William Green: Bigger, Stronger, Faster (1 Viewer)

[heavy-set1]

whether you like to believe it or not...these numbers from last year do not lie.Games 1 thru 9:receptions for William Green: 1receptions for Jamel White: 46Games 10 thru 16:receptions for William Green: 15receptions for Jamel White: 17History told me this.

also,c.dillon's rook year, over his last 8 starts, 933 rush yards and 6 tds. if you took his #s from his starts and projected them to 16 games, you would get 1872 rush yards and 12 tds.guess what c.dillon did?1126 yards, 4 rush tds.let me guess, cle isnt cinn? they had blake, scott, pickens.cle is buffalo?to me, dillon is a better example. dillon and green both poured it on over the last half of a season, etc. henry did nothing in his rookie year. will green pull a dillon, who knows, but i think the situations of green-dillon are more comparable than green-henry. iam sure you disagree, all casue dillons 2nd year isnt good enough for you

 

[offdee]

if you can't assume something like this, than why are you just assuming that Jamel White will continue to steal all those receptions from Green just because he did it last year?whether you like to believe it or not...these numbers from last year do not lie.Games 1 thru 9:receptions for William Green: 1receptions for Jamel White: 46Games 10 thru 16:receptions for William Green: 15receptions for Jamel White: 17History told me this.

last time i checked j.white was on the roster. agreed? i called w.green an unknown. as in, who knows what he will do. yet, after listening to the browns coaches, you seem to think that green is a lock to match his #s over his 7 starts. and then some

The point is, barring injury, Jamel White will not get 63 receptions again this year, and William Green will get more than 16 receptions this year. White will not get the playing time again like he did the first 9 games of the season necessary for him to achieve that number again, and Green will be getting more playing time than he did the first 9 games of the season which will in turn better his numbers. It's as simple as that and if you really think otherwise than you're fooling yourself.And all this garbage you're bringing up about prorating yardage and TD numbers over a season is just making you look immature and ridiculous. If you would take any time at all and read my posts thoroughly instead of just seeing what you want to see and lashing back you would've clearly seen me state this...Now I can foresee already that the bashers will come after me for pro-rating a sampling of numbers over an entire season and how it doesn't hold water...but I'm not pro-rating an area such as Yards or TD's that are dependent on so many factors that it would be impossible to pro-rate them....Rather I'm focusing on an area that can be somewhat predicted since receptions to RB's are in direct relation to a team's offensive concept and how certain players are utilized at their position. It's the same concept of making the safe assumption that LT2 will have 300+ carries and that Marvin Harrison will have 100+ catches because it can be easily predicted how those players will be utilized within their offense...now the amount of yards and TD's resulting from these opportunities is a much different animal and very hard to predict, but that's not what I'm trying to predict here with William Green either. Given all that it's still not an exact science by any means, but it's definitely something to take into consideration when looking at William Green's possible upside this year.Now do you see anywhere in that paragraph of me stating anything about Green producing the same gaudy yardage and TD's in those 7 games over a full season this year? No, I'm simply stating a very realistic projection that Green has a chance to achieve many more receptions this year based on the numbers from last year...and if you'll look at the new FBG projections you'll see that Joe Bryant and David Dodds agree with me as well.They project William Green with 36 receptions and Jamel White with 40 receptions...now that looks eerily similar to the ratio between the two in the last 7 games where Green had 15 receptions and White had 17 receptions now doesn't it and pretty much in line with what I've been saying all along.Joe Bryant and David Dodds must be in good with the Browns coaches as well hey.

 

[heavy-set1]

iam just using your logic against you.you pro-rate catches, i pro-rate yards and tds. you like the catch #s but not the yards and tds. you cant have your cake and eat it too.

 

[offdee]

iam just using your logic against you.you pro-rate catches, i pro-rate yards and tds. you like the catch #s but not the yards and tds. you cant have your cake and eat it too.

Do you really believe what you're saying here?Do you really think Green having between 30-40 catches this year over a 16 game span as the #1 RB on the Browns is unrealistic? I can't believe that such a minimal aspect like this of the overall picture of a player is just tearing you apart to the point where you need to use ridiculous examples to try and help in your defense.You keep pro-rating yards and TD's and keep thinking they have anything in common at all with projecting receptions and just maybe you'll come to the realization that they are two totally different aspects of the game. Listen, I'm not comfortable with getting to the point of personal attacks over such a stupid issue and that is where this is headed....we obviously don't agree and don't seem to be nearing anything close to an agreement so lets just stop wasting our time and let things play out this season and see who's right. We've obviously given the people on these boards enough info to make their own judgements about this situation, so we'll just let them decide for themselves which one of our viewpoints is the more credible one.

 

[heavy-set1]

iam just using your logic against you.you pro-rate catches, i pro-rate yards and tds. you like the catch #s but not the yards and tds. you cant have your cake and eat it too.

Do you really believe what you're saying here?Do you really think Green having between 30-40 catches this year over a 16 game span as the #1 RB on the Browns is unrealistic? I can't believe that such a minimal aspect like this of the overall picture of a player is just tearing you apart to the point where you need to use ridiculous examples to try and help in your defense.You keep pro-rating yards and TD's and keep thinking they have anything in common at all with projecting receptions and just maybe you'll come to the realization that they are two totally different aspects of the game. Listen, I'm not comfortable with getting to the point of personal attacks over such a stupid issue and that is where this is headed....we obviously don't agree and don't seem to be nearing anything close to an agreement so lets just stop wasting our time and let things play out this season and see who's right. We've obviously given the people on these boards enough info to make their own judgements about this situation, so we'll just let them decide for themselves which one of our viewpoints is the more credible one.

iam just using your logic against you.you pro-rate catches, i pro-rate yards and tds. you like the catch #s but not the yards and tds. you cant have your cake and eat it too.

 

[smlevin]

iam just using your logic against you.you pro-rate catches, i pro-rate yards and tds. you like the catch #s but not the yards and tds. you cant have your cake and eat it too.

Do you really believe what you're saying here?Do you really think Green having between 30-40 catches this year over a 16 game span as the #1 RB on the Browns is unrealistic? I can't believe that such a minimal aspect like this of the overall picture of a player is just tearing you apart to the point where you need to use ridiculous examples to try and help in your defense.You keep pro-rating yards and TD's and keep thinking they have anything in common at all with projecting receptions and just maybe you'll come to the realization that they are two totally different aspects of the game. Listen, I'm not comfortable with getting to the point of personal attacks over such a stupid issue and that is where this is headed....we obviously don't agree and don't seem to be nearing anything close to an agreement so lets just stop wasting our time and let things play out this season and see who's right. We've obviously given the people on these boards enough info to make their own judgements about this situation, so we'll just let them decide for themselves which one of our viewpoints is the more credible one.

iam just using your logic against you.you pro-rate catches, i pro-rate yards and tds. you like the catch #s but not the yards and tds. you cant have your cake and eat it too.

The stats don't pro-rate the same way. We generally don't prorate TDs because TDs are streaky. Simlarly, when we prorate yardage, we factor in reasonableness. For receptions (not yardage for those receptions, just pure catches) off has taken the number of times the Browns threw the ball to their two main RBs (Green and White) and projecting a closer to 55-45 split in favor of White. Just like I said, if WGreen is the starter for 16 games, 2-3 catches on average. per game, is reasonable and generates somewhere in the 36-48 reception range. Simple math.I'd say it is wise to take his offer to agree to disagree without putting words in Off's mouth. You obviously feel Green will have about a catch per game, while the vast majority of others feel Green, as the RB starting for Cleveland, will have double that. Off was encouraged by a report that Green is in better shape and has been catching the ball well in mini-camps. You seem not to share that optimism.Now I'm going to duck before I get hit by one of the rocks you two are throwing ast each other. It has been fun to read, though.

 

[Vicktimized]

you arent going off 2 games, but the 2 games you arent going off you are using as an examples of what they can do. that makes perfect sense.

Yeah. An example. When I say I'm not basing it completely off 2 games, I mean I'm also taking into account things like Green's strong finish, Holcomb's solid play, the WR's ability and play throughout the year, AND those last 2 games where they seemed to put everything together. The last 2 games, as I said, are an example. Not the whole basis of my opinion.

 

[bvbarons45]

The only problem is that division rival Jerome Bettis is in the 'best shape' of his career. Jamal Lewis is going for the rushing title. Actually, just about every (non-Hambrick) RB is in the best shape of their careers and are primed to turn it up this year. Heck, even Ron Dayne is reported to be lean and mean. I think Green will do well this year but this article reeks of off season hype.

william green will probably just be mediocre this seen, he doesnt have much of a line to run behind, and the browns drafted two centers in the offseason?? when they were in dire need of guards and tackles, i dont see green doing too much in the backfield. white will be getting some of those carries

 

[heavy-set1]

Yeah. An example. When I say I'm not basing it completely off 2 games, I mean I'm also taking into account things like Green's strong finish, Holcomb's solid play, the WR's ability and play throughout the year, AND those last 2 games where they seemed to put everything together. The last 2 games, as I said, are an example. Not the whole basis of my opinion.

so, you arent using the 2 games, but you are using the 2 games

 

[Duke1948]

Thomas Jones couldn't explode if you put a rocket up his rear end.

man that's classic :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

 

[Vicktimized]

Yeah. An example. When I say I'm not basing it completely off 2 games, I mean I'm also taking into account things like Green's strong finish, Holcomb's solid play, the WR's ability and play throughout the year, AND those last 2 games where they seemed to put everything together. The last 2 games, as I said, are an example. Not the whole basis of my opinion.

so, you arent using the 2 games, but you are using the 2 games"you are basing your conclusions on 2 games? "

You asked earlier if I was basing my conclusions on 2 games. I answered I wasn't basing my conclusions entirely off 2 games, just that the Browns flashed serious potential in those 2 games. I do put stock into games I see, if that's what you're asking.You asked if that was the basis of my argument. I answered no. This should be settled. I already mentioned the various other reasons that I think they might be in for a big year, 'besides' the Atl/Pittsburgh games.And back on the Green note, the reason people are so high on him has nothing to do with the expectation that he'll reach these outrageous, pro-rated stats. It's because in his last 7 regular season games, 7 games in a row that correlated with his playing better, the light went on for him. It would lend itself to the idea that Green is getting better, and could put up more games like we saw at the tail end of last year. He may not gain 2500 total yards and score 19 TD's, but showing the ability to perhaps go 1200-1400 and 12-13, like Henry before him, would be pretty damn good.

 

[offdee]

Last year at this time Travis Henry wasn't thought to be anything spectacular either, and look at him now... a legitimate Top 10 RB who has the potential to break into the Top 5.

In our jaWs inagural Dynasty Veteran draft last year in May Travis Henry, who was going into his 2nd season just like William Green is this year, was the 18th RB taken...right around, if not lower, than where William Green is being taken presently... almost exactly one year later.

Travis Henry's stats his rookie season:

213 rushes, 729 yds, 4 rush TD's

22 receptions, 179 yds, 0 rec. TD's

William Green's stats his rookie season

243 rushes, 887 yds, 6 rush TD's

16 receptions, 113 yds, 0 rec. TD's

The parallels between Henry and W. Green are actually very similar and I personally could put the two in the same category given the timeframe in their careers.

Understandable, however, Henry is/was?(no more Peerless) on a much more dynamic offense. Not to mention a MUCH better OL, and a QB head and shoulders above anything the Browns have. Bottom line: Henry was set up to succeed in year #2. Is Green? IMO no.I can see where you are coming from but i'm not sure i agree. I've been wrong before though, and could certainly be wrong here.

If Travis Henry was so "set up to succeed" this past season, and we all knew of the changes taking place to upgrade the offense around him to allow him to succeed than why was Henry still the 18th RB taken in our dynasty draft?I looked up another league's draft full of knowledgable owners last year (redraft league) that I was in and the draft was held on August 20th which was only 2 weeks from the start of the NFL season and Travis Henry was still only the 20th RB selected.....by then preseason games were basically competed and all elements of the team was in place, so we all should've seen how "set up he was to succeed" right?

The reason he was picked so low was because nobody had the foresight to see into the future possibilities of big numbers...rather everyone likes to look to the past for their info and the past showed them that Henry's rookie season wasn't anything spectacular so why should they expect anything special in the future...much like everyone is looking at William Green this year.

Also, to say that the Browns offense isn't dynamic enough for a RB to succeed is beyond me. They have 2 very capable QB's (Holcombe and Couch) and 4 WR's (Morgan, Johnson, Northcutt, Davis) that are plenty dangerous for defenses to have to honor the pass and not key in on the run.

And in regards to the offensive line, the Bills O-line 2 years ago was nothing special either but they used a first round pick to fill a void, much like the Browns did this year to draft Center Jeff Faine out of Notre Dame. Faine was billed as one of the nastiest offensive lineman in this years draft and has already been drawing raves at the Browns camp for his skills and leadership, and was named an instant starter on that O-line. The center is the basis to all offensive line schemes and a major component to the interior running game which is where the Browns had the most trouble finding running room last year so that aspect of their offense will already be instantly improved.

And as was said earlier..you don't need a good defense to put up good RB numbers as was demonstrated from the Bills, Chiefs and Chargers last year.

It looks as though some of the writers at www.fantasyfootballchamps.com were doing a little lurking in this thread and liked what they saw.Is it just a coincidence that this discussion took place on 6/13/03 and then on 6/18/03 this article pops up?

http://www.fantasyfootballchamps.com/index...eturnStartRow=1

 

[noneother]

Suggs will pass all the CLE RBs and be starting next season....toss out the old couch, let the colors run...and KJ and Peter Warrick can own the state of Ohio as "never beens"go browns

 

[chinawildman]

Suggs will pass all the CLE RBs and be starting next season....toss out the old couch, let the colors run...and KJ and Peter Warrick can own the state of Ohio as "never beens"go browns

Any reason you think that Green, a first round pick, whose junior season was superior to any season Suggs ever had, will be replaced by a fourth round pick with a history of injuries?

 

[noneother]

Suggs will pass all the CLE RBs and be starting next season....toss out the old couch, let the colors run...and KJ and Peter Warrick can own the state of Ohio as "never beens"go browns

Any reason you think that Green, a first round pick, whose junior season was superior to any season Suggs ever had, will be replaced by a fourth round pick with a history of injuries?

Sure.... first Boston College vs VAtech, second what's the history beyond the knee?? the small spine thing?? that's a crock...they just started screening for that in the last few years, so far it means nothing, the shoulder?? again bah, a cuff that they tweaked, it's all good...suggs had a pretty damn good season splitting time with Jones...his first year back...idling into next year...no sweat

 

[gianmarco]

What can we learn here?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

What can we learn here?

Something about Trent Richardson?

 

[KellysHeroes]

What can we learn here?

Something about Trent Richardson?

I think Blackmon, sometimes talent isn't worth the trouble

 

[squistion]

What can we learn here?

Something about Trent Richardson?

That exploding sound you hear is EBF's head.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

What can we learn here?

guys with major mental/substance abuse issues are a huge risk?

 

[KCitons]

What can we learn here?

The Shark Pool really hasn't gone downhill?

 

[lsutigers]

You couldn't believe everything you read on the internets in 2003?

 

[cstu]

What can we learn here?

Something about Trent Richardson?

Exactly the thought that went through my mind.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Who William Green is?

 

[Fiddles]

Last year at this time Travis Henry wasn't thought to be anything spectacular either, and look at him now... a legitimate Top 10 RB who has the potential to break into the Top 5.In our jaWs inagural Dynasty Veteran draft last year in May Travis Henry, who was going into his 2nd season just like William Green is this year, was the 18th RB taken...right around, if not lower, than where William Green is being taken presently... almost exactly one year later.Travis Henry's stats his rookie season:213 rushes, 729 yds, 4 rush TD's 22 receptions, 179 yds, 0 rec. TD'sWilliam Green's stats his rookie season243 rushes, 887 yds, 6 rush TD's16 receptions, 113 yds, 0 rec. TD'sThe parallels between Henry and W. Green are actually very similar and I personally could put the two in the same category given the timeframe in their careers.

Bravo, bravo. Finally somebody around here who actually has a clue.The short-sightedness of some of the so-called sharks (more like guppies) on this website never ceases to amaze me. Last year at this time Travis Henry was simply a rookie RB who was given a chance to perform and didn't do much of anything impressive with his playing time. People claimed that Henry was average, and most never thought Henry could actually make the strides of improvement he showed last season. Now those very same people that were once down on Henry tout him as a top-ten back. However, the funniest thing about the situation is that a lot of people on this board remain short-sighted. It is out of their understanding that William Green could actually improve on last year's numbers. They are touting William Green as a rookie RB dissapointment and saying he is just average. They will once again make the same mistake on William Green that they already once made on Henry. So be it, underestimate William Green this coming year---I'll be listening a year from now to the current doubters touting William Green as a top-ten RB, just like Henry is being touted now.

Bravo!

 

[Shatner!]

No Onterrio Smith. But who is.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I was always a Lee Suggs man myself.

 

[fatness]

Did he ever find his other shoe and sock?

 

[Bri]

What can we learn here?

I remember that draft some. It's a really good one to discuss every year.

TJ Duckett and William Green went in the first and it was considered an especially poor RB class.

Both probably were (would have been) fine backups for 10 years, fill in for a game or somesuch. Green was quickly their lead back and overwhelmed, out of his element etc. There's a definite "it is what it is" lesson there for GMs, but also for us fans....never underestimate a GM when it comes to stud positions.

IIRC Green was late first maybe second, closer to the draft he was second rounder yet in a better draft he'd have gone third round.

Once a GM takes him that early he (the GM) is locked in. We gauge our GMs (maybe too much) productivity on how they do with their first rounders. The Browns were not a good team-that said they almost had to start him and treat him like the feature back most 1st rounders are. There's a whole slippery slope here.

Soon enough, the Browns had a pretty good backfield of third round types. (I think Suggs went fourth or fifth but was supposed to be a third.) They needed a sled dog and they wound up with a slew of guys that probably could have been good quality backups-not coincidentally for about 3 years we FFers always liked the backup as a guy to pickup.

The Browns had a pretty good staff then. Butch Davis may have been a terrible NFL HC by some, but Couch just took a beating every Sunday and their best WR wasn't 6 feet tall and their RBs were third rounders. Davis had a decent staff in place, it could have worked out if they had talent to coach.

 

[Bri]

went to PFR

Suggs was fourth, Jamel White looks like undrafted, Jackson was third.

Staff was Davis HC, Bruce Arians as OC, Foge Fazio as DC with Campo replacing him the next year. Todd Bowles and Chuck Pagano were on staff too.

 

[cr8f]

No Onterrio Smith. But who is.

Damn

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

:retrostyle:

 

[CoachJankySpanky]

I was always a Lee Suggs man myself.

I was partial to Ben Gay. I remember thinking I had gotten the next big thing off the WW before my leaguemates had ever even heard of him. For as much as I touted him afterwards, I still get a little grief about it.

 

[Gandalf]

Lee Suggs, Ben Gay... You guys are taking me back to a very nostalgic place!

 

[ghostguy123]

Suggs, what coulda been.

The browns have had a lot of players since 1999 who probably would have been considered great if they had gone to a stable team. Also a shiiitttstorm of busts.

 

[ghostguy123]

Lee Suggs, Ben Gay... You guys are taking me back to a very nostalgic place!

Jamel white for me, Haha. I ran a 5k in mentor, Ohio this past summer and Jamel was there with his girl who was running.

Will never forget. Me and a few friends did a 1 week fantasy draft in the 4 oclock games for like week 15 or something a long time ago. My idiot friends first round pick was Jamel white, swear to god. I don't even think he went into that game against green bay as the starter, but he had like 200 yards in the snow.

 

[johnnyboy8102]

Jamel White was an early Darren Sproles prototype?

 

[KellysHeroes]

I had Droughns

 

[Bojang0301]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/former-browns-player-william-green-has-gone-from-drug-user-to-motivator-120754795.html

Someone is back in the news.

 

[cstu]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/former-browns-player-william-green-has-gone-from-drug-user-to-motivator-120754795.html

Someone is back in the news.

A bump for a positive story?

 

[cstu]

Run, William, Run

That put the Browns into the playoffs, which was the last time they were in.

 

[jurb26]

Wow, can't believe you found this one in the archives.

 

[Dez]

Ah this thread brings me back to my 2003 Fantasy Jungle draft. That was the first year I did a mid/high stakes draft. 72 total teams, 6 leagues of 12. I decided from the 8 hole to roll out the WR/WR/WR/WR drafting strategy which was unheard of at that time. William Green was the key pick of my draft because he went to the guy right in front of me in the 2nd round at 2.04 allowing me to get my guy Randy Moss at 2.05. After the draft was over people were posting on the message board about "what was that guy smoking who took all the good WR's" and "that strategy will never work"...came within 1 play in week 16 on Monday night from winning the overall title that year was the night Favre threw 5 first half TD's after his father passed away a few days earlier will never forget that season despite the painful ending but proving the doubters wrong was one of highlights of my fantasy career.

 

[amnesiac]

I was always a Lee Suggs man myself.

Lee Suggs was awesome. just couldn't stay healthy :(