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With Randy Moss, would the Patriots beat the Jets? (1 Viewer)
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Crash Davis
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Well, first of all, I think the Patriots win that game at home 7 times out of 10. IMO, they are a better team than the Jets. If they played 10 times, the typical result would be neither 45-3 nor yesterday's loss, but a close win for the Pats. And I also think that they lost yesterday's game more due to schemes and decision making than to talent on the field.
That being said, very often in playoff games weaknesses in your team that you were able to cover up during the regular season are exposed. And one of New England's main weaknesses is that they have no one to stretch the field, and they haven't since Moss left. That allowed the Jets secondary to glue themselves to the Pats' WRs and forced Brady to check down most of the game. So yes, I think it would have made a big difference yesterday. But of course the Jets would have changed their scheme to deal with Moss as well, and Revis is an exceptional talent. So I can't say that ONE player would have been decisive. But the Pats would have benefited by having more speed at the WR position and my guess is that they will address this in the offseason.
That being said, very often in playoff games weaknesses in your team that you were able to cover up during the regular season are exposed. And one of New England's main weaknesses is that they have no one to stretch the field, and they haven't since Moss left. That allowed the Jets secondary to glue themselves to the Pats' WRs and forced Brady to check down most of the game. So yes, I think it would have made a big difference yesterday. But of course the Jets would have changed their scheme to deal with Moss as well, and Revis is an exceptional talent. So I can't say that ONE player would have been decisive. But the Pats would have benefited by having more speed at the WR position and my guess is that they will address this in the offseason.
Yeah, i think so. I think a Randy Moss playing up to his abilities makes a huge difference. It takes Revis out of the game, and perhaps causes him to pull up lame after being burnt for TDs like the regular season, lol. Yesterday I was actually rooting for the Jets, but now after all this #### that the Pats are taking, I kind of wish i would have used my "rooting power" and rooted the Pats to victory yesterday! Ah god, what have I done?!?!
doowain
Footballguy
The Pats o-line was brutally bad yesterday. That is the main factor in Brady's "bad" game.They lost that game in the trenches. I can definitely say I'm surprised.
switz
Footballguy
Stop making excuses. Brady's QB rating for the first half was in the 50s, and his end numbers only looked good due to garbage numbers at the end of the game.And it wasn't the OLs fault at all. Brady threw a pick on his first drive, and he wasn't getting hit or anything at the time. Sure he did get sacked like 4 times maybe, but he hold onto the ball way too long. His OL was average, not great, not bad either.The Pats o-line was brutally bad yesterday. That is the main factor in Brady's "bad" game.They lost that game in the trenches. I can definitely say I'm surprised.
doowain
Footballguy
Excuses? I'm not a Pats fan, so I'm not sure what "excuses" I'm making.Go back and rewatch the game. He was under constant harassment the entire game. It wasn't the o-line's fault 100%, as the RBs seemed to miss a lot of blitzing LBs, but they certainly weren't average.Question: in your post....were you saying Brady "sucks so badly", as in "he sucked so badly IN YESTERDAY'S GAME" or "he sucks so badly PERIOD"?Stop making excuses. Brady's QB rating for the first half was in the 50s, and his end numbers only looked good due to garbage numbers at the end of the game.And it wasn't the OLs fault at all. Brady threw a pick on his first drive, and he wasn't getting hit or anything at the time. Sure he did get sacked like 4 times maybe, but he hold onto the ball way too long. His OL was average, not great, not bad either.
Crash Davis
Footballguy
I suspect many feel this same way, but the fact remains that they've played 3 times this year and the Jets have won 2, so I guess the Pats will win 6 of the next 7.
They've played twice and are 1-1. So the OP thinks they would win 6 out of next 8.I suspect many feel this same way, but the fact remains that they've played 3 times this year and the Jets have won 2, so I guess the Pats will win 6 of the next 7.
Hang 10
Footballguy
The line did fine. I'd put almost all those sacks on Brady or the coverage. Brady looked like a deer in the headlights yesterday. Very uncharacteristic of Mr. Perfect.The Pats o-line was brutally bad yesterday. That is the main factor in Brady's "bad" game.They lost that game in the trenches. I can definitely say I'm surprised.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Crash Davis
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Who won that down?Who won that game?
Having been at the game and watched much of it again, I don't think stretching the field was the problem. Moss wouldn't have mattered and I'm not sure the team would have been hosting a playoff game or in the playoffs with Randy. I've gotten the filling that Moss wanted out to rack up some big #'s for a BIG contract and he wasn't going to get resigned by NE for it or more importantly get the BIG #'s to get it else where so going to MIN offered that possibility.
Poor execution by NE and lack of a timely big play by the D was. While you can argue that it was the NY D, NE won games all year against good teams by executing a solid game plan and taking advantage of match ups on offense and defense. That had opportunities but miss fired. I think NY played a simple game and executed it well. They made a couple of big plays and that was the story.
A tell tale sign of the simple game plan was after the Brady INT by Harris. First & 10 inside the NE 20 and you don't take a shot into the end zone? Even not trying to run the fade to Holmes that they scored on later in the game which is a VERY safe play TD, PI, or incompletion.
Poor execution by NE and lack of a timely big play by the D was. While you can argue that it was the NY D, NE won games all year against good teams by executing a solid game plan and taking advantage of match ups on offense and defense. That had opportunities but miss fired. I think NY played a simple game and executed it well. They made a couple of big plays and that was the story.
A tell tale sign of the simple game plan was after the Brady INT by Harris. First & 10 inside the NE 20 and you don't take a shot into the end zone? Even not trying to run the fade to Holmes that they scored on later in the game which is a VERY safe play TD, PI, or incompletion.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I already showed one example of how Moss could have made a difference.
The Patriots wanted to increase their time of possession to help their young defense. Moss wanted more targets than he was getting and a big contract. So I understand why they got rid of Moss.
BUT Moss is a player who can change a game. So hell yes I think he could have made a difference.
The Patriots wanted to increase their time of possession to help their young defense. Moss wanted more targets than he was getting and a big contract. So I understand why they got rid of Moss.
BUT Moss is a player who can change a game. So hell yes I think he could have made a difference.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
munchkin
Footballguy
Moving Moss was the right thing to do.
Brady hurt the team early yesterday with that interception on the attempted screen. The team was moving the ball again (after the Jets missed the field goal having moved the ball in the wrong direction to begin with) and Crumpler dropped Brady's pass in the End Zone.
The defense played well early but with the Offense not putting up the early points as they had been doing through most of the games after the loss in Cleveland Sanchez had time to find his rhythm and the Jets gained confidence, and took the momentum, from there on.
I wonder if the younger players Tate, Gronk and Hernandez had a hard time adjusting to the various coverage schemes the Jets through at them and didn't have the experience to find the openings in the defense to give Brady a place to throw the ball.
Moss was not going to be a plus for this team. The Jets played very well as a team, Sanchez made some great passes and the Patriots were out coached.
Brady hurt the team early yesterday with that interception on the attempted screen. The team was moving the ball again (after the Jets missed the field goal having moved the ball in the wrong direction to begin with) and Crumpler dropped Brady's pass in the End Zone.
The defense played well early but with the Offense not putting up the early points as they had been doing through most of the games after the loss in Cleveland Sanchez had time to find his rhythm and the Jets gained confidence, and took the momentum, from there on.
I wonder if the younger players Tate, Gronk and Hernandez had a hard time adjusting to the various coverage schemes the Jets through at them and didn't have the experience to find the openings in the defense to give Brady a place to throw the ball.
Moss was not going to be a plus for this team. The Jets played very well as a team, Sanchez made some great passes and the Patriots were out coached.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The Jets rushed with 3 or 4 players on 86% of their defensive downs.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I didn't watch the game as I could care less for either team. Just saying that Moss could make a difference for any team.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I do think the Patriots suffered by having no difference makers at the non-QB skill positions. They're all system guys (except maybe Gronkowski - time will tell). There's no one you have to game plan for except Brady. Welker's great at what he does, but without anyone else to stretch the field around him he's nowhere near as effective. Branch, meh - another nice NFL slot guy. Hernandez is a WR posing as a TE (prediction: they'll find a better WR, and already have a better TE - his role will diminish). Woodhead and BJGE are great stories and serviceable in a role, but you're not afraid of either guy. Grownkowski may be the exception, but he's a rookie and not ready to be 'the man' today.
It's a testament to Brady and the coaching that they won so many games - but a really good defense that's seen you twice already will have a good chance to come up with a solution. It's mostly a matter of having guys in the right spot and being disciplined, you don't have to make superhuman individual plays to prevent a guy from beating you.
It's a testament to Brady and the coaching that they won so many games - but a really good defense that's seen you twice already will have a good chance to come up with a solution. It's mostly a matter of having guys in the right spot and being disciplined, you don't have to make superhuman individual plays to prevent a guy from beating you.
az_prof
Footballguy
Yes, he would have made a difference and MAYBE they would have won. If nothing else he would have drawn Revis and opened up things for Welker. He would have stretched D, which would have opened up things underneath for the TEs too. People underestimate his value to NE.
massraider
Footballguy
Jets pass rushers getting to Brady yesterday wasn't the big problem. Brady imagining Jets pass rushers getting to him was much more of a problem.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
No. They've played three times and won two just like the poster you quoted stated.They've played twice and are 1-1. So the OP thinks they would win 6 out of next 8.I suspect many feel this same way, but the fact remains that they've played 3 times this year and the Jets have won 2, so I guess the Pats will win 6 of the next 7.
timschochet
Footballguy
Actually, no. I think the Pats would win 7 out of 10, but that number starts over every time they play. So if the 2010 Jets were to play the 2010 Patriots at New England again, I would give the Jets a 30% chance of winning again.They've played twice and are 1-1. So the OP thinks they would win 6 out of next 8.I suspect many feel this same way, but the fact remains that they've played 3 times this year and the Jets have won 2, so I guess the Pats will win 6 of the next 7.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Yeah, he really made a difference for all three teams he played for this year.
And major 
at you talking about a game you admit you didn't even watch.
I think the Jets would win 7 out of 10. They won 2 out of 3 this year, so my 70% prediction is more realistic than your 30% prediction.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
bulger2holt
Footballguy
The 2001 Rams would have beat the 2001 Pats 8 out of 9 times too. They just lost at the wrong time. The same thing for the Pats yesterday. It happens.
OP said they win 7 of 10 AT HOME not 7-10 in general. They've played twice in Gillette this year and are 1-1. See the bolded part of the original post.No. They've played three times and won two just like the poster you quoted stated.They've played twice and are 1-1. So the OP thinks they would win 6 out of next 8.I suspect many feel this same way, but the fact remains that they've played 3 times this year and the Jets have won 2, so I guess the Pats will win 6 of the next 7.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The original poster asked us what we think about this. So I put my 2 cents in.I am a long time fan of Randy Moss.So why make that statement then?
Why are you posting in here?
BTW glad I made you laff Ghost Rider.
Hang 10
Footballguy
The Pats played terrible. Jets were up 14-0 or 14-3 (can't recall) and they should have put the Pats away, but they let em' hang on. They'll get that as they get used to winning big I guess. It could have easily been far worse. Sure I credit the Jets as the reason the Pats played terrible.The Jets could have rushed one guy and he'd have gotten to Brady. The Jets CBs had the game of their lives-they probably didn't blanket people that well in peewee. I mean they were awesome. It doesn't matter if it's Moss or Owens or Fitzgerald or Rice or....those CBs were phenomenal especially Revis. You watch sometime this offseason there's going to be a Revis HOF thread as this lingers. When Pats fans sit here and say "this guy" made one good play, remember that? Clearly the rest stunk and surely weren't noteworthy. A whole new team might have beaten the Jets. The Pats on another day-yeah sure maybe, but the Pats that played yesterday probably couldn't have beaten the Panthers or Browns or Lions. Moss wouldn't have mattered.From that 14 point mark on people are trying to find a way to give the Pats credit. There's none, the Jets just didn't have that killer instinct great teams have.There was two or three plays that BB clearly scripted and they were as artistic as football ever gets. A thing of beauty. There were a couple sweet TE catches.There was a fouled coverage where Branch caught a pass underneath and curiously had a huge cushion.There were some excellent tough runs, but if they actually had blockers Law-firm wouldn't need to be making such a tough four yards. You can't watch the game and ignore that before and after this they stunk. It was (scuze the cliche) a good old fashioned beatdown. They'd have needed a whole 'nother team, not just Moss, to beat the Jets.Oh yeah and Brady looked like Bledsoe
netnalp
Footballguy
Brady's been jumping at shadows ever since the shelling he took from the Giants in the Super Bowl, compounded by the season ending injury in 2008.Yeah somehow the Giants superbowl affected Brady yesterday. Wow.
parrot
Footballguy
The Pats played over their heads all year. It finally caught up with them.
Fensalk
Footballguy
What I saw was the Jets blanketing the WRs as much as possible, while there were some crater sized holes to run through. I saw Danny Woodhead and BJGE have some nice runs where they were largely untouched. It was a day for the Patriots to run the football a ton but they didn't do it. I think the Patriots didn't respect the Jets enough to make that adjustment.
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They ran the ball too much in the 4th qtr- took nearly 8 minutes off the clock on one drive and came away with zero points. Some questionable playcalling for sure.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
netnalp
Footballguy
Not what i said. He's gotten in the habit of being jumpy in the pocket since then.Yeah somehow the Giants superbowl affected Brady yesterday. Wow.Brady's been jumping at shadows ever since the shelling he took from the Giants in the Super Bowl, compounded by the season ending injury in 2008.
Boston
Footballguy
I agree with this line of thinking (i.e. lack of playmakers) although moreso when it comes to their D...one of the issues I believe BB has is he's too much of a believer in his system...when things are going right the Pats make it look easy as all the parts are in sync...yet, when the system breaks down or if they're having an off game like yesterday they do not have the type of players that can make the big play that can get you over the hump...the difference between the Pats of this era and the one that won the three titles is guys like Vrabel, Bruschi, Willie,Ty Law and Rodney all could make a huge play on the defensive-side of the ball...with the possible exception of McCorty and maybe Chung (they may have that type of ability but we really don't know yet) the Pats don't have that on defense right now...last offseason the Pats appeared to have an opportunity to get Julius Peppers...add that type of player to the Pats and who knows maybe he makes that play or two that changes yesterday's outcome...hopefully they can dig up a few more playmakers because right now they do not have a champioship-level defense...
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Fensalk
Footballguy
Brady would get up and under center quickly, but then would wait a long time to snap the ball. That was a bigger issue. I saw a false start on a WR at one point and I think it was because the WR was getting anxious to run a play and save time.
2007 Moss or 2010 Moss? 2010 Moss couldn't take anyone out of any game.Besides, Revis/Cromartie were both playing one-on-one against Welker/Branch the whole game, so I can't imagine they'd play any different against Welker/Moss.
