WR DeVonta Smith, PHI (1 Viewer)

[SayWhat?]

Would you trade Devonta + pick 3 for DK Metcalf ?

I wouldn’t trade DeVonta for Metcalf and I own neither. So not me.

 

[menobrown]

Would you trade Devonta + pick 3 for DK Metcalf ?

How do you know it's pick 3?

 

[menobrown]

He's a really talented WR3, has been and will remain so over course of a season until/unless someone gets hurt and opens up more targets for him. It is what it is.

Also given his size, it might actually be Smith who gets hurt.

I've watched a lot of Eagles games - seems like once or twice a game dude gets up slowly/gingerly after a hit. 6' 170 isn't exactly stout. Hard to predict injuries, but it's a less than zero chance that one of these times he doesn't bounce right back up.

AJB is actually the one I’d worry about. He’s been healthy as an Eagle but health was kinda dicey as a Titan. He fights for yards, plays much more physical…those are the things that lead to injuries.

It's truly not close between the injury history of AJB and Goedert vs Devonta.....guess they just get up faster.

Yep. As for DeVonta, I’m capitulating on him in dynasty and admittedly did not connect his stat spike to correlation with Minshew. Wish I had seen your posts on that sooner, would not have taken him at 3.08 in one of my startups if I had.

He’s easily good enough to be an alpha that you can funnel an offense through in my book, if only he didn’t have another one lined up next to him.

That said, it doesn’t suck to have him, he will have his big weeks but unfortunately slumps as well in this current situation.

I believe I mentioned Devonta's spike with Minshew to you in a private convo but it was right after you had taken him so to late.

I still don't think 3.8 is bad for him. I have him on 1/3rd of my dynasty teams and have never shopped him. He's solid enough now so not like he's some kind of roster drain and I really like the guy and am willing to hang on premise teams we don't see teams any longer paying top dollar to two WR's and a QB when that QB's large cap hit takes place. So the Chargers don't count. And for sure we don't see teams pay top dollar to two WR's, a TE and a QB. So eventually something has to to give here. Won't likely be next season though, small chance they can keep the band together for 2025 but I dont' think they will be able and no chance in 2026.

So for me I'm planning on this season and next of this kind of usage when everyone is healthy. He's a great target IMO for fantasy owners who like to play the long game and invest in someone I think will eventually be an elite fantasy performer, but it's going to take some time unless again injuries open things up. if he was a roster drain this would be an issue, but that's not the case.

 

[Sir Psycho]

Would you trade Devonta + pick 3 for DK Metcalf ?

How do you know it's pick 3?

Sorry...Devonta + my third round pick...non ppr league

 

[menobrown]

Would you trade Devonta + pick 3 for DK Metcalf ?

How do you know it's pick 3?

Sorry...Devonta + my third round pick...non ppr league

I would.

 

[Drake Hater]

Would you trade Devonta + pick 3 for DK Metcalf ?

How do you know it's pick 3?

Sorry...Devonta + my third round pick...non ppr league

I don't play Dynasty but I like Smith a lot more in standard scoring leagues. I've got him rostered in a ppr redraft and that's where his limitations can bite you.

 

[menobrown]

Would you trade Devonta + pick 3 for DK Metcalf ?

How do you know it's pick 3?

Sorry...Devonta + my third round pick...non ppr league

I don't play Dynasty but I like Smith a lot more in standard scoring leagues. I've got him rostered in a ppr redraft and that's where his limitations can bite you.

And I would point out I don't play non-PPR so might not be looking at this in the proper context.

 

[GibbsFreeEnergy]

A decent throwing Qb could throw Davonta open all day to the tune of 200 and 3. Unfortunately hurts only throws when there’s 5 yards of separation

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Would you trade Devonta + pick 3 for DK Metcalf ?

How do you know it's pick 3?

Sorry...Devonta + my third round pick...non ppr league

In a heartbeat.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Would you trade Devonta + pick 3 for DK Metcalf ?

How do you know it's pick 3?

Sorry...Devonta + my third round pick...non ppr league

I don't play Dynasty but I like Smith a lot more in standard scoring leagues. I've got him rostered in a ppr redraft and that's where his limitations can bite you.

I like DKM more in non-PPR. He’s a massive RZ target.

 

[Ilov80s]

See I told you guys there was a lot to talk about

 

[babydemon90]

A decent throwing Qb could throw Davonta open all day to the tune of 200 and 3. Unfortunately hurts only throws when there’s 5 yards of separation

That isnt remotely true, but it's a cute narrative. Devonta's lack of production some games is due to being the #2 WR on the team, on a team with a strong run game, that rarely finds itself down multiple scores and needing to throw a ton to catch up.

 

[Drake Hater]

I like DKM more in non-PPR. He’s a massive RZ target.

Makes sense.

Just for clarity I was commenting on Smith's overall FF value as seemingly better with standard scoring than ppr. I don't play standard leagues anymore so no advice on how DK & Smith directly compare there for that trade.

 

[Biabreakable]

the notion his size makes him more prone seems like a fallacy as he's been literally as durable as it gets.

I’m just saying what I’ve seen. He seems to get dinged up.

As time goes on, those hits can add up.

I don’t think it’s a fallacy at all - I didn’t say he’s absolutely going to get hurt. It’s just something I’m concerned about.

We have a pretty large sample size from NFL players, but yes, you’re correct that so far he’s been able to stay healthy.

I would like to try to understand this.

As far as hits adding up, the more often the player gets hit, the more are being added.

Is this not also true for heavier players?

Because of physics a hit on a lighter player will drive them back more than a heavier player, however the kinetic energy of the hit is the same either way. In fact the more resistance vs the hit causes the combined force to be greater than the combined force vs less resistance.

Is it the 2nd impact with the ground that is the concern here?

Less weight/resistance leads to a greater impact with the ground than more weight/resistance I think. Its just that these impacts are separated more instead of more from the initial impact vs greater weight/resistance I think, but the overal impact is still equal.

What do you mean by a large sample size of NFL players?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

the notion his size makes him more prone seems like a fallacy as he's been literally as durable as it gets.

I’m just saying what I’ve seen. He seems to get dinged up.

As time goes on, those hits can add up.

I don’t think it’s a fallacy at all - I didn’t say he’s absolutely going to get hurt. It’s just something I’m concerned about.

We have a pretty large sample size from NFL players, but yes, you’re correct that so far he’s been able to stay healthy.

I would like to try to understand this.

As far as hits adding up, the more often the player gets hit, the more are being added.

Is this not also true for heavier players?

Because of physics a hit on a lighter player will drive them back more than a heavier player, however the kinetic energy of the hit is the same either way. In fact the more resistance vs the hit causes the combined force to be greater than the combined force vs less resistance.

Is it the 2nd impact with the ground that is the concern here?

Less weight/resistance leads to a greater impact with the ground than more weight/resistance I think. Its just that these impacts are separated more instead of more from the initial impact vs greater weight/resistance I think, but the overal impact is still equal.

What do you mean by a large sample size of NFL players?

It’s an expression.

The point is that bigger/thicker players are better suited to entire NFL hits.

Smaller players are not as durable, generally speaking.

Time will tell if this applies to Smith. As has been pointed out, he’s held up very well so far.

Best of luck to Smith owners that continues.

 

[Truebluey]

They don't call him the Slim Reaper for nothing. He excels at avoiding contact. AJ leans into the hits.

 

[Biabreakable]

We

the notion his size makes him more prone seems like a fallacy as he's been literally as durable as it gets.

I’m just saying what I’ve seen. He seems to get dinged up.

As time goes on, those hits can add up.

I don’t think it’s a fallacy at all - I didn’t say he’s absolutely going to get hurt. It’s just something I’m concerned about.

We have a pretty large sample size from NFL players, but yes, you’re correct that so far he’s been able to stay healthy.

I would like to try to understand this.

As far as hits adding up, the more often the player gets hit, the more are being added.

Is this not also true for heavier players?

Because of physics a hit on a lighter player will drive them back more than a heavier player, however the kinetic energy of the hit is the same either way. In fact the more resistance vs the hit causes the combined force to be greater than the combined force vs less resistance.

Is it the 2nd impact with the ground that is the concern here?

Less weight/resistance leads to a greater impact with the ground than more weight/resistance I think. Its just that these impacts are separated more instead of more from the initial impact vs greater weight/resistance I think, but the overal impact is still equal.

What do you mean by a large sample size of NFL players?

It’s an expression.

The point is that bigger/thicker players are better suited to entire NFL hits.

Smaller players are not as durable, generally speaking.

Time will tell if this applies to Smith. As has been pointed out, he’s held up very well so far.

Best of luck to Smith owners that continues.

Well these expressions and claims are not backed up by evidence.

In fact I have seen studies on the subject that do not support these claims.

Just because you think and say these things does not make it so.

 

[Biabreakable]

R

They don't call him the Slim Reaper for nothing. He excels at avoiding contact. AJ leans into the hits.

RIght, this is the point I am trying to make in previous post.

Sure the lighter player is being driven back more, but that does not change the force of the impact.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

R

They don't call him the Slim Reaper for nothing. He excels at avoiding contact. AJ leans into the hits.

RIght, this is the point I am trying to make in previous post.

Sure the lighter player is being driven back more, but that does not change the force of the impact.

They don’t call him slim reaper. That’s KD’s nickname.

Google is your friend.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

We

the notion his size makes him more prone seems like a fallacy as he's been literally as durable as it gets.

I’m just saying what I’ve seen. He seems to get dinged up.

As time goes on, those hits can add up.

I don’t think it’s a fallacy at all - I didn’t say he’s absolutely going to get hurt. It’s just something I’m concerned about.

We have a pretty large sample size from NFL players, but yes, you’re correct that so far he’s been able to stay healthy.

I would like to try to understand this.

As far as hits adding up, the more often the player gets hit, the more are being added.

Is this not also true for heavier players?

Because of physics a hit on a lighter player will drive them back more than a heavier player, however the kinetic energy of the hit is the same either way. In fact the more resistance vs the hit causes the combined force to be greater than the combined force vs less resistance.

Is it the 2nd impact with the ground that is the concern here?

Less weight/resistance leads to a greater impact with the ground than more weight/resistance I think. Its just that these impacts are separated more instead of more from the initial impact vs greater weight/resistance I think, but the overal impact is still equal.

What do you mean by a large sample size of NFL players?

It’s an expression.

The point is that bigger/thicker players are better suited to entire NFL hits.

Smaller players are not as durable, generally speaking.

Time will tell if this applies to Smith. As has been pointed out, he’s held up very well so far.

Best of luck to Smith owners that continues.

Well these expressions and claims are not backed up by evidence.

In fact I have seen studies on the subject that do not support these claims.

Just because you think and say these things does not make it so.

I clearly stated it was my opinion in my very 1st post.

And based on what I have observed.

And I have observed Smith get dinged up on the field often when he takes contact.

Certainly more often than larger receivers taking similar contact.

I’m allowed to have an opinion. My opinion remains that at 6’ 170 he is at greater risk for injury.

But it’s not a hill I need to die on. Good luck with Smith. For your sake I hope I’m wrong.

 

[Biabreakable]

T

We

the notion his size makes him more prone seems like a fallacy as he's been literally as durable as it gets.

I’m just saying what I’ve seen. He seems to get dinged up.

As time goes on, those hits can add up.

I don’t think it’s a fallacy at all - I didn’t say he’s absolutely going to get hurt. It’s just something I’m concerned about.

We have a pretty large sample size from NFL players, but yes, you’re correct that so far he’s been able to stay healthy.

I would like to try to understand this.

As far as hits adding up, the more often the player gets hit, the more are being added.

Is this not also true for heavier players?

Because of physics a hit on a lighter player will drive them back more than a heavier player, however the kinetic energy of the hit is the same either way. In fact the more resistance vs the hit causes the combined force to be greater than the combined force vs less resistance.

Is it the 2nd impact with the ground that is the concern here?

Less weight/resistance leads to a greater impact with the ground than more weight/resistance I think. Its just that these impacts are separated more instead of more from the initial impact vs greater weight/resistance I think, but the overal impact is still equal.

What do you mean by a large sample size of NFL players?

It’s an expression.

The point is that bigger/thicker players are better suited to entire NFL hits.

Smaller players are not as durable, generally speaking.

Time will tell if this applies to Smith. As has been pointed out, he’s held up very well so far.

Best of luck to Smith owners that continues.

Well these expressions and claims are not backed up by evidence.

In fact I have seen studies on the subject that do not support these claims.

Just because you think and say these things does not make it so.

I clearly stated it was my opinion in my very 1st post.

And based on what I have observed.

And I have observed Smith get dinged up on the field often when he takes contact.

Certainly more often than larger receivers taking similar contact.

I’m allowed to have an opinion. My opinion remains that at 6’ 170 he is at greater risk for injury.

But it’s not a hill I need to die on. Good luck with Smith. For your sake I hope I’m wrong.

Thats fine to have opinions and those opinions could be correct, which is why I asked, as maybe you had some information I am unaware of.

You did say something about sample size of the NFL that suggests a study or something like that, which I was looking for clairification about.

I like Smith. He is a polarizing example around this issue I think, which is more of a general philosophical topic for me, not specific to any particular player.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

You did say something about sample size of the NFL that suggests a study or something like that, which I was looking for clairification about.

I said there’s a body of evidence that smaller NFL players tend to have shorter careers.

It’s why we speak so highly of guys like Steve Smith (5’9”, 185) and a few other diminutive WR over the years - because they’re the exception. The outliers.

 

[Biabreakable]

You did say something about sample size of the NFL that suggests a study or something like that, which I was looking for clairification about.

I said there’s a body of evidence that smaller NFL players tend to have shorter careers.

It’s why we speak so highly of guys like Steve Smith (5’9”, 185) and a few other diminutive WR over the years - because they’re the exception. The outliers.

What is the evidence of lighter WR having shorter careers?

I am not sure thats true.

Anthony Carter and DJax had similarly long good careers as other WRs off the top of my head and Im sure there are other examples, not just outliers.

Marvin Harrison was 6' 185lbs and so considered lighter than average for the WR position, yet a HOF player.

More recently over the last 10 years or so high picks at WR have been smaller than before and many of them have been successful. Its still a bit too early to fully measure the length of their careers as successful WR I think right now, but there does seem to be a shift mote in that direction.

Tyler lockett Antonio Brown a couple of examples there. Tyreek Hill. Theres many more.

Smith is a more extreme example, which is why this has been an issue questioned about him from before he even played a snap in the NFL. He seems to be doing well. Better than I would guess many expected so far. Still lots of years left before we could evaluate his career.

Hollywood Brown is another example yet to be determined.

I am interested to explore this further.

It was something like 8 or more years ago where I recall reading some articles and studies showing that smaller WR were more abundant and successful across the NFL than they had been previously. These may have been more focused on the WR height than weight though.

So a change has already occured and some of those players careers are finished now to use to evaluate your hypothesis.

I think we are seeing the NFL shift even further in this direction recently, as far as lighter players being high draft picks. Smith is one example of that.

As far as the length of these players careers I think we need some asterixs as Antonio Brown seemed very capable of playing well in the last few games of his career. The reasons for it ending were not related to injury or decline in performance ability.

Ruggs career cut short due to other off field circumstances as well, Just something to keep in mind when looking at the length of player careers.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Tyler lockett Antonio Brown a couple of examples there. Tyreek Hill. Theres many more.

Tyler Lockett and Antonio brown have both been banged up over the years, and again - they’re the outliers I was referring to.

There are about a dozen of those undersized guys who’ve performed at a top level despite being diminutive.

As far as the length of these players careers I think we need some asterixs as Antonio Brown seemed very capable of playing well in the last few games of his career. The reasons for it ending were not related to injury or decline in performance ability.

CTE isn’t an injury? Cmon.

Anyway, you have your opinion & I have mine. You’re not convincing me I’m wrong, and it’s not an argument I need to be in. Have a nice day.

 

[need2know]

Big game incoming

 

[Ilov80s]

We don't know Brown has CTE. CTE is a bad injury to use for any example actually because for the most part we have no idea who has it and who doesn't.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

We don't know Brown has CTE. CTE is a bad injury to use for any example actually because for the most part we have no idea who has it and who doesn't.

Very interested to hear your hypothesis on what Brown has instead. He could be bipolar. Or schizophrenic.

 

[Ilov80s]

We don't know Brown has CTE. CTE is a bad injury to use for any example actually because for the most part we have no idea who has it and who doesn't.

Very interested to hear your hypothesis on what Brown has instead. He could be bipolar. Or schizophrenic.

I wouldn't begin to diagnose the mental health of someone I know so little about. He obviously seems unwell but there are a million reasons someone can behave erratically. Beyond various disorders, he could have a brain tumor, substance abuse, have had a life event that changed his perspective, etc.

 

[menobrown]

Big game incoming

Yes, I think so.

 

[Truebluey]

R

They don't call him the Slim Reaper for nothing. He excels at avoiding contact. AJ leans into the hits.

RIght, this is the point I am trying to make in previous post.

Sure the lighter player is being driven back more, but that does not change the force of the impact.

They don’t call him slim reaper. That’s KD’s nickname.

Google is your friend.

KD?? Which team is he on?

 

[Truebluey]

Big game incoming

Yes, I think so.

We liking him more with Sauce and DJ both out? I know the Jets like to play Cover 4 a lot, and AJ has a 40% target share against Cover 4.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

R

They don't call him the Slim Reaper for nothing. He excels at avoiding contact. AJ leans into the hits.

RIght, this is the point I am trying to make in previous post.

Sure the lighter player is being driven back more, but that does not change the force of the impact.

They don’t call him slim reaper. That’s KD’s nickname.

Google is your friend.

KD?? Which team is he on?

Google.com

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Big game incoming

Yes, I think so.

We liking him more with Sauce and DJ both out? I know the Jets like to play Cover 4 a lot, and AJ has a 40% target share against Cover 4.

AJB & Smith should both feast against the Jets this weekend.

That depends partly on how much offense NYJ can muster & how well the Eagles can run though. If Wilson crashes back to earth, Hurts might not have to pass much. That would be my only concern.

 

[menobrown]

Big game incoming

Yes, I think so.

We liking him more with Sauce and DJ both out? I know the Jets like to play Cover 4 a lot, and AJ has a 40% target share against Cover 4.

I liked him this week before I knew Sauce was out. I just think over the last two years I've noticed a trend with the Eagles of getting one of their big 3 going after a quiet game or two. I'm expecting a heavy does especially in the game scripted portion to open the game.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

We don't know Brown has CTE. CTE is a bad injury to use for any example actually because for the most part we have no idea who has it and who doesn't.

If I had to bet on someone who played recently having CTE...Im going with Antonio Brown, and Im betting the house. But going off the data, all NFL players have CTE.

I believe there are pros and cons to being lighter or heavier than position average when it comes to injuries.

@Hot Sauce Guy Devonta Smith is also reffered to as the Slim Reaper.

 

[Ilov80s]

We don't know Brown has CTE. CTE is a bad injury to use for any example actually because for the most part we have no idea who has it and who doesn't.

If I had to bet on someone who played recently having CTE...Im going with Antonio Brown, and Im betting the house. But going off the data, all NFL players have CTE.

I believe there are pros and cons to being lighter or heavier than position average when it comes to injuries.

@Hot Sauce Guy Devonta Smith is also reffered to as the Slim Reaper.

If the data says all NFL players basically have CTE than for this particular injury being small/light is not a risk factor.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

@Ilov80s redundant much?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

@Hot Sauce Guy Devonta Smith is also reffered to as the Slim Reaper.

KD got there 1st.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Beyond various disorders, he could have a brain tumor, substance abuse, have had a life event that changed his perspective, etc.

Occam’s razor and all that.

 

[Ilov80s]

@Ilov80s redundant much?

How so?

 

[Ilov80s]

Beyond various disorders, he could have a brain tumor, substance abuse, have had a life event that changed his perspective, etc.

Occam’s razor and all that.

I don’t think that really applies. None of these possible explanations are any more complicated than the other but this is far off topic really. Do we know of any links to “studies” on correlation to weight and injuries in football?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Beyond various disorders, he could have a brain tumor, substance abuse, have had a life event that changed his perspective, etc.

Occam’s razor and all that.

I don’t think that really applies. None of these possible explanations are any more complicated than the other but this is far off topic really. Do we know of any links to “studies” on correlation to weight and injuries in football?

I was referring to AB’s apparent CTE. Nothing to do with size.

That seems like the obvious answer there.

 

[Ilov80s]

Beyond various disorders, he could have a brain tumor, substance abuse, have had a life event that changed his perspective, etc.

Occam’s razor and all that.

I don’t think that really applies. None of these possible explanations are any more complicated than the other but this is far off topic really. Do we know of any links to “studies” on correlation to weight and injuries in football?

I was referring to AB’s apparent CTE. Nothing to do with size.

That seems like the obvious answer there.

Right but the conversation was about smaller players being more likely to be hurt and someone used AB’s supposed CTE as an example.

 

[menobrown]

We don't know Brown has CTE. CTE is a bad injury to use for any example actually because for the most part we have no idea who has it and who doesn't.

If I had to bet on someone who played recently having CTE...Im going with Antonio Brown, and Im betting the house. But going off the data, all NFL players have CTE.

I believe there are pros and cons to being lighter or heavier than position average when it comes to injuries.

@Hot Sauce Guy Devonta Smith is also reffered to as the Slim Reaper.

My guess is you'd be homeless. NFL scout I've followed for years said every team knew he was diagnosed with bi-polar when he entered the league and required medication.

I'm with Ilov80's,we got zero idea but every single time a player does something odd people just assume it's CTE. Folks I hate to break this to you, but there a lot of people in the world with peculiar behavior that is not the result of being hit in the head.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

@menobrown I wouldn't say it's one or the other...I realize Mr. Big Chest does have a personality disorder...but does having an existing condition magically shield his brain from the physical trauma that causes CTE? Every NFL player's brain that's ever been examined has had CTE.

@Ilov80s just how you were seemingly turning the conversation into an argument and being more concerned with proving yourself right than participating in dialogue and realizing other view points. If you require vindication, I agree with your assesment that there is not a discrepency between player size and having CTE, and I wouldn't classify CTE as an injury either.

As for Devonta Smith, I am excited about his potential this week. I believe he is being underrated in the weekly rankings that I've seen.

 

[ProstheticRGK]

Devonta Smith is gonna ball today. Squeaky wheel gets greased… again. Already been AJ’s turn, then Goedert’s. Now Devonta’s.

And, btw, Bipolar Disorder is NOT a personality disorder. And AB’s histrionics and behavior is pretty much classical textbook untreated Bipolar behavior.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

Devonta Smith is gonna ball today. Squeaky wheel gets greased… again. Already been AJ’s turn, then Goedert’s. Now Devonta’s.

Agreed

And, btw, Bipolar Disorder is NOT a personality disorder. And AB’s histrionics and behavior is pretty much classical textbook untreated Bipolar behavior.

Semantics...It was said a few posts earlier that AB was documented to be on medication for Bipolar...

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

If Devonta Smith has a concussion today, we have ourselves to blame for putting bad juju on him

Don't You Put That Evil On Me

m.youtube.com

 

[Drake Hater]

Both Sauce & Reed out for the Eagles. Rolling the dice with Smith.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I'm with Ilov80's,we got zero idea but every single time a player does something odd people just assume it's CTE. Folks I hate to break this to you, but there a lot of people in the world with peculiar behavior that is not the result of being hit in the head.

This is true.

I probably shouldn’t have said CTE. I’m not a doctor, nor have I personally tested AB.

He might just be non-football nutty.