other girl's mom while our youngest asks "where's Mom?" about 80 times in the interim, "just in time delivery" of any/all responsibilities she has for our family, etc. Or late more often then not...such as knowing for two days that we're getting low on milk or toilet paper, only to wait until it runs out and tell me at 6:30-7:00pm that she needs to run to the grocery store. Which really means getting home around 8:00pm after seeing a friend in the store and shooting the bull...with me left to deal with getting our girls ready for bed (though they won't go to bed until Mom gets home to ready stories and snuggle). Etc, etc, etc.
I've had enough. If it were occasional chaos, I could accept it. But the only break I get from the looney bin is when I'm not home or when they're not home. I love my girls to death, but this is a HIGHLY unhealthy environment for me to live in. Particularly since I struggle with chronic migraines, and need quiet/calm to function without feeling like my skull is trying to give birth to a baseball.
Response to the situation?! Pretty much avoidance. She'll make sure I know there is steam coming out of her ears...but she'll do just about anything to avoid the conversation(s).I'd love to work away from home if we could afford it. Problem is, we can't afford it. Our business is doing well, but taking on a lease on top of all of our other expenses associated with what we're trying to do at the moment would put the company at greater risk if things should take a down-turn.'iamsmilin said:
My wife won't get my back with that stuff though...as she's as bad as they are (dirty clothes, dirty dishes, heck...used Kleenexes just tossed on the floor, when a waste basket is three feet away!). It's maddening. Heck, I probably know how 90% of women feel...being married to slobs. Ha!Getting WAY off-topic, but do you have kids?! I'm just curious, because with kids, structure is everything. Consistent rules and expectations. Having them get up at the same time, go to school/daycare at the same time, eat meals at the same time, go to bed at the same time. Get them out of that structure (or no structure becomes the "structure") and there are consequences. Not the least of which is sleep habits/patterns that are shot to heck. And if the kids aren't sleeping on a routine, you won't/don't have any time as a couple between the kids' bedtime and the time you fall asleep. That, and you will very-quickly become sleep deprived yourself...which will have significant consequences down the line as well.So while being 30-45 minutes late on a meal seems like no big deal, it upsets that whole cycle/routine. You gotta roll with the punches! However, when a lack of routine becomes the norm (most meals are happening late, and compressing the precious-little time that had been carved out between work, meal and work to have a couple hours to play and have fun with your girls), and/or when your kids are having their sleep (time and quantity) disrupted, it equals big trouble.'urbanhack said:
Yeah, I never understand why my hubby will put a dirty cup on the stove when the sink is two feet to the left. I get it, I hate mess too. But you have to make a stand. She'll buckle when everyone but her has clean clothes. Change the girls schedule, have them start to clean their stuff up before they go to bed or out to the park with their friends. It shouldn't matter if she has your back.Response to the situation?! Pretty much avoidance. She'll make sure I know there is steam coming out of her ears...but she'll do just about anything to avoid the conversation(s).I'd love to work away from home if we could afford it. Problem is, we can't afford it. Our business is doing well, but taking on a lease on top of all of our other expenses associated with what we're trying to do at the moment would put the company at greater risk if things should take a down-turn.'iamsmilin said:
I hate piles of #### lying all around the house! Living that way would seriously make me want to leave! I know I should just stop doing as much of that stuff...but if I don't do it? It just sits there...driving me crazy. I work to get my daughters in on the act too. i.e. Daughters ask "Daddy, can you take us to the pool?" Daddy says "If you get your rooms picked up, take your dirty clothes to the laundry, and pick up the toys in the living room, I'll take you to the pool." And it's "amazing" how quickly things get picked up.
Thanks for the thoughts and questions. That comment by her was the one that stuck out to me more than any others. IMO, it put all the responsibility on me and off her, like I have been doing something wrong this whole time. I will be honest, we haven't discussed much about the session since the session. I started a few conversations, and she shut them down almost immediately. So, I have just been pissed off the last few days anytime she is in the room. She has gone back into her routine like nothing is going on. My first question in our next session will involve that comment of "just love me." The second question will be ideas of things for us to do inbetween sessions.Went and had lunch with a friend of mine today and filled him in on my situation. The thing I came out of our almost 3 hour conversation is that if I could find a single thing in our relationship that is strong, I could build on that. And there was nothing outside of the kids that I can find that we do really good, or even kinda good, together. The sex life isn't there, we don't see eye to eye on finances, parenting, etc. She has pushed away all of my family. The reasons to stay just aren't there.I still read anything new that comes up here, and will be more than happy to answer questions, or comment on statements made my way, but I don't want this to be a broken record of my moaning and #####ing for the foreseeable future, so I won't be posting as much until something significant happens.'Mrs. BSR said:
Not to sound #####y myself but I think you need to keep on her until she answers your questions. She doesn't get to put the blame on you and then get to not answer any questions or sink back into herself. Sorry. She agreed to go to counseling so she should be expected to talk outside of counseling.
I agree. The fact that she doesn't want to tell me what happened in her past to make her lose interest in sex, or how close our situation was to her first marriage ending, and now doesn't want to talk between sessions speaks volumes to me. She is truly living in a fantasy world where she can have the "perfect" marriage/family that she can post on Facebook and show off at church on Sunday, without doing any of the work to actually make it happy.
Moved my office to the third floor of the house a few years ago. Helps, but still have to deal with a lot of noise and disruptions from below (tough, with chronic migraines). I hear you on the girls and chores too. Like I mentioned in my other post though, consistency is important...and if my wife doesn't have my back on that one, and she's doing 80+ percent of the child care while I'm paying the bills and cleaning up around the house, it sends the kids mixed messages (to put it mildly).Although to urbanhack, I DID coincidentally spend the afternoon in the garage today. Not lifting weights and visiting Mary Jane, but putting some new shelves together.
She needs a rude awakening. She needs to know she is not going to crawl back into herself and if she truly wants the "perfect" marriage, she needs to get her ### moving and work with you on it. She should be able to tell you, her husband and partner, about things in her past. There is no excuse. You are there as a shoulder to cry on, a sounding board, just as she should be that for you.Take her for a walk through the neighborhood or something. Don't let her say she doesn't want to. Tell her she has to talk to you to make this marriage work as this is beyond sexual dysfunction or disinterest. She needs to know that not talking about things isn't going to make the problems go away.
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Nice way to dodge the issue and paint a martyr complex on yourself. Nothing personal, but the OPs points still stand loud and clear.'datonn said:I hear you. The only reason I brought it up (again) after Mrs. BSR's post was that guys from the FFA PM/IM me pretty regularly asking how stuff is going...saying that they are going through similar things in their marriages, but don't want to be the whipping boy from the FFA jury of our peers.'Possum said:
Yes, really'urbanhack said:Really? Because dinner was delayed 30 to 40 minutes? I've supported him up to this point 100%, but I have to say that I think he expects too much of a structured lifestyle.'Walton Goggins said:You need to ask yourself are you the man in this relationship or is she? Sit down and tell her you are both going to scale back this insane schedule and no you don't have to accept the current one. She doesn't get to make unilateral decisions. If she doesn't agree tell her shell need to learn to like it cause this insane schedule is no longer. You need alone time with her and the kids need to learn that life isn't 24/7 activity. If you let your wife have the #### and balls in the relationship it's doomed and deep down she wants you to be the man and take charge so don't let her.'datonn said:Can't speak for Bogart, but this is when it really started going South in my marriage. When my wife would start lying to me and/or hiding things from me she knew I wouldn't like. Then (worse) trying to take advantage of the fact that I've had some recent migraine issues and some other issues in my head that are causing a bit of occasional short-term memory loss. A la her telling me that she wasn't ____________, only to have me ask what she's doing and have her say "Oh, we talked about that...you said you were okay with __________," which was complete fiction. Nothing terribly serious, but lying to me (then finally coming clean about lying to me about it after I wouldn't let her off the hook) has really eroded trust in our relationship.The thing with my wife is that she wants to schedule herself and our kids into 1,001 activities. Some not costing money, others costing money, but ALL of them costing precious time. Time we could have as a family of four. Time we could have as a couple. She says that's normal, and that I'd better get used to it. Maybe I was an outlier as a kid, but my oldest daughter (8) has probably already been in more stuff and had more sleep overs, home and away, then I had before leaving for college. It just feels as though our calendars are kept insanely busy so that we don't have to deal with the harsh, empty condition of our relationship. And any time I voice my displeasure/concern for how crazy our schedules are? Well, I'm being unreasonable...and I need to change.'Mrs. BSR said:
Take this week, as a typical example:
Monday: My daughter comes home after school with three of her friends. Unannounced/unplanned. Mind you, I work from home, so four 8 year old girls doing what eight year old girls do is a distraction/disruption at work, to say the least! My wife then is busy doing God knows what, and we eat dinner about 45 minutes late. My daughter's friends are back knocking on our front door asking if she can go over to the park and play before we're even finished with dinner, then they end up running around in our yard scattering toys, litter, ??? until about 8:30pm (about 45 minutes after our girls are supposed to be in bed, on a school night).
Tuesday: See Monday. Only instead of three friends, it was one friend. We eat 30-45 minutes late (again), and then 4-5 of my daughter's friends are banging on the door after dinner. With our girls getting to bed around 8:30pm. With our youngest crying and yelling because the "big girls" don't want to include her. AGAIN, on a school night.
Wednesday. Last day of school...so my daughter comes home, friend in-tow, around lunch time. We then go to a preschool graduation for my youngest, which runs into dinner (5:30pm). My wife understandably doesn't feel like cooking, so she runs to Subway to buy us all dinner while I take our youngest home to change her clothes and get ready to play outside. We then drive over to an area park with dinner, eat until about 6:45pm, then my wife tells me that she needs to leave to take my oldest to a bonfire at her friend's house (unscheduled, and first I've heard of it). Okay...I entertain my youngest while she's gone, then we head home when she gets back. Around 7:15pm or so. She then says she wants to take our youngest out for ice cream, with me staying home until our oldest shows up. About 8:45pm, my oldest rumbles in and we play at the park across the street until after 9:00pm when my wife and youngest finally get home. My oldest asks where they were, and proceeds to melt-down after being told that they went out for ice cream (without her). Chernobyl would have been proud! Dealing with that until about 9:45pm. Mind you, I generally am supposed to be back at work by around 8:00pm each evening.
Thursday. Oldest and youngest go to daycare (thank God...an actual 8-hour block without pre-teen XX chromosomes running around yelling and crying while I'm trying to pay the bills). Wife wastes a good chunk of the day getting ready for a garage sale and an open house that she and her sister had planned for Saturday...which takes about 10 hours to prep for and maybe 2-3 hours to clean up after, as well as a good 8-10 hours to operate, all for MAYBE $100-$200 net? We eat dinner about 20 minutes late, AGAIN, and then she says "oh...I need to _______________" to get ready for this weekend's bull####, and I'm busy trying to do all the picking up/dishes and keeping the girls from killing one another. The girls end up getting to bed 30-45 minutes late...AGAIN, which means I'm late getting back to work.
Friday. Wife wastes more time getting ready for the Open House, as well as the garage sale that she's taken our stuff to sell (which she promised last Summer she/we would never do again). About 6pm, after eating late (again), my sister-in-law and niece rumble in for tomorrow's Open House. They are loud, and don't keep anything close to a "normal" schedule. So...my kids are up until well past 11pm doing whatever they're doing...making a racket while I'm trying to pay the bills.
Saturday. Both kids get up at a normal time, but are noticeably crabby after being 2-3+ hours short on sleep from the night before. Basically, they've been yelling, pounding on the piano, leaving 50 messes in their wake, etc. all day...while I try and do some yard work and keep the house from looking like an episode of Hoarders. Did I mention the Open House was at our house...and that it basically completely took over the entire first floor of our home? So after making their $100-$200 (net), it'll take hours getting everything back together...while the girls get crabbier and more tired.
Sunday (tomorrow). Who knows...but if it's typical, girls will be in each other's hair half the day, we'll eat dinner 30-45 minutes late, and they'll get to bed 30-45+ minutes after they're supposed to. On top of the two hours I'll spend on laundry and cleaning/organization (like I do most every day) and the 12-14 hours I'll spend getting a jump on the coming week to keep food on the table.
This is a typical week for our family. It is complete and utter chaos...about two-thirds of which is elective (poor decisions on my wife and my part). Kids running in and out of here without any advanced warning/notice. My wife planning for her next ____________ that will make us about $6/hour (when she's sacrificing time at our company that would be paying her over $25/hour). My wife running off to 4-5 committees she serves on, having a "trip to pick up our oldest at a friends house" turn into an unplanned 90-minute chat with the other girl's mom while our youngest asks "where's Mom?" about 80 times in the interim, "just in time delivery" of any/all responsibilities she has for our family, etc. Or late more often then not...such as knowing for two days that we're getting low on milk or toilet paper, only to wait until it runs out and tell me at 6:30-7:00pm that she needs to run to the grocery store. Which really means getting home around 8:00pm after seeing a friend in the store and shooting the bull...with me left to deal with getting our girls ready for bed (though they won't go to bed until Mom gets home to ready stories and snuggle). Etc, etc, etc.
I've had enough. If it were occasional chaos, I could accept it. But the only break I get from the looney bin is when I'm not home or when they're not home. I love my girls to death, but this is a HIGHLY unhealthy environment for me to live in. Particularly since I struggle with chronic migraines, and need quiet/calm to function without feeling like my skull is trying to give birth to a baseball.
'urbanhack said:Really? Because dinner was delayed 30 to 40 minutes? I've supported him up to this point 100%, but I have to say that I think he expects too much of a structured lifestyle.'Walton Goggins said:You need to ask yourself are you the man in this relationship or is she? Sit down and tell her you are both going to scale back this insane schedule and no you don't have to accept the current one. She doesn't get to make unilateral decisions. If she doesn't agree tell her shell need to learn to like it cause this insane schedule is no longer. You need alone time with her and the kids need to learn that life isn't 24/7 activity. If you let your wife have the #### and balls in the relationship it's doomed and deep down she wants you to be the man and take charge so don't let her.'datonn said:Can't speak for Bogart, but this is when it really started going South in my marriage. When my wife would start lying to me and/or hiding things from me she knew I wouldn't like. Then (worse) trying to take advantage of the fact that I've had some recent migraine issues and some other issues in my head that are causing a bit of occasional short-term memory loss. A la her telling me that she wasn't ____________, only to have me ask what she's doing and have her say "Oh, we talked about that...you said you were okay with __________," which was complete fiction. Nothing terribly serious, but lying to me (then finally coming clean about lying to me about it after I wouldn't let her off the hook) has really eroded trust in our relationship.The thing with my wife is that she wants to schedule herself and our kids into 1,001 activities. Some not costing money, others costing money, but ALL of them costing precious time. Time we could have as a family of four. Time we could have as a couple. She says that's normal, and that I'd better get used to it. Maybe I was an outlier as a kid, but my oldest daughter (8) has probably already been in more stuff and had more sleep overs, home and away, then I had before leaving for college. It just feels as though our calendars are kept insanely busy so that we don't have to deal with the harsh, empty condition of our relationship. And any time I voice my displeasure/concern for how crazy our schedules are? Well, I'm being unreasonable...and I need to change.'Mrs. BSR said:
Take this week, as a typical example:
Monday: My daughter comes home after school with three of her friends. Unannounced/unplanned. Mind you, I work from home, so four 8 year old girls doing what eight year old girls do is a distraction/disruption at work, to say the least! My wife then is busy doing God knows what, and we eat dinner about 45 minutes late. My daughter's friends are back knocking on our front door asking if she can go over to the park and play before we're even finished with dinner, then they end up running around in our yard scattering toys, litter, ??? until about 8:30pm (about 45 minutes after our girls are supposed to be in bed, on a school night).
Tuesday: See Monday. Only instead of three friends, it was one friend. We eat 30-45 minutes late (again), and then 4-5 of my daughter's friends are banging on the door after dinner. With our girls getting to bed around 8:30pm. With our youngest crying and yelling because the "big girls" don't want to include her. AGAIN, on a school night.
Wednesday. Last day of school...so my daughter comes home, friend in-tow, around lunch time. We then go to a preschool graduation for my youngest, which runs into dinner (5:30pm). My wife understandably doesn't feel like cooking, so she runs to Subway to buy us all dinner while I take our youngest home to change her clothes and get ready to play outside. We then drive over to an area park with dinner, eat until about 6:45pm, then my wife tells me that she needs to leave to take my oldest to a bonfire at her friend's house (unscheduled, and first I've heard of it). Okay...I entertain my youngest while she's gone, then we head home when she gets back. Around 7:15pm or so. She then says she wants to take our youngest out for ice cream, with me staying home until our oldest shows up. About 8:45pm, my oldest rumbles in and we play at the park across the street until after 9:00pm when my wife and youngest finally get home. My oldest asks where they were, and proceeds to melt-down after being told that they went out for ice cream (without her). Chernobyl would have been proud! Dealing with that until about 9:45pm. Mind you, I generally am supposed to be back at work by around 8:00pm each evening.
Thursday. Oldest and youngest go to daycare (thank God...an actual 8-hour block without pre-teen XX chromosomes running around yelling and crying while I'm trying to pay the bills). Wife wastes a good chunk of the day getting ready for a garage sale and an open house that she and her sister had planned for Saturday...which takes about 10 hours to prep for and maybe 2-3 hours to clean up after, as well as a good 8-10 hours to operate, all for MAYBE $100-$200 net? We eat dinner about 20 minutes late, AGAIN, and then she says "oh...I need to _______________" to get ready for this weekend's bull####, and I'm busy trying to do all the picking up/dishes and keeping the girls from killing one another. The girls end up getting to bed 30-45 minutes late...AGAIN, which means I'm late getting back to work.
Friday. Wife wastes more time getting ready for the Open House, as well as the garage sale that she's taken our stuff to sell (which she promised last Summer she/we would never do again). About 6pm, after eating late (again), my sister-in-law and niece rumble in for tomorrow's Open House. They are loud, and don't keep anything close to a "normal" schedule. So...my kids are up until well past 11pm doing whatever they're doing...making a racket while I'm trying to pay the bills.
Saturday. Both kids get up at a normal time, but are noticeably crabby after being 2-3+ hours short on sleep from the night before. Basically, they've been yelling, pounding on the piano, leaving 50 messes in their wake, etc. all day...while I try and do some yard work and keep the house from looking like an episode of Hoarders. Did I mention the Open House was at our house...and that it basically completely took over the entire first floor of our home? So after making their $100-$200 (net), it'll take hours getting everything back together...while the girls get crabbier and more tired.
Sunday (tomorrow). Who knows...but if it's typical, girls will be in each other's hair half the day, we'll eat dinner 30-45 minutes late, and they'll get to bed 30-45+ minutes after they're supposed to. On top of the two hours I'll spend on laundry and cleaning/organization (like I do most every day) and the 12-14 hours I'll spend getting a jump on the coming week to keep food on the table.
This is a typical week for our family. It is complete and utter chaos...about two-thirds of which is elective (poor decisions on my wife and my part). Kids running in and out of here without any advanced warning/notice. My wife planning for her next ____________ that will make us about $6/hour (when she's sacrificing time at our company that would be paying her over $25/hour). My wife running off to 4-5 committees she serves on, having a "trip to pick up our oldest at a friends house" turn into an unplanned 90-minute chat with the other girl's mom while our youngest asks "where's Mom?" about 80 times in the interim, "just in time delivery" of any/all responsibilities she has for our family, etc. Or late more often then not...such as knowing for two days that we're getting low on milk or toilet paper, only to wait until it runs out and tell me at 6:30-7:00pm that she needs to run to the grocery store. Which really means getting home around 8:00pm after seeing a friend in the store and shooting the bull...with me left to deal with getting our girls ready for bed (though they won't go to bed until Mom gets home to ready stories and snuggle). Etc, etc, etc.
I've had enough. If it were occasional chaos, I could accept it. But the only break I get from the looney bin is when I'm not home or when they're not home. I love my girls to death, but this is a HIGHLY unhealthy environment for me to live in. Particularly since I struggle with chronic migraines, and need quiet/calm to function without feeling like my skull is trying to give birth to a baseball.
The whole week seemed hectic and honestly pretty normal for a family with a couple young kids. Especially when the father works long hours.I agree. I have three kids in several activities, and we're on the go more than this. My wife is fully engaged though, so I don't necessarily have the same set of problems. That said, everyone has a different tolerance level for the chaos. I've had to work very hard to "get used to it", as I was an only child and I didn't grow up with all of these competing activities.
That's a large part of the tension (which leads back to "sexual tension"). My wife grew up in-town with four brothers and sisters...and their front door, fridge and __________ was a turnstile for all their friends after school. My MIL was also involved in about 20 activities at school/church, and was a volunteer emergency responder as well. That's the blueprint my wife knows for being a wife/mom, the model she sees as "normal." I grew up basically on my grandparents farm, six miles from anywhere. Just me and my sister, and my time was basically spent doing chores, playing with our dogs, and entertaining myself. I was allowed to participate in sports in high school, but I rarely had friends over and rarely stayed over at friends' houses, much less see many of my friends during Summer...since I was busy with 240 acres of cutting/raking/bailing hay. That was normal to me.And that's the rub. My wife is trying to replicate her childhood with our kids...which to me feels like an F5 tornado (not to mention how expensive it can get, and how little time it leaves for us to be a couple). Every time I tell my wife "it's too much," she indirectly accuses me of wanting to deprive the kids (like she feels I was deprived growing up). That's not what I'm saying. I'm asking for LESS, not NONE. But that's what she uses to shut any attempts I make to just have "less" off before they get rolling.What's funny (not funny, more sad I guess) is that my wife knows that her parents nearly divorced while she was a child. Why? Because her Dad was two-steps away from being institutionalized (exaggerating here, but you get the idea) from all the extra/unnecessary chaos surrounding their already busy lives. She wouldn't have any time for him, because she was too busy chasing after 5 kids, 10 friends, running off to 5-6 volunteer things/week, et al. Yet my wife cannot see/make the connection between me being unhappy and her dad/parents being unhappy. Rather, *I* (and my upbringing) am the problem.I agree. I have three kids in several activities, and we're on the go more than this. My wife is fully engaged though, so I don't necessarily have the same set of problems. That said, everyone has a different tolerance level for the chaos. I've had to work very hard to "get used to it", as I was an only child and I didn't grow up with all of these competing activities.
The whole week seemed hectic and honestly pretty normal for a family with a couple young kids. Especially when the father works long hours.
link?
I'm a troll because I dare to question the methods he is promoting in his book? This guys is super-neato.
Hmm. It looks like he just reposted from the thread.
