On The Rocks
Footballguy
Wilbon is becoming more and more like Keith Olberman. Saying the most outrageous stuff to bring attention to himself.
They are both attention whores.
They are both attention whores.
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Wilbon calling Vince Young a "punk" (1 Viewer)
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BigJim®
Footballguy
Listen, I've always been a fan of Wilbon. I agree he is one of the few people on ESPN I've enjoyed watching. That said, this was the sort of situation that turns my stomach. This is not like an analyst saying a player I like is overrated on the field or typical ball washing/crotch nuzzling of a Favre type- the sort of thing that mildly annoys. Pulling the 'black must support black or they will be publicly ostracized by me' is a credibility killer IMHO. It's unfortunate that a guy as good as Wilbon would throw his own credibility under a bus to blindly support McNabb at any cost, but it will impact how I view this guy going forward.
FFdork
Footballguy
You know it's fine if people don't like Wilbon, but indignant responses about his journalistic standards in reference to what he said on a T.V. show that has a primary goal of entertainment are kind of ridiculous to me. I don't read his columns, but even there isn't his whole job to express an opinion? He's not a beat reporter to my knowledge. He's certainly not an investigative reporter. Where is all the outrage about Jim Rome (along with about 1000 other columnists, radio hosts and TV personalities) and his journalistic standards?
If you disagree with his opinion on this issue, to me that's part of the appeal of the show. My friend and I have debates sparked by the PTI topics all the time.
Finally, I know the race card thing gets old sometimes. There are certainly plenty of times that it gets played where it has nothing to do with the issue at hand IMO. However, race is still a huge issue in the U.S. If you don't think race is a factor when it comes to how quarterbacks are perceived, IMO you're sticking your head in the sand. Yes there has been much progress. However, if you live in a city where the QB of your local pro or college team happens to be black, listen to the call in show after games to see what I mean. For this exercise to work, you have to be able to be objective about said QB's play.
If you disagree with his opinion on this issue, to me that's part of the appeal of the show. My friend and I have debates sparked by the PTI topics all the time.
Finally, I know the race card thing gets old sometimes. There are certainly plenty of times that it gets played where it has nothing to do with the issue at hand IMO. However, race is still a huge issue in the U.S. If you don't think race is a factor when it comes to how quarterbacks are perceived, IMO you're sticking your head in the sand. Yes there has been much progress. However, if you live in a city where the QB of your local pro or college team happens to be black, listen to the call in show after games to see what I mean. For this exercise to work, you have to be able to be objective about said QB's play.
fatness
Footballguy
I've followed Wilbon for over 10 years, and it certainly doesn't kill his credibility for me. I just disagree with him on it, nothing more.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I like Wilbon because he does have a good deal of actual insider knowledge. He calls a lot of people idiots and he's right most of the time. He's not right here, but he'll probably make amends for this over the coming months if he realizes (which I'm sure he will) that he spoke too soon. We all get emotional when people dog our closest friends but Wilbon does have to put that aside in his work. Sometimes he doesn’t and he comes off as funny and justified. This time he came off as ignorant in supporting his very ignorant friend.
BigJim®
Footballguy
To each his own. If he had some social commentary to offer on this topic that I simply disagreed with, that would be one thing. To refer Vince Young as a "punk" is quite different IMHO. It's hitting below the belt to bully a guy into carrying water for McNabb, and it's well over the line for a casual observer to the situation like me.
snarfsnarf
Footballguy
... give a black man a chance :kanye:
the hairy scotsman
Footballguy
Exactly...McNabb's says, in essence, "I am mistreated"...then VY responds with "we are trying to go to the playoffs and we can't worry about all the other mess going on''...then Wilbon say Young is the self-absorbed one?Wilbon just shows yet again what a freaking idiot he is.Self-absorbed?The "punk" is leading his team, more concerned about his team than some overanalyzed media circus, his actions have spoked very loudly that he is a team-first player and leader. If VY is self-absorbed, I wish we had more self-absorbed people in this world. I am a huge fan of VY, so I'll take everything he says in the best light, but even if I hated the kid, I'd disagree with Wilbon here.
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Statorama
Footballguy
That's weird, I think he's Steve Young all over again.
the hairy scotsman
Footballguy
LOL...ok...you're dq'd.Quick release?
He has it.
Reads?
He was making 'em. You just didn't notice or watch. Contrary to popular (and Merril Hoge's) belief, the offense he ran in college was not a "one-read" offense (and even that is more reads than most people give him credit for).
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sho nuff
Footballguy
Umm...the offense in Texas was based on him reading the defense.Watch him now...he uses his athletic ability to escape pressure (never thought that was a bad thing)...but his first look is still to throw the ball than run.He has quick reads and releases it when he needs to...but Id rather have a guy that can get out of a possible sack and still make a play than a stone back there.
the hairy scotsman
Footballguy
Regardless of any good MW may or may not have done for ESPN (which sucks) in the past, why should we not rail on him for this ridiculous act?
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Wilbon went overboard on this, but for years he's been railing against young players not recognizing their elders. He reached for that connection here & whiffed. Most of the time he's dead-on about it, but not yesterday - at least not with the evidence he had.
I think both Young's & Campbell's responses were fine. This also doesn't lessen my enjoyment of Wilbon, but now he's got to deal with whatever ramifications there are to what he said. That's life in the big city.
I think both Young's & Campbell's responses were fine. This also doesn't lessen my enjoyment of Wilbon, but now he's got to deal with whatever ramifications there are to what he said. That's life in the big city.
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
scoobygang
Footballguy
Wilbon is a sportwriter. Manufactured outrage is his job.
Getting pissed because a sportstalk personality says something stupid makes as much sense as getting upset because a fish is wet.
And I say this as someone who has no problems with anything McNabb or Young has said (I also had no problems with Limbaugh's comments).
Getting pissed because a sportstalk personality says something stupid makes as much sense as getting upset because a fish is wet.
And I say this as someone who has no problems with anything McNabb or Young has said (I also had no problems with Limbaugh's comments).
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
Excellent analogy. I said pre-draft that the low side was Mark Brunnell and the high side was Steve Young / John Elway. Long way to go, but he looks more like the latter then the former.
Weapon of Mass Instruction
Watch my feet!
Vick led his team to a National Championship and led the nation in passing efficiency? Man, I didn't remember that.By the way, anyone realize that VY had a better QB rating than Manning last week?
Weapon of Mass Instruction
Watch my feet!
This is a salient observation, and something that many could emulate.
TitusIII
Footballguy
They also understand that being a punk and refusing to answer any question that could possibly offend a person is bad for their image. It is what it is, if Vince Young wants to take that road, so be it...I certainly don't respect him for it, but it matters not, he is a fine QB...
He's not an idiot but he does seem to be over sensitive when the race issue is brought up and he does sound like a broken record when he's speaking to it.Someone else mentioned Mike Vick is like VY.......that's an ignorant statement. There is no reason Mike Vick should be compared to VY unless you're only talking about skin color.
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
Yeah, it was 95.3 to 86.6. Young still has serious holes in his game with regards to passing. I have a feeling you will see his rating closer to 47.9 ratings (1st game) than 95.3 (2nd game), until he improves. So far he has a 67.8 rating through 17 games, but I expect that to improve over time.Weapon of Mass Instruction said:
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burd
Footballguy
why does Wilbon think that VY is obligated to talk about McNabb's comments because he's another black QB?If VY's got an opinion on the subject .. fine. Tell us all about it if you want to. But VY or any other player shouldn't feel obligated to talk about a subject that he either doesn't feel comfortable talking about or doesn't really care about. Wilbon is just another attention-whore reporter who love bringing race into their reporting because of the sensationalism of the subject. I think that except for a small percentage of people on either side of the arguement, the rest of us are really tired of race comments taking precident over real sporting news. if I want to hear about racial tension, i'll check CNN or FoxNews. But idiots like Wilbon (and many many others) need to stoke the fires every now and then to stay relevant. it's a sad state of affairs in this country when stories about OJ and Paris Hilton are more important than the war in Iraq or suffering in New Orleans, etc. Alright ... i'm grudgingly stepping off my soap-box
Rhino
Footballguy
I've never been a big Vince Young fan, but if he really said this then I like the guy a Hell of a lot more now. He really hits the nail ont he head here - playing QB in the NFL means you're under a microscope 24/7 - regardless what your skin color is. If McNabb hasn't learned that by now he never will.As for Wilbon... I've always liked the guy and generally thought his takes were better than Kornheiser's when I'd watch PTI. But lately Wilbon seems to be playing the race card more frequently. If you recall, it was Wilbon who came out and wrote the article about Ronny Thompson and the whole debacle over his dismisal from Ball State. Wilbon basically blasted Ball State for being a racist institution and sid race was at the core of Ronny Thompson's failure at Ball State. Mind you - this is the same article that Ronny and his dad, John Thompson, asked Jason Whitlock to write and Whitlock refused to write it basically saying that they were playing the race card where it wasn't warranted. Yet Wilbon had no problem writing the article.maddawg2020 said:
the hairy scotsman
Footballguy
Why?Aerial Assault said:
the hairy scotsman
Footballguy
But he did answer the question.Wilbon, and apparently you, didn't like the answer...but don't claim he copped out.TitusIII said:
Da Masses
Footballguy
The "tough" keep going, the weak resort to excuses. See McNair for the definition of "tough". Don't generalize like this.
Chaka
Footballguy
Do you honestly not believe that VY could put up 100 yards in a game if he wanted to?And achieving Mike Vicks career passing efficiency is not exactly what I would call a lofty goal.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I guess you didn't detect the humor, lol.The "tough" keep going, the weak resort to excuses. See McNair for the definition of "tough". Don't generalize like this.
He started spending too much time with Kornheiser and absorbed the balding idiots' stupidity through osmosis.
And at the same time, this is a public message board where a plethera of topics are discussed everyday. I doubt anyone's going out and going postal over this but may be worth talking about on a message board and talking about our feelings on the subject, as did Wilbon.scoobygang said:
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???? Where does this come from and what sense does it make.
This is why threads get banned. I don't even fully understand this and quite frankly, I'm glad I don't.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
What he is saying, is that only white middle class families with 2.1 children drive a Volkswagon SUV.
Da Masses
Footballguy
My bad, I didn'tI guess you didn't detect the humor, lol.
This is what I don't fully understand and maybe someone knows why. Why does Wilbon think VY has to step up and say anything? I don't get it. This is the beginning of the season. The Titans are 1-1 and are going on the road this week against a Saints team that MUST win this week.You telling me he thinks VY should cause all kinds of drama by saying a bunch of stuff when his teammates are depending upon him to be focuses during the week and gametime. He can owe Mcnabb certain appreciations and in offseasons or whatever make speeches about how he appreciates the African American players that came before him that helped pave the way.But right now, he owes the Tennessee Titans who pay his contract, his teammates who practice their butts off now and the fans of the Titans to be fully prepared, that's what he owes.
yep, then that would do it (getting a thread banned) because that's adding very little quality info to the discussion and opens the door for a lot of off topic and potentially offending material.
big_dman27
Footballguy
I agree man, this thread is getting pretty outrageous
Well, first it was an attempt at humor, as Wilbon is generally someone I enjoy listening to, BUT.... I was saying that he spends too much time with Korno on PTI and has absorbedthat clown's more ridiculous tendencies. It was hyperbole on my part. Then again, I really didn't think it was that hard to figure out what I was saying. What part was unclear?
the hairy scotsman
Footballguy
+1 Spot on.As for whether or not Wilbon wants VY to start a bunch of drama like that, of course he does. He'd love that.
kensat30
Footballguy
Sorry I don't pull punches. My stepfather is black and I have been around black people my entire life. Wilbon tries to "keep it real" but he comes off as fake to me. Sorry if that offends. What has Wilbon ever done to comment on Vince Young's "blackness". If anyone is a punk, it's Wilbon for trying to call out a warrior as a punk just because Vince is a black man that doesn't want to get himself dragged into another black ma's controversy.PS - McNabb is the punk. Guy walked to the line in the Super Bowl. That right there is the definition of "punk".
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burd
Footballguy
here's an idea ...
if Wilbon idiotically expects all blacks in the media to take a stand on racial issues, then there should be an appointed "black person" to speak on behalf of black people on all racial issues. Whenever there's an issue regarding race, they should interview this person and get his views, then leave it alone.
a stupid solution to a stupid idea ...
if Wilbon idiotically expects all blacks in the media to take a stand on racial issues, then there should be an appointed "black person" to speak on behalf of black people on all racial issues. Whenever there's an issue regarding race, they should interview this person and get his views, then leave it alone.
a stupid solution to a stupid idea ...
the hairy scotsman
Footballguy
I can just see it now on my local news..."...and now to our local Black Person for the official Black response." As we have seen here, Black Person better be well-versed on the response he/she is expected to give, or there'll be hell to pay...or Wilbon to pay.Wilbon apparently wants all blacks to march in lockstep with his "black" way of thinking...or whatever he deems as "black" think. If you're not being "black" enough, by voting Democrat or throwing out the race card at every opportunity, or backing up everyone who does, he's gonna call you out, stopping just short of labelling you a Tom.Whether Young thinks he and McNabb are full of sh*te or not, or whether VY has more pressing matters at hand is of no importance to him, as it does nothing to support his agenda.
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Afro Samurai
Footballguy
Why can't he be Steve Young, Fran Tarkenton, or John Elway all over again?
notapplicable
Footballguy
Why should Vince have to pay tribute to those guys? Who is to say that Vince wouldn't be playing QB even if they hadn't "paved the way" for him. I usually like Wilbon, but he lost some respect from me for this. You don't mess with VY.
Chaka
Footballguy
Big-ups to the noob for "getting it".
Chaka
Footballguy
Anyone else loving the irony here?
delusional
Footballguy
Wilborn is always on McNabbs side. he is a chicago boy.
Young and Campbell said the same things basically.
Young and Campbell said the same things basically.
