WR Allen Robinson (1 Viewer)

[Stuart Ullman]

Anywho, I'll let you guys enjoy your thread. I had a similar argument a few weeks ago in the Cam Akers thread where everybody was telling me despite the guy having a torn achilles which no RB has ever come back from, he would be productive and a better pick than Henderson.

RB Cam Akers, MIN

Rams RB Cam Akers disappointed in Super Bowl run: 'There wasn't really a lot of celebrating for me'

forums.footballguys.com

They chose to argue my facts with their feelings and Week 1 they were left holding the bag of ****. There's thousands of people who read these threads, there's bound to be disagreements and people are polar opposites of the spectrum. No matter how compelling either of our cases may be, neither of us will change our minds and that's totally fine.



LET'S LET THE PLAY ON THE FIELD DETERMINE WHO WAS RIGHT AND WRONG.

 

[Deamon]

778-330-2389

Number is out of service. Nice try though.

 

[Stuart Ullman]

778-330-2389

Number is out of service. Nice try though.

It was supposed to be Rick Astley. :(

 

[Deamon]

778-330-2389

Number is out of service. Nice try though.

It was supposed to be Rick Astley. :(

ok.

 

[candian fantasy guy]

I’m with Stuart on this one and he backs up his argument quite well.

I’m a Bears fan, I avoided A Rob on my 13 redraft teams and traded him away in a dynasty this year.

I also drafted R Woods last year OVER Kupp. There was no way I was watching that again.

A Rob believers gonna believe, I guess.

 

[Deamon]

I’m with Stuart on this one

You would drop him for Van Jefferson tomorrow if you had the chance in your fantasy league?

 

[candian fantasy guy]

I’m with Stuart on this one

You would drop him for Van Jefferson tomorrow if you had the chance in your fantasy league?

Semantics

 

[Stuart Ullman]

I’m with Stuart on this one

You would drop him for Van Jefferson tomorrow if you had the chance in your fantasy league?

Last season, on opening day Van Jefferson caught 2 passes for 80 yards and a touchdown.

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[Stuart Ullman]

I’m with Stuart on this one

You would drop him for Van Jefferson tomorrow if you had the chance in your fantasy league?

Last season, on opening day Van Jefferson caught 2 passes for 80 yards and a touchdown.

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Which is funny because Gabe Davis' statline was 4 / 88 / TD last night and everyone is going gaga over him. What's that a difference of 2.8 fantasy points in PPR? It's all perspective. The younger WR who has chemistry with Stafford MIGHT end up being the guy if Robinson falls short.

Jefferson had to deal with Robert Woods and Odell Beckham for targets. Both those guys are now gone. If he can demand more targets than Allen Robinson, he might end up being the guy you THOUGHT you were getting when you drafted ARob. Food for thought.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I’m with Stuart on this one and he backs up his argument quite well.

I’m a Bears fan, I avoided A Rob on my 13 redraft teams and traded him away in a dynasty this year.

I also drafted R Woods last year OVER Kupp. There was no way I was watching that again.

A Rob believers gonna believe, I guess.

I took him in the 4th, as my 4th WR in one NFC league. The value was too good to pass up, I told myself.

I still like that team, but man - 2.2 points is hard to take at flex in a points league.

 

[LawFitz]

You're holding onto production from TWO-THREE SEASONS ago where he was a high volume receiver. Mind you, he averaged 100 catches during these "fantasy productive" seasons and had little competition for targets. I'm a big stat guy. Do you know how many times an NFL team has had TWO 100 catch / 1,000 yard receivers? It's happened 6 times in league history.

The 1995 Lions, 2000 Broncos, 2005 Cardinals, 2009 Colts, 2014 Broncos, and 2018 Steelers as the only receiving duos in #NFL history with 100 catches AND 1,000 yards each.


His YPC the last three years was 10.8, 12.3, and 11.7. In order for him to "produce" the way you're looking for him to produce, the Rams will need to be the 7th team in NFL history to have a two receivers over 100 catches and 1,000 yards.


Between you and me, I think it's more likely that as this player AGES we see him fall more in line with his OTHER seasons and not the seasons where he caught 100 balls. He's getting old, is not the #1 option, and that's fine. At this point he needs volume to eclipse 1,000. As he gets older, his ability to separate diminishes.

Year	Team	REC	YDS	AVG	LNG	TD	ATT	YDS	AVG
2022	Rams	1	12	12.0	12	0	0	0	-
2021	Bears	38	410	10.8	39	1	0	0	-
2020	Bears	102	1,250	12.3	42	6	1	-1	-1.0
2019	Bears	98	1,147	11.7	49	7	1	2	2.0
2018	Bears	55	754	13.7	43	4	1	9	9.0
2017	Jaguars	1	17	17.0	17	0	0	0	-
2016	Jaguars	73	883	12.1	42	6	0	0	-
2015	Jaguars	80	1,400	17.5	90	14	0	0	-
2014	Jaguars	48	548	11.4	54	2	0	0	-

Pretty sure I said this pages and pages and pages ago in this thread... Credit to Allen Robinson for securing 7 years and ~$100 MM from NFL front offices (along with years of fantasy hype) off of that one magical season in 2015. He's been a middling accumulator ever since, with apologists every year for why that is. Will he breakout from that mold now, as strained-elbow Stafford's #2 target (which BTW, is already up for debate in and of itself)?

People are acting like it's a panic move to react to last night. By itself, it would be. But as a mosaic of all else at play - my paragraph above + what may very well be a very shaky Rams OL and a potentially emerging Superbowl hangover - I wouldn't blame anyone for selling at 60-70 cents on the dollar this week. One more bad week and you won't be able to get anything at all and you will have a roster albatross - the classic can't start, can't trade, can't cut player. I have one of my own emerging right now with George Kittle. I've had many in years past, so I am uber wary of them.

 

[Deamon]

I’m with Stuart on this one

You would drop him for Van Jefferson tomorrow if you had the chance in your fantasy league?

Last season, on opening day Van Jefferson caught 2 passes for 80 yards and a touchdown.

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yet you say confidentially that you'll bet anyone $250 then back out. Oof.

 

[Stuart Ullman]

I’m with Stuart on this one

You would drop him for Van Jefferson tomorrow if you had the chance in your fantasy league?

Last season, on opening day Van Jefferson caught 2 passes for 80 yards and a touchdown.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

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yet you say confidentially that you'll bet anyone $250 then back out. Oof.

I already told you I would do it. ARob's 1 catch for 12 yards on two targets does not scare me. Neither do the 38 catches for 410 yards (10.8 YPC) he had last year. That's fade material all day. I've bet people on the board here before and luckily everyone has paid (I've won every time).

https://moneymachine.vip/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/20220909-220922-1528092347631bb99238cd3.png

@Binky The Doormat thought I was **** for brains for saying Ebron would be a Top 10 TE in 2018 until he had to pay me $50. Luckily, my bankroll has grown since then and I can propose a real man's bet size of $250.

 

[Deamon]

I’m with Stuart on this one

You would drop him for Van Jefferson tomorrow if you had the chance in your fantasy league?

Last season, on opening day Van Jefferson caught 2 passes for 80 yards and a touchdown.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

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yet you say confidentially that you'll bet anyone $250 then back out. Oof.

I already told you I would do it. ARob's 1 catch for 12 yards on two targets does not scare me. Neither do the 38 catches for 410 yards (10.8 YPC) he had last year. That's fade material all day. I've bet people on the board here before and luckily everyone has paid (I've won every time).

https://moneymachine.vip/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/20220909-220922-1528092347631bb99238cd3.png

@Binky The Doormat thought I was **** for brains for saying Ebron would be a Top 10 TE in 2018 until he had to pay me $50. Luckily, my bankroll has grown since then and I can propose a real man's bet size of $250.

Alright you're on. Hopefully you will pay up if you lose.

 

[candian fantasy guy]

I’m with Stuart on this one and he backs up his argument quite well.

I’m a Bears fan, I avoided A Rob on my 13 redraft teams and traded him away in a dynasty this year.

I also drafted R Woods last year OVER Kupp. There was no way I was watching that again.

A Rob believers gonna believe, I guess.

I took him in the 4th, as my 4th WR in one NFC league. The value was too good to pass up, I told myself.

I still like that team, but man - 2.2 points is hard to take at flex in a points league.

It’s rough for sure. He might end up being great, who knows.

 

[Stuart Ullman]

I’m with Stuart on this one

You would drop him for Van Jefferson tomorrow if you had the chance in your fantasy league?

Last season, on opening day Van Jefferson caught 2 passes for 80 yards and a touchdown.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

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yet you say confidentially that you'll bet anyone $250 then back out. Oof.

I already told you I would do it. ARob's 1 catch for 12 yards on two targets does not scare me. Neither do the 38 catches for 410 yards (10.8 YPC) he had last year. That's fade material all day. I've bet people on the board here before and luckily everyone has paid (I've won every time).

https://moneymachine.vip/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/20220909-220922-1528092347631bb99238cd3.png

@Binky The Doormat thought I was **** for brains for saying Ebron would be a Top 10 TE in 2018 until he had to pay me $50. Luckily, my bankroll has grown since then and I can propose a real man's bet size of $250.

Alright you're on. Hopefully you will pay up if you lose.

LOCKED. Good luck, homie, this will certainly add some thrill to this argument. Hopefully Van actually plays next week or else I've spotted you a free game. I'm easy to find, the website that image is hosted is run by me, so you can always come pounding on my door there.

Otherwise, I'll send you a PM with my personal Facebook page so you can hunt me down there and harass my family if I welch on you, lbs.

 

[jabarony]

I’m with Stuart on this one

You would drop him for Van Jefferson tomorrow if you had the chance in your fantasy league?

Last season, on opening day Van Jefferson caught 2 passes for 80 yards and a touchdown.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

yet you say confidentially that you'll bet anyone $250 then back out. Oof.

I already told you I would do it. ARob's 1 catch for 12 yards on two targets does not scare me. Neither do the 38 catches for 410 yards (10.8 YPC) he had last year. That's fade material all day. I've bet people on the board here before and luckily everyone has paid (I've won every time).

https://moneymachine.vip/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/20220909-220922-1528092347631bb99238cd3.png

@Binky The Doormat thought I was **** for brains for saying Ebron would be a Top 10 TE in 2018 until he had to pay me $50. Luckily, my bankroll has grown since then and I can propose a real man's bet size of $250.

I still gotta go with Binky on this one. Ebron blows.

 

[Stuart Ullman]

PM SHUKE

 

[Dr. Octopus]

No wide receiver in the NFL has more contested catches than Robinson since 2018. He’s pulled in 71 contested catches in that span, consistently making tough grabs in tight coverage. It shows how physical he is and how strong his hands are.

It also shows that he can’t get seperation.

 

[[icon]]

To reiterate on his diminishing YPC:

2021: 10.8 YPC
2020: 12.3 YPC
2019: 11.7 YPC


At 10.8 YPC he would need to catch 93 PASSES which would be the 3rd most in his career to reach 1,000 yards.
At 12.3 YPC he would need to catch 81 PASSES which would be the 3rd most in his career to reach 1,000 yards.
At 11.7 YPC he would need to catch 85 PASSES which would be the 3rd most in his career to reach 1,000 yards.



Not saying it's not possible but after going 1/12/0 Week 1. He'll need to catch between 5.25 to 5.75 passes a game in order to reach 1,000 yards by the end of the season and that's giving him the benefit of the 17 game schedule. Back in my day, 1,000 yards in 16 games or less was the barometer.



ODB when playing with the RAMS caught 1,2,5,2,2,5 passes a game as a Ram last year (2.83 catches per game).
Van Jefferson caught 2,1,4,6,1,3,4,3,3,3,3,6,2,2,1,4,2 passes a game as a Ram last year (2.94 catches per game).
Robert Woods caught 3,5,3,4,12,2,6,3,7 passes a game as a Ram last year (5 catches per game).



The ROLE you're looking for Allen Robinson to play doesn't exist in this offense and the PRODUCTION you're chasing he hasn't put up in 2-3 seasons.

This is some pretty sloppy cherry picking.

It's almost like there were other other factors at play that could have impacted his production dip last year.

Cherry picking? I used stats from his last 3 seasons and then compared his stats to receivers last year in the same offense as he is in now with the same Quarterback. I don't think my analysis could have been more specific.

Cherry picking implies I am excluding stats. What stats am I excluding? I included 2 of his 3 1,000 yard seasons in my analysis. You want me to dig further back when he was a Jaguar 5+ years ago on a completely different team PRIOR to him tearing his ACL.



I'm just trying to understand what part of this was cherry picking. Typically that is reserved for when people do the silly, "if you take away his big 50 yard run he only averages 3.5 YPC". Any additional stats you were include besides his 1,400 yard season from 7 YEARS AGO before he tore his ACL make his case look worse.

So to be clear.... you think 2021 is an apples to apples comparison with 2019/20 seasons?

I don't know what this means. L

You seriously don't know what "do you think 2021 is an apples to apples comparison to 2019-20 seasons?

You're kidding, right?

It's a yes/no question.

 

[SoBeDad]

No wide receiver in the NFL has more contested catches than Robinson since 2018. He’s pulled in 71 contested catches in that span, consistently making tough grabs in tight coverage. It shows how physical he is and how strong his hands are.

It also shows that he can’t get seperation.

Like Parker. But Fitzpatrick made him a 1200 yard, 9 TD receiver in 2019.

 

[Ilov80s]

Seems like he might be in the Dwayne Bowe/Braylon Edwards archetype of WR. Big, strong and capable of making very difficult catches with defenders in tight coverage but aren't very adept at creating open space for themselves. In the right circumstances they can deliver massive WR1 fantasy seasons but when they find themselves with QBs who aren't willing to forcefeed them jump balls, they can struggle to produce WR3 numbers.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

I’m with Stuart on this one

You would drop him for Van Jefferson tomorrow if you had the chance in your fantasy league?

Last season, on opening day Van Jefferson caught 2 passes for 80 yards and a touchdown.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

yet you say confidentially that you'll bet anyone $250 then back out. Oof.

I already told you I would do it. ARob's 1 catch for 12 yards on two targets does not scare me. Neither do the 38 catches for 410 yards (10.8 YPC) he had last year. That's fade material all day. I've bet people on the board here before and luckily everyone has paid (I've won every time).

https://moneymachine.vip/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/20220909-220922-1528092347631bb99238cd3.png

@Binky The Doormat thought I was **** for brains for saying Ebron would be a Top 10 TE in 2018 until he had to pay me $50. Luckily, my bankroll has grown since then and I can propose a real man's bet size of $250.

yikes - got any other pontifications you wanna make hambone?

 

[nysfl2]

Seems like he might be in the Dwayne Bowe/Braylon Edwards archetype of WR. Big, strong and capable of making very difficult catches with defenders in tight coverage but aren't very adept at creating open space for themselves. In the right circumstances they can deliver massive WR1 fantasy seasons but when they find themselves with QBs who aren't willing to forcefeed them jump balls, they can struggle to produce WR3 numbers.

Are you claiming that Stafford isn't willing to throw balls to closely covered receivers and trust his receiver to catch it? Did you ever watch him with c. Johnson and golladay?

 

[Stuart Ullman]

I’m with Stuart on this one

You would drop him for Van Jefferson tomorrow if you had the chance in your fantasy league?

Last season, on opening day Van Jefferson caught 2 passes for 80 yards and a touchdown.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

yet you say confidentially that you'll bet anyone $250 then back out. Oof.

I already told you I would do it. ARob's 1 catch for 12 yards on two targets does not scare me. Neither do the 38 catches for 410 yards (10.8 YPC) he had last year. That's fade material all day. I've bet people on the board here before and luckily everyone has paid (I've won every time).

https://moneymachine.vip/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/20220909-220922-1528092347631bb99238cd3.png

@Binky The Doormat thought I was **** for brains for saying Ebron would be a Top 10 TE in 2018 until he had to pay me $50. Luckily, my bankroll has grown since then and I can propose a real man's bet size of $250.

yikes - got any other pontifications you wanna make hambone?

We love you Binky!!

 

[Stuart Ullman]

To reiterate on his diminishing YPC:

2021: 10.8 YPC
2020: 12.3 YPC
2019: 11.7 YPC


At 10.8 YPC he would need to catch 93 PASSES which would be the 3rd most in his career to reach 1,000 yards.
At 12.3 YPC he would need to catch 81 PASSES which would be the 3rd most in his career to reach 1,000 yards.
At 11.7 YPC he would need to catch 85 PASSES which would be the 3rd most in his career to reach 1,000 yards.



Not saying it's not possible but after going 1/12/0 Week 1. He'll need to catch between 5.25 to 5.75 passes a game in order to reach 1,000 yards by the end of the season and that's giving him the benefit of the 17 game schedule. Back in my day, 1,000 yards in 16 games or less was the barometer.



ODB when playing with the RAMS caught 1,2,5,2,2,5 passes a game as a Ram last year (2.83 catches per game).
Van Jefferson caught 2,1,4,6,1,3,4,3,3,3,3,6,2,2,1,4,2 passes a game as a Ram last year (2.94 catches per game).
Robert Woods caught 3,5,3,4,12,2,6,3,7 passes a game as a Ram last year (5 catches per game).



The ROLE you're looking for Allen Robinson to play doesn't exist in this offense and the PRODUCTION you're chasing he hasn't put up in 2-3 seasons.

This is some pretty sloppy cherry picking.

It's almost like there were other other factors at play that could have impacted his production dip last year.

Cherry picking? I used stats from his last 3 seasons and then compared his stats to receivers last year in the same offense as he is in now with the same Quarterback. I don't think my analysis could have been more specific.

Cherry picking implies I am excluding stats. What stats am I excluding? I included 2 of his 3 1,000 yard seasons in my analysis. You want me to dig further back when he was a Jaguar 5+ years ago on a completely different team PRIOR to him tearing his ACL.



I'm just trying to understand what part of this was cherry picking. Typically that is reserved for when people do the silly, "if you take away his big 50 yard run he only averages 3.5 YPC". Any additional stats you were include besides his 1,400 yard season from 7 YEARS AGO before he tore his ACL make his case look worse.

So to be clear.... you think 2021 is an apples to apples comparison with 2019/20 seasons?

I don't know what this means. L

You seriously don't know what "do you think 2021 is an apples to apples comparison to 2019-20 seasons?

You're kidding, right?

It's a yes/no question.

I guess my answer is no. I think he was hurt in 2021 and when he wasn't he really didn't produce. 2019 and 2020 I believe he had Mitch Trubisky throwing him the football as the number one option. Last year he had Fields and eventually got hurt. The situation was different, Matt Nagy was also the Head Coach for his productive years. New HC may never have gelled with him and/or never intended to feature him because they knew they weren't going to sign him longterm.


It's not an apples to oranges comparison because if it was apples to apples, he would be the Rams #1 WR and the best WR on the team like he was in Chicago. He is going to an offense where he won't lead in targets and has a better WR ahead of him who just put up one of the best receiving seasons of all times. The situation is drastically different and the expectations for him are different as now he is playing second fiddle and to my recollection, there is no history of him putting up numbers as the #2 option in an offense. All his "big years" he lead his teams in receptions.


I don't think it's apples to apples. It's definitely a different situation. Had he gone somewhere like BALTIMORE, I think he would have a legitimate chance to be fantasy relevant as the #1 guy. But he plays with a guy named Cooper Kupp who saw 15 targets and caught 13 of them. The Bears didn't have a Cooper Kupp and the Jaguars didn't have a Cooper Kupp. The better player is demanding more targets which is a different situation than he has experienced in years past.



Apples to oranges. Every situation is unique and requires analysis. Final answer.

 

[Ilov80s]

Are you claiming that Stafford isn't willing to throw balls to closely covered receivers and trust his receiver to catch it? Did you ever watch him with c. Johnson and golladay?

I did. I’m a Lions fan. Right now he seems pretty damn locked into a wide open Cooper Kupp. It’s only 1 game though. As they face different defenses there may be more opportunities to go down field to Robinson but Kupp has really cemented himself as the primary read for Stafford.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

To reiterate on his diminishing YPC:

2021: 10.8 YPC
2020: 12.3 YPC
2019: 11.7 YPC


At 10.8 YPC he would need to catch 93 PASSES which would be the 3rd most in his career to reach 1,000 yards.
At 12.3 YPC he would need to catch 81 PASSES which would be the 3rd most in his career to reach 1,000 yards.
At 11.7 YPC he would need to catch 85 PASSES which would be the 3rd most in his career to reach 1,000 yards.



Not saying it's not possible but after going 1/12/0 Week 1. He'll need to catch between 5.25 to 5.75 passes a game in order to reach 1,000 yards by the end of the season and that's giving him the benefit of the 17 game schedule. Back in my day, 1,000 yards in 16 games or less was the barometer.



ODB when playing with the RAMS caught 1,2,5,2,2,5 passes a game as a Ram last year (2.83 catches per game).
Van Jefferson caught 2,1,4,6,1,3,4,3,3,3,3,6,2,2,1,4,2 passes a game as a Ram last year (2.94 catches per game).
Robert Woods caught 3,5,3,4,12,2,6,3,7 passes a game as a Ram last year (5 catches per game).



The ROLE you're looking for Allen Robinson to play doesn't exist in this offense and the PRODUCTION you're chasing he hasn't put up in 2-3 seasons.

This is some pretty sloppy cherry picking.

It's almost like there were other other factors at play that could have impacted his production dip last year.

Cherry picking? I used stats from his last 3 seasons and then compared his stats to receivers last year in the same offense as he is in now with the same Quarterback. I don't think my analysis could have been more specific.

Cherry picking implies I am excluding stats. What stats am I excluding? I included 2 of his 3 1,000 yard seasons in my analysis. You want me to dig further back when he was a Jaguar 5+ years ago on a completely different team PRIOR to him tearing his ACL.



I'm just trying to understand what part of this was cherry picking. Typically that is reserved for when people do the silly, "if you take away his big 50 yard run he only averages 3.5 YPC". Any additional stats you were include besides his 1,400 yard season from 7 YEARS AGO before he tore his ACL make his case look worse.

So to be clear.... you think 2021 is an apples to apples comparison with 2019/20 seasons?

I don't know what this means. L

You seriously don't know what "do you think 2021 is an apples to apples comparison to 2019-20 seasons?

You're kidding, right?

It's a yes/no question.

I guess my answer is no. I think he was hurt in 2021 and when he wasn't he really didn't produce. 2019 and 2020 I believe he had Mitch Trubisky throwing him the football as the number one option. Last year he had Fields and eventually got hurt. The situation was different, Matt Nagy was also the Head Coach for his productive years. New HC may never have gelled with him and/or never intended to feature him because they knew they weren't going to sign him longterm.


It's not an apples to oranges comparison because if it was apples to apples, he would be the Rams #1 WR and the best WR on the team like he was in Chicago. He is going to an offense where he won't lead in targets and has a better WR ahead of him who just put up one of the best receiving seasons of all times. The situation is drastically different and the expectations for him are different as now he is playing second fiddle and to my recollection, there is no history of him putting up numbers as the #2 option in an offense. All his "big years" he lead his teams in receptions.


I don't think it's apples to apples. It's definitely a different situation. Had he gone somewhere like BALTIMORE, I think he would have a legitimate chance to be fantasy relevant as the #1 guy. But he plays with a guy named Cooper Kupp who saw 15 targets and caught 13 of them. The Bears didn't have a Cooper Kupp and the Jaguars didn't have a Cooper Kupp. The better player is demanding more targets which is a different situation than he has experienced in years past.



Apples to oranges. Every situation is unique and requires analysis. Final answer.

tldr:

 

[Manster]

Not worried yet, in general about the Rams......the Bills were clearly sharper and looked in mid season form. Mcvay will rally the troops after an off game.

As for Arob.......pretty piss poor showing.....the garbage time TD chance to end was pathetic! He let some scrub DB have position and didn't fight for the ball. I think that's what Stafford was squwakin to the coach about right after.....you gotta question the guys competitiveness.......I guarantee Kupp comes down with that pass.

I now feel pretty good that I got zero shares of ARob, even though I wanted some......I got Kupp in 3 of 4 leagues....dude is just a beast!

Stafford sucked last night and shouldn't have squaked about anyone else. After your comment, I went back and looked at the last play. The DB had good position and Stafford didn't really give him a chance to go get it. Not Robinson's fault.

He had two targets all night while stone hands Higbee got 11 and WR nobody got 6. I know they haven't been able to work together much due to Staffords injury and that probably played into last nights performance.

Agree that staff sucked and credit Buffs pass rush.....that was the key. Stafford was battered and bloody.

I'm not saying it was a great pass, but ARob maybe should've fought for better position, and fought for the ball ......I dunno...... what I saw from ARob last night seemed awfully familiar to last season. And maybe he turns it on......after last night I'm skeptical

 

[Mongidig]

I’m with Stuart on this one and he backs up his argument quite well.

I’m a Bears fan, I avoided A Rob on my 13 redraft teams and traded him away in a dynasty this year.

I also drafted R Woods last year OVER Kupp. There was no way I was watching that again.

A Rob believers gonna believe, I guess.

I took him in the 4th, as my 4th WR in one NFC league. The value was too good to pass up, I told myself.

I still like that team, but man - 2.2 points is hard to take at flex in a points league.

Are you aware you can swap out Robinson for another player before 1Pm eastern Sunday? The Thursday game is a free look for everyone in the NFC because they continue to hold drafts over the weekend.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Now this is just mean

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I’m with Stuart on this one and he backs up his argument quite well.

I’m a Bears fan, I avoided A Rob on my 13 redraft teams and traded him away in a dynasty this year.

I also drafted R Woods last year OVER Kupp. There was no way I was watching that again.

A Rob believers gonna believe, I guess.

I took him in the 4th, as my 4th WR in one NFC league. The value was too good to pass up, I told myself.

I still like that team, but man - 2.2 points is hard to take at flex in a points league.

Are you aware you can swap out Robinson for another player before 1Pm eastern Sunday? The Thursday game is a free look for everyone in the NFC because they continue to hold drafts over the weekend.

I actually just noticed that and gladly did so about 10 mins ago!

It was such a relief!

 

[Chaka]

Anywho, I'll let you guys enjoy your thread. I had a similar argument a few weeks ago in the Cam Akers thread where everybody was telling me despite the guy having a torn achilles which no RB has ever come back from, he would be productive and a better pick than Henderson.

RB Cam Akers, MIN

Rams RB Cam Akers disappointed in Super Bowl run: 'There wasn't really a lot of celebrating for me'

forums.footballguys.com

They chose to argue my facts with their feelings and Week 1 they were left holding the bag of ****. There's thousands of people who read these threads, there's bound to be disagreements and people are polar opposites of the spectrum. No matter how compelling either of our cases may be, neither of us will change our minds and that's totally fine.



LET'S LET THE PLAY ON THE FIELD DETERMINE WHO WAS RIGHT AND WRONG.

Doing victory laps in week one belongs in the Bold Predictions thread.

 

[Chaka]

Swapping out a player between Friday and Sunday feels pretty bush league IMO. If you do I hope ARob goes off for 1,500 & 14 the rest of the year.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Seems like he might be in the Dwayne Bowe/Braylon Edwards archetype of WR. Big, strong and capable of making very difficult catches with defenders in tight coverage but aren't very adept at creating open space for themselves. In the right circumstances they can deliver massive WR1 fantasy seasons but when they find themselves with QBs who aren't willing to forcefeed them jump balls, they can struggle to produce WR3 numbers.

Bad news for ARob, because that doesn’t seem to be Stafford’s game in McVay’s offense.

Stafford loves Kupp because he’s always getting between levels of the secondary. Stafford lobs a nice dart over to him & it’s pitch & catch.

Even the hardest catch Kupp made, he had a yard or more of separation running across the back of the end zone. The hard part was getting his feet down.

Maybe Stafford will start forcing it into coverage, or maybe they’ll start running crossing patterns with ARob like the Bears did for a while with success.

If he’s going to be productive, something’s gotta give.

 

[Chaka]

I'm going say it: Stafford has (had) amazing arm talent but could never really read a defense. He thinks he can and thinks the defense always says "THE SAME GUY IS OPEN EVERY SINGLE PLAY!!!"

Facts, have some.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Arob may or may not have a great fantasy season but lack of production last night wasn't because he wasn't getting open

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Arob may or may not have a great fantasy season but lack of production last night wasn't because he wasn't getting open

Stafford doesn’t like throwing into zone. He said it himself.

Which is weird, because he certainly has no aversion to throwing interceptions.

 

[[icon]]

Arob may or may not have a great fantasy season but lack of production last night wasn't because he wasn't getting open

Correct.

ARob was actually getting ~double the average separation as Kupp last night (3.0 v 1.7). Last night wasn't an ARob issue.

His ADOT will likely be on the higher side career wise. That high separation may lead to larger YAC numbers.

And with lots of question marks in the backfield... we could be in a position where they go even more pass heavy at some point.... that's hypothetical though.

Then there's the Tuddys... a COUPLE more of those to go around in LA. Last year he had 1.

 

[Dizzy]

Arob may or may not have a great fantasy season but lack of production last night wasn't because he wasn't getting open

Wow, that pretty much says it all. One would hope that Stafford and coaches get it turned around after seeing the game film.

 

[TVT 0 N S T A]

It's crazy the amount of dissension on A. Rob and out right hate from @Stuart Ullman. The dude was a stud with Blake Bortles and Mitch Trubisky throwing him balls. Reasonable to assume this game ends up being an outlier. However, I avoided him in redraft because I think Stafford loves Kupp and OBJ, while productive, never got a bunch of targets. I avoided Robinson, not necessarily due to his talent, but the thought that Stafford (injured arm) isn't going to be able to target him enough to pay off on that 4th round ADP, but to dismiss what Robinson has done in his career with some of the most bottom rung passers is possibly the most ridiculous hot take I've seen on this board.

 

[Stuart Ullman]

How many Pro Bowls this guy been to?!?!

 

[Deamon]

It's crazy the amount of dissension on A. Rob and out right hate from @Stuart Ullman.

It's madness.
Well, we've officially made our $250 bet on more Arob or Van Jefferson yards at the end of the year, so we'll see how that goes I guess.

 

[BobbyLayne]

every Allen Robinson route Week 1

guy who does a Giants podcast put this together; a few caveats

Besides Giants content, I'm a big fantasy football nerd

Allen Robinson had a 96% routes run share & a 97% snap share

Here are all of his routes that are not screens or just quick curls vs. press

Also left out the garbage time fade at the end of the game (time restrictions)

 

[rockaction]

I knew Eminence couldn't keep from coming back and starting to offer wagers and **** like that on the board. He's playing nice now, but wait until he starts going crazy and threatening people.

How do you guys not catch his aliases and schtick every time?

 

[Deamon]

I knew Eminence couldn't keep from coming back and starting to offer wagers and **** like that on the board. He's playing nice now, but wait until he starts going crazy and threatening people.

How do you guys not catch his aliases and schtick every time?

Well he sent me his personal info over DM, so so hopefully that checks out and that it isn't some new Eminence profile.

 

[FairWarning]

Seems like he might be in the Dwayne Bowe/Braylon Edwards archetype of WR. Big, strong and capable of making very difficult catches with defenders in tight coverage but aren't very adept at creating open space for themselves. In the right circumstances they can deliver massive WR1 fantasy seasons but when they find themselves with QBs who aren't willing to forcefeed them jump balls, they can struggle to produce WR3 numbers.

Are you claiming that Stafford isn't willing to throw balls to closely covered receivers and trust his receiver to catch it? Did you ever watch him with c. Johnson and golladay?

If Stafford has a elbow problem, he may not try to force it as much to a new receiver.

 

[farfromforgotten]

I wouldn't freakout just yet. Stafford has had no time to throw all night.

Buffalo might be the best defense in the league.

What changed between this post and all of the freaking out that’s followed?

 

[GroveDiesel]

Arob may or may not have a great fantasy season but lack of production last night wasn't because he wasn't getting open

Correct.

ARob was actually getting ~double the average separation as Kupp last night (3.0 v 1.7). Last night wasn't an ARob issue.

His ADOT will likely be on the higher side career wise. That high separation may lead to larger YAC numbers.

And with lots of question marks in the backfield... we could be in a position where they go even more pass heavy at some point.... that's hypothetical though.

Then there's the Tuddys... a COUPLE more of those to go around in LA. Last year he had 1.

Just because a guy may have “separation” doesn’t mean he’s open. Buffalo is playing zone and in a lot of those clips is playing bracket coverage on Robinson. In most of those, either the front side CB is between Stafford and ARob making a throw impossible, or the safety over top has an angle where if the ball is thrown the safety has an angle to break on it and break it up/pick it off. Multiple times Stafford is even rolling the other way which would make a throw impossible for anyone not named Allen/Rodgers/Mahomes. That’s not even bringing up where the Bills up front are getting pressure and how they are affecting throwing windows.

 

[candian fantasy guy]

It's crazy the amount of dissension on A. Rob and out right hate from @Stuart Ullman. The dude was a stud with Blake Bortles and Mitch Trubisky throwing him balls. Reasonable to assume this game ends up being an outlier. However, I avoided him in redraft because I think Stafford loves Kupp and OBJ, while productive, never got a bunch of targets. I avoided Robinson, not necessarily due to his talent, but the thought that Stafford (injured arm) isn't going to be able to target him enough to pay off on that 4th round ADP, but to dismiss what Robinson has done in his career with some of the most bottom rung passers is possibly the most ridiculous hot take I've seen on this board.

Dude was a stud is a slight exaggeration. He’s had some good years. Even his 1 good season in Chicago, there were many games where he was invisible and then caught 3/4 balls in absolute garbage time to save the Fantasy day.

A Rob might turn out to be great this year, who knows. But the part where he was this beastly player before and will continue that path in LA, might not be exactly true.