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WR Courtland Sutton, DEN (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Sutton feels really underrated to me right now and I hope it stays that way when rookie drafts start happening. To me he’s the only WR in this class with a legit shot at being a #1 WR on a team, and the type of elite talent that people go crazy about. Some of the players being taken ahead of him in rookie drafts just don’t have anywhere near his upside.
DJ Moore is a nice prospect but the recency bias from the combine for him is silly to me. I know many liked him a lot before the combine but it seems like suddenly he’s the consensus #1 rookie WR in dynasty circles. Between that, and the focus on the RB prospects at the top of rookie drafts, I feel like Sutton is being forgotten about. If you can get him in drafts outside the top 5, that feels like a steal. The idea of guys like Jones, Penny, and even Michel and Ridley going ahead of him is kind of insane to me.
DJ Moore is a nice prospect but the recency bias from the combine for him is silly to me. I know many liked him a lot before the combine but it seems like suddenly he’s the consensus #1 rookie WR in dynasty circles. Between that, and the focus on the RB prospects at the top of rookie drafts, I feel like Sutton is being forgotten about. If you can get him in drafts outside the top 5, that feels like a steal. The idea of guys like Jones, Penny, and even Michel and Ridley going ahead of him is kind of insane to me.
Gandalf
Footballguy
DJ Moore was like half the offense for Maryland last season. He’s really good and has been for a while before the combine for those who knew of him.
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Yeah I think I acknowledged that in my post - that Moore had some real supporters pre-combine. But he’s basically gone to consensus #1 WR (admittedly in a relatively weak class) as a result of some great testing. I like Moore, I just don’t think he has the upside that Sutton does, especially early on in the NFL.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Not sure what it is but when i watch Sutton he just seems so blah. Nothing exciting. Kind of a low rent Alshon Jeffrey.
His combine numbers were great but he doesn't look explosive on the field.
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King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Sutton reminds me of a less polished Laquan Treadwell.
Gandalf
Footballguy
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I felt the same way about Treadwell and Sutton when watching tape....wasn’t sure either would be impact players at the next level. Nothing popped out as an elite characteristic however I feel like Treadwell was a much better route runner at this stage. I am not a scout though so wth do I know.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Musin Muhammad is the comp I like. Less explosive Brandon Marshall. Treadwell is a lazy comp imo, recent big guy that hasn’t put it together. He won’t be julio jones, but maybe Keyshawn Johnson.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Not lazy....maybe less sophisticated. My main point was when watching both of them I left wondering if their size was their biggest attribute. Nothing else seemed to pop off the screen for me. Less explosive Brandon Marshall?...the explosiveness is what defines Marshall’s game. I didn’t see anything that reminded me of Marshall on tape outside of size. To each their own...hopefully one of these WRs steps up in what appears to be a pretty weak class.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Marshall was very quick in and out of cuts and start/stop and used his body to shield defenders. I think Sutton does the same thing but isn’t as agile- but he works back to the ball well and has an attitude. He wants that ball, and he’s going to get it. I think he’s like Marshall in that way, and also in the sense that he moves the chains, and maybe doesn’t make his living downfield. Treadwell had some warts to his game but it was somewhat overlooked because he was so young (and the book isn’t written on him), and he had a better qb throwing to him. Muhammad had a few nice years with (off the top of my head) 90ish rec and 10 tds. Maybe Marques colston is another comparison.
Another thing I like that you can’t really quantify is how he bails his qb out. Watching his film there are some times where he’s adjusting to a poorly thrown ball or where it’s just up for grabs and he gets it. I know these arguements are kind of like saying “he plays with some zazz!” which doesn’t mean a lot, but that’s kept him at the top of my wr list. I think at worst you get a Jordan Mathews guy. As with so many rookies this year, landing spot will move my list around.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
I’m also not really in the market for a wr, but I have some late 1sts that is pull the trigger on if he’s there. Maybe as early as 6 but let’s see where everyone lands before we try that valuation.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Dallas first round pick
Zyphros
Footballguy
I was just looking over my notes from Mike Williams, and almost every note from Sutton vs. Williams was pretty close to the same. Not a lot of explosiveness but has some quickness. Likes to high ball a lot but doesn't fully extend for those, blocks out defenders well and can be quick twitch. Doesn't sink hips very much and sometimes not always involved in his routes when doesn't expect the ball. Lots of shallow slants, and crossing routes, some post routes, that's about it. Most of that was the same for Sutton.
The problem is last year I had an unsual comp for Mike Williams and I think the same comp applies for Sutton except he's a better athlete than Mike Williams and a similar athlete to Sutton. That guy is Jaelen Strong.
Currently I have Sutton as my #4 WR and #17 overall. I have Gallup, ESB, and Kirk ahead of him. The caveat is I'm doing my rankings a bit differently than years past so I'm not sure if Sutton is a product of that, or if he just isn't that good in my eyes. I'm pumping a few of "my guys" up in rankings based on floor and ceiling combo and some other things. I think Sutton is all ceiling with no floor, that's why he's #4 on my list.
The problem is last year I had an unsual comp for Mike Williams and I think the same comp applies for Sutton except he's a better athlete than Mike Williams and a similar athlete to Sutton. That guy is Jaelen Strong.
Currently I have Sutton as my #4 WR and #17 overall. I have Gallup, ESB, and Kirk ahead of him. The caveat is I'm doing my rankings a bit differently than years past so I'm not sure if Sutton is a product of that, or if he just isn't that good in my eyes. I'm pumping a few of "my guys" up in rankings based on floor and ceiling combo and some other things. I think Sutton is all ceiling with no floor, that's why he's #4 on my list.
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
Zyphros
Footballguy
Overall or just WR's? I'll answer both anyways.
Barkley, Guice, Chubb, Michel, Rojo, Penny, Goedert. That's my non QB premium rankings. I play mostly 2QB leagues and the top3 QB's are right after Rojo in my rankings.
Just WR's
Gallup, ESB, Kirk, Sutton, Ridley, Washington, DJ Moore
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Zierlein had similar thoughts on Laquon Treadwell, whom he described as a "catch-winner" and one who "truly shines with ball-tracking skills," but lacked "vertical speed to scare cornerbacks" and "struggled to free himself from press coverage."
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/laquon-treadwell?id=2555214
Longtucky Lemmings
Footballguy
It's a fair point.
For me there are some differences, at least from an athletic testing perspective.
Most of Treadwell's athletic numbers come from his pro-day so I take them with a bit of a grain of salt. Having said that, he ran the 40 in roughly 4.63 and had a 7.05 3-cone time. By comparison, Sutton ran a 4.54 forty and had a really impressive 6.57 3-cone...AT THE COMBINE.
I'll admit to having watched limited tape on Sutton so I don't really have a strong opinion one way or another on the guy. I'll be watching what round he is selected in and by who - that will tell me how much research I'll need to do on him before my rookie drafts. My point is the athletic red flags with Treadwell were fairly clear whereas I see some real athletic quality to Sutton, especially for his size.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Only way I take a chance on Sutton would be early to mid 2nd round in dynasty rookie drafts. Needless to say I won't be owning Sutton.
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
Treadwell was drafted 23rd overall, which is likely to be higher than Sutton will go. Draft slot is not entirely reliable.
Longtucky Lemmings
Footballguy
Agreed. I didn’t mean to suggest his draft slot will directly impact how highly I rate him - I meant to suggest his draft slot combined with who drafts him will impact how much time I spend watching his tape before my rookie drafts
3-cone was particularly bad, but Treadwell was also worse than Sutton at his pro day on the short shuttle and vertical as well. In comparison, Dez ran a 4.52 vs Sutton's 4.54 and was an inch shorter than Sutton. Dez measured with longer arms, and was better in the vertical and broad jump, but Sutton was better in the 3 cone and short shuttle. As far as athletics are considered, I agree there is no comparison to Treadwell in the slightest.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Maybe you should just call him Courtland Treadwell since you are so enamored with getting everything else wrong about him.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
cloppbeast
Footballguy
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
This seems like an odd take to me. While I agree that Sutton is the prospect most like Dez, Dez was not a good fit with Prescott so why would they be looking to get a similar style player?
Dak isn't a "throw him open" QB, nor is he a risk taker. Seems like Dallas would be more interested in going for a receiver that wins with separation, as that seems like a better fit with Dak.
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Jello_Biafra
Footballguy
I would be shocked if this guy isn't the first WR taken. People watch too much "tape".
JohnnyU
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Iirc two seasons ago when dez was out beasley seemed to feast from a ppr perspective. Could be value
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BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
If they are watching tape they surely won’t see much so I’m gonna out on a limb and maybe they are hashing up some old hype.
Tex
pantherclub
Footballguy
Is there one thing that he does really really well? It seems to be he is just okay across the board, nothing really jumps off the page with him maybe except his heightJello_Biafra said:
Snorkelson
Footballguy
