-jb-
Footballguy
Lol so I watched that clip. First, I’m going to follow that guy because it was still interesting……but he basically said in a long winded way that Goff missed a wide open ARSB. Derp.
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WR Amon-Ra St. Brown, DET (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter IHEARTFF
- Start date
KingPrawn
Footballguy
Wasn't Goff the QB last year? Or the year before? ARSB seemed to do just fine then
Statorama
gangster
If anyone's selling, I'm buying
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Yep. I'm not bashing Amon at all here. I'm not really bashing Goff. I'm just saying he needs to take more shots down the field with his great weapon. Could be more coaching the player really. Amon has the talent to lead the league in receiving. Heck, he still could. Maybe I'm just hurt he missed him on that play where he clearly beat the entire defense.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
yeah, he's OK but let's be realistic here on that particular play....
Mahomes missed one just like this in the same game, too - instead threw it over his receiver’s head on the other side of the field. Every QB has a moment like this.
Literally. Every. Game. There’s a free runner (LCB coming hard) - the heave to ARSB is not the hot read choice here.
The Stafford-to-Kupp was a once in a lifetime. Hero ball. Trust me, I watched hero ball for 12 years. Fun when it works.
***************
I'm glad we have Goff. This team will succeed bc of complimentary football, not bc their QB is Superman.
That's OK, those guys are super rare, the ultimate difference maker types. Mahomes was pressured 17 times last night, even in the grasp, grabbing his foot, pulling with two hands, still couldn't get him to go down. Mahomes is awesome.
edit: this
Goff is fine for what we are trying to do. They can win with him. And he and ARSB have a very special synchronicity going on, Goff loves Sun God and Amon-Ra knows this thing is rare. It's not Randy Moss dominating but it works for Detroit. St Brown ain't no DHop or Chase or Metcalf. He's his own man and I'm glad he's on Detroit.
Huge year for St coming.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
As an ARSB shareholder in dynasty & redraft I have to say, it bugs me when the Lions get away from what was working.
Seemed like they forgot he was there for over a quarter. How many 2nd half targets did he have, 2?
Seemed like they forgot he was there for over a quarter. How many 2nd half targets did he have, 2?
-jb-
Footballguy
Couldn't agree more on every point. I have two shares of ARSB across four redrafts. He's my WR3 in one of them (start 3, paired with JJ and AJB, 10 team), and WR2 in the other (start 2, paired with Davante, 12 team).
Giddyup.
-jb-
Footballguy
BearsFan4Life
Footballguy
Was that a result of Detroit or a result of KC changing coverages to take him away?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
No idea, but if that’s the case shame on DET for not countering with their own play calling adjustments.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Detroit seemed to completely change strategy. The goal was grind down the defense and then just run run run in the 2nd half IMO.
RenegadeRoy
Footballguy
Lead the team in targets. That miss is going to be tape that'll hopefully haunt Goff. Those big plays are coming.
You can probably count on one hand the number of times Goff aired the ball out his first two seasons in Detroit. That is like Goff's last resort on any given play. Probably part of the reason Goff is less than two games away from setting the recorded for most consecutive passes without an INT.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Lol..and the only guy within 5 yards was a linebacker who was pulling off expecting someone to help him deep. ARSB could have walked into the end zone. Cost me $375 on missing my parlay. (ARSB 100 yards and TD).
FarFromHome
Footballguy
That was the play. That was my last thought as I dozed off to sleep for the evening....
I don't know. That ref downfield might have gotten in the way.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yeah, you could actually see it on the live play how open he was. Even Stevie Wonder was yelling at the TV screen for Goff to throw it to St. Brown
Kind of agree here. Will be interesting to see if they give him an extension.
I don't think missing ARSB there was that big of a deal - his primary receiver on a key 3rd down was open and he focused on that and delivered a nice ball to pick it up. I'd rather have him doing that then noticing that ARSB beat his man and chucking it, and missing that a safety had rotated over and was ready to pick it off.
This is not even close to remotely true. There are a dozen QBs who have won the SB which Goff is better than. A good game manager who doesn't make mistakes can take a good team to the promiseland.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
I agree. I think the reason this narrative comes up is because the gap between the Mahomes and Burrows of the world to the Goffs is huge. I think he is good enough to win a super bowl as long as the roster is great. The Mahomes and Burrows can win super bowls with just decent rosters. In the end I dont really care as long as Amon gets 180 targets. I'm selfish like that.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
This is curious thinking to me.
Let's take out his rookie year which was The Last Ballad of Jeff Fisher.
You're talking about a QB with a career:
151:63 TD/INT ratio
A 64.8% Completion Rate
A 7.51 YPA
A 94.6 QB rating
And that was with a 2 year swale where McVay soured on him.
...just seems like Goff gets raked over the coals when in actuality, the guy is pretty good.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
As did Mahomes - threw it away on the opposite boundary. When you’ve got a hot route (free running blitzer bearing down on you) either the ball comes out or you take evasive action. Scanning, resetting, step into & hitting the uncovered man - not an option, this ain’t Madden.
We can pull any NFL game and find a man running free that a QB who could levitate 15 feet would find for an easy TD. Disruption doesn’t allow that IRL.
THE STAFFORD TO KUPP V SLOT CORNER BLITZ
Not even close to being Goff not seeing ARSB - Stafford doesn’t adjust off the short route, that throw takes them to OT. The only play - the only place Matthew ever looked - was the
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FWIW, Goff is now 44 passes away from setting the NFL record for most consecutive passes without throwing an interception. He may miss some big plays, but that's pretty damn good.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Don’t forget Super Bowl champ Trent Dilfer.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I feel like people criticizing Goff for the wide open ARSB play missed this video and should watch it.
Please list the dozen QBs who have won a super bowl that Goff is better than. Maybe 6.
McMahon
Dilfer
Foles
Hostetler
Brad Johnson (Although he was very good that year)
Flacco
Game has changed and Goff obviously has better passing stats than a lot of the early super bowl winners but he isn't a better QB than guys like Griese and Plunkett were.
I did watch it and he correctly pointed out that one of Goffs issues is he isn't very creative.
It's only one play but man, that was right in front of him. Not like St. Brown was on the opposite side of the field.
But still, you can't have complete tunnel vision as a QB. If you see a DE trailing your WR by 5 yards and no help over the top, you have to take it. It was almost in the exact direction of his primary option.
I listed a dozen above. Plunkett had a 72-72 record as a starter, had far more INTs than TDs, and barely completed half his passes. Even accounting for the different eras, Goff is far better than Plunkett.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
It’s true, but Goff is a lunchbox QB. He makes his reads, goes through his progressions.
It’s why he wins, and unfortunately it’s why he doesn’t see things like ARSB running down the field wide open.
He also doesn’t throw stupid picks by taking risks others might.
You get the good with the bad with Goff, but knowing that he was going through his reads makes that play a lot more forgivable. He deserves to be called out for it, sure. But he doesn’t deserve to get lambasted like he is in this topic.
Bozeman Bruiser
Footballguy
I was certainly getting greedy when I saw ARSB had around 15 points at half time. He finished with his standard ~6/70/1 line that he hit for around 10 straight games to finish 2021 and start 2022 before his ankle injury. He will have the occasional JJ/Chase type game but his bread and butter is consistency, and if he stays healthy for 16-17 games that translates to a reliable high end WR1.
Given the situation, week 1 when everyone has a little rust, on the road in one of the loudest stadiums, against the reigning champs I am pretty happy with the results. I also am still counting on the Lions following through on their preseason statement that he will be more involved downfield this season.
Anyone who watched Plunkett with the Raiders knows he is much better than Goff has been so far in his career. Goff went to a good Rams team and the Rams basically "threw him in" on the Stafford deal. They wanted to get rid of him that bad. Plunkett went to a really bad team and was beat up really bad early in his career in an era where QBs were not protected.
Your list is really bad. Goff better than Eli, Wilson, Simms, Stafford and Plunkett? No way. Rypien was one of the top QBs in the league for a couple years. Something Goff hasn't attained yet.
zoonation
Footballguy
Stafford was way better than Goff. Eli too. Wilson in his prime? Way better. Can he pull off a Foles for a playoff run? Maybe. Doubt it though. The other guys on your list had all world defenses, which Detroit is not.
I watched Stafford for years. Stafford while capable a playing extraordinary late in the game, also would rarely play a complete game. He would make lots of mistakes. Goff is much more consistent and methodical and rarely turns the ball over. Detroit's offense is better with Goff than with Stafford.
Deamon
Footballguy
careful now...
FairWarning
Footballguy
very true. Also Detroit had worse teams, and Stafford forced more plays out of necessity. Goff is perfect for this team at this time.
rockaction
Footballguy
Hostetler went on to start for the Raiders and had a bunch of high quality years, including (I think) apperances in the AFC Championship Game and other playoff games with them. He was a darn fine quarterback.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
What downfield weapons? Lions don’t have any which is exactly why Amon Ra is going to feast.
TampaMike19
Footballguy
I’m not overly worried. I’m saying that I’m getting what I paid for probably in redraft. Was hoping for number one overall wr outcome but he will be a nice ppr wr1 for sure. Still possible range of outcomes but feels diminished after one week.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I was impressed with the Chiefs D. Spags has got some dudes. Usually takes KC half a season to get that unit squared away. Youngest defense in 2022 was a great class, they added Felix Anudike-Uzomah, and oh Chris Jones & Charles Omenihu will be available the last 2/3rds of the season. Scary good.
Week 1 was atypical of what Ben Johnson does. None of the offensive starters played a single snap in preseason, honestly that was a B- in execution and C in creativity (if the bell curve is other Detroit game plans.) They hung 30 or more 8x last year.
For Week 1, in that environment, with KCC missing the best DT in the league, the goal was for their elite OL to wear down the DL. We’ll look back at this week as an aberration.
That said, I don’t think St is likely to be overall WR1. 170 targets 125-1400-8 s/b top 5.
That’s the thing about all the QBs on the “maybe worse than Goff list”. They might not have had great careers BUT they were pretty damn good the year their team won. Except for Dilfer and the Ravens had one of the best defenses of all time and an excellent running game.
rockaction
Footballguy
This is true.
That said, I wasn't trying to wander into the "better than Goff" debate, but was rather just providing some context about Hoss, who really was at least a league-average quarterback once he was able to get out of the New York shadow that Phil Simms and Parcells cast. He had a span of a good four years once he was starting for the Raiders.He wasn't great but made the Pro Bowl one year, back when that still meant something. Actually, it doesn't look great by today's standards, but back in '93 and '94 he put up really good ANY/A+ (Average Net Yards per Attempt) years.
