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William Green: Bigger, Stronger, Faster (1 Viewer)

offdee

Footballguy
Good news for Billy Green owners! Especially about him getting better on the receiving end and the coaches taking notice in his improvement. I bet that woman at Church who started the rumor about 2 months ago that Green would be missing this season is taking some heat now!!!! She's now an outcast at the Sunday morning pancake breakfasts with the rest of the parish!Bigger, Faster, StrongerBy Zac JacksonThis report filed June 11, 2003 The bad news for the AFC North Division is this: William Green looks set to pick up where he left off at the end of last season. Green has been impressive in the Browns’ minicamp this week, looking especially quick while turning the corner and comfortable catching passes out of the backfield. “The running backs have spent a lot of time catching passes from the jugs machine and working with the quarterbacks,” Browns Head Coach Butch Davis said. “William is definitely catching the ball better.” With the Browns’ quarterback situation grabbing a bulk of the media attention and fellow running backs Jamel White, James Jackson and Lee Suggs making headlines with contract and injury matters, Green has been in a place he likes: out of the spotlight. But if the end of 2002 is any indication, Green won’t be a forgotten man for long. Green finished last season with a team-high 887 rushing yards and six touchdowns. He rushed for 726 yards over the final seven games, and capped off the season by rushing for a career-high 178 yards and two touchdowns in the Browns’ playoff-clinching win over Atlanta. Most importantly, Cleveland was 6-3 with Green in the starting lineup, 4-0 when he rushed for more than 95 yards, and 5-0 when he scored a touchdown. And the best appears to be yet to come. “He looks a lot quicker,” Davis said. “You see speed and explosion. He’s another guy that’s benefited from being here in the offseason.”

 

joffer

Footballguy
I can't find in the article where it says he's bigger and stronger, and you'll excuse me if I don't by the coachspeak on the "faster"

 
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FightingWombat

Guest
The only problem is that division rival Jerome Bettis is in the 'best shape' of his career. Jamal Lewis is going for the rushing title. Actually, just about every (non-Hambrick) RB is in the best shape of their careers and are primed to turn it up this year. Heck, even Ron Dayne is reported to be lean and mean. :rolleyes: I think Green will do well this year but this article reeks of off season hype.

 

smlevin

Footballguy
The only problem is that division rival Jerome Bettis is in the 'best shape' of his career. Jamal Lewis is going for the rushing title. Actually, just about every (non-Hambrick) RB is in the best shape of their careers and are primed to turn it up this year. Heck, even Ron Dayne is reported to be lean and mean. :rolleyes: I think Green will do well this year but this article reeks of off season hype.
Agreed - big time homer/hype speech here about Green. I can't imagine the Browns won't use Jamel White (who also came into camp in "the best shape of his career") on passing downs. At the risk of hijacking this thread, I read yesterday that Hambrick is now at Parcells' target weight, and weighed in at 239. 16 pounds lost in three weeks? Can that be right and can that be healthy?
 

mfuller1971

Footballguy
Agreed that this could be mostly hype, but even focusing only on how he ended 2002, he could be a sweet RB3 in some drafts and presents a nice upside for a relatively low cost. His current avg. selection on A.S.S. is 29th in a 10 team and 25th in a 12 team. If you go 1-2-3 on RBs, he'd be a nice #3.

 

offdee

Footballguy
The only problem is that division rival Jerome Bettis is in the 'best shape' of his career. Jamal Lewis is going for the rushing title. Actually, just about every (non-Hambrick) RB is in the best shape of their careers and are primed to turn it up this year. Heck, even Ron Dayne is reported to be lean and mean. :rolleyes: I think Green will do well this year but this article reeks of off season hype.
I agree, take the article for what it's worth, but I posted it for two main points in regards to questions that some of us may have had surrounding William Green...1) most of us remember a couple months back when someone posted a rumor on these boards stating that a woman at his church (a wife of a Cleveland Brown) stated that William Green would not be on the field much this year due to personal reasons. That poster went on to say that he was going to downgrade Green until he heard further. This news should at least squash that ridiculous rumor.2) Green's main downfall in FF value is that he loses 3rd down touches to Jamel White because of his receiving skills. This isn't to say that White still won't see 3rd down duty but it's to say that Green is working hard to become, and is becoming, a better receiver and if the coaches are noticing this improvement they may think twice about pulling him on all 3rd down passing situations. If Green can prove that he has the receiving skills needed for 3rd down duty than that also makes Jamel White more expendable, thus more open to being traded in the future if the situation arises again like it did this off-season. I'm not implying that White will get traded, but if he did, and Green became an every down back he would then have the potential to be a top 5 RB...thus making this news noteworthy especially for Dynasty purposes.
 

Brintey Spears

Footballguy
Well good to know he'll be on the field rather than home with personal problems. All joking aside, the article is mostly fluff. I do however like Green's prospects this year. He ended the season running very well. He did have a very poor playoff game, but he ended the regular season on a roll. His coach loves him, and will give him every opportunity to flourish.As stated before, if you go RB for your first 3 picks, you could do much much worse than William Green.

 
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FightingWombat

Guest
I agree, take the article for what it's worth, but I posted it for two main points in regards to questions that some of us may have had surrounding William Green...1) most of us remember a couple months back when someone posted a rumor on these boards stating that a woman at his church (a wife of a Cleveland Brown) stated that William Green would not be on the field much this year due to personal reasons. That poster went on to say that he was going to downgrade Green until he heard further. This news should at least squash that ridiculous rumor.2) Green's main downfall in FF value is that he loses 3rd down touches to Jamel White because of his receiving skills. This isn't to say that White still won't see 3rd down duty but it's to say that Green is working hard to become, and is becoming, a better receiver and if the coaches are noticing this improvement they may think twice about pulling him on all 3rd down passing situations. If Green can prove that he has the receiving skills needed for 3rd down duty than that also makes Jamel White more expendable, thus more open to being traded in the future if the situation arises again like it did this off-season. I'm not implying that White will get traded, but if he did, and Green became an every down back he would then have the potential to be a top 5 RB...thus making this news noteworthy especially for Dynasty purposes.
Point taken. I will say I missed the post you mentioned in #1. I like Green very much in a redraft as he does represent some value. I would love to get him in the 3rd round also. The dynasty situation is what concerns me. If he is going to be 'the guy', why sign White and Jackson to an extension and draft Suggs? I realize that they need depth at RB but that seems a little extreme. I don't think it would be unreasonable to move White to get some defensive help. It just makes me a bit cautious from a dynasty standpoint because he may not acheive stud numbers if they have 3 or 4 options at RB.
 

offdee

Footballguy
I agree, take the article for what it's worth, but I posted it for two main points in regards to questions that some of us may have had surrounding William Green...1) most of us remember a couple months back when someone posted a rumor on these boards stating that a woman at his church (a wife of a Cleveland Brown) stated that William Green would not be on the field much this year due to personal reasons. That poster went on to say that he was going to downgrade Green until he heard further. This news should at least squash that ridiculous rumor.2) Green's main downfall in FF value is that he loses 3rd down touches to Jamel White because of his receiving skills. This isn't to say that White still won't see 3rd down duty but it's to say that Green is working hard to become, and is becoming, a better receiver and if the coaches are noticing this improvement they may think twice about pulling him on all 3rd down passing situations. If Green can prove that he has the receiving skills needed for 3rd down duty than that also makes Jamel White more expendable, thus more open to being traded in the future if the situation arises again like it did this off-season. I'm not implying that White will get traded, but if he did, and Green became an every down back he would then have the potential to be a top 5 RB...thus making this news noteworthy especially for Dynasty purposes.
Point taken. I will say I missed the post you mentioned in #1. I like Green very much in a redraft as he does represent some value. I would love to get him in the 3rd round also. The dynasty situation is what concerns me. If he is going to be 'the guy', why sign White and Jackson to an extension and draft Suggs? I realize that they need depth at RB but that seems a little extreme. I don't think it would be unreasonable to move White to get some defensive help. It just makes me a bit cautious from a dynasty standpoint because he may not acheive stud numbers if they have 3 or 4 options at RB.
I believe Jamel White was signed to a contract extension mainly because the Browns didn't foresee William Green being a 3rd down back in passing situations which made Jamel White a very valuable player to have on the team...but like I said, if Green can prove that he can catch the ball and become a viable 3rd down option than that would make Jamel White more expendable and a valuable player they could trade to help in other areas of need.James Jackson was signed to a ONE YEAR contract to add depth to the Browns RB core for this season because the team believed Rookie Lee Suggs would be on the shelf for this year because of the shoulder surgery. After this season James Jackson will be an afterthought to the Browns and shouldn't even be in the scenario when talking about William Green's Dynasty value.The drafting of Lee Suggs was more about being a pick of value more than need. Getting him in the 4th round was a gift and he will prove to be a very capable backup to Green in the next year or so...but I always have the motto that if someone has an extensive injury history in college already than it is only going to get worse with the harder and constant pounding at the next level. Suggs is already a walking injury report with the knees and shoulder issues and I just don't have a good feeling about him being able to maintain his health on a constant basis which will relegate him to competant backup status for his career IMO. But Suggs is talented which further backs my theory that would make Jamel White expendable to a future trade possibility since Suggs could be a capable backup to Green....and if this happens I doubt they would make Suggs the 3rd down back as receiving isn't his strongest suit either which would mean William Green could achieve the coveted "every down back" status.My prophecy following this season is as follows...- William Green proves he is a capable pass reciever, leading to the trading of Jamel White for a proven Linebacker after the Browns realize that they can't become a contender until they solve this problem that they will struggle with all season. - Browns RB depth chart in '04:1) William Green (every down back)2) Lee Suggs (capable back up)3) James Jackson (still believes he's better than Edgerrin James)I'd also like to throw in this final little tidbit for good measure that I just saw at kffl.com....Browns | Green Catching Ball Well - from www.KFFL.comThu, 12 Jun 2003 08:27:18 -0700The Cleveland Plain Dealer reports Cleveland Browns RB William Green has looked good catching the ball out of the backfield.
 

ILUVBEER99

Footballguy
While the article is pre-season fluff, I do believe, and have believed since his college days that William Green is a top RB talent. He has a very good chance to be a top 10 RB this year, and should be for years to come.This is coming from a Lee Suggs owner in a dynasty league who doesn't have William Green, but wishes he did, because barring injury w.green is the starter in Cleveland for the long haul.

 

Genghis Khan

Footballguy
I have been checking all of the Brown's opponents this year, and I find that:1. The defensive lines have spent the off-season getting stronger, and have reduced their body fat percentages, whicle increasing their muscle mass.2. The linebacking corps have spent the offseason getting stronger and faster, and appear to have a new attitude toward fitness. Individually, they appear to be, and I quote: "In the best shape of their career..."Sounds scary. William Green will find it hard to keep up with the leaner, meaner defenses.June is the month for marriages; and for fluff.

 

offdee

Footballguy
I have been checking all of the Brown's opponents this year, and I find that:1. The defensive lines have spent the off-season getting stronger, and have reduced their body fat percentages, whicle increasing their muscle mass.2. The linebacking corps have spent the offseason getting stronger and faster, and appear to have a new attitude toward fitness. Individually, they appear to be, and I quote: "In the best shape of their career..."Sounds scary. William Green will find it hard to keep up with the leaner, meaner defenses.June is the month for marriages; and for fluff.
There's no arguing that this article is mainly fluff when talking about Green being stronger, leaner and meaner along with the rest of the NFL at this time of year.But what I made a point of stating above is the relevant information in this article relating to Green working on and becoming a better reciever out of the backfield and the Browns coaches taking notice of this improvement. I specifically pointed this out above and backed it with my opinions as to how this could affect Green's long term value, thus making certain tidbits of this article much more tangible and relevant than they seem at first glance.
 

Franknbeans

Footballguy
Here's a good story on the state of the Browns... Coachspeak, maybe... Optimism, Definitely. :thumbup:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/plaindeale...07330190070.xml

Some more from PFW...

May 5, 2003

The Browns were thrilled to add C Jeff Faine in the draft. He will step into the spot vacated by C Dave Wohlabaugh, who was cut in a salary-cap move and signed by Rams. But we hear that’s not the only move that could be brewing along the Clevelandoffensive line. Incumbent starting ORG Shaun O’Hara will be pushed hard by Qasim Mitchell, a 2002 undrafted free-agent who spent last season on injured reserve. We hear Mitchell could very well overtake O’Hara. The 6-foot-6 Mitchell is said to weigh close to 350 pounds, bulk a Browns source says is largely weight-room muscle, not fat. In his final season at North Carolina A&T in 2001, Mitchell had 62 “pancake” blocks. At the other OG spot, starter Barry Stokes will compete with Melvin Fowler. Fowler was thought to be Wohlabaugh’s successor at center, but the selection of Faine is a clear indication that his future is elsewhere on the line. At the moment, we hear Stokes would rate an edge in the battle for left guard. Should Mitchell take over at right guard, we hear O’Hara could be in the mix at left guard. :boxing:

 
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cracKer

Shawn Culcasi
Who cares if it is fluff, at least it's not an article about him missing camp, failing a drug test, beating his wife/girlfriend/dog, not looking good in practice, etc-etc-etc

Some of you seem to be so one sided. If this were a negative article, you'd treat it as gospel.

 

chinawildman

Footballguy
Some of you seem to be so one sided. If this were a negative article, you'd treat it as gospel.
Agreed, considering the panic that was created from that original article about how 'green may not see the field much' which was entirely based on hearsay from a friend of a wife of a coach or whatever it was...
 
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heavy-set1

Guest
mini-camp propaganda. when was the last time an athelte worked out and got smaller, slower, and weaker. ?can he play defense? thats what cle needs.their oline still blows

 
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humans_being

Footballguy
Three of the worst defenses in the league last year were the Bills, Chiefs, and Chargers.
A valid point, but i don't think Green can be put in the same catagory as Henry, Holmes and Tomlinson. The jury is still out on that one.
 

offdee

Footballguy
A valid point, but i don't think Green can be put in the same catagory as Henry, Holmes and Tomlinson. The jury is still out on that one.
Last year at this time Travis Henry wasn't thought to be anything spectacular either, and look at him now... a legitimate Top 10 RB who has the potential to break into the Top 5.In our jaWs inagural Dynasty Veteran draft last year in May Travis Henry, who was going into his 2nd season just like William Green is this year, was the 18th RB taken...right around, if not lower, than where William Green is being taken presently... almost exactly one year later.Travis Henry's stats his rookie season:213 rushes, 729 yds, 4 rush TD's 22 receptions, 179 yds, 0 rec. TD'sWilliam Green's stats his rookie season243 rushes, 887 yds, 6 rush TD's16 receptions, 113 yds, 0 rec. TD'sThe parallels between Henry and W. Green are actually very similar and I personally could put the two in the same category given the timeframe in their careers.
 

The Boss

Footballguy
Last year at this time Travis Henry wasn't thought to be anything spectacular either, and look at him now... a legitimate Top 10 RB who has the potential to break into the Top 5.In our jaWs inagural Dynasty Veteran draft last year in May Travis Henry, who was going into his 2nd season just like William Green is this year, was the 18th RB taken...right around, if not lower, than where William Green is being taken presently... almost exactly one year later.Travis Henry's stats his rookie season:213 rushes, 729 yds, 4 rush TD's 22 receptions, 179 yds, 0 rec. TD'sWilliam Green's stats his rookie season243 rushes, 887 yds, 6 rush TD's16 receptions, 113 yds, 0 rec. TD'sThe parallels between Henry and W. Green are actually very similar and I personally could put the two in the same category given the timeframe in their careers.
Bravo, bravo. Finally somebody around here who actually has a clue.The short-sightedness of some of the so-called sharks (more like guppies) on this website never ceases to amaze me. Last year at this time Travis Henry was simply a rookie RB who was given a chance to perform and didn't do much of anything impressive with his playing time. People claimed that Henry was average, and most never thought Henry could actually make the strides of improvement he showed last season. Now those very same people that were once down on Henry tout him as a top-ten back. However, the funniest thing about the situation is that a lot of people on this board remain short-sighted. It is out of their understanding that William Green could actually improve on last year's numbers. They are touting William Green as a rookie RB dissapointment and saying he is just average. They will once again make the same mistake on William Green that they already once made on Henry. So be it, underestimate William Green this coming year---I'll be listening a year from now to the current doubters touting William Green as a top-ten RB, just like Henry is being touted now.
 
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humans_being

Footballguy
Last year at this time Travis Henry wasn't thought to be anything spectacular either, and look at him now... a legitimate Top 10 RB who has the potential to break into the Top 5.

In our jaWs inagural Dynasty Veteran draft last year in May Travis Henry, who was going into his 2nd season just like William Green is this year, was the 18th RB taken...right around, if not lower, than where William Green is being taken presently... almost exactly one year later.

Travis Henry's stats his rookie season:

213 rushes, 729 yds, 4 rush TD's

22 receptions, 179 yds, 0 rec. TD's

William Green's stats his rookie season

243 rushes, 887 yds, 6 rush TD's

16 receptions, 113 yds, 0 rec. TD's

The parallels between Henry and W. Green are actually very similar and I personally could put the two in the same category given the timeframe in their careers.
Understandable, however, Henry is/was?(no more Peerless) on a much more dynamic offense. Not to mention a MUCH better OL, and a QB head and shoulders above anything the Browns have. Bottom line: Henry was set up to succeed in year #2. Is Green? IMO no.I can see where you are coming from but i'm not sure i agree. I've been wrong before though, and could certainly be wrong here.

 

Roasters

Footballguy
Last year at this time Travis Henry wasn't thought to be anything spectacular either, and look at him now... a legitimate Top 10 RB who has the potential to break into the Top 5.

In our jaWs inagural Dynasty Veteran draft last year in May Travis Henry, who was going into his 2nd season just like William Green is this year, was the 18th RB taken...right around, if not lower, than where William Green is being taken presently... almost exactly one year later.

Travis Henry's stats his rookie season:

213 rushes, 729 yds, 4 rush TD's

22 receptions, 179 yds, 0 rec. TD's

William Green's stats his rookie season

243 rushes, 887 yds, 6 rush TD's

16 receptions, 113 yds, 0 rec. TD's

The parallels between Henry and W. Green are actually very similar and I personally could put the two in the same category given the timeframe in their careers.
Understandable, however, Henry is/was?(no more Peerless) on a much more dynamic offense. Not to mention a MUCH better OL, and a QB head and shoulders above anything the Browns have. Bottom line: Henry was set up to succeed in year #2. Is Green? IMO no.I can see where you are coming from but i'm not sure i agree. I've been wrong before though, and could certainly be wrong here.
If you'd think back to this time last year then you'd realize that Bledsoe was indeed being hyped BUT you'd also realize that Moulds was going in the 7th round of drafts, Peerless Price was not nearly the name that he is now before the start of last season either. Who knows, maybe Q. Morgan will be really hyped one year from now. Nobody was bragging about the offensive line of the Bills this time last year either. :thumbdown:
 

Frenchy Fuqua

Footballguy
I think if you take out the 4 games against the Steelers and Ravens William Green could have a nice season. He should be in line to score their short TDs but I am guessing that Jamel White is the Browns' 3rd down back. I think he is a good #2 fantasy back.

 
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heavy-set1

Guest
Last year at this time Travis Henry wasn't thought to be anything spectacular either, and look at him now... a legitimate Top 10 RB who has the potential to break into the Top 5.In our jaWs inagural Dynasty Veteran draft last year in May Travis Henry, who was going into his 2nd season just like William Green is this year, was the 18th RB taken...right around, if not lower, than where William Green is being taken presently... almost exactly one year later.Travis Henry's stats his rookie season:213 rushes, 729 yds, 4 rush TD's 22 receptions, 179 yds, 0 rec. TD'sWilliam Green's stats his rookie season243 rushes, 887 yds, 6 rush TD's16 receptions, 113 yds, 0 rec. TD'sThe parallels between Henry and W. Green are actually very similar and I personally could put the two in the same category given the timeframe in their careers.
w.green's success or failure of this season will have nothing to do with travis henry. plus, the situation in cle was nothing like buffalo's. in t.henry's rookie season, the bills were 3-13 and couldnt win in the CFL. plus he was dinged etc. last year they added mike williams (4th overall selection) t.teague (16 game starter in denver) on the o-line and changed o-coordinatiors. and d.bledsoe is a slight upgrade over rob johnson and alex van pelt. is this the case in cle this year?why not people compare w.green to another rb who crapped himself in his 2nd year? and say w.green will follow suit.
 

Genghis Khan

Footballguy
Three years ago, Thomas Jones was a rookie RB who:Had 112 carries for 373 yards, and 32 receptions for 208 yards (2 td's total).How could we have know that in 2002 he would explode to:112 carries for 380 yards, and 21 receptions for 151 yards (5 td's total).Rookie running backs are so predictable to explode the next year.

 

gorf

Footballguy
Geez, tough crowd. I think offdee's post raised some good points. Yes, there are differences between Henry and Green, but there are similarities too. It's June. We're looking for some nugget of information that might help. Of course Green's success or failure will have nothing to do with how Henry performs. That wasn't the point. It was just a comparison.When people contrast the situations, that's helpful too. But let's not pick on the guy who made a valid comparison.

 

chinawildman

Footballguy
LOL talk about sensitive... all offdee did was post an article and restate some of the things in it and Green-haters are jumpin' on it like wild hyenas.

 

offdee

Footballguy
Last year at this time Travis Henry wasn't thought to be anything spectacular either, and look at him now... a legitimate Top 10 RB who has the potential to break into the Top 5.

In our jaWs inagural Dynasty Veteran draft last year in May Travis Henry, who was going into his 2nd season just like William Green is this year, was the 18th RB taken...right around, if not lower, than where William Green is being taken presently... almost exactly one year later.

Travis Henry's stats his rookie season:

213 rushes, 729 yds, 4 rush TD's

22 receptions, 179 yds, 0 rec. TD's

William Green's stats his rookie season

243 rushes, 887 yds, 6 rush TD's

16 receptions, 113 yds, 0 rec. TD's

The parallels between Henry and W. Green are actually very similar and I personally could put the two in the same category given the timeframe in their careers.
Understandable, however, Henry is/was?(no more Peerless) on a much more dynamic offense. Not to mention a MUCH better OL, and a QB head and shoulders above anything the Browns have. Bottom line: Henry was set up to succeed in year #2. Is Green? IMO no.I can see where you are coming from but i'm not sure i agree. I've been wrong before though, and could certainly be wrong here.
If Travis Henry was so "set up to succeed" this past season, and we all knew of the changes taking place to upgrade the offense around him to allow him to succeed than why was Henry still the 18th RB taken in our dynasty draft?I looked up another league's draft full of knowledgable owners last year (redraft league) that I was in and the draft was held on August 20th which was only 2 weeks from the start of the NFL season and Travis Henry was still only the 20th RB selected.....by then preseason games were basically competed and all elements of the team was in place, so we all should've seen how "set up he was to succeed" right?

The reason he was picked so low was because nobody had the foresight to see into the future possibilities of big numbers...rather everyone likes to look to the past for their info and the past showed them that Henry's rookie season wasn't anything spectacular so why should they expect anything special in the future...much like everyone is looking at William Green this year.

Also, to say that the Browns offense isn't dynamic enough for a RB to succeed is beyond me. They have 2 very capable QB's (Holcombe and Couch) and 4 WR's (Morgan, Johnson, Northcutt, Davis) that are plenty dangerous for defenses to have to honor the pass and not key in on the run.

And in regards to the offensive line, the Bills O-line 2 years ago was nothing special either but they used a first round pick to fill a void, much like the Browns did this year to draft Center Jeff Faine out of Notre Dame. Faine was billed as one of the nastiest offensive lineman in this years draft and has already been drawing raves at the Browns camp for his skills and leadership, and was named an instant starter on that O-line. The center is the basis to all offensive line schemes and a major component to the interior running game which is where the Browns had the most trouble finding running room last year so that aspect of their offense will already be instantly improved.

And as was said earlier..you don't need a good defense to put up good RB numbers as was demonstrated from the Bills, Chiefs and Chargers last year.

 

Ozymandias

Footballguy
Three years ago, Thomas Jones was a rookie RB who:Had 112 carries for 373 yards, and 32 receptions for 208 yards (2 td's total).How could we have know that in 2002 he would explode to:112 carries for 380 yards, and 21 receptions for 151 yards (5 td's total).Rookie running backs are so predictable to explode the next year.
LMAO!Thomas Jones couldn't explode if you put a rocket up his rear end.The point is, nobody knows for sure whether a runner like Green will get significantly better, or whether last year is as good as it gets. Henry lucked into a situation where the offense really went wild, and that helped pad his stats. Green may or may not be in a situation where the offense really improves. They have a mini qb controversy, which tells you all is not well in Brownland.
 

offdee

Footballguy
Three years ago, Thomas Jones was a rookie RB who:Had 112 carries for 373 yards, and 32 receptions for 208 yards (2 td's total).How could we have know that in 2002 he would explode to:112 carries for 380 yards, and 21 receptions for 151 yards (5 td's total).Rookie running backs are so predictable to explode the next year.
LMAO!Thomas Jones couldn't explode if you put a rocket up his rear end.The point is, nobody knows for sure whether a runner like Green will get significantly better, or whether last year is as good as it gets. Henry lucked into a situation where the offense really went wild, and that helped pad his stats. Green may or may not be in a situation where the offense really improves. They have a mini qb controversy, which tells you all is not well in Brownland.
LMAO that this "mini-QB" controversy is saying that all is not well in Brownland!All teams should be so lucky to have to decide between two very competent signal callers to lead an offense. As well as the luxury of not missing a beat if one of them happens to go down due to injury.Now I'm not saying that either Couch or Holcombe are world beaters, but this isn't the Cowboys QB controversy in which it needs to be decided of which one of the two crappy QB's is the better one....it's a QB controversy in which it needs to be decided of which one of the two very competent QB's is the better one. Much different situation and definitely not a negative thing for the Browns offense as this QB battle will most likely bring out the best in both Couch and Holcombe and actually become a positive thing for the team.
 

humans_being

Footballguy
Three years ago, Thomas Jones was a rookie RB who:

Had 112 carries for 373 yards, and 32 receptions for 208 yards (2 td's total).

How could we have know that in 2002 he would explode to:

112 carries for 380 yards, and 21 receptions for 151 yards (5 td's total).

Rookie running backs are so predictable to explode the next year.
The point is, nobody knows for sure whether a runner like Green will get significantly better, or whether last year is as good as it gets. Henry lucked into a situation where the offense really went wild, and that helped pad his stats. Green may or may not be in a situation where the offense really improves. They have a mini qb controversy, which tells you all is not well in Brownland.
Exactly what i wasn't getting across when i said "set up to succeed". Lucked into the situatiuon, the stars were aligned...etc..etc. offdee, I just don't see that happening with the Browns. It's not the same. Couch nor Holcombe equal Bledsoe. While very talented, the WR corps in Cleveland does not equal Moulds and Price. And while still a work in progress, the Bills OL was much better than the Browns will be this year. Let's not forget that Henry took most of the snaps when healthy. The same can't be said for Green. Especially now that they re-signed White.

Ain't it great to have varying opinions? :)

 

skbatmen

Footballguy
Part of the problem with Henry's preseason was Shawn Bryson. At the end of the previous season, Henry was hurt. Bryson took the starting job and tallied good stats. Between Bryson and Sammy Morris, Henry was far from a 'sure thing.' I think it is a stretch to say, "Henry was set up to succeed." :thumbup:

 

offdee

Footballguy
Exactly what i wasn't getting across when i said "set up to succeed". Lucked into the situatiuon, the stars were aligned...etc..etc. offdee, I just don't see that happening with the Browns. It's not the same. Couch nor Holcombe equal Bledsoe. While very talented, the WR corps in Cleveland does not equal Moulds and Price. And while still a work in progress, the Bills OL was much better than the Browns will be this year. Let's not forget that Henry took most of the snaps when healthy. The same can't be said for Green. Especially now that they re-signed White. Ain't it great to have varying opinions? :yes:
It is great to have varying opinions to see how people view situations differently...and here is another situation in which I just don't see it the same way as you.I never said that Couch/Holcombe equal Bledsoe, nor did I say the Browns WR's are equal to Moulds/Price....but why does this have any relation to how well a RB will perform?What I did say was that Couch/Holcombe and the Browns WR group is more than capable of being dangerous enough to make a defense honor the pass and not key on the run, and that is all a RB needs in an offense.If anything, I actually believe that the Browns other offensive elements (QB and WR) are set up better to help a RB achieve good numbers than the Bills offense is. When you have a great QB and great WR's than the RB will tend to lose touches due to the other offensive weapons needing to get the ball in their hands. But in the Browns situation they will feel confident in utilizing the passing game when needed because they have very capable players to do that, but the pass is still not the offense's forte which means they will want to lean just as heavily on the running game to move their offense.I hear a lot of you saying that Bledsoe, Moulds and Price were directly related to Travis Henry's success, so why don't you then tell me who the great QB and WR tandem's (FF speaking) were for these teams last year..- Dolphins- Chargers- Chiefs- BroncosNow tell me the RB for each of those teams and let me know if they still did OK last year in the FF world.
 
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heavy-set1

Guest
Part of the problem with Henry's preseason was Shawn Bryson.  At the end of the previous season, Henry was hurt.  Bryson took the starting job and tallied good stats.  Between Bryson and Sammy Morris, Henry was far from a 'sure thing.' I think it is a stretch to say, "Henry was set up to succeed." :yes:
outside of buffalo that was the case, but not if you live here.as for s.bryson, he is a one trick pony, all he can do is run a toss sweep. sure he tore up the great run def. of atl and the jets 2 years ago :rolleyes: , but he was garbage in other games.this entire post can and the article in question should state this:william green worked out in the offseason and caught passes from that automated machine that spits balls out.
 
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heavy-set1

Guest
I never said that Couch/Holcombe equal Bledsoe, nor did I say the Browns WR's are equal to Moulds/Price....but why does this have any relation to how well a RB will perform?
there no relationbut when someone brings up a green/henry compairison, its time to analyze the situations in cle/buffalo. clearly, the cle situation doesnt resemble buffalos of last year.
 
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humans_being

Footballguy
I never said that Couch/Holcombe equal Bledsoe, nor did I say the Browns WR's are equal to Moulds/Price....but why does this have any relation to how well a RB will perform?
there no relationbut when someone brings up a green/henry compairison, its time to analyze the situations in cle/buffalo. clearly, the cle situation doesnt resemble buffalos of last year.
Thank you heavy-set.
 

humans_being

Footballguy
Exactly what i wasn't getting across when i said "set up to succeed". Lucked into the situatiuon, the stars were aligned...etc..etc. offdee, I just don't see that happening with the Browns. It's not the same. Couch nor Holcombe equal Bledsoe. While very talented, the WR corps in Cleveland does not equal Moulds and Price. And while still a work in progress, the Bills OL was much better than the Browns will be this year. Let's not forget that Henry took most of the snaps when healthy. The same can't be said for Green. Especially now that they re-signed White. Ain't it great to have varying opinions? :yes:
I hear a lot of you saying that Bledsoe, Moulds and Price were directly related to Travis Henry's success, so why don't you then tell me who the great QB and WR tandem's (FF speaking) were for these teams last year..- Dolphins- Chargers- Chiefs- BroncosNow tell me the RB for each of those teams and let me know if they still did OK last year in the FF world.
3 out of 4 were already "proven", and the other exploded onto the scene. Unlike Green.
 

offdee

Footballguy
I never said that Couch/Holcombe equal Bledsoe, nor did I say the Browns WR's are equal to Moulds/Price....but why does this have any relation to how well a RB will perform?
there no relationbut when someone brings up a green/henry compairison, its time to analyze the situations in cle/buffalo. clearly, the cle situation doesnt resemble buffalos of last year.
Exactly.And if you would''ve gone on to read the rest of my post after I posed that question, you'll clearly see that I was continuing to compare the Bills and Browns situation and pointing out how the Browns situation could actually be set up better this year than the Bills last year for a RB to have success.
 

offdee

Footballguy
3 out of 4 were already "proven", and the other exploded onto the scene. Unlike Green.
We could do this all day...just going back and forth trying to make points to back our opinions.OK, my turn...3 of them were proven? If I remember right this time last year there was all kinds of talk that LT2 hit the rookie wall at the second half of his rookie season after he finished his rookie season in a slump (much like the reverse of William Green starting out his rookie season in a slump and coming on in the second half), Chargers don't have a passing game so the Defense will put 8 in the box to stop LT2, the Chargers offensive line was crap...blah, blah, blahAnd also around this same time last year was all the talk that Priest Holmes was just a one year fluke, he was merely a product of the system and defenses would figure him out, he's too old..blah, blah, blahYes, there was high hopes for Ricky Williams, but why would the Saints trade him away and rely on an unproven RB...the Saints must know his head must be too messed up, he's going to self destruct, he's not a good enough receiver or have the big play potential that Deuce McCallister does..blah, blah, blahAnd to say Portis exploded onto the scene unlike William Green is all a matter of how you look at it. Green may not have had the overall season that Portis did, but he most certainly did "explode onto the scene" as he was one of the top 5 RB's in FF pts. the final 7 weeks of the season. When the Browns finally put the offense on Green's shoulder's and gave him 20+ carries per game he most certainly produced which related directly to the Browns winning games and leading them into the Playoffs....now why would that successful philosophy all of the sudden change this year?Your turn.
 
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heavy-set1

Guest
We could do this all day...just going back and forth trying to make points to back our opininons.your turn
my turn? iam not going back and forth. iam just shjowing you how your logic is flawediam not the one comparing players (green) to other players (henry) when their situatuions have nothing to do with one another.willie green worked out in the offseason, and caught passes from that automated machine that spits balls out. thats all. now he is t.henry, portis, lt2, williams, and holmes. comparing players does nothing. analyse the situation in cle. their o-line sucks and they re-signed a rb that caught 63 balls a year ago (white). thier defense will likely suck this season. will green and his 16 receptions from a year ago be on the field when its catch-up time / obvious passing situations? or will white? will white play 3rd downs? for me, its a question of opportunity. as of today, i just dont see it.
 
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