Would you fire Schottenheimer? (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

The bottom line here is that playoff coaching is a different skill from regular season coaching. They're not mutually exclusive, but they're different. Playoff coaches flat out know what makes their teams tick, what their strengths are, what they can rely upon in crunch time. Their teams don't make stupid mistakes that cost them games because they realize that playoff matchups are close and every point and every possession counts. Unfortunately, Marty just doesn't fit that bill. I think the early crushing disappointments in Cleveland caused him to be on edge in this situation, and it affects his team, probably not in ways that are tangible but does nontheless. It simply always seems to raise its ugly head in the playoffs.

Hi redman,Can you elaborate more on why you think it takes a different skill set to coach in the playoffs than it does in the regular season? What's different in coaching during the regular season and postseason when it comes a a coach that knows "what makes their teams tick, what their strengths are, what they can rely upon in crunch time." Don't you need exactly that same skill set to go 14-2?J

 

[Tau837]

I heard on the radio this morning that Marty's teams have now lost 6 straight playoff games and are 5-13 overall in the playoffs. Everyone is familiar with his notable disappointments in Cleveland and KC. And he is now 0-2 with San Diego, with both losses coming at home to lesser seeds.

I agree that 14-2 is great and that he has done a nice job with this team in the big picture... although it should be noted that his record with the Chargers was only 33-32 entering this season. Also, it's hard to know how much is Marty versus A.J. Smith over the past few years.

Regardless, at some point, doesn't management have to look at this dismal playoff record and weigh that heavily? Can Marty actually get them where they want to go in the postseason? If you say yes, based on what? If you say no, why keep him and potentially waste another year with this talented team? There are only so many years in their window of opportunity, and they have lost three of them without a playoff win.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Regardless, at some point, doesn't management have to look at this dismal playoff record and weigh that heavily? Can Marty actually get them where they want to go in the postseason? If you say yes, based on what? If you say no, why keep him and potentially waste another year with this talented team? There are only so many years in their window of opportunity, and they have lost three of them without a playoff win.

Hi JWB,But management has to look at that and ask themselves how much responsibility must Schottenheimer bear for that loss Sunday?I won't be surprised if they fire him but I think it would be absolutely the wrong move.J

 

[Bri]

As I said in another thread-

I think any radical change could hurt these young players. There's many examples where a team takes a step backward with a new coach initially. The switch from Parcells to Carroll did not go well in New England right after they went to the Supe. They were only 3 games over .500 for the next 3 years. From Holmgren to Rhodes didn't go so well in Green Bay only going 8-8. There's plenty more examples.

Cameron is a "hot" coaching candidate. Him leaving would also be a radical change.

I don't disagree with people that think they need a little more from the coaching staff but starting anew rarely ever works out like you hoped in the NFL.

A "puppet" like Switzer would just continue things and they need to improve. Gruden taking over for Dungy+ winning the Supe was rare to plan on that would be foolish.

Adding an assistant head coach or consultant is the way to go here IMO. That's the best chance for a minor improvement(which is all they need) without moving backwards.

Henning and Marty are friends. Henning's been a head coach and OC on Supe teams. He loves to have his teams run almost too much which I could definitely see San Diego fans liking that type O. Cameron could use some more power/control the clock style to his offense. He'd be a pretty sweet fit there.

 

[Bri]

Hi JWB,But management has to look at that and ask themselves how much responsibility must Schottenheimer bear for that loss Sunday?I won't be surprised if they fire him but I think it would be absolutely the wrong move.J

I don't disagree. I think the NFL is going to issue some fines after that game. When those come it'll be interesting how they react.Is it Marty's fault for not keeping his player in line? Is it the player's lack of composure/professionalism that makes him headbutt someone?Seems the public blames the player's attitude with Moss+Owens yet in Cincy they blame the GM+Coach for getting "troublemakers" in the draft and not controlling them.The reaction should be interesting

 

[DPRugby]

Regardless, at some point, doesn't management have to look at this dismal playoff record and weigh that heavily? Can Marty actually get them where they want to go in the postseason? If you say yes, based on what? If you say no, why keep him and potentially waste another year with this talented team? There are only so many years in their window of opportunity, and they have lost three of them without a playoff win.

Hi JWB,But management has to look at that and ask themselves how much responsibility must Schottenheimer bear for that loss Sunday?I won't be surprised if they fire him but I think it would be absolutely the wrong move.J

JBI'm still not certain why we can't hang the Charger's lack of dicipline on Marty? If he's not responsible then who is? Also, I've always felt it's the coaches job to get players ready to play within themselves and if they aren't then do something about it. Why was Parker even on the field after the first two drops? I would have sit him down and had Turner returning punts. Heck I would have had LT returning punts if I thought it would help.The Chargers came into alot of games this season half and played 1/2 games, 3/4 games. Horrible in the first half, great in the second. Marty's job is to prepare his team to play the whole game and there were plenty of games where they didn't do that. I think he knows how to prepare the X's and O's of the game but I don't think he knows how to prepare players mentaly to win, how to get them to play every down. The great coaches do, I don't put Marty in that group and I think SD would be foolish to waste another year of the talent they have assembled hoping Marty can find the method to get his players playing every down, every game and playing smart football all year long and into the playoffs.(SD homer here and I'm still horribly heartbroken over Sunday, it was the absolute worst loss I have experienced as a football fan, player or spectator).

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

(SD homer here and I'm still horribly heartbroken over Sunday, it was the absolute worst loss I have experienced as a football fan, player or spectator).

This is exactlyy how I feel, but it's still better than 1-15. Now that you can look back, and my emotions are dying down, Marty won't be fired. He's got one more year as far as Im concerned. This charger team looked an awful lot like the 15-1 steeler team that lost to NE a couple years ago. We'll see how they rebound and respond next year.

 

[Bri]

JBI'm still not certain why we can't hang the Charger's lack of dicipline on Marty? If he's not responsible then who is? Also, I've always felt it's the coaches job to get players ready to play within themselves and if they aren't then do something about it. Why was Parker even on the field after the first two drops? I would have sit him down and had Turner returning punts. Heck I would have had LT returning punts if I thought it would help.The Chargers came into alot of games this season half and played 1/2 games, 3/4 games. Horrible in the first half, great in the second. Marty's job is to prepare his team to play the whole game and there were plenty of games where they didn't do that. I think he knows how to prepare the X's and O's of the game but I don't think he knows how to prepare players mentaly to win, how to get them to play every down. The great coaches do, I don't put Marty in that group and I think SD would be foolish to waste another year of the talent they have assembled hoping Marty can find the method to get his players playing every down, every game and playing smart football all year long and into the playoffs.(SD homer here and I'm still horribly heartbroken over Sunday, it was the absolute worst loss I have experienced as a football fan, player or spectator).

Some plays were lack of playoff experience IMO. Marty can't give them that. I would wager a guess that if he simplified thing so much to make them comfy in that environment that it would have been too simple and the Pats would have taken advantage of that. After the game, people said "will to win" "determination" "knowing how to get it done" ....alot of descriptions to describe the Pats final few minutes Sunday. I think I saw some panic in the Chargers defense and they acted uncharacteristically. They probably learned a painful lesson of how they're supposed to react instead. Alot of teams lose one year in the playoffs only to win the Supe the next year. I see no reason why the Chargers can't be the next team to do that. I don't blame the above on the coach. The players have probably heard such a speech many many times in their life. The O came in on that last drive very sharp with a "can do" attitude, special teams seemed fine too. The D didn't. It wasn't the whole team.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

JBI'm still not certain why we can't hang the Charger's lack of dicipline on Marty? If he's not responsible then who is? Also, I've always felt it's the coaches job to get players ready to play within themselves and if they aren't then do something about it. Why was Parker even on the field after the first two drops? I would have sit him down and had Turner returning punts. Heck I would have had LT returning punts if I thought it would help.The Chargers came into alot of games this season half and played 1/2 games, 3/4 games. Horrible in the first half, great in the second. Marty's job is to prepare his team to play the whole game and there were plenty of games where they didn't do that. I think he knows how to prepare the X's and O's of the game but I don't think he knows how to prepare players mentaly to win, how to get them to play every down. The great coaches do, I don't put Marty in that group and I think SD would be foolish to waste another year of the talent they have assembled hoping Marty can find the method to get his players playing every down, every game and playing smart football all year long and into the playoffs.(SD homer here and I'm still horribly heartbroken over Sunday, it was the absolute worst loss I have experienced as a football fan, player or spectator).

Some plays were lack of playoff experience IMO. Marty can't give them that. I would wager a guess that if he simplified thing so much to make them comfy in that environment that it would have been too simple and the Pats would have taken advantage of that. After the game, people said "will to win" "determination" "knowing how to get it done" ....alot of descriptions to describe the Pats final few minutes Sunday. I think I saw some panic in the Chargers defense and they acted uncharacteristically. They probably learned a painful lesson of how they're supposed to react instead. Alot of teams lose one year in the playoffs only to win the Supe the next year. I see no reason why the Chargers can't be the next team to do that. I don't blame the above on the coach. The players have probably heard such a speech many many times in their life. The O came in on that last drive very sharp with a "can do" attitude, special teams seemed fine too. The D didn't. It wasn't the whole team.

This team was in the playoffs in 2004. People seem to forget that, Brees played that game not Rivers, its about the only difference.

 

[Tau837]

Regardless, at some point, doesn't management have to look at this dismal playoff record and weigh that heavily? Can Marty actually get them where they want to go in the postseason? If you say yes, based on what? If you say no, why keep him and potentially waste another year with this talented team? There are only so many years in their window of opportunity, and they have lost three of them without a playoff win.

Hi JWB,But management has to look at that and ask themselves how much responsibility must Schottenheimer bear for that loss Sunday?I won't be surprised if they fire him but I think it would be absolutely the wrong move.J

My main point is that it is about more than just the one game. At what point does 5-13 and a 6 game losing streak, including 0-2 at home with San Diego, become a trend and Marty's fault?And while I understand that players have to execute and keep their heads, I do subscribe to the theory that the head coach is ultimately responsible for the performance of his team on gameday.

 

[LHUCKS]

He's not going to get fired, I dont think the owner wants him gone, hes got 1 year left on his deal. Next year anything less then a superbowl appearance = gone IMO.

What if they make the SuperBowl but Rivers throws three picks on plays where there were open WRs??There comes a time when the players have to execute.

 

[Bri]

This team was in the playoffs in 2004. People seem to forget that,

who?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

He's not going to get fired, I dont think the owner wants him gone, hes got 1 year left on his deal. Next year anything less then a superbowl appearance = gone IMO.

What if they make the SuperBowl but Rivers throws three picks on plays where there were open WRs??There comes a time when the players have to execute.

I said superbowl appearance, man you really hate Phil don't you? What did he do to you?

 

[Tau837]

This team was in the playoffs in 2004. People seem to forget that, Brees played that game not Rivers, its about the only difference.

To be fair, they didn't have:LT McNeill

TE Manumaleuna

WR Jackson

WR Floyd

RB Sproles

DT Castillo

DT McKinney

DE Bingham

DE Robinson

LB Merriman

LB Archer

LB Dobbins

LB Harris

CB Cromartie

CB Gordon

CB Gregory

S McCree

S Jue

And these guys were rookies:

C Hardwick

G Olivea

TE Krause

RB Turner

QB Rivers

DT Olshansky

LB Phillips

K Kaeding

 

[Tau837]

He's not going to get fired, I dont think the owner wants him gone, hes got 1 year left on his deal. Next year anything less then a superbowl appearance = gone IMO.

What if they make the SuperBowl but Rivers throws three picks on plays where there were open WRs??There comes a time when the players have to execute.

Where do you come up with the bolded question? There is no basis for that other than your own bias against Rivers.

 

[sinatravolta]

I would have never hired Marty, but realistically - since they have him - they should give him at least next year.

I think you can point to several things that went wrong in this game that are Marty's fault:

- Going for it on 4th and 11 in a 0-0 game in the first quarter. This is inexcusable and essentially created a 6-point swing. I don't know why this isn't getting more heat. I can't imagine any other coach doing this.

- Wasting a timeout on challenging a play that was obviously not going to be overturned. I don't know what others told Marty about the replay - but this was a wasted TO. I can believe that a decent number of coaches would have also made this mistake - but still - a point against Marty here.

- Multiple personal foul penalties. You just can't have these in key situations in big games. This is partly the players' fault, but some responsibility has to lie with Marty. You have to really drive this point home. Don't let your emotions get the best of you on the field. And after it happens once - gather your players and say "that can NOT happen again - this game means too much to us all. we'll celebrate AFTER the game."

- 8 seconds left. Probably should have taken one shot at a sideline pass before kicking the FG. If it's not there - just have Rivers throw it away. If you weren't willing to let Kaeding kick a 48-yarder in the 1st quarter - why not take a shot to get him 4-8 yards closer when he's going to have to make a 54-yarder with all the additional pressure of a last-second FG?

Still - the team was great this year, and this is the first time they've blown it in the playoffs (even if Marty has done it before) - so I think you've got to give him one more shot - and hopefully the whole team plays smarter in the playoffs next year. I think the odds of winning it all are better that way than having to deal with the changes that come inherently with a new coach.

 

[Tau837]

I would have never hired Marty, but realistically - since they have him - they should give him at least next year.

I think you can point to several things that went wrong in this game that are Marty's fault:

- Going for it on 4th and 11 in a 0-0 game in the first quarter. This is inexcusable and essentially created a 6-point swing. I don't know why this isn't getting more heat. I can't imagine any other coach doing this.

- Wasting a timeout on challenging a play that was obviously not going to be overturned. I don't know what others told Marty about the replay - but this was a wasted TO. I can believe that a decent number of coaches would have also made this mistake - but still - a point against Marty here.

- Multiple personal foul penalties. You just can't have these in key situations in big games. This is partly the players' fault, but some responsibility has to lie with Marty. You have to really drive this point home. Don't let your emotions get the best of you on the field. And after it happens once - gather your players and say "that can NOT happen again - this game means too much to us all. we'll celebrate AFTER the game."

- 8 seconds left. Probably should have taken one shot at a sideline pass before kicking the FG. If it's not there - just have Rivers throw it away. If you weren't willing to let Kaeding kick a 48-yarder in the 1st quarter - why not take a shot to get him 4-8 yards closer when he's going to have to make a 54-yarder with all the additional pressure of a last-second FG?

Still - the team was great this year, and this is the first time they've blown it in the playoffs (even if Marty has done it before) - so I think you've got to give him one more shot - and hopefully the whole team plays smarter in the playoffs next year. I think the odds of winning it all are better that way than having to deal with the changes that come inherently with a new coach.

This is untrue. It is generally accepted that Marty blew their 2004 playoff game by playing Martyball for a long FG from a rookie kicker.

 

[North]

He's not going to get fired, I dont think the owner wants him gone, hes got 1 year left on his deal. Next year anything less then a superbowl appearance = gone IMO.

What if they make the SuperBowl but Rivers throws three picks on plays where there were open WRs??There comes a time when the players have to execute.

Where do you come up with the bolded question? There is no basis for that other than your own bias against Rivers.

I think there was a lack of discipline in general with the team. It is the coaches responsibility to have the team mentally prepared for the game. The 15 yd personal foul and the fumbled int. are perfect examples of not being mentally prepared and knowing what to do in that situation.Marty has had great teams in the past in SD and has yet to progress past the 1st round of the playoffs. Time for him to go.

Plus, management doesn't like him to begin with.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I like the job the coaching staff has done with this team, and I'd like to maintain as much continuity as possible heading into next year.

That could very well mean letting Schottenheimer go.

 

[LHUCKS]

He's not going to get fired, I dont think the owner wants him gone, hes got 1 year left on his deal. Next year anything less then a superbowl appearance = gone IMO.

What if they make the SuperBowl but Rivers throws three picks on plays where there were open WRs??There comes a time when the players have to execute.

Where do you come up with the bolded question?

It's a hypothetical given the "Superbowl or bust" statement.

 

[redman]

The bottom line here is that playoff coaching is a different skill from regular season coaching. They're not mutually exclusive, but they're different.

Playoff coaches flat out know what makes their teams tick, what their strengths are, what they can rely upon in crunch time. Their teams don't make stupid mistakes that cost them games because they realize that playoff matchups are close and every point and every possession counts.

Unfortunately, Marty just doesn't fit that bill. I think the early crushing disappointments in Cleveland caused him to be on edge in this situation, and it affects his team, probably not in ways that are tangible but does nontheless. It simply always seems to raise its ugly head in the playoffs.

Hi redman,Can you elaborate more on why you think it takes a different skill set to coach in the playoffs than it does in the regular season? What's different in coaching during the regular season and postseason when it comes a a coach that knows "what makes their teams tick, what their strengths are, what they can rely upon in crunch time." Don't you need exactly that same skill set to go 14-2?

J

I think you need to know when to take risks, e.g. going for it on 4th down, far better in the playoffs than when you're in the regular season. You take certain risks in the playoffs that you don't necessarily take in the regular season. Bad coaches seem not to know when their teams can handle it, or take those risks at wrong times. Marty's decision not to take the FG early in the game for an early three-point lead is probably a good example. I lead by three points; do I start playing the field position and clock management game or do I try to score a TD even if that exposes me to a greater risk of a turnover or less time taken off of the clock? These are questions that the good playoff coaches seem to answer correctly far more often than they fail to (and no, there isn't one universally correct answer).Also, your management of the clock and the game have to be nearly perfect, or at least very good. The Chargers wasted two time outs in second half, one on a desperate replay challenge and the other on a time out called by Rivers after an injury time out. Those two time outs may have meant as many as four or five additional plays in the final two minutes depending of course on play calls and players getting out of bounds. The additional yardage from those plays may well have gotten Kaeding into FG range to tie the game. This is an area where, as much as any other, Andy Reid falls apart in the playoffs IMHO.

The biggest difference, though, is that there's less margin for error everywhere. Skill matters more in the resgular season; discipline and game sense matter more during the playoffs. Teams that have both are devastating in the playoffs. Teams heavy on skill but light on discipline usually falter in the playoffs, e.g. the Colts (in recent years) and the Chargers. Teams with decent skill but a lot of discipline seem to find ways to win in the playoffs, e.g. the Patriots. To me, the discipline starts at the top.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

He's not going to get fired, I dont think the owner wants him gone, hes got 1 year left on his deal. Next year anything less then a superbowl appearance = gone IMO.

What if they make the SuperBowl but Rivers throws three picks on plays where there were open WRs??There comes a time when the players have to execute.

Where do you come up with the bolded question?

It's a hypothetical given the "Superbowl or bust" statement.

that team is too good and too talented to not have making the big game being the only thing acceptable next season

 

[massraider]

If they didn't fire him last year, when they knew they were going with a 1st year QB, I think it has to be tough to fire him after he takes that first year QB and leads the team to the best record in the league.

I hate Marty, but I thought he did a darn good job with that team. He made a blunder on the timeout thing, but it never should have gotten to that point, IMO.

Bonehead plays by his players cost them the game.

"The coach is resposible for the actions of his players"---Yep, in a perfect world. In reality, these are men, and I am sure Marty has taught Drayton Florence not to attack the opposing players after the whistle.

And don't forget--Marty didn't pick those players, did he?

 

[Joe Bryant]

The bottom line here is that playoff coaching is a different skill from regular season coaching. They're not mutually exclusive, but they're different.

Playoff coaches flat out know what makes their teams tick, what their strengths are, what they can rely upon in crunch time. Their teams don't make stupid mistakes that cost them games because they realize that playoff matchups are close and every point and every possession counts.

Unfortunately, Marty just doesn't fit that bill. I think the early crushing disappointments in Cleveland caused him to be on edge in this situation, and it affects his team, probably not in ways that are tangible but does nontheless. It simply always seems to raise its ugly head in the playoffs.

Hi redman,Can you elaborate more on why you think it takes a different skill set to coach in the playoffs than it does in the regular season? What's different in coaching during the regular season and postseason when it comes a a coach that knows "what makes their teams tick, what their strengths are, what they can rely upon in crunch time." Don't you need exactly that same skill set to go 14-2?

J

I think you need to know when to take risks, e.g. going for it on 4th down, far better in the playoffs than when you're in the regular season. You take certain risks in the playoffs that you don't necessarily take in the regular season. Bad coaches seem not to know when their teams can handle it, or take those risks at wrong times. Marty's decision not to take the FG early in the game for an early three-point lead is probably a good example. I lead by three points; do I start playing the field position and clock management game or do I try to score a TD even if that exposes me to a greater risk of a turnover or less time taken off of the clock? These are questions that the good playoff coaches seem to answer correctly far more often than they fail to (and no, there isn't one universally correct answer).Also, your management of the clock and the game have to be nearly perfect, or at least very good. The Chargers wasted two time outs in second half, one on a desperate replay challenge and the other on a time out called by Rivers after an injury time out. Those two time outs may have meant as many as four or five additional plays in the final two minutes depending of course on play calls and players getting out of bounds. The additional yardage from those plays may well have gotten Kaeding into FG range to tie the game. This is an area where, as much as any other, Andy Reid falls apart in the playoffs IMHO.

The biggest difference, though, is that there's less margin for error everywhere. Skill matters more in the resgular season; discipline and game sense matter more during the playoffs. Teams that have both are devastating in the playoffs. Teams heavy on skill but light on discipline usually falter in the playoffs, e.g. the Colts (in recent years) and the Chargers. Teams with decent skill but a lot of discipline seem to find ways to win in the playoffs, e.g. the Patriots. To me, the discipline starts at the top.

Thanks for sharing redman. I just disagree. I think every coach is going for the win in big regular season games as hard as he can go. They don't change the rules for the playoffs. You still play the game to win. I just really can't agree the coaches say "Ah, it's just a regular season game, we'll just give this a shot and see how it goes" but then in the playoffs get really geared up and try to win.

I think they go for the win with all they've got in every big game. Regular season or playoffs.

But I understand what you're saying.

J

 

[Tau837]

The bottom line here is that playoff coaching is a different skill from regular season coaching. They're not mutually exclusive, but they're different.

Playoff coaches flat out know what makes their teams tick, what their strengths are, what they can rely upon in crunch time. Their teams don't make stupid mistakes that cost them games because they realize that playoff matchups are close and every point and every possession counts.

Unfortunately, Marty just doesn't fit that bill. I think the early crushing disappointments in Cleveland caused him to be on edge in this situation, and it affects his team, probably not in ways that are tangible but does nontheless. It simply always seems to raise its ugly head in the playoffs.

Hi redman,Can you elaborate more on why you think it takes a different skill set to coach in the playoffs than it does in the regular season? What's different in coaching during the regular season and postseason when it comes a a coach that knows "what makes their teams tick, what their strengths are, what they can rely upon in crunch time." Don't you need exactly that same skill set to go 14-2?

J

I think you need to know when to take risks, e.g. going for it on 4th down, far better in the playoffs than when you're in the regular season. You take certain risks in the playoffs that you don't necessarily take in the regular season. Bad coaches seem not to know when their teams can handle it, or take those risks at wrong times. Marty's decision not to take the FG early in the game for an early three-point lead is probably a good example. I lead by three points; do I start playing the field position and clock management game or do I try to score a TD even if that exposes me to a greater risk of a turnover or less time taken off of the clock? These are questions that the good playoff coaches seem to answer correctly far more often than they fail to (and no, there isn't one universally correct answer).Also, your management of the clock and the game have to be nearly perfect, or at least very good. The Chargers wasted two time outs in second half, one on a desperate replay challenge and the other on a time out called by Rivers after an injury time out. Those two time outs may have meant as many as four or five additional plays in the final two minutes depending of course on play calls and players getting out of bounds. The additional yardage from those plays may well have gotten Kaeding into FG range to tie the game. This is an area where, as much as any other, Andy Reid falls apart in the playoffs IMHO.

The biggest difference, though, is that there's less margin for error everywhere. Skill matters more in the resgular season; discipline and game sense matter more during the playoffs. Teams that have both are devastating in the playoffs. Teams heavy on skill but light on discipline usually falter in the playoffs, e.g. the Colts (in recent years) and the Chargers. Teams with decent skill but a lot of discipline seem to find ways to win in the playoffs, e.g. the Patriots. To me, the discipline starts at the top.

Thanks for sharing redman. I just disagree. I think every coach is going for the win in big regular season games as hard as he can go. They don't change the rules for the playoffs. You still play the game to win. I just really can't agree the coaches say "Ah, it's just a regular season game, we'll just give this a shot and see how it goes" but then in the playoffs get really geared up and try to win.

I think they go for the win with all they've got in every big game. Regular season or playoffs.

But I understand what you're saying.

J

So do you dismiss the notion of teams with playoff experience, like the Pats, having an edge over teams without playoff experience, like the Chargers?

 

[Gr00vus]

The bottom line here is that playoff coaching is a different skill from regular season coaching. They're not mutually exclusive, but they're different.

Playoff coaches flat out know what makes their teams tick, what their strengths are, what they can rely upon in crunch time. Their teams don't make stupid mistakes that cost them games because they realize that playoff matchups are close and every point and every possession counts.

Unfortunately, Marty just doesn't fit that bill. I think the early crushing disappointments in Cleveland caused him to be on edge in this situation, and it affects his team, probably not in ways that are tangible but does nontheless. It simply always seems to raise its ugly head in the playoffs.

Hi redman,Can you elaborate more on why you think it takes a different skill set to coach in the playoffs than it does in the regular season? What's different in coaching during the regular season and postseason when it comes a a coach that knows "what makes their teams tick, what their strengths are, what they can rely upon in crunch time." Don't you need exactly that same skill set to go 14-2?

J

I think you need to know when to take risks, e.g. going for it on 4th down, far better in the playoffs than when you're in the regular season. You take certain risks in the playoffs that you don't necessarily take in the regular season. Bad coaches seem not to know when their teams can handle it, or take those risks at wrong times. Marty's decision not to take the FG early in the game for an early three-point lead is probably a good example. I lead by three points; do I start playing the field position and clock management game or do I try to score a TD even if that exposes me to a greater risk of a turnover or less time taken off of the clock? These are questions that the good playoff coaches seem to answer correctly far more often than they fail to (and no, there isn't one universally correct answer).Also, your management of the clock and the game have to be nearly perfect, or at least very good. The Chargers wasted two time outs in second half, one on a desperate replay challenge and the other on a time out called by Rivers after an injury time out. Those two time outs may have meant as many as four or five additional plays in the final two minutes depending of course on play calls and players getting out of bounds. The additional yardage from those plays may well have gotten Kaeding into FG range to tie the game. This is an area where, as much as any other, Andy Reid falls apart in the playoffs IMHO.

The biggest difference, though, is that there's less margin for error everywhere. Skill matters more in the resgular season; discipline and game sense matter more during the playoffs. Teams that have both are devastating in the playoffs. Teams heavy on skill but light on discipline usually falter in the playoffs, e.g. the Colts (in recent years) and the Chargers. Teams with decent skill but a lot of discipline seem to find ways to win in the playoffs, e.g. the Patriots. To me, the discipline starts at the top.

In the playoffs you have to be James Bond as the coach - when everyone else is screwing up, when everything is going wrong you have to make up for it and rise above it.

Marty contributed to the disaster and did very little to assuage it. Yeah the players screwed up (which I believe is also a reflection of a coaching failure), but Marty was presented with opportunities to do damage control and instead he just threw gasoline on the fire. Players are going to lose their heads, they're not the brain trust. When coaches fail in their jobs as coaches managing the mental aspects of the game in crunch time it's time to find another coach.

In the lead up to the game I heard Marty talk about how tough the Chargers were, how physical they were, etc. I never heard him say how disciplined they were, how smart they were - and those are the things that separate playoff winners from playoff losers. I really don't think he knows what it takes, and it's way too late for him to figure it out now.

 

[Rovers]

I find it hard to blame any coach for the sort of lack of discipline a few Charger players displayed in that game. I think the biggest challenge teams face when drafting players is "character". That includes on field discipline as much as anything else. These days of the "in your face" sort of culture is I think, hard to combat, it's part of the whole issue. The NFL sees it, that's why they cracked down on the so called "taunting" penalties. Celebrate, but don't do it standing over the QB you just sacked.

LT took a lot of heat for his comments, but I understand his frustration.... the days of good sportmanship seems like a distant memory. When HC's become too disciplinarian, the players whine to no end. Getting FA's and still being a tough task master is a very fine line to walk these days.

Back on topic, I wouldn't fire the guy. It wasn't his fault when his rookie kicker missed a makable FG against the Jets two years ago. I don't see this loss as his fault either. His game plan was good, yeah, the challenge was awful, but did that come from his eyes up in the booth? I'd give him another year.

 

[Gr00vus]

Going for it on 4th and 11 was possibly the dumbest football decision I've ever seen. I don't care what anybody is telling you, I don't care that you've handed off all they play calling to your ACs - at that point you have to use your HC perogative and make an executive decision that I'm not going to make an idiotic decision. That is firing worthy in itself. Then there's everything else that he did wrong.

And discipline is related to coaching, he failed there too.

I told my friend when it happened that that decision just lost them the game, and sure enough it did.

 

[Joe Summer]

TAP

 

[Crash Davis]

TAP

What does Air Portugal have to do with this?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

If there's one thing I've learned from my fellow NFL fans, it's that everybody should always be fired.