WR Drake London, ATL (2 Viewers)

[Gally]

And that’s ok. Never said it wasn’t.

And similarly, if an evaluator favors combine metrics over game film, that’s also ok.

Or 50/50, 60/40, 70/30, 80/20, 90/10 in whatever direction, also ok.

My points in here have been in response to @Chaka’s position that the combine can be essentially eliminated in favor of game film. 

You didn’t address the “player coming off season-ending injury” point though. 

You can show enough through other drills that show that you have recovered from the injury without running a 40 yd dash.  For an injury like his (broken bone) I would say the medical evaluations would be more important than a 40 yd dash.  

Again, it seems that too much is placed on a 40 time (IMO) than actually game play.  I understand the issue of coming off injury but again a bad time will do more damage than not running at all.  I would also be inclined to let my play speak for me and go through drills etc that show my mobility is back and let the doctors go over the x-rays etc for the "clean bill of health"'.   I see a bad time as more damaging than a good time is helpful.  I also see a bad time as being more damaging than not running at all.  Therefore, it's a bigger risk to run than not run (IMO).

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

You can show enough through other drills that show that you have recovered from the injury without running a 40 yd dash.  For an injury like his (broken bone) I would say the medical evaluations would be more important than a 40 yd dash.  

Again, it seems that too much is placed on a 40 time (IMO) than actually game play.  I understand the issue of coming off injury but again a bad time will do more damage than not running at all.  I would also be inclined to let my play speak for me and go through drills etc that show my mobility is back and let the doctors go over the x-rays etc for the "clean bill of health"'.   I see a bad time as more damaging than a good time is helpful.  I also see a bad time as being more damaging than not running at all.  Therefore, it's a bigger risk to run than not run (IMO).

Ankles can be tricky. Running and jumping use different muscles and tendons then say, a cone drill. You can tell a lot. But you can’t tell everything.

as for 40 times, I agree that they are slightly overrated. For a player like Drake London, where he is already thought to be somewhat sluggish, and lacking in burst off the line, it would seem to be highly relevant to get those metrics recorded. 

again, it will be very interesting to see how teams react to his lack of testing. We will find out soon enough if it affects his draft stock.

 

[Gally]

Ankles can be tricky. Running and jumping use different muscles and tendons then say, a cone drill. You can tell a lot. But you can’t tell everything.

as for 40 times, I agree that they are slightly overrated. For a player like Drake London, where he is already thought to be somewhat sluggish, and lacking in burst off the line, it would seem to be highly relevant to get those metrics recorded. 

again, it will be very interesting to see how teams react to his lack of testing. We will find out soon enough if it affects his draft stock.

I am in complete agreement that teams will want him to run.  My comments were coming from his perspective.  He really has nothing to gain vs the risk by running it.  He can show he is healthy (enough) by other drills....even running quick start events without doing a full 40 time to show acceleration.  I just see the risk of running and getting a "bad" time is more hurtful to him than not running.  

 

[Faust]

Jordan Schultz @Schultz_Report

6-4, 213-lb Drake London is a complete WR and I asked a lead NFL scout to explain the USC star: “He’s a monster. He tracks the ball from the second it leaves the quarterback’s hands. He knows how to beat press and he catches everything.” (London had a stellar 5.7% drop rate.)

https://twitter.com/schultz_report/status/1515149219417538560?s=21
 

Jordan Schultz @Schultz_Report

What I love about Drake London too -- and this is consistent across NFL front offices I’ve spoken with -- is the All-State basketball background. We’re seeing more and more two-sport stars have great NFL success. In just 8 games, London totaled 88/1084/7. Spooky!

https://twitter.com/schultz_report/status/1515149783534653442?s=21

 

[Faust]

Scott Barrett @ScottBarrettDFB

Best Seasons by Age-Adjusted YPG
+ Since 2000, Power 5 WRs Only, Age <20.5

1. Michael Crabtree, 2007
2. Elijah Moore, 2020
3. DRAKE LONDON, 2021
4. Brandin Cooks, 2013
5. Antonio Bryant, 2000
6. Ja'Marr Chase, 2019
7. Larry Fitzgerald, 2003
8. Jaxon Smith-Njigba, 2021

https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1512583427987582984?s=21
 

Scott Barrett @ScottBarrettDFB

A controversial take that lacks a robust enough sample to be said with any real conviction: 

I think, when projecting college WRs to the NFL level, that contested catches are not only overrated, but that "being an elite contested catch receiver" might be an overall negative

https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1512872703874813963?s=21
 

Scott Barrett @ScottBarrettDFB

Basically, if you're relying on contested catches for your production, you’re probably not getting open a lot

And if you’re not consistently getting open in college, you're definitely going to struggle to separate in the NFL

https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1512872875514109963?s=21
 

Scott Barrett @ScottBarrettDFB

I certainly get the appeal of a Drake London

“The dude turned 68% of his contested targets into catches in 2021. He literally turns 50/50 balls into 70/30 balls. What a cheat code!”

His production profile is otherwise excellent. 

But this archetype scares the crap out of me.

https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1512874014762573826?s=21
 

Scott Barrett @ScottBarrettDFB

Excluding all catches coming on screens...

Since 2017, there have been 152 instances of a Power 5 WR gaining at least 750 receiving yards in a single season (again, minus screens). Here’s the list, ranked by % of receptions coming on contested catches:

https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1512874418120409102?s=21
 

Scott Barrett @ScottBarrettDFB

1. JJ Arcega-Whiteside, 2017 (44%)
2. N'Keal Harry, 2018 (37%)
3. JJ Arcega-Whiteside, 2018 (35%)
4. Jalen Reagor, 2018 (32%)
5. DRAKE LONDON, 2021 (31%)
6. Denzel Mims, 2019 (31%)

Is this not just a list of the top Day 1-2 busts over this timeframe?

https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1512874508067160070?s=21
 

Scott Barrett @ScottBarrettDFB

And let’s keep going. Doesn't look better from here

7 Ka'Raun White, 2017 (30%)
8 Kelvin Harmon, 2017 (30%)
9 Quintez Cephus, 2019 (30%)
10 Sage Surratt, 2019 (30%)
11 Tylan Wallace, 2020 (29%)
12 Jayden Reed, 2021 (29%)
...
20 Hakeem Butler, 2018 (27%)
21 DAVID BELL, 2019 (27%)

https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1512875012193148929?s=21
 

Scott Barrett @ScottBarrettDFB

I don't know that the reverse of that stat is necessarily a pure positive (maybe being able to win in both areas is more important), but I certainly like the opposite end more.

https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1512875286001500166?s=21

Scott Barrett @ScottBarrettDFB

Here’s the bottom-12:

Last / 152. Amari Rodgers, 2020 (2%)
151. Marquise Brown, 2017 (3%)
…
147. Olamide Zaccheaus, 2018 (5%)
146. Brandon Aiyuk, 2019 (5%)
145. Marquise Brown, 2018 (5%)
…
143. Jerry Jeudy, 2019 (6%)
142. Calvin Ridley, 2017 (6%)
141. Kadarius Toney, 2020 (6%)

https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1512875376544002066?s=21

 

[IHEARTFF]

https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1512583427987582984?s=21
 

https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1512872703874813963?s=21
 

https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1512872875514109963?s=21
 

https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1512874014762573826?s=21
 

https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1512874418120409102?s=21
 

https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1512874508067160070?s=21
 

https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1512875012193148929?s=21
 

https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1512875286001500166?s=21

https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/status/1512875376544002066?s=21

that was a wild ride from the first tweet to the end there

 

[Dr. Octopus]

You can show enough through other drills that show that you have recovered from the injury without running a 40 yd dash.  For an injury like his (broken bone) I would say the medical evaluations would be more important than a 40 yd dash.  

Again, it seems that too much is placed on a 40 time (IMO) than actually game play.  I understand the issue of coming off injury but again a bad time will do more damage than not running at all.  I would also be inclined to let my play speak for me and go through drills etc that show my mobility is back and let the doctors go over the x-rays etc for the "clean bill of health"'.   I see a bad time as more damaging than a good time is helpful.  I also see a bad time as being more damaging than not running at all.  Therefore, it's a bigger risk to run than not run (IMO).

I know it sounds simple enough that a player shouldn’t get hurt sprinting 40 yards - but these guys aren’t track stars for the most part. It’s a different muscle memory than they are used to. I mean we see guys pull hamstrings while doing them. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I know it sounds simple enough that a player shouldn’t get hurt sprinting 40 yards - but these guys aren’t track stars for the most part. It’s a different muscle memory than they are used to. I mean we see guys pull hamstrings while doing them. 

I pull hamstrings getting out of bed in the morning, but if there was a chance that by doing so I’d stand to make millions of dollars, I’ll be a gettin outta bed MF-er.

and twice on Sundays. 

 

[Gally]

I pull hamstrings getting out of bed in the morning, but if there was a chance that by doing so I’d stand to make millions of dollars, I’ll be a gettin outta bed MF-er.

and twice on Sundays. 

But London is going to get millions regardless.  Why risk it when there is really only downside?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I pull hamstrings getting out of bed in the morning, but if there was a chance that by doing so I’d stand to make millions of dollars, I’ll be a gettin outta bed MF-er.

and twice on Sundays. 

Well the point is a pulled hamstring could cost him money. I mean the timing would be bad with the draft coming right up.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

But London is going to get millions regardless.  Why risk it when there is really only downside?

making millions less by falling a dozen spots because some teams won’t want to risk taking a player who was too selfish or injured to run a 40? 

 

[Gally]

making millions less by falling a dozen spots because some teams won’t want to risk taking a player who was too selfish or injured to run a 40? 

Too selfish?  I really don't understand that take.  How is not running any more selfish than just doing what he thinks is best for him..........whether that be running or not running?

All players are doing what they think is best for their draft stock based on their camp (agents, trusted people, doctors, etc).  Not running isn't "selfish".  

Like I said earlier, not running hurts his stock a lot less than running and getting a bad time (IMO).  Based on that reasoning there is no reason to risk running.  

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I’m going to let the thread turn back to London - and for the record I’m not against the testing and I do pay some attention to it, but it also shouldn’t be a big deal the other way.

I’m curious to see where the WRs end up because I can see 3 guys with London being one of them, that could be the first one off the board in two weeks.

 

[Obie Wan]

making millions less by falling a dozen spots because some teams won’t want to risk taking a player who was too selfish or injured to run a 40? 

you continue to impose your feelings being hurt about a guy not running- to NFL talent evaluators.

Darft day will show that London does not drop 10 spots to fall almost out of the first round

teams may like to see him run, but bottom line, the good teams will not care he didn't run and will draft him mid 1st based on his on field performance 

 

[travdogg]

I’m going to let the thread turn back to London - and for the record I’m not against the testing and I do pay some attention to it, but it also shouldn’t be a big deal the other way.

I’m curious to see where the WRs end up because I can see 3 guys with London being one of them, that could be the first one off the board in two weeks.

I'd put the over/under on London at the Texans at 13.

 

[Marauder]

making millions less by falling a dozen spots because some teams won’t want to risk taking a player who was too selfish or injured to run a 40? 

Although in this draft falling to GB or KC instead of going to ATL or NYJ might not be such a bad thing. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Although in this draft falling to GB or KC instead of going to ATL or NYJ might not be such a bad thing. 

For the team, for sure. Maybe for future earnings as well. For the player’s pocket? Notsomuch.

IIRC it’s literally millions of dollars, including a couple million dollar hit to the signing bonus. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I'd put the over/under on London at the Texans at 13.

I’ll take the over. I see him going in the 18-24 range. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

you continue to impose your feelings being hurt about a guy not running- to NFL talent evaluators.

I never said my feelings were hurt. I never expressed anything about my feelings at all. Can you quote me saying that?

What a bizarre post. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Too selfish?  I really don't understand that take.  How is not running any more selfish than just doing what he thinks is best for him..........whether that be running or not running?

All players are doing what they think is best for their draft stock based on their camp (agents, trusted people, doctors, etc).  Not running isn't "selfish".  

Like I said earlier, not running hurts his stock a lot less than running and getting a bad time (IMO).  Based on that reasoning there is no reason to risk running.  

i’m not being judgmental. It’s a statement of fact. He is refusing to do something that’s considered standard practice for players entering the NFL. 

I see that as a very me-first attitude. Maybe there’s a better synonym? Ok, he’s that. Whatever you want to call putting his own interests ahead of everything else, and opting to not do what the league expects of him, and that so so so many other players did go through, that’s what he is.

I call it selfish. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I’m going to let the thread turn back to London - and for the record I’m not against the testing and I do pay some attention to it, but it also shouldn’t be a big deal the other way.

I’m curious to see where the WRs end up because I can see 3 guys with London being one of them, that could be the first one off the board in two weeks.

Could be Eagles. I’ve seen a lot of Eagles rumors with London’s name popping up.

JJAWs II? 

 

[Gally]

i’m not being judgmental. It’s a statement of fact. He is refusing to do something that’s considered standard practice for players entering the NFL. 

I see that as a very me-first attitude. Maybe there’s a better synonym? Ok, he’s that. Whatever you want to call putting his own interests ahead of everything else, and opting to not do what the league expects of him, and that so so so many other players did go through, that’s what he is.

I call it selfish. 

Every player does what they believe is in their own best interest leading into the draft.  For many of them, their best interest is running the 40 or going to the combine or having a pro day etc.  They all do what they believe is in their self interest.  It just so happens much of the time that is doing exactly what is asked of them. In this particular case what is in London 's best interest is to not run.  That does not make him any more selfish than every other player going through the process.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Every player does what they believe is in their own best interest leading into the draft.  For many of them, their best interest is running the 40 or going to the combine or having a pro day etc.  They all do what they believe is in their self interest.  It just so happens much of the time that is doing exactly what is asked of them. In this particular case what is in London 's best interest is to not run.  That does not make him any more selfish than every other player going through the process.

Not sure NFL teams see it that generously but I won’t argue the basic premise.

 

[travdogg]

I’ll take the over. I see him going in the 18-24 range. 

He's got a wide range. I could see as high as Atlanta at 8, or as low as Green Bay at 22. He's not falling past GB in my opinion, he'd be a monster on those back shoulder throws Rodgers loves. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

he'd be a monster on those back shoulder throws Rodgers loves. 

Back shoulder catches aren’t really his strength, but I agree GB would be a good landing spot.

 

[Donnybrook]

I'd put the over/under on London at the Texans at 13.

I will take the over, as well. 

Kennan Allen was supposed to be a late 1st rounder but too a long time recovering from a PCL injury.  He actually ran 4.7 forty on his Pro Day.  He fell to the 76th pick in the 2013 draft. 

 

[Gally]

I will take the over, as well. 

Kennan Allen was supposed to be a late 1st rounder but too a long time recovering from a PCL injury.  He actually ran 4.7 forty on his Pro Day.  He fell to the 76th pick in the 2013 draft. 

Prime example why London did the right thing by not running the 40

 

[travdogg]

I will take the over, as well. 

Kennan Allen was supposed to be a late 1st rounder but too a long time recovering from a PCL injury.  He actually ran 4.7 forty on his Pro Day.  He fell to the 76th pick in the 2013 draft. 

31 teams would love to have a do over on that decision

 

[Obie Wan]

i’m not being judgmental. It’s a statement of fact. He is refusing to do something that’s considered standard practice for players entering the NFL. 

I see that as a very me-first attitude. Maybe there’s a better synonym? Ok, he’s that. Whatever you want to call putting his own interests ahead of everything else, and opting to not do what the league expects of him, and that so so so many other players did go through, that’s what he is.

I call it selfish. 

sure sounds like feelings

why does his decision to not run bother you so much? 

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Prime example why London did the right thing by not running the 40

Everyone now assumes he would have run a 4.7. It would be the same as running it. 

 

[Gally]

Everyone now assumes he would have run a 4.7. It would be the same as running it. 

I disagree with that sentiment.  I think some will give him the benefit of the doubt.......others will not.  Overall, he would be worse off running and actually running a 4.7

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

I disagree with that sentiment.  I think some will give him the benefit of the doubt.......others will not.  Overall, he would be worse off running and actually running a 4.7

There is one reason not to run, his time is worse than people think. Everyone thought he was going to run slow. 

 

[menobrown]

Devonta Smith last year showed up for measurements, clocked in at a scant 175 pounds, decided to do zero workouts and basically told teams to watch the film and then went 10th in a much better draft.

I don't think Drake London not running the 40 is going to impact his draft stock at all .These teams have access to GPS data we don't have, they got an idea already how fast they are playing. If a team liked Drake before I don't think they soured on him because he said no to the 40.  Now they might be a bit more down on him hat he's not as long as some thought and the fact some of his comp, mainly the Ohio States, ran super fast 40's but I really don't think him not running the 40 is going to impact him.

 

[travdogg]

There is one reason not to run, his time is worse than people think. Everyone thought he was going to run slow. 

I mean, there is more than 1 reason. Could just as easily be he isn't fully healthy yet. Or its possible he actually is taking a stand of some sorts, and actually does want to let his tape speak for itself. Either way, I doubt it makes much if any difference to where he's drafted. He'll be one of the top-3 WRs taken. 

Devonta Smith last year showed up for measurements, clocked in at a scant 175 pounds, decided to do zero workouts and basically told teams to watch the film and then went 10th in a much better draft.

I don't think Drake London not running the 40 is going to impact his draft stock at all .These teams have access to GPS data we don't have, they got an idea already how fast they are playing. If a team liked Drake before I don't think they soured on him because he said no to the 40.  Now they might be a bit more down on him hat he's not as long as some thought and the fact some of his comp, mainly the Ohio States, ran super fast 40's but I really don't think him not running the 40 is going to impact him.

I may be overthinking it a little, but I'm not sure Wilson or Olave are relevant to London. Like, they are so different style players, that they basically play different positions. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

sure sounds like feelings

why does his decision to not run bother you so much? 

Welcome to my ignored users list. You may continue to troll in silence.

 

[Chaka]

But tape Isn’t a level playing field. Level of competition skews it one way or the other. 

And they aren’t performing for free. They are literally auditioning for a multi-million dollar contract. Some would argue that this is the most important audition of their career - which, to date, they’ve largely played for free and unprotected since peewee league football, HS, & college.

And the combine isn't competitive. There is also little correlation between running 40 yards in a straight line real fast and success in the NFL.

They auditioned for four years, if the NFL wants more then offer them protection for the additional risk. It's not like the league can't afford it.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

And the combine isn't competitive. There is also little correlation between running 40 yards in a straight line real fast and success in the NFL.

They auditioned for four years, if the NFL wants more then offer them protection for the additional risk. It's not like the league can't afford it.

That’s why teams use both. 

 

[foxco]

Assuming he lands in a good spot, where does he go in dynasty drafts? Where would you target him (if you would target him at all.)

 

[Chaka]

And that’s ok. Never said it wasn’t.

And similarly, if an evaluator favors combine metrics over game film, that’s also ok.

Or 50/50, 60/40, 70/30, 80/20, 90/10 in whatever direction, also ok.

My points in here have been in response to @Chaka’s position that the combine can be essentially eliminated in favor of game film. 

You didn’t address the “player coming off season-ending injury” point though. 

What? That's not my point at all.

I think the combine questionable value in evaluating NFL success but that isn't the point I am making.

My point is athletes shouldn't do a darn thing that puts them at even a shred of risk without compensation and protection.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

What? That's not my point at all.

I think the combine questionable value in evaluating NFL success but that isn't the point I am making.

My point is athletes shouldn't do a darn thing that puts them at even a shred of risk without compensation and protection.

Which is the same as saying players shouldn’t do the combine. 

How can they have a combine if all the players skip the combine? 

6 of one, half dozen of the other.  
 

you literally said the teams can watch the film. 

 

[Chaka]

Which is the same as saying players shouldn’t do the combine. 

How can they have a combine if all the players skip the combine? 

6 of one, half dozen of the other.  
 

you literally said the teams can watch the film. 

Yes I did. And I said the draft is anti-capitalist too, and I meant it.

But it's not the same as saying they shouldn't have a combine.

It's simple, you want them to take the risk of major injury (David Ojabo lost a lot more money than London will by not running a 40) then pay them.

Pay them, protect them and I will support all the pre-draft arbitrary hoop jumping you want. Otherwise players and their agents should tell the NFL to pound sand.

 

[MAC_32]

Will someone please let me know when this nonsense ends

 

[menobrown]

Will someone please let me know when this nonsense ends

9 days.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Pay them, protect them and I will support all the pre-draft arbitrary hoop jumping you want. Otherwise players and their agents should tell the NFL to pound sand.

Not disagreeing. Such is the nature of the NFL monopoly machine. I’m just saying this is a double edged sword that could cost a player millions.. 

 

[Gally]

Yes I did. And I said the draft is anti-capitalist too, and I meant it.

Capitalism doesn't work for professional sports because you need competition for the league to succeed.  In almost every other industry you want to beat your competition so bad that they fold so you get their business.  Professional sports doesn’t work that way.  Without an even playing field leagues would die because nobody wants to see one team beat everyone else by 100 pts each week.  It would be boring and the league would fold.

Bringing capitalism into professional sports is really a bad idea.

 

[Chaka]

Capitalism doesn't work for professional sports because you need competition for the league to succeed.  In almost every other industry you want to beat your competition so bad that they fold so you get their business.  Professional sports doesn’t work that way.  Without an even playing field leagues would die because nobody wants to see one team beat everyone else by 100 pts each week.  It would be boring and the league would fold.

Bringing capitalism into professional sports is really a bad idea.

Correct on all fronts, except I don't think they would fold. The American appetite for sports won't go away. The leagues may be unbalanced, the competition may not be as good and the leagues may be smaller from a revenue perspective. I'm not sure any of that is a bad thing. But the idea that the NFL would fold is extremely unlikely, it may not be as good but it will still be around and strong.

I just think workers should be able to interview with any potential employer who may be interested in their services and that employer should have the opportunity to hire any worker they feel would improve their business.

And @MAC_32 I promise to get back to talking specifically about London as soon as something worth talking about happens. He chose not to run so talking about that aspect in the broader sense, in this thread makes sense to me. @Hot Sauce Guy

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

And @MAC_32 I promise to get back to talking specifically about London as soon as something worth talking about happens. He chose not to run so talking about that aspect in the broader sense, in this thread makes sense to me. If you want a new thread on the topic talk to 

I mean, it’s been an interesting conversation.

 

[MAC_32]

And @MAC_32 I promise to get back to talking specifically about London as soon as something worth talking about happens. He chose not to run so talking about that aspect in the broader sense

I choose not to run

 

[Obie Wan]

Welcome to my ignored users list. You may continue to troll in silence.

more feelings?

 

[JohnnyU]

When someone doesn't run during the combine or pro-day and they are healthy, it makes me think, what are they hiding?  If injured, then I understand.  I would definitely think GMs should pay attention to that.