larry_boy_44
Footballguy
not only is she not the hottest actress ever... She wasn't that great of an actress and her most memorable act is the list of men she slept with...
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World's Greatest Draft (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
John Maddens Lunchbox
Footballguy
The Movies are average.The musical is super mega upper tier elite.The 10th anniversary is basically a musical performance rather than the show itself.that's how I was leaning since I figured the musical would have, well, awesome musical stuff...whereas the movie wouldn't...Movie first. That way you know the story.so..I have downloaded both the "10th anniversary" play Les Miserables and the movie (the one with Claire Danes)...which should I watch first?
Abrantes
Footballguy
Good thing the category isn't about acting talent or even subjective hotness.
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
that sucks...i guess I'll watch the movie...and try and find a new torrent tonight that is the actual show...:hopeful:The Movies are average.The musical is super mega upper tier elite.The 10th anniversary is basically a musical performance rather than the show itself.that's how I was leaning since I figured the musical would have, well, awesome musical stuff...whereas the movie wouldn't...Movie first. That way you know the story.so..I have downloaded both the "10th anniversary" play Les Miserables and the movie (the one with Claire Danes)...which should I watch first?
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Like all of these picks, there's nothing I can write that will shed light on any of them or that will change their legacy one iota, and as a layperson who does not dive into the deep end of the pool when it comes to things like art, philosophy and even science, I'm not about to try; I'm just a wayward FF shark (I crack myself up). Still, I'm pretty sure this guy is a heavyweight for the category.
6.02 - Immanuel Kant, Intellectual ... Kind of strikes me as a philosopher's philosopher.
From the Wiki ...
6.02 - Immanuel Kant, Intellectual ... Kind of strikes me as a philosopher's philosopher.
From the Wiki ...
Immanuel Kant (IPA: [ɪmanuəl kant]; 22 April 1724 – 12 February 1804) was an 18th-century German philosopher from the Prussian city of Königsberg (now Kaliningrad, Russia). He is regarded as one of the most influential thinkers of modern Europe and of the late Enlightenment.
Kant created a new widespread perspective in philosophy which influenced philosophy through the 21st Century. He also published important works of epistemology, as well as works relevant to religion, law, and history. His most important work is the Critique of Pure Reason, an investigation into the limitations and structure of reason itself. It encompasses an attack on traditional metaphysics and epistemology, and highlights Kant's own contribution to these areas. The other main works of his maturity are the Critique of Practical Reason, which concentrates on ethics, and the Critique of Judgment, which investigates aesthetics and teleology.
Pursuing metaphysics involves asking questions about the ultimate nature of reality. Kant suggested that metaphysics can be reformed through epistemology.[1] He suggested that by understanding the sources and limits of human knowledge we can ask fruitful metaphysical questions. He asked if an object can be known to have certain properties prior to the experience of that object. He concluded that all objects about which the mind can think must conform to its manner of thought. Therefore if the mind can think only in terms of causality – which he concluded that it does – then we can know prior to experiencing them that all objects we experience must either be a cause or an effect. However, it follows from this that it is possible that there are objects of such nature which the mind cannot think, and so the principle of causality, for instance, cannot be applied outside of experience: hence we cannot know, for example, whether the world always existed or if it had a cause. And so the grand questions of speculative metaphysics cannot be answered by the human mind, but the sciences are firmly grounded in laws of the mind.
Kant believed himself to be creating a compromise between the empiricists and the rationalists. The empiricists believed that knowledge is acquired through experience alone, but the rationalists maintained that such knowledge is open to Cartesian doubt and that reason alone provides us with knowledge. Kant argues, however, that using reason without applying it to experience will only lead to illusions, while experience will be purely subjective without first being subsumed under pure reason.
Kant’s thought was very influential in Germany during his lifetime, moving philosophy beyond the debate between the rationalists and empiricists. The philosophers Fichte, Schelling, Hegel and Schopenhauer each saw themselves as correcting and expanding the Kantian system, thus bringing about various forms of German idealism. Kant continues to be a major influence on philosophy to this day, influencing both analytic and continental philosophy.
....MUCH MATERIAL SNIPPED
Influence
The vastness of Kant's influence on Western thought is immeasurable.[64] Over and above his specific influence on specific thinkers, Kant changed the framework within which philosophical inquiry has been carried out from his day through the present in ways that have been irreversible. In other words, he accomplished a paradigm shift: very little philosophy since Kant has been carried out as an extension of pre-Kantian philosophy or in the mode of thought and discourse of pre-Kantian philosophy. This shift consists in several closely related innovations that have become axiomatic to post-Kantian thought, both in philosophy itself and in the social sciences and humanities generally:
* Kant's "Copernican revolution", that placed the role of the human subject or knower at the center of inquiry into our knowledge, such that it is impossible to philosophize about things as they are independently of us or of how they are for us;[65]
* his invention of critical philosophy, that is of the notion of being able to discover and systematically explore possible inherent limits to our ability to know through philosophical reasoning;
* his creation of the concept of "conditions of possibility", as in his notion of "the conditions of possible experience" – that is that things, knowledge, and forms of consciousness rest on prior conditions that make them possible, so that to understand or know them we have to first understand these conditions;
* his theory that objective experience is actively constituted or constructed by the functioning of the human mind;
* his notion of moral autonomy as central to humanity;
* his assertion of the principle that human beings should be treated as ends rather than as means.
Some or all of these Kantian ideas can be seen in schools of thought as different from one another as German Idealism, Marxism, positivism, phenomenology, existentialism, critical theory, linguistic philosophy, structuralism, post-structuralism, and deconstructionism. Kant's influence also has extended to the social and behavioral sciences, as in the sociology of Max Weber, the psychology of Jean Piaget, and the linguistics of Noam Chomsky. Because of the thoroughness of the Kantian paradigm shift, his influence extends even to thinkers who do not specifically refer to his work or use his terminology.
During his own life, there was a considerable amount of attention paid to his thought, much of it critical, though he did have a positive influence on Reinhold, Fichte, Schelling, Hegel, and Novalis during the 1780s and 1790s. The philosophical movement known as German Idealism developed from Kant's theoretical and practical writings. The German Idealists Fichte and Schelling, for example, attempted to bring traditionally "metaphysically" laden notions like "the Absolute," "God," or "Being" into the scope of Kant's critical philosophy.[66] In so doing, the German Idealists attempted to reverse Kant's establishment of the unknowableness of unexperiencable ideas.
Hegel was one of the first major critics of Kant's philosophy. Hegel thought Kant's moral philosophy was too formal, abstract and ahistorical. In response to Kant's abstract and formal account of morality, Hegel developed an ethics that considered the "ethical life" of the community.[67] But Hegel's notion of "ethical life" is meant to subsume, rather than replace, Kantian "morality." And Hegel's philosophical work as a whole can be understood as attempting to defend Kant's conception of freedom as going beyond finite "inclinations," by means of reason. Thus, in contrast to later critics like Friedrich Nietzsche or Bertrand Russell, Hegel shares some of Kant's most basic concerns.[68]
Many British Roman Catholic writers, notably G. K. Chesterton and Hilaire Belloc, seized on Kant and promoted his work, with a view to restoring the philosophical legitimacy of a belief in God. Reaction against this, and an attack on Kant's use of language, is found in Ronald Englefield's article, Kant as Defender of the Faith in Nineteenth-century England[69], reprinted in Critique of Pure Verbiage, Essays on Abuses of Language in Literary, Religious, and Philosophical Writings.[70] These criticisms of Kant were common in the anti-idealistic arguments of the logical positivism school and its admirers.
Arthur Schopenhauer was strongly influenced by Kant's transcendental idealism. He, like G. E. Schulze, Jacobi and Fichte before him, was critical of Kant's theory of the thing in itself. Things in themselves, they argued, are neither the cause of our representations nor are they something completely beyond our access.[71] For Schopenhauer things in themselves do not exist independently of the non-rational will. The world, as Schopenhauer would have it, is the striving and largely unconscious will.
With the success and wide influence of Hegel's writings, Kant's influence began to wane, though there was in Germany a brief movement that hailed a return to Kant in the 1860s, beginning with the publication of Kant und die Epigonen in 1865 by Otto Liebmann, whose motto was "Back to Kant". During the turn of the 20th century there was an important revival of Kant's theoretical philosophy, known as Marburg Neo-Kantianism, represented in the work of Hermann Cohen, Paul Natorp, Ernst Cassirer,[72] and anti-Neo-Kantian Nicolai Hartmann.[73]
Jurgen Habermas and John Rawls are two significant political and moral philosophers whose work is strongly influenced by Kant's moral philosophy.[74] They both, regardless of recent relativist trends in philosophy, have argued that universality is essential to any viable moral philosophy.
West German postage stamp, 1974, commemorating the 250th anniversary of Kant's birth.
With his Perpetual Peace, Kant is considered to have foreshadowed many of the ideas that have come to form the democratic peace theory, one of the main controversies in political science.[citation needed]
Kant's notion of "Critique" or criticism has been quite influential. The Early German Romantics, especially Friedrich Schlegel in his "Athenaeum Fragments", used Kant's self-reflexive conception of criticism in their Romantic theory of poetry.[75] Also in Aesthetics, Clement Greenberg, in his classic essay "Modernist Painting", uses Kantian criticism, what Greenberg refers to as "immanent criticism", to justify the aims of Abstract painting, a movement Greenberg saw as aware of the key limitiaton—flatness—that makes up the medium of painting.[76]
Kant believed that mathematical truths were forms of synthetic a priori knowledge, which means they are necessary and universal, yet known through intuition.[77] Kant’s often brief remarks about mathematics influenced the mathematical school known as intuitionism, a movement in philosophy of mathematics opposed to Hilbert’s formalism, and the logicism of Frege and Bertrand Russell.[78]
Kant's work on mathematics and synthetic a priori knowledge is also cited by theoretical physicist Albert Einstein as an early influence on his intellectual development.[79]
Post-Kantian philosophy has yet to return to the style of thinking and arguing that characterized much of philosophy and metaphysics before Kant, although many British and American philosophers have preferred to trace their intellectual origins to Hume,[80] thus bypassing Kant. The British philosopher P. F. Strawson is a notable exception,[81] as is the American philosopher Wilfrid Sellars.[82]
Due in part to the influence of Strawson and Sellars, among others, there has been a renewed interest in Kant's view of the mind. Central to many debates in philosophy of psychology and cognitive science is Kant's conception of the unity of consciousness.[83]
The Emmanuel Kants, a drinking society
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larry_boy_44
Footballguy
in other words, she's overrated in every way and, honestly, will be unlikely to be highly rated...Especially when you consider all the people who fit in "celebrity" category who aren't modern...
Either way, however, there are much, much better picks for "celebrity" than Marylin Monroe on the board still...
Abrantes
Footballguy
I honestly can't think of many figures who have fascinated as many people or been worshipped for as long as Marilyn. I don't think there's much of a case for her being overrated as a sex symbol or a publically recognized figure, since you state that she's overrated in every way.
He is the last of the first tier military guys IMO, probably top 4 or 5 in my book. I'm not sure how much love he'll get from everybody else though.
timschochet
Footballguy
Abrantes, moving Gandhi to Rebel and Cyrus to leader.
You guys need to instruct me when you want someone moved. Otherwise, when you choose a second person for a category you already have filled, I'm only guessing.
You guys need to instruct me when you want someone moved. Otherwise, when you choose a second person for a category you already have filled, I'm only guessing.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Sorry, another brief writeup, will expand later.
6.03 (103rd pick) - Paul Cezanne - Painter
(1839-1906) – "Cezanne is the father of us all." This lapidary phrase has been attributed to both Picasso and XXXXX, and certainly it doesn't matter who actually said it, because in either case is true.
While he exhibited with the Impressionist painters, Cézanne left behind the whole group to develop a style of painting never seen so far, which opened the door for the arrival of Cubism and the rest of the vanguards of the twentieth century
ETA: images and bio info
Self Portrait 1875
Jas de Bouffan 1876
Self Portrait 1878-80
Jas de Bouffan 1885-1887
The Card Players 1890 - 92
Mont Sainte-Victoire 1890-94
Man with Pipe 1892-96
Woman in a Green Hat 1894-1895
Ginger Jar and Fruit 1895
Still Life with Curtain 1895
Still Life with Apples and Oranges 1895-1900
Seated Peasant 1895-1900
Quarry and Mont Sainte-Victoire 1898-1900
Large Bathers 1899-1906
Still Life 1900
More paintings here
Early Life and work
Paul Cezanne was born on January 19, 1839, as the son of a wealthy banker in the southern French town of Aix-en-Provence. Cezanne develops artistic interest at an early age and joins his boyhood companion and author
in Paris in 1861, after many disputes with his father over his desire to dedicate himself to painting. Cezanne's stay in Paris lasted only six months. Though attracted by the more radical art forms in Paris, admiring the innovating works by
,
and
, he destroys many canvases during depressive moments and returns home full of self-doubt. A year spent working with his father, however, convinced him to try a painter's life again. Cezanne's early works were dark and composed of heavy, fluid pigment suggesting the moody, romantic expression of previous generations.
Cezanne returns to Paris suffering a new defeat when failing the entrance exam for the Ecole des Beaux-Arts. Worse, his paintings are rejected by the Salon. Thanks to
, he is introduced to Impressionist painters such as
and
.
1870
At 30, Cezanne changes his style and his habits. He meets Hortense Fiquet who becomes his mistress for many years. The black and morbid atmosphere of his painting gradually changes as he concentrates on landscape subjects. This period is also known as "constructive", characterized by the grouping of parallel, hatched brushstrokes that have the power to build a feeling of mass. After the birth of his son, Cezanne moved with his family to Pontoise, where
lived. For two years the two men spent long periods together.
introduces him to Impressionist painting and his work is finally exhibited together with other Impressionist works in 1874.
's influence is seen through the somewhat lightened palette. Throughout his career, will faithfully keep painting directly from nature. However, Cezanne reacted against the lack of structure in the Impressionist paintings and said that he intended to make Impressionism into "something solid and durable, like the art of the museums". He did innovate beyond Impressionism and is ranked alongside the Post-Impressionist artists
,
and
.
For many years, still-lifes and landscapes were Cezanne's main topics. Composing more than 200 still-life paintings, Cezanne wants to 'conquer Paris with an apple'. 'Apples and Oranges' is one of his most famous still-life compositions. Applying the same methodical analysis to these works as he did with his landscapes, Cezanne records the slightest variations in tone and color observed over long periods as well as the forms from empirical geometry he considered the most frequent in nature - the 'cylinder, sphere and the cone'.
1880
In 1881, Cezanne's brother-in-law bought a house with a view on the Saint-Victoire mountain. He feels this mountain in his compositions is the essence of all that he had felt had eluded the Impressionists - firmness, solidity, permanence.
When in 1886
's publishes
, Cezanne was deeply hurt by the resemblances to the main character, which was a failed artist. This leads to the end of his friendship with
. In the same year, Cezanne reveals the existence of his family to his parents and then marries Hortense. Later that year, Cezanne's father dies, leaving him a comfortable inheritence.
The next few years, Cezanne becomes increasingly isolated from his family in Paris while he stays in Aix. Cutting himself off from the outer world, he lives the life of a recluse.
1890
In his late fifties however, Cezanne's work finally began to attract the attention it deserves. Ambroise Vollard, a renowned art dealer, organises an exhibit of Cezanne's work in Paris in 1895. Appreciation and acceptance of his innovative work follows, and Vollard even buys every painting from Cezanne's studio in 1897. Young artists travel to Aix to see him at work.
End of his life
Cezanne's artistic search leads him to study the same subjects over and over, varying his approach each time. 'The Great Bathers', a monumental piece showing women in a landscape, is a revision of a favourite subject, first explored in 1875.
In later years, Cezanne's health detriorated. On October 22 1906, Cezanne dies of pneumonia.
6.03 (103rd pick) - Paul Cezanne - Painter
(1839-1906) – "Cezanne is the father of us all." This lapidary phrase has been attributed to both Picasso and XXXXX, and certainly it doesn't matter who actually said it, because in either case is true.
While he exhibited with the Impressionist painters, Cézanne left behind the whole group to develop a style of painting never seen so far, which opened the door for the arrival of Cubism and the rest of the vanguards of the twentieth century
ETA: images and bio info
Self Portrait 1875
Jas de Bouffan 1876
Self Portrait 1878-80
Jas de Bouffan 1885-1887
The Card Players 1890 - 92
Mont Sainte-Victoire 1890-94
Man with Pipe 1892-96
Woman in a Green Hat 1894-1895
Ginger Jar and Fruit 1895
Still Life with Curtain 1895
Still Life with Apples and Oranges 1895-1900
Seated Peasant 1895-1900
Quarry and Mont Sainte-Victoire 1898-1900
Large Bathers 1899-1906
Still Life 1900
More paintings here
greatly admired his use of color. He used color with passion and creativity, giving his brush strokes structure, solidity, durability. Pablo Picasso said the following of the artist "My one and only master . . . Cezanne was like the father of us all". Cezanne is therefore often described as the "father of modern art". Unfortunately, Cezanne was the ultimate outsider and misunderstood during most of his life. Success came little and late, although young promising painters came to visit him during his last years.
Early Life and work
Paul Cezanne was born on January 19, 1839, as the son of a wealthy banker in the southern French town of Aix-en-Provence. Cezanne develops artistic interest at an early age and joins his boyhood companion and author
Emile Zola
Eugène Delacroix
Gustave Courbet
Edouard Manet
Cezanne returns to Paris suffering a new defeat when failing the entrance exam for the Ecole des Beaux-Arts. Worse, his paintings are rejected by the Salon. Thanks to
Pissarro
Manet
Degas
1870
At 30, Cezanne changes his style and his habits. He meets Hortense Fiquet who becomes his mistress for many years. The black and morbid atmosphere of his painting gradually changes as he concentrates on landscape subjects. This period is also known as "constructive", characterized by the grouping of parallel, hatched brushstrokes that have the power to build a feeling of mass. After the birth of his son, Cezanne moved with his family to Pontoise, where
Pissarro
Pissarro
Pissarro
Seurat
Van Gogh
Gauguin
For many years, still-lifes and landscapes were Cezanne's main topics. Composing more than 200 still-life paintings, Cezanne wants to 'conquer Paris with an apple'. 'Apples and Oranges' is one of his most famous still-life compositions. Applying the same methodical analysis to these works as he did with his landscapes, Cezanne records the slightest variations in tone and color observed over long periods as well as the forms from empirical geometry he considered the most frequent in nature - the 'cylinder, sphere and the cone'.
1880
In 1881, Cezanne's brother-in-law bought a house with a view on the Saint-Victoire mountain. He feels this mountain in his compositions is the essence of all that he had felt had eluded the Impressionists - firmness, solidity, permanence.
When in 1886
Emile Zola
L'Oeuvre
Zola
The next few years, Cezanne becomes increasingly isolated from his family in Paris while he stays in Aix. Cutting himself off from the outer world, he lives the life of a recluse.
1890
In his late fifties however, Cezanne's work finally began to attract the attention it deserves. Ambroise Vollard, a renowned art dealer, organises an exhibit of Cezanne's work in Paris in 1895. Appreciation and acceptance of his innovative work follows, and Vollard even buys every painting from Cezanne's studio in 1897. Young artists travel to Aix to see him at work.
End of his life
Cezanne's artistic search leads him to study the same subjects over and over, varying his approach each time. 'The Great Bathers', a monumental piece showing women in a landscape, is a revision of a favourite subject, first explored in 1875.
In later years, Cezanne's health detriorated. On October 22 1906, Cezanne dies of pneumonia.
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Abrantes
Footballguy
Sorry, boss.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Just to follow up on yesterday, you were correct to put Cleopatra as a Leader and Lao Tzu as a Philosopher on my roster, but ultimately I may have to move Cleopatra to wildcard depending on how the draft unfolds.Thanks.
Abrantes
Footballguy
LOVE Cézanne. I have absolutely no idea where he'll end up in the final ranking, but he's awesome.
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Uncle Humuna
Footballguy
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Don't do it Larry. Don't bring her up...
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
<--- doesn't spotlight
mad sweeney
Footballguy
It's ok to spotlight her becasue there is no way in hell she belongs in this draft. But just don't bring her up in general.
timschochet
Footballguy
Interesting thing about Kant- you all know who my favorite political novelist is. I'm not nearly as much of a fan of her non-fiction work as I am her novels, but from what I've read, she regards Kant is the greatest villain of all time. Not kidding here. Worse than Marx, worse than Plato (whom she hates) worse than Hitler or Stalin. Kant, to her, is the source from which all of our misery stems.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
6.04 Herbert The Hippo - On The Clock until 6:30 p.m. EST
6.05 Andy Dufresne - On Deck
6.06 thatguy - In The Hole
6.07 Usual21
6.08 John Madden's Lunchbox
6.09 higgins
6.09 higgins
6.10 Big Rocks
6.11 Mad Sweeney
6.12 Doug B
6.13 DC Thunder
6.14 Thorn
6.15 Yankee23fan
6.16 Acer FC
6.17 FUBAR
6.18 Arsenal of Doom
6.19 Larry Boy 44
6.20 Mario Kart
6.05 Andy Dufresne - On Deck
6.06 thatguy - In The Hole
6.07 Usual21
6.08 John Madden's Lunchbox
6.09 higgins
6.09 higgins
6.10 Big Rocks
6.11 Mad Sweeney
6.12 Doug B
6.13 DC Thunder
6.14 Thorn
6.15 Yankee23fan
6.16 Acer FC
6.17 FUBAR
6.18 Arsenal of Doom
6.19 Larry Boy 44
6.20 Mario Kart
thatguy
Footballguy
For Herbert the Hippo:
6.4 JUDAS - VILLAIN
Judas Iscariot, Hebrew: יהודה איש־קריות "Yehuda" was, according to the New Testament, one of the twelve original Apostles of Jesus. Among the twelve, he was apparently designated to keep account of the "money bag" but he is most traditionally known for his role in Jesus' betrayal into the hands of Roman authorities.[2]
His name is also associated with a Gnostic gospel, the Gospel of Judas, that exists in an early fourth century #### text. Judas has been a figure of great interest to esoteric groups, such as many Gnostic sects, and has also been the subject of many philosophical writings, including The Problem of Natural Evil by #### and "Three Versions of Judas", a short story by ####.
The term Judas has entered many languages as a synonym for betrayer, and Judas has become the archetype of the betrayer in Western art and literature. Judas is given some role in virtually all literature telling the Passion story, and appears in a number of modern novels and movies.
6.4 JUDAS - VILLAIN
Judas Iscariot, Hebrew: יהודה איש־קריות "Yehuda" was, according to the New Testament, one of the twelve original Apostles of Jesus. Among the twelve, he was apparently designated to keep account of the "money bag" but he is most traditionally known for his role in Jesus' betrayal into the hands of Roman authorities.[2]
His name is also associated with a Gnostic gospel, the Gospel of Judas, that exists in an early fourth century #### text. Judas has been a figure of great interest to esoteric groups, such as many Gnostic sects, and has also been the subject of many philosophical writings, including The Problem of Natural Evil by #### and "Three Versions of Judas", a short story by ####.
The term Judas has entered many languages as a synonym for betrayer, and Judas has become the archetype of the betrayer in Western art and literature. Judas is given some role in virtually all literature telling the Passion story, and appears in a number of modern novels and movies.
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Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Guy gets a bad rap for just following Jesus' orders.
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thatguy
Footballguy
Done. Did I miss anything?
Abrantes
Footballguy
All good.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
6.5: Spartacus - Rebel
thatguy
Footballguy
Damn it I was hoping you'd take longer as I have like ten names I'm juggling.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
This guy isn't getting enough love. Egyptian civilization was extraordinary, and the roots of western civilization lie in Egypt. This was the greatest Pharoah of all time. A gigantic figure in the cradle of civilization. And he ruled for 66 years!Big Rocks said:
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I liked it. I was going to research which Egyptian to take myself. I love watching stuff on Egyptian culture on the History Channel and such.
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
I almost took this guy in round 2...Big Rocks said:
Ozymandias
Footballguy
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I'm embarrassed to say that I didn't consider him. Damn fine - no, great pick here.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I wholeheartedly disapprove of the use of Biblical figures (other than Jesus, of course) in this draft.
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
really? Why?
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Because they're mythological. And I'm being serious.Why don't I just pick the Greek god Nike for my athlete?
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Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Don't make me drive up to the frozen north and beat you sensless with my bible.
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
oh come on!I can kind of understand that explanation with Moses or Abraham...But many Bible characters are factual people... Just as much as someone like Sun Tzu or Homer is... Heck, there are historians who think Shakespeare was a woman or a combination of a number of different writers or a ton of other nonsense...And the thing that confuses me the most is you didn't say this when Abraham and Moses are mentioned, but do when Judas is mentioned... I mean, if anything, out of those three Judas is the most likely to be an actual person who lived....
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
No different than beating me to death with a Dr. Seuss book.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Not true. Suess could drop the rhymes better then Dr. Dre.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I just bring it up now knowing that the picks won't get overturned anyway. Just voicing my displeasure.I think Moses, Abraham, and Judas are all equally invalid.And regardless of what gender Shakespeare was, there's no doubt that it was a real person.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
You're just upset because there isn't a chance in hell that anyone from Minnesota gets drafted in this you pasty neocon.
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
you really doubt that Judas was a real person? Seriously?I can understand doubting that everything the Bible says happened actually happened, but stating the every single Biblical character outside of Jesus is as fictional as the Greek God Nike is just uninformed and, honestly, beneath you... You know good and well that a vast majority of the characters actually existed (even if their stories could be exaggerated a bit in the Bible)...like I said... where were your complaints with Moses or Abraham? Where are your complaints about Homer and Sun Tzu? Why single out the Bible?
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Andy asked me never to tell, but the fact is that he had a really really nice mutlicolored coat that he loved when he was younger and his brothers beat him up and took it from him and left him at an unlce's house where he was forced to watch Jimmy Carter speeches.I'm sorry Andy. I know you didn't want anyone else to know that. But it's out there now. You can heal and move on.
Big Rocks
Footballguy
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
:honda:I said that 20 pages ago...Plus, it led me to figure out what your username meant.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
Maybe. But some things are worth repeating.:honda:I said that 20 pages ago...
Big Rocks
Footballguy
I must not have been paying attention then...:honda:I said that 20 pages ago...
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
You guys didn't go see Watchmen? Sheesh. j/k:honda:I said that 20 pages ago...
flysack
Footballguy
Catching up -
1. Mister CIA, you'd be crazy not to slot Kant in the Philosopher category. As someone said, he's a philosopher's philosopher. Top 5 IMO. Great pick.
2. There's a reason everyone avoided picking a Celebrity until the 5th round. It's because the notion of celebrity is a 20th century phenomenon. Though the word's etymology goes back to the Latin celebritatem, meaning "famous" or "thronged" (OED), we didn't start widely using the term until the the 19th century. The OED traces the first contemporary usage to EXXXXX in 1856, when he wrote, "One of the celebrities of wealth and fashion confessed that..." The next known usage doesn't occur until 1876. The idea may have been born in the 19th century, but it didn't become a phenomenon until the 20th century. Why?
Film.
The idea of celebrity was really born through film, the mass marketing of image and popular fame. Pre-film people may have become famous, but they weren't thought of as celebrities in our sense of the word. Shakespeare could walk down a London street and not a person would recognize him. Same with anyone else "famous" before film and television turned fame into a mass produced, broadcasted image. Then actors become spokespersons and political figures. Rock N Roll musicians became actors. Their faces became more important than their ability. The Beatles couldn't act worth a crap; but they were in a movie that's still watched today. Why? Recognition factor. They became familiar via their image, so familiar that they transcended their genre (musician) and became celebrity figures. Their face became more important than their playing ability.
This is why Marilyn Monroe is the quintessential celebrity.
Monroe couldn't act.
Monroe couldn't sing (did you see Niagara? Even editing couldn't save her dreadful voice).
Monroe couldn't do much of anything except look good and appear in places with other well known people.
She managed to wrangle fame out of this. She managed to shag important people, even marrying a few. Many believe her death was a result of shagging the wrong set of brothers. Conspiracies surround her, transcend her, turned her into something above and beyond a mere vamp with sex appeal. She became an American icon.
This is celebrity.
I think you'll be hard pressed to find one before the 20th century. Next to Alexander the Great or Dostoevsky, celebrities aren't world shakers. They're images first, people second. Images don't affect history or ideas; they affect fads of identity and fashion. Celebrities are the mirrors of popular self-image. This is what makes a good celebrity. They may or may not be talented. What matters isn't their talent, it's that they inhabit what GXX DXXXXX called "the spectacle of the image." In less jargonic terms: they inhabit the limelight. The best celebrities stay there for decades. The greatest stay there past their own deaths, more often than not surrounded in an eternal cocoon of conspiracy theory. Monroe's "suicide" was staged. An FBI plot. A CIA plot. Et cetera. I'd give more examples, but it'd spotlight far too much, even in code. Think of any celebrity who lasted beyond their death. Either the circumstances of their death is thrown in question (rightly or wrongly) or people still see them sitting in football stadiums. They never go away.
You can probably tell I've studied the idea of celebrity. It was crucial to some work I once did. The celebrity judge may see things differently. I just wanted to drop my knowledge in the draft.
1. Mister CIA, you'd be crazy not to slot Kant in the Philosopher category. As someone said, he's a philosopher's philosopher. Top 5 IMO. Great pick.
2. There's a reason everyone avoided picking a Celebrity until the 5th round. It's because the notion of celebrity is a 20th century phenomenon. Though the word's etymology goes back to the Latin celebritatem, meaning "famous" or "thronged" (OED), we didn't start widely using the term until the the 19th century. The OED traces the first contemporary usage to EXXXXX in 1856, when he wrote, "One of the celebrities of wealth and fashion confessed that..." The next known usage doesn't occur until 1876. The idea may have been born in the 19th century, but it didn't become a phenomenon until the 20th century. Why?
Film.
The idea of celebrity was really born through film, the mass marketing of image and popular fame. Pre-film people may have become famous, but they weren't thought of as celebrities in our sense of the word. Shakespeare could walk down a London street and not a person would recognize him. Same with anyone else "famous" before film and television turned fame into a mass produced, broadcasted image. Then actors become spokespersons and political figures. Rock N Roll musicians became actors. Their faces became more important than their ability. The Beatles couldn't act worth a crap; but they were in a movie that's still watched today. Why? Recognition factor. They became familiar via their image, so familiar that they transcended their genre (musician) and became celebrity figures. Their face became more important than their playing ability.
This is why Marilyn Monroe is the quintessential celebrity.
Monroe couldn't act.
Monroe couldn't sing (did you see Niagara? Even editing couldn't save her dreadful voice).
Monroe couldn't do much of anything except look good and appear in places with other well known people.
She managed to wrangle fame out of this. She managed to shag important people, even marrying a few. Many believe her death was a result of shagging the wrong set of brothers. Conspiracies surround her, transcend her, turned her into something above and beyond a mere vamp with sex appeal. She became an American icon.
This is celebrity.
I think you'll be hard pressed to find one before the 20th century. Next to Alexander the Great or Dostoevsky, celebrities aren't world shakers. They're images first, people second. Images don't affect history or ideas; they affect fads of identity and fashion. Celebrities are the mirrors of popular self-image. This is what makes a good celebrity. They may or may not be talented. What matters isn't their talent, it's that they inhabit what GXX DXXXXX called "the spectacle of the image." In less jargonic terms: they inhabit the limelight. The best celebrities stay there for decades. The greatest stay there past their own deaths, more often than not surrounded in an eternal cocoon of conspiracy theory. Monroe's "suicide" was staged. An FBI plot. A CIA plot. Et cetera. I'd give more examples, but it'd spotlight far too much, even in code. Think of any celebrity who lasted beyond their death. Either the circumstances of their death is thrown in question (rightly or wrongly) or people still see them sitting in football stadiums. They never go away.
You can probably tell I've studied the idea of celebrity. It was crucial to some work I once did. The celebrity judge may see things differently. I just wanted to drop my knowledge in the draft.
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