Will Peyton Break the TD record? (1 Viewer)

[ghostguy123]

I am amazed this discussion has already started after 1 freakin game, get real people.

exactly

Lol, I thought it would happen BEFORE week 1. At least I thought the chances of it were pretty good. If everyone stayed healthy I thought it was about 50/50, and that was before I saw how good Julius was.

His WRs are pretty much the perfect compliment to his game, plus I figured Moreno and Hillman would get a few.

 

[MattFancy]

great record... but seems more a function of the nature of the rules changes over the years.

Peyton is great, don't get me wrong.

But I refuse to believe he is actually playing BETTER than he did in some of those years with the Colts... just as I refuse to believe that Peyton, Brady, Brees are really THAT much better than guys like Marino, Montana, Elway.

Seems like every day you turn around there is a new passing or receiving record because of the changes in rules to the game.

I'm not sure if it's going to change or not... but this feels like the steroid era in baseball or the dead ball era.... tons of stats records generated by the conditions of the times.

I agree. What is crazy is that Sid Luckman still has the Bears' passing record, 70 some years later. Cutler is going ot break it next week, but holy crap how did a passing record last that long in today's NFL?

 

[moleculo]

great record... but seems more a function of the nature of the rules changes over the years.

Peyton is great, don't get me wrong.

But I refuse to believe he is actually playing BETTER than he did in some of those years with the Colts... just as I refuse to believe that Peyton, Brady, Brees are really THAT much better than guys like Marino, Montana, Elway.

Seems like every day you turn around there is a new passing or receiving record because of the changes in rules to the game.

I'm not sure if it's going to change or not... but this feels like the steroid era in baseball or the dead ball era.... tons of stats records generated by the conditions of the times.

Except the next guy in the TD list has what...35? Its not like its Bonds/McGwire here, both beating the HR mark.passing stats are certainly more inflated than they were 15 years ago, but that shouldn't diminish what Manninh has done this year.

Manning has upped the other current greats who work under this system of rules.

What this really shows us is how insane Marino's season was, for that era. Just absolutely stupid.

Marino's 1984 season was amazing. Here's one thing to consider though - the #2 TD passer in 1984 was Neil Lomax, with 32Marino was 16 TD passes ahead of his closest peer. By coincidence, right now Manning has 16 TD passes more than Brees, his closest peer.

Marino put up 5084 yards - his closest peer was, again, Neil Lomax with 4614, a difference of 470 yards. Manning currently has 5211 passing yards, 430 yards ahead of Brees.

Manning is as far ahead of the #2 passer as Marino was in 1984.

 

[amnesiac]

Ten-3

SD-3

Hou-4

Oak-2 then sit the second half.

53 is your final number.

 

[CalBear]

In terms of VBD, Manning is currently at 140, which is is best (his 2004 ended up at 129). Brady's 2007 was higher, at 180 VBD points, mostly because the #12 QB scores more now than they did in 2007. Marino's 1984 also happened to be 180 VBD points. Steve Young had 179 VBD points in 1998 (his last full season).

The big RB seasons are a lot bigger than that (in 2-RB leagues), because the #24 RB doesn't score very much. Tomlinson's 2006 was 266 VBD points; I think that's the biggest VBD season of all time. Priest did 218 and 231. Marshall had 208 and 222. TD had 233.

But I think the most impressive VBD feat ever was Rice's 215 in 1987, when he put up 215 VBD points in just 12 games. That means that Rice put up 18 points per game more than the #24 WR. (And 7.5 points per game more than the #2 WR).

 

[jason12vb]

I give almost as much credit to Elway as I do to Manning here. Bringing in Welker this year to give Peyton the 3 WR set he needed to make JT and Moreno serious threats may have been the icing on the cake. With a full year of conditioning in Denver as well as an off-season for his neck to heal and nerves to regenerate it's possible that he would have done it anyway, but I just can't see JT developing into the double-team-worthy threat he is without Welker's ability to get open for the quick dump....they might have needed a TE with more blocking skills.

There is a lot of credit to go around when someone breaks a record in a team sport.

But I definitely think Manning is 16 TD passes better than all but a handful of the QBs in the game. Partially because Manning would have 60+ TDs this year if every one of their games were close till the end and/or they were behiind till the end, which is the case for most of those other teams during the season.

That and I think all but those handful of QBs in the league if put on the Broncos would probably throw 16 TDs less than Manning did.

Manning is a pretty ridiculous stud that gets the best out of what is around him.

Wanted to say "Not sure about 16...but I'd give you 10"....but thinking about it more, it's hard to argue. Brady's season IMO was as much about the system as it was he and Moss, but you replace Peyton with any other QB and you are then also replacing the system only he brings. At any rate, I'm not trying to take anything away from Peyton, just saying 51+ would have been unlikely without Welker. I think it would have been 10 less because I don't think JT would be JT without what Welker brings and I don't think Caldwell could have matched what Welker did over a season.

Someone with the numbers may be able to prove me wrong, but those who are claiming a season of stat-whoring must not be fantasy owners, because as one it sure felt like Peyton had a plethora of 25+ points fantasy 1st halves followed by 10 point second halves as he ran the clock in the 4th quarter after getting up by 4 scores.

 

[Todem]

great record... but seems more a function of the nature of the rules changes over the years.

Peyton is great, don't get me wrong.

But I refuse to believe he is actually playing BETTER than he did in some of those years with the Colts... just as I refuse to believe that Peyton, Brady, Brees are really THAT much better than guys like Marino, Montana, Elway.

Seems like every day you turn around there is a new passing or receiving record because of the changes in rules to the game.

I'm not sure if it's going to change or not... but this feels like the steroid era in baseball or the dead ball era.... tons of stats records generated by the conditions of the times.

Very

Totally agree. Marino, Montana, Elway, Fouts, and Favre are the kings on Mount Rushmore.

I like Brady a ton too but he has had the rules that Manning and Brees have had to play under.

I love Manning, Rodgers, Brady, Brees.....Big Ben...all great QB's but I am not convinced either. The rules the great ones mentioned above played with were a different world. A world where defense was allowed to be played and hitting was allowed as well.

I can't tell you how many low shots I am seeing now across the league. Guys are getting taken out at the knees at an alarming pace and lot's of careers are going to end quickly....not in the name of safety.....in the name of lawsutis.

Let's be real.

Anyway getting off topic.

 

[pizzatyme]

Ten-3

SD-3

Hou-4

Oak-2 then sit the second half.

53 is your final number.

A blind squirrel finds a nut!

 

[ghostguy123]

Why are we comparing numbers from Marino/elway and others to numbers of now?

The only numbers you can compare are the numbers of guys who are playing at the same time, and even then the numbers are quite subjective based on the players around that QB, the coach, and other factors.

Manning could break all the records this year, but that doesn't mean he is playing better than Brady. I am not saying he isn't, but just looking at their numbers does not tell me who is playing better.

When Manning throws a simple 5 yard pass to Demaryius or Julius and they bust through and around people for a 70 yard TD, does that mean the pass was more impressive than when Brady throws the same pass to Thompkins or whoever their TE is now and he gets tackled for a 6 yard gain?

The numbers and records aren't the be all end all of the comparison. However, if Brady had set these same records with his current crew of targets, and did it efficiently, that might be something where I just say look at his numbers, assuming the person I am talking to realizes his WRs/TEs are subpar at best.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Totally agree. Marino, Montana, Elway, Fouts, and Favre are the kings on Mount Rushmore.

There are kings on Mount Rushmore Got it.

 

[cstu]

Ten-3

SD-3

Hou-4

Oak-2 then sit the second half.

53 is your final number.

A blind squirrel finds a nut!

Might as well play the whole game and make it untouchable.

 

[Adam Harstad]

I mean this with full sincerity. Congratulations to manning. He deserved this, and he played incredibly this season. It seems fitting that he should hold this record. It also seems fitting how he won it. In the larger context of his legacy, which will always be compared with bradys, it's interesting that one set the record in a game winning drive to preserve a team accomplishment, and the other set the record the way manning just did it. If that doesn't interest you, then you're welcome to resume celebrating. I have a game to watch and I'm sure the bronco and colt fans would like to celebrate their big wins today.

I don't think it's all that interesting, honestly, though I'm not inclined to see the order of the touchdowns as particularly meaningful. I agree that on the last touchdown, Denver was clearly running up the score against Houston in an effort to secure the record in advance of week 17. I also think it's the first time all season Denver has run up the score. Is it interesting that Manning was running up the score on TD 51? Was it any more or less interesting that he wasn't running up the score on TD 39?

 

[Dentist]

Why are we comparing numbers from Marino/elway and others to numbers of now?

because statistics is always supposed to be the great equalizer.. a hard number to use when debating sports.

All sports discussions inevitably get to the numbers in some way. Since there is no way to prove who is better than the other guy when they didn't play in the same era, we use the numbers for comparisons.

Because saying things like... "i saw Marino play, no one threw a cleaner ball into tighter coverage" just doesn't hold up in a sports argument.

On one hand I realize the game has to change with the times and all... but it is unfortunate that at the end of the day the statistics are pretty meaningless as far as a cross era discussion goes.

When a guy has numbers that DWARF the competition of his time... think Babe Ruth, Dan Marino, Wilt Chamberlain... that is when you know you've found dominance.

Manning's numbers this season are excellent, but they really aren't significantly better than Brees the year he broke Marino's record and Brady the year he broke Mannings first record.

 

[Adam Harstad]

great record... but seems more a function of the nature of the rules changes over the years.

Peyton is great, don't get me wrong.

But I refuse to believe he is actually playing BETTER than he did in some of those years with the Colts... just as I refuse to believe that Peyton, Brady, Brees are really THAT much better than guys like Marino, Montana, Elway.

Seems like every day you turn around there is a new passing or receiving record because of the changes in rules to the game.

I'm not sure if it's going to change or not... but this feels like the steroid era in baseball or the dead ball era.... tons of stats records generated by the conditions of the times.

For what it's worth, according to advanced metrics such as DVOA, this year was basically business as usual for Manning. His DVOA has ranged from about 30% to 40% in seven of his last two seasons. Two of the exceptions were 2004 and 2006, when it was well north of 50%.

So yes, to a large extent, this was just a typical Peyton Manning season, it just so happened that a lot of the variables (crappy defense, fast-tempo offense) aligned this year, resulting in the record. Although, at the same time, it is very atypical for a QB to still be having typical seasons at age 37, after switching teams, and coming off of a potentially career-ending injury that left him unable to grip a football and from which he still hasn't fully recovered.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Question at this point is where does Mannings season rank among all time fantasy years? Has to be among the tops ever, no?

In fact, might it be the highest single point total in fantasy history considering in most scoring systems qbs score the most? Has to be a candidate for top five overall fantasy season along with maybe a Priest Holmes year and Faulks ridiculous years. Even with the other great QB years, Peyton's so far ahead of second this season, it reminds me of Warner blowing up onto the scene when offenses were not nearly geared as they are today.

By VBD, Peyton Manning doesn't have the #1 fantasy season of 2013, let alone of all time. Jamaal Charles has been more valuable in most typical formats. And I have a hard time seeing anyone touching O.J. Simpson's ridiiiiiiculous 1975 season for the most valuable fantasy season in history. Note: that wasn't Simpson's 2,000 yard rushing year, which falls short because it was lacking in receptions and touchdowns. In 1975, Simpson put up 2243 yards and 23 TDs. In 14 games. A couple of other RBs also had monster years, but the 5th-best running back had 1194 yards and 11 TDs. Which means O.J. Simpson and Bart Simpson would have scored almost as many fantasy points as the #5 and #6 RBs COMBINED that season (364 to 382).

 

[Koya]

Question at this point is where does Mannings season rank among all time fantasy years? Has to be among the tops ever, no?

In fact, might it be the highest single point total in fantasy history considering in most scoring systems qbs score the most? Has to be a candidate for top five overall fantasy season along with maybe a Priest Holmes year and Faulks ridiculous years. Even with the other great QB years, Peyton's so far ahead of second this season, it reminds me of Warner blowing up onto the scene when offenses were not nearly geared as they are today.

By VBD, Peyton Manning doesn't have the #1 fantasy season of 2013, let alone of all time. Jamaal Charles has been more valuable in most typical formats. And I have a hard time seeing anyone touching O.J. Simpson's ridiiiiiiculous 1975 season for the most valuable fantasy season in history. Note: that wasn't Simpson's 2,000 yard rushing year, which falls short because it was lacking in receptions and touchdowns. In 1975, Simpson put up 2243 yards and 23 TDs. In 14 games. A couple of other RBs also had monster years, but the 5th-best running back had 1194 yards and 11 TDs. Which means O.J. Simpson and Bart Simpson would have scored almost as many fantasy points as the #5 and #6 RBs COMBINED that season (364 to 382).

Fair points - I am skewed by thinking in a two QB mentality which, obviously, totally changes the playing field.

Even so, I am surprised that it would not rank higher, indeed shows you how much offense is in the league today, as has been noted throughout this thread.

 

[Adam Harstad]

In terms of VBD, Manning is currently at 140, which is is best (his 2004 ended up at 129). Brady's 2007 was higher, at 180 VBD points, mostly because the #12 QB scores more now than they did in 2007. Marino's 1984 also happened to be 180 VBD points. Steve Young had 179 VBD points in 1998 (his last full season).

The big RB seasons are a lot bigger than that (in 2-RB leagues), because the #24 RB doesn't score very much. Tomlinson's 2006 was 266 VBD points; I think that's the biggest VBD season of all time. Priest did 218 and 231. Marshall had 208 and 222. TD had 233.

But I think the most impressive VBD feat ever was Rice's 215 in 1987, when he put up 215 VBD points in just 12 games. That means that Rice put up 18 points per game more than the #24 WR. (And 7.5 points per game more than the #2 WR).

O.J. Simpson had 282 VBD in 1975, which is the highest total I've ever found. And it came in 14 games; give him two more, and I think he easily could have topped 300 VBD. Which is absurd. O.J. Simpson had more VBD (282) than the #3 RB had TOTAL POINTS (264).

If we're talking about shorter seasons, like Rice's 1987, then Wes Chandler's 1982 is far and away the record holder. He put up 190 VBD... in eight games. That would project out to 380 VBD over a full season, even discounting the fact that the baseline is skewed because most WRs played 9 games that year. His stats would pro-rate out to 98/2128/18 in a much less WR-friendly environment. The #5 receiver that year was Wesley Walker. If you pro-rate Walker's stats out to 16 games, he'd have had 69/1100/10.7.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

In terms of VBD, Manning is currently at 140, which is is best (his 2004 ended up at 129). Brady's 2007 was higher, at 180 VBD points, mostly because the #12 QB scores more now than they did in 2007. Marino's 1984 also happened to be 180 VBD points. Steve Young had 179 VBD points in 1998 (his last full season).

The big RB seasons are a lot bigger than that (in 2-RB leagues), because the #24 RB doesn't score very much. Tomlinson's 2006 was 266 VBD points; I think that's the biggest VBD season of all time. Priest did 218 and 231. Marshall had 208 and 222. TD had 233.

But I think the most impressive VBD feat ever was Rice's 215 in 1987, when he put up 215 VBD points in just 12 games. That means that Rice put up 18 points per game more than the #24 WR. (And 7.5 points per game more than the #2 WR).

O.J. Simpson had 282 VBD in 1975, which is the highest total I've ever found. And it came in 14 games; give him two more, and I think he easily could have topped 300 VBD. Which is absurd. O.J. Simpson had more VBD (282) than the #3 RB had TOTAL POINTS (264).

If we're talking about shorter seasons, like Rice's 1987, then Wes Chandler's 1982 is far and away the record holder. He put up 190 VBD... in eight games. That would project out to 380 VBD over a full season, even discounting the fact that the baseline is skewed because most WRs played 9 games that year. His stats would pro-rate out to 98/2128/18 in a much less WR-friendly environment. The #5 receiver that year was Wesley Walker. If you pro-rate Walker's stats out to 16 games, he'd have had 69/1100/10.7.

Don Hutson's 1942 season probably has a nice VBD/

 

[CalBear]

Don Hutson's 1942 season probably has a nice VBD/

Unfortunately PFR doesn't auto-tabulate fantasy scores that far back. And it's not really fair to compare Hutson against the #24 receiver when there were only 10 teams in the league. But he had 223 fantasy points receiving, plus one field goal and 33 extra points for a total of 259 in 11 games. If you want to throw defensive stats in there he had 7 picks.

A reasonable baseline receiver that year might be John Siegal, who scored 38 points (and made the Pro Bowl). So that gives Hutson 221 VBD points (228 if you count the picks) in 11 games. Certainly right up there with the most impressive of all time.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Don Hutson's 1942 season probably has a nice VBD/

Unfortunately PFR doesn't auto-tabulate fantasy scores that far back. And it's not really fair to compare Hutson against the #24 receiver when there were only 10 teams in the league. But he had 223 fantasy points receiving, plus one field goal and 33 extra points for a total of 259 in 11 games. If you want to throw defensive stats in there he had 7 picks.

A reasonable baseline receiver that year might be John Siegal, who scored 38 points (and made the Pro Bowl). So that gives Hutson 221 VBD points (228 if you count the picks) in 11 games. Certainly right up there with the most impressive of all time.

Also, as with anything Hutson-related, you have to remember that much of the league's talent was overseas for WWII during 1942.

Jim Brown is another guy for whom PFR doesn't auto-tabulate fantasy points, but I still have a hard time seeing him top O.J. Simpson's 1975. Brown's best year was either 1963 (2131 yards and 15 TDs in 14 games), 1965 (1872 yards and 21 TDs in 14 games), or 1958 (1665 yards and 18 TDs in 12 games), none of which come close to the raw numbers of Simpson's 2243/23 in 14 games. Calculating baselines gets pretty weird that far back because the league was so much smaller, but the baseline would have to be a TON lower for Brown to stack up favorably against Simpson in raw VBD.

 

[jonmhend]

I agree with the argument that some of the rules favor the O much more so than back in the Marino/Elway era.

There was a stretch in there (I believe it was in the 80's) where you couldn't touch the WR period and you also saw an offensive explosion. You also need to keep in mind, however, that defenses are much more sophisticated now then ever before. Remember the Dallas "flex"? Just a bunch of stunts that are run-of-the-mill now. Now you have D linemen that drop into coverage and blitz packages from all over the field.

Personally, I think most of the guys we consider to be great would be great in whatever era they played in. Seems to be an effort to discount what Manning is doing because of the rules, but I'd be surprised if he wasn't still a top 3 QB even if it was 1980.

 

[CalBear]

I agree with the argument that some of the rules favor the O much more so than back in the Marino/Elway era.

Why is Elway even being mentioned here? He never led the league in fantasy scoring for a QB. He only had one year over 100 VBD points, one year leading the league in passing yardage, and never led in TDs. (In fact, never threw more than 27 TDs).

If we're talking about fantasy scoring, Joe Montana (led league 3 times) and Dan Fouts (led league twice) are better companions for Marino than Elway was.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Some more crazy older fantasy seasons:

Elroy Hirsch 1951- 1498 yards and 17 TDs... in 12 games. Including a system-breaking 33 points of AV, according to PFR (honestly, I never even realized it was possible to get over 25). Hirsch literally had more receiving yards and more receiving TDs than the #3 and #4 guys combined. Other than Hutson, Hirsch is the first guy I've found who would have outscored literally any two other players at his own position (well, provided you ignored Gordie Soltau's points as a kicker).

Speaking of points as a kicker, if Yahoo existed back in the 1960s, and if it gave George Blanda dual-eligibility as a QB and a K (like it did with Marques Colston and his infamous TE-eligible designation), pretty sure early-60s Blanda would be the greatest fantasy player ever. In 1961, in particular, Blanda led the league in passing yardage and passing touchdowns, and also finished 2nd in scoring as a kicker (including making the 6th most XPs by any player in history). Similarly, Paul Hornung in 1960 would have also netted you nearly 1,000 offensive yards and 15 offensive touchdowns from your kicker position. Some of those dual-eligibles would break fantasy football.

 

[Adam Harstad]

I agree with the argument that some of the rules favor the O much more so than back in the Marino/Elway era.

Why is Elway even being mentioned here? He never led the league in fantasy scoring for a QB. He only had one year over 100 VBD points, one year leading the league in passing yardage, and never led in TDs. (In fact, never threw more than 27 TDs).

If we're talking about fantasy scoring, Joe Montana (led league 3 times) and Dan Fouts (led league twice) are better companions for Marino than Elway was.

Or Steve Young, my pick for the best fantasy QB in history. On a per-game basis, nobody has ever offered as crushing of an advantage as Steve Young did from 1991 to 1998. Hell, even without per-game adjustments, Steve Young produced almost as much VBD in 8 years as Marino did in 17. With the adjustments, he produced substantially more.

For total career VBD, I don't think anyone is going to touch Peyton, but over an extended peak, Steve Young is the gold standard.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Did you look at any USFL seasons? I wonder what Hershel Walker's seasons/career would compare.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I mean this with full sincerity. Congratulations to manning. He deserved this, and he played incredibly this season. It seems fitting that he should hold this record. It also seems fitting how he won it. In the larger context of his legacy, which will always be compared with bradys, it's interesting that one set the record in a game winning drive to preserve a team accomplishment, and the other set the record the way manning just did it. If that doesn't interest you, then you're welcome to resume celebrating. I have a game to watch and I'm sure the bronco and colt fans would like to celebrate their big wins today.

I don't think it's all that interesting, honestly, though I'm not inclined to see the order of the touchdowns as particularly meaningful. I agree that on the last touchdown, Denver was clearly running up the score against Houston in an effort to secure the record in advance of week 17. I also think it's the first time all season Denver has run up the score. Is it interesting that Manning was running up the score on TD 51? Was it any more or less interesting that he wasn't running up the score on TD 39?

I think once he got number 50 out of the way, he was probably like, "Might as well go for 51 today, too," which made sense cause had the Patriots lost to the Ravens yesterday, the Broncos game next week would have been meaningless, and Manning probably doesn't play that much, and staying in the game for longer than they wanted just to break the record would have been unnecessary. But as it turns out, they need to win next week to secure home field, so the focus all week can be on winning and not on him breaking the record.

 

[Billy Bats]

Ten-3

SD-3

Hou-4

Oak-2 then sit the second half.

53 is your final number.

A blind squirrel finds a nut!

Might as well play the whole game and make it untouchable.

Is there such a thing as untouchable? The way they're headed, I don't think 60 is too far off in the future.

 

[General Tso]

Is there such a thing as untouchable?

I just find it funny that this question is coming from Billy Bats. He of all people should know...

 

[purestrength]

This was the most fun I've had following a record chase in any sport. I kinda enjoyed McGwire/Sosa in 1998 ... until the reality of their steroid boost kicked in.

I'm pretty sure Peyton isn't on roids, lol.

 

[cstu]

Might as well play the whole game and make it untouchable.

Is there such a thing as untouchable? The way they're headed, I don't think 60 is too far off in the future.

Untouchable is probably too strong a word but 56 would be 3.5 TD's a game and even with today's passing that would be an incredible feat.

 

[buck naked]

This was the most fun I've had following a record chase in any sport. I kinda enjoyed McGwire/Sosa in 1998 ... until the reality of their steroid boost kicked in.

I'm pretty sure Peyton isn't on roids, lol.

I guess so, when you have him a hundred times on your fantasy teams.

 

[jurb26]

Might as well play the whole game and make it untouchable.

Is there such a thing as untouchable? The way they're headed, I don't think 60 is too far off in the future.

Untouchable is probably too strong a word but 56 would be 3.5 TD's a game and even with today's passing that would be an incredible feat.

This record will be broken again in less than 10 years.

 

[Koya]

Might as well play the whole game and make it untouchable.

Is there such a thing as untouchable? The way they're headed, I don't think 60 is too far off in the future.

Untouchable is probably too strong a word but 56 would be 3.5 TD's a game and even with today's passing that would be an incredible feat.

This record will be broken again in less than 10 years.

We all know sports are, to a large degree, cyclical. I wonder if Mannings year is the culmination of this cycle. Whether it be defensive adjustments, new rule changes and/ or the evolution of the game (which may be related to the first two).

Last year have us a peak into the read option QB - although the running QB seemed to take a backseat this year. That said, if we see more Cam Newton / Caep types, or even Russell Wilson types in conjunction with more focus on defense, perhaps we won't see 50+ TDs.

Obviously just a postulation, but Manning is as a good a thrower as we've ever seen, gets the right play at the line as well as anyone we've ever seen, and has had tremendous weapons including a running game, all year ( including depth so when Welker goes down you have a top 5 overall WR, a top 15 overall WR and probably a top 5 pass catching TE still going).

It's hardly untouchable, but at some point this flow of the passing game will ebb and Manning had a nice perfect storm to get 51 so far.

If he plays three quarters this coming week and gets close to 55, that's gonna be hard to reach.

 

[Faust]

Should Peyton Manning's 50th TD have counted?By Dan Hanzus

Around the League Writer

Wade Phillips would like you to know that Peyton Manning shouldn't have set the single-season touchdown record on his watch.

The Houston Texans' interim coach told reporters Friday that Manning's third of four touchdown passes Sunday -- a 20-yard strike to Eric Decker that tied Tom Brady's all-time mark of 50 touchdowns -- should've been overturned on review because Decker juggled the ball before getting two feet down.

Phillips took it up with the league, and according to the coach, was told the pass should've been ruled incomplete. (We imagine the league is thrilled he shared this information with the rest of us.)

"Poor Manning," Phillips said. "He thought he broke the record."

When told of Phillips' frisky dig, one prominent Bronco offered a game retort (via The Denver Post):

"We would have got 50 on fourth down, then."

Feel the burn, Son Of Bum.

The latest "Around The League Podcast" delivered a Christmas gift, analyzing the chaotic playoff picture in both conferences.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Things like that slip through every week. Singling it out because it was Manning and because it was #50 is stupid. The refs called it a TD, and it counted.

So it counts as #50.

 

[pizzatyme]

Wade Phillips is a doosh.

 

[Chachi]

Peyton got the record cause he's a stat whore and is jealous of Tom Brady.

 

[Buffaloes]

Wade Phillips is a doosh.

I don't think so. Met him one time and he seemed like a pretty nice guy.

 

[pizzatyme]

Wade Phillips is a doosh.

I don't think so. Met him one time and he seemed like a pretty nice guy.

They're not mutually exclusive. He can be nice to you and a doosh to me.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Phillips is just crying baby shoes cause the record-breaking score came against his defense. Given how crestfallen he looks every time things don't go his team's way (worst poker face ever), I am not surprised he would whine about this.

 

[FUBAR]

You guys trying to minimize Manning's record do realize that he is head and shoulda above #2 and down, right?

Manning 51

Brees 35

Romo/Dalton 31

The other QBs are playing by the same rules and are at least 16 behind.

And is anyone really going to suggest that Denver's WRs are 16 or 20+ more TDs more talented than the rest of the league?

This is all about Manning. It's okay to say so.

It's not all about Manning and it's logical to say so. Football is a team game and records don't get broken unless the entire unit contributes. Manning deserves credit and he will get credit but saying it's all about him is naive.

I'm saying the difference between 35 & 51 TD passes IS all about Manning. The rest of the QBs in the league have teammates too.

You think the rest of those guys have teammates as good? I don't. It's largely irrelevant anyway. I'd say Manning is no way 16 or 20 TDs better than the rest of the leagues QBs. Somewhere between my statement and yours is a balance that is probably the truth.

Peyton would be close to the record with dez/witten etc or green and Bengals crew. It's possible that the Bengals actually have better players around Dalton than Peyton has

 

[FUBAR]

Might as well play the whole game and make it untouchable.

Is there such a thing as untouchable? The way they're headed, I don't think 60 is too far off in the future.

Untouchable is probably too strong a word but 56 would be 3.5 TD's a game and even with today's passing that would be an incredible feat.

This record will be broken again in less than 10 years.

Probably. Rodgers and luck have a chance. It doesn't hurt that Denver's defense is one of the worst in the AFC

 

[pizzatyme]

You guys trying to minimize Manning's record do realize that he is head and shoulda above #2 and down, right?

Manning 51

Brees 35

Romo/Dalton 31

The other QBs are playing by the same rules and are at least 16 behind.

And is anyone really going to suggest that Denver's WRs are 16 or 20+ more TDs more talented than the rest of the league?

This is all about Manning. It's okay to say so.

It's not all about Manning and it's logical to say so. Football is a team game and records don't get broken unless the entire unit contributes. Manning deserves credit and he will get credit but saying it's all about him is naive.

I'm saying the difference between 35 & 51 TD passes IS all about Manning. The rest of the QBs in the league have teammates too.

You think the rest of those guys have teammates as good? I don't.It's largely irrelevant anyway. I'd say Manning is no way 16 or 20 TDs better than the rest of the leagues QBs. Somewhere between my statement and yours is a balance that is probably the truth.

Peyton would be close to the record with dez/witten etc or green and Bengals crew. It's possible that the Bengals actually have better players around Dalton than Peyton has

Right, which means PM is the difference.

 

[msudaisy26]

You guys trying to minimize Manning's record do realize that he is head and shoulda above #2 and down, right?

Manning 51

Brees 35

Romo/Dalton 31

The other QBs are playing by the same rules and are at least 16 behind.

And is anyone really going to suggest that Denver's WRs are 16 or 20+ more TDs more talented than the rest of the league?

This is all about Manning. It's okay to say so.

It's not all about Manning and it's logical to say so. Football is a team game and records don't get broken unless the entire unit contributes. Manning deserves credit and he will get credit but saying it's all about him is naive.

I'm saying the difference between 35 & 51 TD passes IS all about Manning. The rest of the QBs in the league have teammates too.

You think the rest of those guys have teammates as good? I don't.It's largely irrelevant anyway. I'd say Manning is no way 16 or 20 TDs better than the rest of the leagues QBs. Somewhere between my statement and yours is a balance that is probably the truth.

Peyton would be close to the record with dez/witten etc or green and Bengals crew. It's possible that the Bengals actually have better players around Dalton than Peyton has

Right, which means PM is the difference.

Peyton Manning is a great quarterback. but it is stupid to think he doesn't have the best weapons in the league. Are some teams close, maybe. Manning also had the perfect storm this year, a very bad defense, 3 great receivers, a good tight end and a very good pass catching back. There is no way he would have had this many touchdowns for the Bengals with their good defense. Jones and Sanu aren't as good as Welker and Decker right now and even if Bernard was getting the bulk of snaps he is a rookie and right now he isn't as good as Moreno, he is more talented but experience goes a long way. Dallas doesn't have the weapons that Denver has either.

Swap Dalton and Manning from their teams and Manning puts up 40 to 45 touchdowns and Dalton probably goes up to 40 as well.

Swap Manning and Brees and I say Manning puts up near 40 touchdowns and Brees would have been right around 50 this year.

 

[Buffaloes]

There is no way he would have had this many touchdowns for the Bengals with their good defense.

there is no way of knowing this. especially if you subscribe (which based on the tone of your posts, I think you probably do) to the narrative that Manning is going all out for the records. The notion that Dalton puts up the same amount of TDs in Denver's o as Manning does in Cincy's o is way off imo. Dalton is holding that offence back. And if Manning were on the Bengals he'd likely be putting up huge numbers and the spin would likely be oh, he has the best WR in the league, one of the best young pass-catching TEs and RBs and a defence that gives him more possessions than other teams so he can run the score up blah blah blah. There's going to be some spin from people who simply don't like Manning for one reason or another.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

What a pleasure it has been to own Peyton's selfish-### this year. Thanks for the memories and cash Forehead. It's been fun.

 

[FUBAR]

You guys trying to minimize Manning's record do realize that he is head and shoulda above #2 and down, right?

Manning 51

Brees 35

Romo/Dalton 31

The other QBs are playing by the same rules and are at least 16 behind.

And is anyone really going to suggest that Denver's WRs are 16 or 20+ more TDs more talented than the rest of the league?

This is all about Manning. It's okay to say so.

It's not all about Manning and it's logical to say so. Football is a team game and records don't get broken unless the entire unit contributes. Manning deserves credit and he will get credit but saying it's all about him is naive.

I'm saying the difference between 35 & 51 TD passes IS all about Manning. The rest of the QBs in the league have teammates too.

You think the rest of those guys have teammates as good? I don't.It's largely irrelevant anyway. I'd say Manning is no way 16 or 20 TDs better than the rest of the leagues QBs. Somewhere between my statement and yours is a balance that is probably the truth.

Peyton would be close to the record with dez/witten etc or green and Bengals crew. It's possible that the Bengals actually have better players around Dalton than Peyton has

Right, which means PM is the difference.

Peyton Manning is a great quarterback. but it is stupid to think he doesn't have the best weapons in the league. Are some teams close, maybe. Manning also had the perfect storm this year, a very bad defense, 3 great receivers, a good tight end and a very good pass catching back. There is no way he would have had this many touchdowns for the Bengals with their good defense. Jones and Sanu aren't as good as Welker and Decker right now and even if Bernard was getting the bulk of snaps he is a rookie and right now he isn't as good as Moreno, he is more talented but experience goes a long way. Dallas doesn't have the weapons that Denver has either.

Swap Dalton and Manning from their teams and Manning puts up 40 to 45 touchdowns and Dalton probably goes up to 40 as well.

Swap Manning and Brees and I say Manning puts up near 40 touchdowns and Brees would have been right around 50 this year.

I like welker a lot, but this was one of his worst seasons with missing three games. Peyton made Caldwell look good. Green is better than Thomas. The Bengals tight ends are better than the other Thomas, Decker is good but overall it's at least close. Gio and moreno have very similar receiving stats.

I won't disagree with your brees/Peyton swap guess, but that considering brees has led the league in touchdowns 4 of the last 6 years, that's not saying much.

 

[purestrength]

I do NOT think A.J. Green is better than D.Thomas. About equal, I'd say.

 

[ghostguy123]

Random thoughts:

I think it is pretty crystal clear that Thomas/Welker/Decker/Thomas is better than the Bengals WR/TE group, and it's just amplified that much more since their skill sets fit quite nicely with Manning's strengths. While the talent might be close, the Bronco players as a whole are much more polished at this time.

I don't think we will ever see a QB break a record without nice talent around him.

Dalton COULD throw 40 TDs on the Broncos, I just don't think he would. PLus they would probably lose half their games if Dalton was their QB.

 

[Pots]

I do NOT think A.J. Green is better than D.Thomas. About equal, I'd say.

Really??