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World's Greatest Draft (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
timschochet
Footballguy
Lincoln is obviously one of the greatest of American heroes, (and in my opinion, our greatest President, though Andy ranked him #3), but I'm wondering what the rest of the world thinks of him. The United States is such a new country compared to most of the world. If you're a student in Italy or Japan, do you think Lincoln is a name you learn about? Just wondering...
Ozymandias
Footballguy
In Latin America, he is very highly thought of. P.S. I believe that in North Korea, not so much.
dparker713
Footballguy
Ahh, but there is a right answer on the final.
Abrantes
Footballguy
Question concerning the categories. I'm unclear on the judging parameters for the Musician/Performer category. Are the chosen figures in this category being judged purely on their performance? Say Band X has terrible songwriting skills, but puts on one of the greatest live acts of all time. Is that what this category is looking for? Pure performance? Or is the whole package taken into account?
timschochet
Footballguy
Whole package. I did not mean live performances, per se. Recordings are fine too. I'm just separating this from the writers of the music, (though even that you can take into account.)It's basically a means to include popular music in the mix.
Abrantes
Footballguy
Phew.
Orange Crush
Footballguy
Thank goodness Short Story author was added to the Novelist category. That way Tolstoy can be included as he's the least long-winded of the Russian novelists.
timschochet
Footballguy
A Russian short story is around 600 pages and covers about ten years of misery rather than the standard century or two...
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
AcerFC
Footballguy
It was Beethoven :airguitar:
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
wasn't sure... and its not like Bill & Ted knew... lol
thatguy
Footballguy
Interesting pick here. I feel like there is at least one other U.S. Leader who belongs before Lincoln. Perhaps more.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Probably just one. The interesting thing about American Presidents relative to the other leaders who will be chosen is that they will, in most cases, have vastly less power and influence than their counterparts. It really wouldn't surprise me if only one or two more are chosen, and one might be better in another category.
Fennis
Footballguy
checking in.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
I don't either. But he's very arguably the #1 military guy.I could be convinced otherwise, but I don't think Genghis is the #1 leader.And flush goes my dream of stealing the top spot in two categories...So in other words, he got involved in a land war in Asia...AND WON. Beat that!!!There were probably some other picks that might be "bigger" but I expect this draft to be Euro/American centric in its selections and I wanted to get one of the top Asian selections in my bag.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
Every happy Russian short story is alike. But every unhappy Russian short story is unhappy in its own way.
As a famous American lyricist once wrote""With love to lead the wayI've found more clouds of grayThan any Russian play could guarantee"
Usual21
Footballguy
I was contemplating between Lincoln & another President. I'm pretty sure that I know who you guys are talking about. I picked Lincoln because he led our country through a tough time when the Nation was at war with itself and also led to the freedom of the slaves. The Emancipation Proclamation was one of the most important documents in our nation's history even with some of it's hidden agendas.
Usual21
Footballguy
2.07 - Abraham Lincoln - Leader
Abraham Lincoln (February 12, 1809 – April 15, 1865) was the 16th President of the United States. He successfully led the country through its greatest internal crisis, the American Civil War, preserving the Union and ending slavery. As the war was drawing to a close, Lincoln became the first American president to be assassinated. Before his election in 1860 as the first Republican president, Lincoln had been a country lawyer, an Illinois state legislator, a member of the United States House of Representatives, and twice an unsuccessful candidate for election to the U.S. Senate.
As an outspoken opponent of the expansion of slavery in the United States, Lincoln won the Republican Party nomination in 1860 and was elected president later that year. His tenure in office was occupied primarily with the defeat of the secessionist Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. He introduced measures that resulted in the abolition of slavery, issuing his Emancipation Proclamation in 1863 and promoting the passage of the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution, which passed Congress before Lincoln's death and was ratified by the states later in 1865.
Lincoln closely supervised the victorious war effort, especially the selection of top generals, including Ulysses S. Grant. Historians have concluded that he handled the factions of the Republican Party well, bringing leaders of each faction into his cabinet and forcing them to cooperate. Lincoln successfully defused the Trent Affair, a war scare with Britain in 1861. Under his leadership, the Union took control of the border slave states at the start of the war. Additionally, he managed his own reelection in the 1864 presidential election.
Copperheads and other opponents of the war criticized Lincoln for refusing to compromise on the slavery issue. Conversely, the Radical Republicans, an abolitionist faction of the Republican Party, criticized him for moving too slowly in abolishing slavery. Even with these road blocks, Lincoln successfully rallied public opinion through his rhetoric and speeches; his Gettysburg Address is but one example of this. At the close of the war, Lincoln held a moderate view of Reconstruction, seeking to speedily reunite the nation through a policy of generous reconciliation. His successor in the White House, Andrew Johnson, also wanted reconciliation among white Americans, but failed to protect the rights of newly freed slaves. Lincoln's assassination in 1865 was the first presidential assassination in U.S. history. He has since consistently been ranked by scholars as one of the greatest U.S. Presidents.
Abraham Lincoln (February 12, 1809 – April 15, 1865) was the 16th President of the United States. He successfully led the country through its greatest internal crisis, the American Civil War, preserving the Union and ending slavery. As the war was drawing to a close, Lincoln became the first American president to be assassinated. Before his election in 1860 as the first Republican president, Lincoln had been a country lawyer, an Illinois state legislator, a member of the United States House of Representatives, and twice an unsuccessful candidate for election to the U.S. Senate.
As an outspoken opponent of the expansion of slavery in the United States, Lincoln won the Republican Party nomination in 1860 and was elected president later that year. His tenure in office was occupied primarily with the defeat of the secessionist Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. He introduced measures that resulted in the abolition of slavery, issuing his Emancipation Proclamation in 1863 and promoting the passage of the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution, which passed Congress before Lincoln's death and was ratified by the states later in 1865.
Lincoln closely supervised the victorious war effort, especially the selection of top generals, including Ulysses S. Grant. Historians have concluded that he handled the factions of the Republican Party well, bringing leaders of each faction into his cabinet and forcing them to cooperate. Lincoln successfully defused the Trent Affair, a war scare with Britain in 1861. Under his leadership, the Union took control of the border slave states at the start of the war. Additionally, he managed his own reelection in the 1864 presidential election.
Copperheads and other opponents of the war criticized Lincoln for refusing to compromise on the slavery issue. Conversely, the Radical Republicans, an abolitionist faction of the Republican Party, criticized him for moving too slowly in abolishing slavery. Even with these road blocks, Lincoln successfully rallied public opinion through his rhetoric and speeches; his Gettysburg Address is but one example of this. At the close of the war, Lincoln held a moderate view of Reconstruction, seeking to speedily reunite the nation through a policy of generous reconciliation. His successor in the White House, Andrew Johnson, also wanted reconciliation among white Americans, but failed to protect the rights of newly freed slaves. Lincoln's assassination in 1865 was the first presidential assassination in U.S. history. He has since consistently been ranked by scholars as one of the greatest U.S. Presidents.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
Please, no more spotlighting of G.W.Bush.
Doug B
Footballguy
Since "SEW-CRATES" was taken, I've been waiting on the reference to this movie.
HERBERT THE HIPPO
REAL Ultimate Power
C'mon guys, Lincoln is a MUCH worse pick than Tesla..... throw some abuse this guys way.
John Maddens Lunchbox
Footballguy
When I made my pick of Alexander in R1 I was choosing between 4 people.
Alexander
Genghis Khan
Charles Darwin
The above 2 I’d put in a different categories to what they’ve been drafted under, but that’s another story.
My other choice is still here and I’m going to take it.
Tremendous value at this point and a phenomenon the likes of which we’ll probably never see again.
Their impact is still enormous now and will be in future.
They were the first singer/songwriters to go mega huge.
Each new release was a major event and they were Biiiiiig all over the world.
2:08 – The Beatles
Musicians/Performers
Alexander
Genghis Khan
Charles Darwin
The above 2 I’d put in a different categories to what they’ve been drafted under, but that’s another story.
My other choice is still here and I’m going to take it.
Tremendous value at this point and a phenomenon the likes of which we’ll probably never see again.
Their impact is still enormous now and will be in future.
They were the first singer/songwriters to go mega huge.
Each new release was a major event and they were Biiiiiig all over the world.
2:08 – The Beatles
Musicians/Performers
higgins
Footballguy
2.9 -- Mother Teresa, Humanitarian.
By topic definition (Humanitarian/Saint/Martyr), this pick should be tops. Noble Peace Prize for humanitarian work, who was beatified by Pope John Paul II and given the title Blessed Teresa of Calcutta.
link
By the 1970s she was internationally famed as a humanitarian and advocate for the poor and helpless.
She won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979.
Following her death she was beatified by Pope John Paul II and given the title Blessed Teresa of Calcutta.
Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity at the time of her death was operating 610 missions in 123 countries, including hospices and homes for people with HIV/AIDS, leprosy and tuberculosis, soup kitchens, children's and family counseling programs, orphanages, and schools.
Bonus pic
By topic definition (Humanitarian/Saint/Martyr), this pick should be tops. Noble Peace Prize for humanitarian work, who was beatified by Pope John Paul II and given the title Blessed Teresa of Calcutta.
link
By the 1970s she was internationally famed as a humanitarian and advocate for the poor and helpless.
She won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979.
Following her death she was beatified by Pope John Paul II and given the title Blessed Teresa of Calcutta.
Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity at the time of her death was operating 610 missions in 123 countries, including hospices and homes for people with HIV/AIDS, leprosy and tuberculosis, soup kitchens, children's and family counseling programs, orphanages, and schools.
Bonus pic
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Doug B
Footballguy
I wonder if this is the "sure category #1" krista was thinking about?
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
She said earlier it was Guttenberg.Recalling all the catcalls and guffaws when thatguy took Elvis in the 1st round of the G.A.D., all I can say is nice pick.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Couple of solid picks there. I'm curious to see how the judging plays out in the "performers" category, The Beatles were certainly high on my list. Mother Teresa is definitely the most renowned humanitarian of the last century.
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Mixlflick1
Footballguy
Revisiting the inventors debate – what make the best inventor? Everyone jumped on board with Gutenberg as the number 1 inventor. But really? The man invented one thing. Granted, it is likely the most influential invention in history after the wheel and written language, but is Gutenberg a great inventor? Compare him to the man everyone said was a “major reach,” Tesla. Tesla invented (1) a whole lot more things, (2) things that are much more complicated and (3) things that have a huge impact on the world today and have for over 100 years.
My point is that Tesla’s ability to invent useful, groundbreaking things dwarfs Gutenberg’s (at least by our knowledge of what thing Gutenberg invented). It just so happens that Gutenberg’s one invention was huge. If one huge invention makes you #1 in the category, then there’s a clear-cut #2. If you are looking at the inventor’s full body of work, then #1 gets awfully fuzzy and Tesla’s much more in the mix.
Everyone on this message board has used the results of Gutenberg’s printing press our whole lives. Of course, everyone on this message board has used the results of Tesla’s coil our whole lives, and his AC inventions, and his microwave inventions, and his vacuum tubes, and his florescent lights, and his radar, etc.
Just a thought.
My point is that Tesla’s ability to invent useful, groundbreaking things dwarfs Gutenberg’s (at least by our knowledge of what thing Gutenberg invented). It just so happens that Gutenberg’s one invention was huge. If one huge invention makes you #1 in the category, then there’s a clear-cut #2. If you are looking at the inventor’s full body of work, then #1 gets awfully fuzzy and Tesla’s much more in the mix.
Everyone on this message board has used the results of Gutenberg’s printing press our whole lives. Of course, everyone on this message board has used the results of Tesla’s coil our whole lives, and his AC inventions, and his microwave inventions, and his vacuum tubes, and his florescent lights, and his radar, etc.
Just a thought.
Christopher Hitchens might disagree with you.During the deliberations over the Second Vatican Council, MT was to the fore in opposing all suggestions of reform. What was needed, she maintained, was more work and more faith, not doctrinal revision. Her position was ultra-reactionary and fundamentalist even in orthodox Catholic terms. Believers are indeed enjoined to abhor and eschew abortion, but they are not required to affirm that abortion is "the greatest destroyer of peace," as MT fantastically asserted to a dumbfounded audience when receiving the Nobel Peace Prize*. Believers are likewise enjoined to abhor and eschew divorce, but they are not required to insist that a ban on divorce and remarriage be a part of the state constitution, as MT demanded in a referendum in Ireland (which her side narrowly lost) in 1996. Later in that same year, she told Ladies Home Journal that she was pleased by the divorce of her friend XXXX, because the marriage had so obviously been an unhappy one …
This returns us to the medieval corruption of the church, which sold indulgences to the rich while preaching hellfire and continence to the poor. MT was not a friend of the poor. She was a friend of poverty. She said that suffering was a gift from God. She spent her life opposing the only known cure for poverty, which is the empowerment of women and the emancipation of them from a livestock version of compulsory reproduction. And she was a friend to the worst of the rich, taking misappropriated money from the atrocious XXXX family in XXX (whose rule she praised in return). Where did that money, and all the other donations, go? The primitive hospice in Calcutta was as run down when she died as it always had been—she preferred California clinics when she got sick herself—and her order always refused to publish any audit. But we have her own claim that she opened 500 convents in more than a hundred countries, all bearing the name of her own order. Excuse me, but this is modesty and humility?
The rich world has a poor conscience, and many people liked to alleviate their own unease by sending money to a woman who seemed like an activist for "the poorest of the poor." People do not like to admit that they have been gulled or conned, so a vested interest in the myth was permitted to arise, and a lazy media never bothered to ask any follow-up questions. Many volunteers who went to Calcutta came back abruptly disillusioned by the stern ideology and poverty-loving practice of the "Missionaries of Charity," but they had no audience for their story. XXXX admonition in his essay on Gandhi—that saints should always be presumed guilty until proved innocent—was drowned in a Niagara of soft-hearted, soft-headed, and uninquiring propaganda.
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Thorn
Footballguy
ETA: I don't think you have to redact their individual names since they have now been drafted.
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HERBERT THE HIPPO
REAL Ultimate Power
And a VERY good thought at that......
Fennis
Footballguy
I think #1 is the guy who invented beer pong.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
Perhaps not quite. But I don't want to spotlight.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
I said renowned, not necessarily best.
Usual21
Footballguy
Tesla wasn't a bad pick. But if you think that this pick was bad, please let us know why. I know of a few reasons why, but I still think that his positives outweigh his negatives.
Doug B
Footballguy
Although -- one is/was a noted Humanitarian. I assume that any individual Beatle is now off the table?
HERBERT THE HIPPO
REAL Ultimate Power
No, I don't think it's bad, I just want someone else to take some abuse.
HERBERT THE HIPPO
REAL Ultimate Power
Can we still take individual Beatles?
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
I don't think it's a bad pick, but I'm having trouble personally weighing the US Presidents against other historical leaders. Typically they have a much shorter span of influence, and, as I mentioned before, had less direct authority over the events happening during their time. Whoever the judge is for that category is going to have to weigh all that out, which is going to be a tough job.
Fair enough.
Usual21
Footballguy
Good point about being limited to a short span of time in which to lead the country. I just feel that the liberation of slaves was an instrumental part in his success.
I'm as big of a Lincoln fan as anyone, but in the 2nd round of a world draft, you have a LOT of people on the board who were more powerful/important/influential for a lot longer period of time than Lincoln.
Thorn
Footballguy
I would think not, I mean if Larry slots Jesus Christ as his religous, I can't take him later as my leader. Tim?
FUBAR
Footballguy
nice. I don't think they're as important as many people left, but they are certainly among the top in the category.
higgins
Footballguy
Btw: are these eventually going to be voted on by the FFA or merely the selected judges? I know that in the GA draft, the judges' results will dictate seeding, with the FFA finally weighing in to determine winners -- is this also going to be the case with this draft, or are the judges' results final?
krista4
Footballguy
At the time I didn't realize there was a "group" exception for musicians. If I had, might have thought of them as a clear #1, too. Even if not, no way to argue with this great pick.
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