World's Greatest Draft (1 Viewer)

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Interesting fact about Cook I learned as I read more of his Wiki page: The site where he was killed in Hawaii is marked by a white obelisk and about 25 square feet (2.3 m2) of land around it is chained off. This land, though in Hawaii, has been given to the United Kingdom. Therefore, the site is officially a part of the UK.

We were taught in school that he was eaten by Cannibals although it's been more recently suggested that he was baked, but not eaten. Simply a means to remove flesh from the bones.

 

[GTBilly]

So I feel pretty confident in saying that Alexander and Hannibal were not influenced by Sun Tzu and I would bet on Khan not being influenced either but I can't find any way to prove it right now. So definitely 2, possibly 3 of the top 4 military commanders of all time were not influenced by The Art of War. Not a great report card for arguing that he should be #1.

Thought everyone at one point or another was influenced by ST??? I could be wrong but I would be curious to your reasoning. It is his influence that makes him a possible argument of #1 Military Guy.

Tzu and Alexander lived at the same time. Alexander conquered the "known" world. It would be very hard for him to have studied the Art of War a/before it was written b/before he became a general and c/hw could he study something from a part of he world not even known to exist?Hannibal was a Meditearranean figure only a hundred or so years later. Don't think China was known to the "West" by then ro what influence such a different culture would've had on those early Med societies.Ghengis was a 13th century conqueror in the same region of Tzu so he could very well be familiar with it but I haven't found anything about it in his bios.Napoleon was influenced by it just as he was by Hannibal. This is why I contend that those that put theories of several different thorists to practical use should rank higher than theorists, unless some great general is known to ONLY use one theory to achieve some greatness.

Hey 30 seconds on wiki and I look like a moron. BTW for those trying to quantify your villain's to me this simple explanation would make me change my mind. It's that simple folks I will rank Good Guys and Bad Guys the same way and you get a chance to convince me otherwise. This is an example of otherwise and all it took was 5 minutes on wiki. Nice job(I know this is leader's just using it as an example)

 

[mad sweeney]

Neil's obviously a great choice, but wasn't it somewhat luck that he was the first guy to step on the moon? I mean, it could have been any of the three of them, right? I'm not sure how it was decided that it would be Armstrong, but because it was decided somewhat arbitrarily, it's hard to credit him with the voyage, the way we would credit a Columbus or a Magellan...

It wasnt at all arbitrary. He was the mission commander and as such he piloted the Lunar Module. He was chosen to not only lead this particular mission, but also to be the first man on the moon.

I was debating this pick but wasn't sure on how much of the prep and planning Armstrong did. It took incredibly more men and technology worknig in unison to land him there and quite frankly what's the reason/purpose of doing it? Most of the explorers' explorations led to material gains for their homelands. Other than beating the Russkies to it what has landing on the moon done for us? Why hasn't it been done again?

Well, first off, the expeditions of all the other explorers picked so far were also massive undertakings in their day and required relatively vast sums from the treasuries to succeed. None of them were acting alone.As for what we've gotten out of space exploration, well, were still in the infancy of the space age. But even still, global communications, GPS, microwaves, Tang, insights into the beginning of the universe, medicines, etc...The wealth of resources available in just the astroid belt would dwarf the collective wealth of the entire world many times over. Besides, its not like within 40 years of Columbus the Americas were being fully exploited, and space is a tad bit harder to exploit.

As far as the actual exploration goes, sure several people were involved. A King or Queen generally put up the money and the explorer had to hire ship builders, crew, navigators, provisions, soldiers etc. But as for the voyage he had to captain the ship and/or fleet, have the idea of where to go and how to get there etc... I think the amount of work done by the given explorer is much higher for the sea voyager than for the pilot of the moon lander who had support from Houston, a known destination and a way back.I'm not talking about space exploration, I am talking about the moon. Armstrong wasn't the first one in space. Most of these explorers are useful because they discovered some place useful. I am not arguing he doesn't belong but I think his contributions to the explorer category are less than the guy I never heard of theat MK picked. He's iconic of explorers but I don't rank him high on the list.

 

[krista4]

Just getting caught up and might be way behind, but Pele was the only person I could think of as a definite #1 in the sports category.

 

[GTBilly]

Just getting caught up and might be way behind, but Pele was the only person I could think of as a definite #1 in the sports category.

He's definitely going to finish in the top 20.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Hey 30 seconds on wiki and I look like a moron. BTW for those trying to quantify your villain's to me this simple explanation would make me change my mind. It's that simple folks I will rank Good Guys and Bad Guys the same way and you get a chance to convince me otherwise. This is an example of otherwise and all it took was 5 minutes on wiki. Nice job(I know this is leader's just using it as an example)

Some food for thought for the other judges here.In the G.A.D., we saw some judges had a preset list that never varied once the draft started, and others who did not make their final decisions until after the draft, and after they read the writeups or did additional research.I think that draft and this one are tremendous learning opportunities - for the drafters, judges, and anyone following along. That is why both have enormously popular in the FFA.Judges may utilize whatever methodology they deem best, but IMO I don't think you should have rigid rankings. There is much for all of us to learn here, and keeping an open mind will only help you do a better job.

 

[thatguy]

Hey 30 seconds on wiki and I look like a moron. BTW for those trying to quantify your villain's to me this simple explanation would make me change my mind. It's that simple folks I will rank Good Guys and Bad Guys the same way and you get a chance to convince me otherwise. This is an example of otherwise and all it took was 5 minutes on wiki. Nice job(I know this is leader's just using it as an example)

Some food for thought for the other judges here.In the G.A.D., we saw some judges had a preset list that never varied once the draft started, and others who did not make their final decisions until after the draft, and after they read the writeups or did additional research.I think that draft and this one are tremendous learning opportunities - for the drafters, judges, and anyone following along. That is why both have enormously popular in the FFA.Judges may utilize whatever methodology they deem best, but IMO I don't think you should have rigid rankings. There is much for all of us to learn here, and keeping an open mind will only help you do a better job.

 

[shining path]

I suspect this pick may not be incredibly popular, as this guy is not as well known or notorious as others in the category, but I can't find a good reason not to take him here. I think a strong case could be made that he belongs in the discussion for top leader. At the very worst, I think he belongs in the top 5. Whether or not the judge's rankings bear this out, I don't know, but I can't say I care either, as I've already said I'm picking guys in this draft who I like regardless of how I think they'll be perceived. Not only was this man thousands of years ahead of his time as leader, advocating non-violence, love, truth, and tolerance, but is largely responsible for spreading Buddhism throughout much of Asia, and is considered second among Buddhists only to Buddha

My pick for leader is:



Asoka, AKA Ashoka the Great



Ashoka (Devanāgarī: अशोकः, IAST: Aśokaḥ, IPA: [aɕoːkə(hə)], 304 BCE – 232 BCE) was an Indian emperor, of the Maurya Dynasty who ruled almost all of the Indian subcontinent from 273 BCE to 232 BCE. Often cited as one of India's as well as world's greatest emperors. Ashoka reigned over most of present-day India after a number of military conquests. His empire stretched from present-day Pakistan, Afghanistan in the west, to the present-day Bangladesh and the Indian state of Assam in the east, and as far south as the brahmagiri in Karnataka. He could conquer the kingdom named Kalinga,which no one in his dynasty could conquer starting from Chandragupt Maurya. His reign was headquartered in Magadha (present-day Bihar, India). [1] He embraced Buddhism from the prevalent Vedic tradition after witnessing the mass deaths of the war of Kalinga, which he himself had waged out of a desire for conquest. He was later dedicated in the propagation of Buddhism across Asia and established monuments marking several significant sites in the life of Gautama Buddha. Ashoka in human history is often referred as the emperor of all ages. Ashoka was a devotee of ahimsa (nonviolence), love, truth, tolerance and Vegetarianism. Ashoka is remembered in history as a philanthropic administrator.In the history of India Ashoka is referred to as Samrath Chakravartin Ashoka- the Emperor of Emperors Ashoka.

His name "aśoka" means "without sorrow" in Sanskrit (a= no/without, soka= sorrow or worry). In his edicts, he is referred to as Devānāmpriya (Devanāgarī: देवानांप्रिय)/Devānaṃpiya or "The Beloved Of The Gods", and Priyadarśin (Devanāgarī: प्रियदर्शी)/Piyadassī or "He who regards everyone amiably". Another title of his is Dhamma (prakrit: धम्मः), "Lawful, Religious, Righteous".

Renowned British author and social critic H. G. Wells in his bestselling two-volume work, The Outline of History (1920), wrote of emperor Ashoka:

"In the history of the world there have been thousands of kings and emperors who called themselves 'their highnesses,' 'their majesties,' and 'their exalted majesties' and so on. They shone for a brief moment, and as quickly disappeared. But Ashoka shines and shines brightly like a bright star, even unto this day."

Along with the Edicts of Ashoka, his legend is related in the later 2nd century Aśokāvadāna ("Narrative of Asoka") and Divyāvadāna ("Divine narrative"), and in the Sinhalese text Mahavamsa ("Great Chronicle"). Although there are many inscriptions of Ashoka, no coins which can be confidently linked to him have been found. This may be linked to the fact that his contemporary and neighbor Diodotus I has numerous coins but no inscriptions. Moreover, the Kandahar bilingual inscription clearly indicates that Ashoka was the ruler of this area but the coins point to Diodotus-I as the ruler. Ranajit Pal attempts to resolve the problem by suggesting that Ashoka was the same as Diodotus I.[2] He maintains that Patali (28°19'58" La., 57°52'16" Lo.)[3] near Kohnouj and Konarak in the Gulf Area was Patliputra.[4]



After two thousand years, the influence of Ashoka is seen in south asia and especially the Indian subcontinent. An emblem excavated from his empire is today the national Emblem of India. In the history of Buddhism Ashoka is marked just next to Gautam Buddha.



Contributions



Global Spread of Buddhism

Ashoka, now a Buddhist emperor, believed that Buddhism is beneficial for all human beings as well as animals and plants, so he built 84,000 stupas, Sangharama, viharas, Chaitya, and residences for Buddhist monks all over South Asia and Central Asia. He gave donations to viharas and mathas. He sent his only daughter Sanghamitta and son Mahindra to spread Buddhism in Sri Lanka (ancient name Tamraparni). Ashoka also invited Buddhists and non-Buddhists for religious conferences. Ashoka inspired the Buddhist monks to compose the sacred religious texts, and also gave all types of help to that end. Ashoka also helped to develop viharas (intellectual hubs) such as Nalanda and Taxila. Ashoka helped to construct Sanchi and Mahabodhi Temple. Ashoka never tried to harm or to destroy non-Buddhist religions, and indeed gave donations to non-Buddhists. Ashoka helped and respected both Sramans (Buddhists monks) and Brahmins (Vedic monks). Ashoka also helped to organize the Third Buddhist council (c. 250 BCE) at Pataliputra (today's Patna).



As an Administrator



Ashoka's military power was so strong that he was able to crush the neighbors like Cholas, Pandya, Keralputra, the post Alexandrian empire, Tamraparni, and Suvarnabhumi but he never harmed them. Rather, according to his edicts we know that he provided humanitarian help including doctors, hospitals, inns, wells, medical herbs and engineers to his neighboring countries. In his neighboring countries Ashoka helped humans as well as animals. Ashoka also planted trees in his empire and his neighboring countries. Ashoka was perhaps the first emperor in human history to ban slavery, hunting, fishing and deforestation. Ashoka also banned the death sentence and asked the same for the neighboring countries. Ashoka commanded his people to serve the orders of their elders (parents) and religious monks. Ashoka also recommended his people study all religions and respect all religions. According to Ashoka, to harm another's religion is a harm to someone's owns religion. Ashoka asserted his people to live with Dharmmacharana. Ashoka asked people to live with harmony, peace, love and tolerance. Ashoka called his people as his children, and they could call him when they need him. He also asked people to save money and not to spend for immoral causes. Ashoka also believed in dharmacharana(dhammacharana) and dharmavijaya(dhammavijaya). According to many European and Asian historians the age of Ashoka was the age of light and delightment. He was the first emperor in human history who has taught the lesson of unity, peace, equality and love. Ashoka's aim was not to expand the territories but the welfare of all of his subjects (sarvajansukhay). In his vast empire there was no evidence of recognizable mutiny or civil war. Ashoka was the true devotee of nonviolence, peace and love. This made him different from other emperors. Ashoka also helped Buddhism as well as religions like Jainism, Hinduism, Hellenic polytheism and Ajivikas. Ashoka was against any discrimination among humans. He helped students, the poor, orphans and the elderly with social, political and economic help. According to Ashoka, hatred gives birth to hatred and a feeling of love gives birth to love and mercy. According to him the happiness of people is the happiness of the ruler. His opinion was that the sword is not as powerful as love. Ashoka was also Kind to prisoners, and respected animal life and tree life. Ashoka allowed females to be educated. He also permitted females to enter religious institutions. He allowed female Buddhist monastic such as Bhikkhuni. He combined in himself the complexity a king and a simplicity of a buddhist monk. Because of these reasons he is known as the emperor of all ages and thus became a milestone in the History of the world.



Ashoka Chakra

The Ashoka Chakra (the wheel of Ashok the Great) is a depiction of the Dharmachakra or Dhammachakka in Pali, the Wheel of Dharma (Sanskrit: Chakra means wheel). The wheel has 24 spokes. The Ashoka Chakra has been widely inscribed on many relics of the Mauryan Emperor, most prominent among which is the Lion Capital of Sarnath and The Ashoka Pillar. The most visible use of the Ashoka Chakra today is at the centre of the National flag of the Republic of India (adopted on 22 July 1947), where it is rendered in a Navy-blue color on a White background, by replacing the symbol of Charkha (Spinning wheel) of the pre-independence versions of the flag. Ashoka Chakra can also been seen on the base of Lion Capital of Ashoka which has been adopted as the National Emblem of India.

The Ashoka chakra was built by Ashoka during his reign. Chakra is a Sanskrit word which also means cycle or self repeating process. The process it signifies is the cycle of time as how the world changes with time. The horse means accuracy and speed while the bull means hardwork.

A few days before India became independent on August 1947, the specially constituted Constituent Assembly decided that the flag of India must be acceptable to all parties and communities.[9] A flag with three colours, Saffron, White and Green with the Ashoka Chakra was selected. Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan, who later became India's first Vice President, clarified the adopted flag and described its significance as follows:

"Bhagwa or the saffron color denotes renunciation or disinterestedness. Our leaders must be indifferent to material gains and dedicate themselves to their work. The white in the center is light, the path of truth to guide our conduct. The green shows our relation to (the) soil, our relation to the plant life here, on which all other life depends. The "Ashoka Chakra" in the center of the white is the wheel of the law of dharma. Truth or satya, dharma or virtue ought to be the controlling principle of those who work under this flag. Again, the wheel denotes motion. There is death in stagnation. There is life in movement. India should no more resist change, it must move and go forward. The wheel represents the dynamism of a peaceful change. It also represents 24 hours in a day."

A widely held unofficial interpretation is that the saffron stands for purity and spirituality, white for peace and truth, green for fertility and prosperity and the wheel for justice/righteousness.

The twenty four spokes in this chakra wheel represent twenty four virtues:

1. Love

2. Courage

3. Patience

4. Peacefulness

5. Kindness

6. Goodness

7. Faithfulness

8. Gentleness

9. Self-control

10. Selflessness

11. Self sacrifice

12. Truthfulness

13. Righteousness

14. Justice

15. Mercy

16. Graciousness

17. Humility

18. Empathy

19. Sympathy

20. Supreme knowledge

21. Supreme wisdom

22. Supreme moral

23. Love for all beings

24. Hope, trust, or faith in the goodness of God or nature.

Asoka kicks ### in Civ IV.

 

[GTBilly]

Hey 30 seconds on wiki and I look like a moron. BTW for those trying to quantify your villain's to me this simple explanation would make me change my mind. It's that simple folks I will rank Good Guys and Bad Guys the same way and you get a chance to convince me otherwise. This is an example of otherwise and all it took was 5 minutes on wiki. Nice job(I know this is leader's just using it as an example)

Some food for thought for the other judges here.In the G.A.D., we saw some judges had a preset list that never varied once the draft started, and others who did not make their final decisions until after the draft, and after they read the writeups or did additional research.I think that draft and this one are tremendous learning opportunities - for the drafters, judges, and anyone following along. That is why both have enormously popular in the FFA.Judges may utilize whatever methodology they deem best, but IMO I don't think you should have rigid rankings. There is much for all of us to learn here, and keeping an open mind will only help you do a better job.

For sure it is your job to convince me I am wrong or that your pick is more deserving. I will say this I am judging 2 categories and one of the picks that has been selected will not be #1 and you are unable to convince me otherwise.(I will delete this post if the second part is in violation of the rules or spirit of the draft)

 

[mad sweeney]

Hey 30 seconds on wiki and I look like a moron. BTW for those trying to quantify your villain's to me this simple explanation would make me change my mind. It's that simple folks I will rank Good Guys and Bad Guys the same way and you get a chance to convince me otherwise. This is an example of otherwise and all it took was 5 minutes on wiki. Nice job(I know this is leader's just using it as an example)

Some food for thought for the other judges here.

In the G.A.D., we saw some judges had a preset list that never varied once the draft started, and others who did not make their final decisions until after the draft, and after they read the writeups or did additional research.

I think that draft and this one are tremendous learning opportunities - for the drafters, judges, and anyone following along. That is why both have enormously popular in the FFA.

Judges may utilize whatever methodology they deem best, but IMO I don't think you should have rigid rankings. There is much for all of us to learn here, and keeping an open mind will only help you do a better job.

Yeah, but this also resulted in Hulk Hogan getting a FIVE for wildcard.

 

[Mister CIA]

Just getting caught up and might be way behind, but Pele was the only person I could think of as a definite #1 in the sports category.

I think Pele and one other person represent 1A and 1B in the athlete category.

 

[DCThunder]

I will be at a workshop all day tomorrow and Wednesday, so put me on autoskip. I will check back late afternoon both days so I won't get too far behind. If it gets to me tonight, I will pick, however.

 

[mad sweeney]

So I feel pretty confident in saying that Alexander and Hannibal were not influenced by Sun Tzu and I would bet on Khan not being influenced either but I can't find any way to prove it right now. So definitely 2, possibly 3 of the top 4 military commanders of all time were not influenced by The Art of War. Not a great report card for arguing that he should be #1.

Thought everyone at one point or another was influenced by ST??? I could be wrong but I would be curious to your reasoning. It is his influence that makes him a possible argument of #1 Military Guy.

Tzu and Alexander lived at the same time. Alexander conquered the "known" world. It would be very hard for him to have studied the Art of War a/before it was written b/before he became a general and c/hw could he study something from a part of he world not even known to exist?Hannibal was a Meditearranean figure only a hundred or so years later. Don't think China was known to the "West" by then ro what influence such a different culture would've had on those early Med societies.Ghengis was a 13th century conqueror in the same region of Tzu so he could very well be familiar with it but I haven't found anything about it in his bios.Napoleon was influenced by it just as he was by Hannibal. This is why I contend that those that put theories of several different thorists to practical use should rank higher than theorists, unless some great general is known to ONLY use one theory to achieve some greatness.

Which is why maybe Tzu should be an intellectual.

I'm not so sure about that either. I think military theory definiteley fits better here than intellectual, I just don't think he's any better than 5. Post Marco Polo and printing press and such his works have certainly been a mainstay for a large number of great military minds and should get him a good spot on this list but most definitely not as a first overall pick. Maybe he will slide to w/c.

 

[Ozymandias]

I think it is fair to say that as we get further down any category, the differences become closer and closer. I don't have any doubt who my top nine picks are in the military category, because I know them very well and have researched them. Beyond that it is a little more difficult. The differences are not as great, and I don't claim to be an expert on every part of them. But it is a judgment call, in any case. Some other military expert is almost certain to differ with me, even on the top one or two or three.

 

[FUBAR]

Just getting caught up and might be way behind, but Pele was the only person I could think of as a definite #1 in the sports category.

Really? I can think of a few #1s. I may have to take a #2.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

When can I pick?

 

[mad sweeney]

Gotta take the puppers in for a check up. Doubt it gets back to me but Drs offices of any kind can throw a wrench in your day with long waiting room waits so...

If I get my PM I'll name my pick (provided he hasn't been chosen) and do a writeup when I get home.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

When can I pick?

The next pick will time out at 5:03

 

[FUBAR]

4.03 (63rd pick) - Hannibal - Military

Should be solidly in the second tier of Military commanders, was in my top 5 (only 1, #3 on my list is still left).

Certainly on my "A Team"

 

[GTBilly]

When can I pick?

I'm new to this draft thing but thinking logically my answer would be:When it is your turn.

 

[krista4]

Just getting caught up and might be way behind, but Pele was the only person I could think of as a definite #1 in the sports category.

I think Pele and one other person represent 1A and 1B in the athlete category.

 

[Ozymandias]

When can I pick?

I'm new to this draft thing but thinking logically my answer would be:When it is your turn.

Please don't spotlight.

 

[GTBilly]

When can I pick?

I'm new to this draft thing but thinking logically my answer would be:When it is your turn.

Please don't spotlight.

Explain please

 

[krista4]

I think it is fair to say that as we get further down any category, the differences become closer and closer. I don't have any doubt who my top nine picks are in the military category, because I know them very well and have researched them. Beyond that it is a little more difficult. The differences are not as great, and I don't claim to be an expert on every part of them. But it is a judgment call, in any case. Some other military expert is almost certain to differ with me, even on the top one or two or three.

I have a definite 1a and 1b in poetry/playwright, then it gets fuzzy. Novelist/short story is a bit fuzzy all along, though.

 

[HERBERT THE HIPPO]

4.4 Archimedes - Intellectual

Archimedes was the greatest mathematician of his age. His contributions in geometry revolutionised the subject and his methods anticipated the integral calculus 2,000 years before Newton and Leibniz. He was also a thoroughly practical man who invented a wide variety of machines including pulleys and the Archimidean screw pumping device.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

When can I pick?

I'm new to this draft thing but thinking logically my answer would be:When it is your turn.

Herbert is thinkingand Usual21 times out as per Arsenal in 15 minutes

 

[higgins]

4.4 Archimedes - ScientistWill post write up later.

 

[GTBilly]

When can I pick?

I'm new to this draft thing but thinking logically my answer would be:When it is your turn.

Herbert is thinkingand Usual21 times out as per Arsenal in 15 minutes

Are you saying it will be your turn in 15 minutes?

 

[Ozymandias]

When can I pick?

I'm new to this draft thing but thinking logically my answer would be:When it is your turn.

Please don't spotlight.

Explain please

You're turning the spotlight on him.

 

[BobbyLayne]

So who wins the one on one fight to the death between Ghenghis Khan and Hannibal? Say both are allowed to bring their weapons along...

Genghis wins. The Mongols were the greatest horsemen in the world. At a full racing gallop, they could shoot a third arrow before the first had landed. Mongols trained their children from boyhood to be mounted archers. That is what made them the devastating force they were. Hannibal would have never got a chance to use his weapons.

"We will either find a way, or make one."

But Alex beats them both, he's Marciano; he never lost.

Neither did Genghis, to my knowledge. In fact, if Hannibal had not lost at Zama, he might well have climbed to #1 in the rankings. There is something to be said, not only for an undefeated season, but for an undefeated career.

"There's a chicken in Chinatown, he's famous, he plays tic-tac-toe. He never loses. Just like you."Just like Alexander and Hannibal.

 

[larry_boy_44]

3.18 (58th pick) - John Locke - Intellectual

Jack is more important...

Sawyer would be a good rebel.

and Ben is a solid choice for villain (although it is possible we may find out he's actually a hero, in which case he'd have to be moved to wildcard)

 

[dparker713]

Neil's obviously a great choice, but wasn't it somewhat luck that he was the first guy to step on the moon? I mean, it could have been any of the three of them, right? I'm not sure how it was decided that it would be Armstrong, but because it was decided somewhat arbitrarily, it's hard to credit him with the voyage, the way we would credit a Columbus or a Magellan...

It wasnt at all arbitrary. He was the mission commander and as such he piloted the Lunar Module. He was chosen to not only lead this particular mission, but also to be the first man on the moon.

I was debating this pick but wasn't sure on how much of the prep and planning Armstrong did. It took incredibly more men and technology worknig in unison to land him there and quite frankly what's the reason/purpose of doing it? Most of the explorers' explorations led to material gains for their homelands. Other than beating the Russkies to it what has landing on the moon done for us? Why hasn't it been done again?

Well, first off, the expeditions of all the other explorers picked so far were also massive undertakings in their day and required relatively vast sums from the treasuries to succeed. None of them were acting alone.As for what we've gotten out of space exploration, well, were still in the infancy of the space age. But even still, global communications, GPS, microwaves, Tang, insights into the beginning of the universe, medicines, etc...The wealth of resources available in just the astroid belt would dwarf the collective wealth of the entire world many times over. Besides, its not like within 40 years of Columbus the Americas were being fully exploited, and space is a tad bit harder to exploit.

As far as the actual exploration goes, sure several people were involved. A King or Queen generally put up the money and the explorer had to hire ship builders, crew, navigators, provisions, soldiers etc. But as for the voyage he had to captain the ship and/or fleet, have the idea of where to go and how to get there etc... I think the amount of work done by the given explorer is much higher for the sea voyager than for the pilot of the moon lander who had support from Houston, a known destination and a way back.I'm not talking about space exploration, I am talking about the moon. Armstrong wasn't the first one in space. Most of these explorers are useful because they discovered some place useful. I am not arguing he doesn't belong but I think his contributions to the explorer category are less than the guy I never heard of theat MK picked. He's iconic of explorers but I don't rank him high on the list.

Armstrong only took 3 of his entourage with him, and used radio to communicate the rest. Columbus took 3 full ships. Considering the complexity, I dont find this all that different. And the guys in the capsule do a whole lot. And even though there are plenty of people helping them, ultimately they need to execute in extremely high pressure situations. I mean, their trips are alot shorter as compared to some other explorers, but they're nearly constantly doing something. Over 2 weeks or so, they barely get any sleep, and early astronauts also lost a fair amount of weight, muscle mass and bone density. Its physically and mentally grueling. And there are plenty of valuable resources on the moon, we just dont yet have technologies or the demand to make harvesting economically viable. And many of the technology developed to go to the moon has been commercially exploited for decades. Its extremely short sighted to think that celestial bodies and the moon in particular will not be useful places.

 

[the moops]

4.4 Archimedes - ScientistWill post write up later.

Love this guy.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

4.4 Archimedes - ScientistWill post write up later.

I really getting sick and tired of this. Truly. I have to come up with a 25 person bucket at every single pick just to have a shot at getting someone. I'm annoyed.Good pick. Spin!

 

[timschochet]

Archimedes is certainly one of the greatest mathematicians who ever lived.

 

[GregR_2]

As someone who has accepted he will never be able to keep up with the scroll rate in this thread... it would be great if the first post that shows the picks would contain a hot link to the drafter's write up on him.

So instead of just:

1. Mario Kart- Sun Tzu

It would be:

1. Mario Kart- Sun Tzu

(Each post has a number top right on it that you can use to get the URL straight to that post)

I can understand not wanting to go back and redo them all, but maybe going forward as new ones are added?

 

[BobbyLayne]

I suspect this pick may not be incredibly popular, as this guy is not as well known or notorious as others in the category, but I can't find a good reason not to take him here. I think a strong case could be made that he belongs in the discussion for top leader. At the very worst, I think he belongs in the top 5. Whether or not the judge's rankings bear this out, I don't know, but I can't say I care either, as I've already said I'm picking guys in this draft who I like regardless of how I think they'll be perceived. Not only was this man thousands of years ahead of his time as leader, advocating non-violence, love, truth, and tolerance, but is largely responsible for spreading Buddhism throughout much of Asia, and is considered second among Buddhists only to BuddhaMy pick for leader is:Asoka, AKA Ashoka the Great

So you mean to tell me you actually meant what you said the other night?

I think rather than strictly try to win this thing, I'm going to try to pick a cohesive team of figures whose works or achievements I admire and respect.In the American draft I let my competitive spirit get the best of me, and while I do like my team, some of my picks were based more on pleasing the judges than anything else (well, really the only such pick was Duchamp, but it was a controversial one).

Great pick. You may or may not get a top score from the judge (we'll see - that Leader category could see a lot of movement in and out).For sure you'll get killed in HTH matchups.Still an awesome pick. Definitely one that increase a lot of knowledge. Would much rather see that than "Oh, yup, sure, big icon, lot of myth, but great name recognition with so-and-so, good pick".

 

[thatguy]

As someone who has accepted he will never be able to keep up with the scroll rate in this thread... it would be great if the first post that shows the picks would contain a hot link to the drafter's write up on him.

So instead of just:

1. Mario Kart- Sun Tzu

It would be:

1. Mario Kart- Sun Tzu

(Each post has a number top right on it that you can use to get the URL straight to that post)

I can understand not wanting to go back and redo them all, but maybe going forward as new ones are added?

This is a great idea, and as someone who judged the artists in the GAD draft, I cay say it would be of tremendous help to the judges when doing their final evaluations.

 

[thatguy]

So you mean to tell me you actually meant what you said the other night?

I think rather than strictly try to win this thing, I'm going to try to pick a cohesive team of figures whose works or achievements I admire and respect.

In the American draft I let my competitive spirit get the best of me, and while I do like my team, some of my picks were based more on pleasing the judges than anything else (well, really the only such pick was Duchamp, but it was a controversial one).

Great pick.

You may or may not get a top score from the judge (we'll see - that Leader category could see a lot of movement in and out).

For sure you'll get killed in HTH matchups.

Still an awesome pick.



Definitely one that increase a lot of knowledge.

Would much rather see that than "Oh, yup, sure, big icon, lot of myth, but great name recognition with so-and-so, good pick".

Yup. I was dead serious. And so far I'm loving my team.And yeah I pretty much figured he would hurt me in head to head matchups, but now it's looking like if a lot of people play this Civilizations game, he may actually help me. So far two guys who play it think he kicks ###.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Can I pick?

Did someone PM Usual21?

 

[FUBAR]

4.4 Archimedes - ScientistWill post write up later.

I really getting sick and tired of this. Truly. I have to come up with a 25 person bucket at every single pick just to have a shot at getting someone. I'm annoyed.Good pick. Spin!

well, great. out of the 4 I had on my short list, 3 are gone. The 4th probably won't be, mostly because this is way too early for the selection. I do have another one in mind, but it's doubtful to be rated high.

 

[timschochet]

As someone who has accepted he will never be able to keep up with the scroll rate in this thread... it would be great if the first post that shows the picks would contain a hot link to the drafter's write up on him.

So instead of just:

1. Mario Kart- Sun Tzu

It would be:

1. Mario Kart- Sun Tzu

(Each post has a number top right on it that you can use to get the URL straight to that post)

I can understand not wanting to go back and redo them all, but maybe going forward as new ones are added?

This is a great idea, and as someone who judged the artists in the GAD draft, I cay say it would be of tremendous help to the judges when doing their final evaluations.

Yeah, it's a fine idea, but it ain't gonna happen. Sorry.It's already a lot of work just to keep the darn thing updated, and there are days upcoming where I won't be able to do even that until the evening time.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Can I pick?Did someone PM Usual21?

Regardless he timed out at 5:03 p.m. EST.The PM is a courtesy, but the onus is still on the drafter.You may fire when ready, [must not spotlight] JML.

 

[HERBERT THE HIPPO]

4.4 Archimedes - ScientistWill post write up later.

Sorry, but I actually enjoyed actually sniping someone.........

 

[Mario Kart]

So I feel pretty confident in saying that Alexander and Hannibal were not influenced by Sun Tzu and I would bet on Khan not being influenced either but I can't find any way to prove it right now. So definitely 2, possibly 3 of the top 4 military commanders of all time were not influenced by The Art of War. Not a great report card for arguing that he should be #1.

Greatest military commanders that you have stated had their time and place and effected X number of people at that time. Those commanders have "lost" their effectiveness long ago and one could argue that it was at the time of their death. On the other hand, Sun Tzu, had an effect on some when he was alive but has had an effect on people throughout the history we have been talking about. Even to this day in other worldly applications, Sun Tzu and The Art of War are at the forefront of discussion at times. To this day Sun Tzu is here to stay as he affects peoples lives today. Can that be said about Hannibal, Alexander, and others from the Ancients? I think not.

 

[Shirtless]

To add extra geekdorkdom, the next time one of these drafts rolls around it should be rotisserie scoring. In addition to the categories (positions), each category (position) could be made into a noun (stat categories) and each pick (person) would count towards all stat categories. So you could line up Leonardo da Vinci at artist but he would give you points at science, inventiveness, intellect, and artistry. Same with someone like Ben Franklin. This would add extra value to the 5-tool players and detract value from someone who dominates one category, like a Shakespeare or Einstein.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Remember, the clock goes off at 7 p.m. Continue picking if you are ready, but there no time outs or autoskips.

(exception to the rule - it rolls around to someone who was skipped in their previous turn and they have not selected the makeup yet)

4.07 Usual21 - timed out, skipped

4.08 John Madden's Lunchbox - On The Clock Until 6:03 p.m. EST

4.09 higgins - On Deck

4.10 Big Rocks - In the Hole

4.11 Mad Sweeney

4.12 Doug B

4.13 DC Thunder



4.14 Thorn

4.15 Yankee23fan

4.16 Acer FC

4.17 FUBAR

4.18 Arsenal of Doom

4.19 Larry Boy 44

4.20 Mario Kart

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Now we're getting down to business.

I could go in a million different directions here, but since I named 1 of my sons after him (and the Simpson version), Probably a reach, but I'd better go with my religious pick

4:08 - Abraham

Religious

How many figures can say that more than half the worlds population follow his offshoots?

Christianity = The Roman Catholic Church calls Abraham "our father in Faith,"

Islam - Abraham is revered by Muslims as one of the Prophets in Islam, and is commonly termed Khalil Ullah, "Friend of God". Abraham is considered a Hanif, that is, a discoverer of monotheism.

Judaism - Abraham not only symbolically appears as a fundamental figure for Judaism, but is recognised to have observed the tenets of the Torah before it was given to Moses.

Now if only he could get his 3 children to stop fighting!!!

Abraham (Hebrew: אַבְרָהָם, Standard Avraham Tiberian ʾAḇrāhām Ashkenazi Avrohom or Avruhom ; Arabic: ابراهيم‎, Ibrāhīm ; Ge'ez: አብርሃም, ʾAbrəham) features in the Book of Genesis as the founding patriarch of the Israelites, Ishmaelites and Edomite peoples. He is widely regarded as the patriarch of Jews and Arabs and the founder of monotheism. According to Genesis 17:5, his name was changed by God from Abram (probably meaning "the father is exalted) to Abraham, a name which Genesis explains as meaning "father of many".

According to Genesis, Abraham was sent by God from his home in Ur of the Chaldees to Canaan, the land promised to his descendants by Yahweh. There Abraham entered into a covenant: in exchange for recognition of YHWH as his God, Abraham will be blessed with innumerable progeny and the land would belong to his descendants. [2]

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are sometimes referred to as the "Abrahamic religions" because of the progenitor role Abraham plays in their holy books. In the Jewish tradition, he is called Avraham Avinu or "Abraham, our Father". God promised Abraham that through his offspring, all the nations of the world will come to be blessed (Genesis 12:3), interpreted in Christian tradition as a reference particularly to Christ. Jews, Christians, and Muslims consider him father of the people of Israel through his son XXXXX (cf. Exodus 6:3, Exodus 32:13) by his wife XXXXX. For Muslims, he is a prophet of Islam and the ancestor of Muhammad through his other son XXXXXXX - born to him by his second wife, XXXXX. (Jews and Christians refer to XXXXX as XXXXXX servant). Abraham is also a progenitor of the Semitic tribes of the XXXXX who trace their descent from their common ancestor XXXXX (Genesis 10:28).

 

[timschochet]

I'm cracking up at all the whining and complaining going on here- Oh, you stole my pick, what will I do now?

The way I see it, there's like 50 people that would be good picks for every frigging category.

 

[timschochet]

Is there any evidence outside of the Bible that either Abraham or Moses ever existed?