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Then just do a rotoleague. The whole reason of head to head match-ups is make a fantasy football league like the real thing where PF mean nothing. If you think head to head results are "random luck" then stop doing it and go to roto. Otherwise the correct answer here is H2H results.
Enforcer said:
It helps to prevent an owner from getting the schedule shaft and then missing the playoffs. H2H is great for trash talk but it really does not accurately measure who has the "best" team.
FFL is not the NFL..in the NFL the Patriots offense plays directly against the Eagles defense and vice versa. In FFL, there is no correlation between the team you get matched up with and your ability to score points. H2H is great for trash talk but often inaccurate when measuring the "best" teams.I am in a league that plays doubleheaders which offsets somewhat the scheduling shaft factor, but it is still far short of measuring team strengthRed Apples said:
Because if 2 teams have the same exact record why let one matchup in week 5 determine who the better team is? What if one team had a bunch of players on a bye that one week they happened to play. Should that say who the better team is? Thats why I think for tiebreaker purposes season points is a better way to determine who the better team is in case of a tie.Doctor Detroit said:
Best post on this thread.
i've been an outspoken advocate of all-play for awhile now.total points can be skewed if a team blows up in weeks 1-6 and leads in total points, but comes into the playoffs as the weakest team in the league.H2H can be skewed by a string of bad matchups.all-play eliminates or at least minimizes both these problems.
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Head to head matchups in any given week are mostly luck.... the better team wins more often than not, but random luck too often influences the outcome in any single week. Most HTH leagues use a random schedule generator.... just because the random schedule generator determined that I played a team when I had 4 guys on bye and his kicker kicked 7 field goals does not mean his team should win a tiebreaker.HTH across a whole season makes things interesting. Luck is a factor, but the better team usually wins more games over the course of the season. But any one week can be lost due to luck.Total points is the correct answer.ETA: I could see the arguement for using the tied teams' records against one another over the whole season as a tiebreaker. So if team A outscored team B in more than 1/2 the games, Team A wins the tiebreak. Total points isn't a perfect indicator, just a better indicator than any single week's results.
So if the Packers play the Cowboys without Brett Favre and the Packers lose and they are both 13-3 at the end of the season, the NFL should throw that game out and use total points for as a tiebreaker?
huh? sometimes teams won't play each other so H2H may not be applicable
Are you in the NFL or a fantasy football league?
All-play is the way to go. It is our first tiebreaker for wildcard spots. When comparing two teams, I feel it does the best job of deciding who really had the better season between them.
I have yet to see a fantasy league where teams don't play each other at least once. Of course the actual NFL schedule is different.
In my 12 team league we have 3 divisions and 13 weeks of regular season games. We play division opponents twice which leaves 7 games left between 8 opponents. You do the math.
I don't understand why you would have a league where records count and then go to total points when one of the teams swept the other one? I do understand the feeling that most points is a better indicator of who the better team is in fantasy, but the reason you do h2h is to create record, create a punchers chance and to create a lot more excitement. It is about winning and not about how much you beat your opponent by IMO, otherwise eliminate records all together and just use total points.
Again if you want that then you should eliminate all wins and losses and you should go with total points...while you were at it you should count best lineup or the bench if you want best team. Just because a guy starts another player and he gets injured at the start of the game, that shouldn't hurt your team; your other guy should be allowed to play. Obviously, that is not what I think but if based on comments like the above that is what you are saying.I guess it is about where you draw the line.FFL is not the NFL..in the NFL the Patriots offense plays directly against the Eagles defense and vice versa. In FFL, there is no correlation between the team you get matched up with and your ability to score points. H2H is great for trash talk but often inaccurate when measuring the "best" teams.I am in a league that plays doubleheaders which offsets somewhat the scheduling shaft factor, but it is still far short of measuring team strength
This is interesting because I am in the middle of this exact discussion in my league. We presently have 12 teams and 2 divisions with 3 in each making it and the division winner getting a bye (I like the division winners getting some advantage). However, we are looking at going to 3 divisions and either playing for 14 weeks where you play twice within division and everyone else once or the above scenario where one team is not played yet you allow a 2nd WC who plays each other week 15 (you would always rather win the division then be in the WC.FWIW, I think pro baseball should add another WC team and have them play in a single elimination game as it would accomplish getting more teams involved, create great excitement for that one game playoff, would make it a much tougher road for the WC team as their best pitcher would be used in the single game and it would only extend the season 1 or 2 days max. It also eliminated the Red Sox Yankees discussion of who cares if we win the division (you should always care a lot)shadyridr said:inca911 said:
I used to do it like this but then I had years where if 3 teams were tied for the final spot (team A, B, and C) then team A would make it into the playoffs. But if team A, B, and D were tied team B made it in. Why would team A be better than team B in the first scenario but worse in the 2nd scenario? Just seemed completely random depending on the combination of teams that made it into the tiebreaking scenario. Thats why I went to points for tiebreakers and it just seems now that while theres still a ton of luck involved week to week if theres any question on whos the better team points removes a little bit of that luck. A 7-6 team can still be a low scoring team and make it in over a 6-7 team that happens to lead in points but if they were both 7-6 the team with the higher points would make it as opposed to the team who won in week 5.I don't understand why you would have a league where records count and then go to total points when one of the teams swept the other one? I do understand the feeling that most points is a better indicator of who the better team is in fantasy, but the reason you do h2h is to create record, create a punchers chance and to create a lot more excitement. It is about winning and not about how much you beat your opponent by IMO, otherwise eliminate records all together and just use total points.
Yeah. Do you do head-to-head as the first tie-breaker, then? What if two teams have played each other more than once or one team hasn't played both of the other teams? If one team has beaten both of the other teams, does this team advance and then, a tie-breaker is done between the remaining two teams? Or, do you do the three team tie-break all at once? Our league is in a scuffle about this right now and it's giving me a huge fantasy headache.A win again ov said:
Thats another thing that came up a ton which caused a bunch of headaches. Points eliminated that.
But suppose theres a 3 team tie between Team A, B, and C. Team A played team C twice and played team B once. Team B played Team C once. Say Team A is 2-1 vs B&C, team B is 1-1 vs A&C, and team C is 1-2 vs A&B. Who gets in? If you say team A should get in how is that any fair to team B? Its not team Bs fault he didnt have an extra game scheduled to get that extra win. If you say Team C gets eliminated first and then the tiebreaker is between A&B how is that fair to team C? Perhaps Team B wouldve lost with that extra game.
Yeah, this is exactly the kind of stuff we're dealing with.
Wow, this is a great feature. It'd probably be too controversial to introduce this late in the season, but it's an interesting idea for the future.
This kind of argument is really simplifying things to the point of being an inappropriate argument.If you want to debate rotoleague vs head to head league, the question would be whether a H2H league's season-total record is a valid enough sampling of a team's strength vs the rest of the league to be used to seed playoffs. That would be a valid discussion to have. As for an answer, I think most people would agree a full season of H2H is a reasonably valid sampling, though far from a perfect one. And some may wish to go with another format, roto or double headers, etc, to increase the accuracy of the H2H results. But that (a season's worth of H2H samples) isn't what we're talking about here. We're talking about whether a SINGLE H2H game is a good reflection of those 2 team's strength vs each other. Edit to add: To put this another way, let's say we're talking about rolls of a dice. Your argument amounts to saying, "If you don't think a single roll of a dice is an accurate way to approximate the value of the dice, then you also must say that 12 rolls of the dice isn't accurate either." Clearly that isn't the case. As the number of tests goes up, the accuracy goes up. If you want to argue 12 rolls isn't enough either, you can do that. But just because 1 isn't accurate enough doesn't have any bearing on whether 12 is accurate enough.In the NFL, the scores of the two teams playing the games are dependent variables. The Eagles play a role in what the Patriots scored, and vice versa. In fantasy that isn't the case at all. Just because those two teams are paired up that week doesn't change anything about what they each score. And the smaller sample size makes it a lot less likely to be reflective of the team's strengths.Just because a single H2H game may not be a good enough reflection of a team strength doesn't mean that a full season of H2H games isn't a good reflection of that team strength. There isn't a need to turn this into an all or nothing argument and the reasoning for saying so isn't appropriate to the situation.I think total points is the better method because of the reasons I mentioned. Or all-play record, which is probably even better than total points, but not all sites give you access to that stat.
Wow you really overcomplicated this. You take every tiebreak one team at a time. Team A played team B twice
I was just trying to answer NTs question which is the exact scenario hes trying to deal. LMAO at overcomplicating things when this is exactly what hes dealing with.Oh so your saying it ultimately goes to points?
This is our fault for leaving this open. Dealing with it now is a problem because people vote with their own interests in mind. I guess I'm just trying to figure out the "best" way and there seems to be no real answer.
I know. I used to have the same issues and ultimately eliminated any problems by making points the tiebreaker.This is our fault for leaving this open. Dealing with it now is a problem because people vote with their own interests in mind. I guess I'm just trying to figure out the "best" way and there seems to be no real answer.
