WR Ja’Lynn Polk, NE (2 Viewers)

[JohnnyU]

It may change if Maye ever gets a shot, but I can't get excited about any of the Patriots pass catchers right now.

 

[Boston]

If their Oline ever gets healthy and Maye can get on the field, Polk has some value. Until then, it's bye week replacement at best.

Unfortunately it is not a health issue with the Pats line…it is a talent issue.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

If their Oline ever gets healthy and Maye can get on the field, Polk has some value. Until then, it's bye week replacement at best.

I'm not suggesting you start him, but he looks like the best WR on that roster and his snap count trends make be believe the coaches are seeing the same. I like Douglass too, but he's not a complete WR like Polk. Polk seems like a guy where it's only a matter of time before he goes off. His route running and looks elite against NFL corners. QB play has been terrible, yes. Running game has been pathetic, yes. Offensive line play has been, offensive. I'm not sure if JB will improve or Maye will be any better, but Polk looks like he belongs and I'm not comparing him to Nabers, but Nabers proves that an alpha can produce even with a terrible QB, terrible offensive line, and vanilla play-calling. This gives me hope with someone like Polk.

 

[Anarchy99]

It may change if Maye ever gets a shot, but I can't get excited about any of the Patriots pass catchers right now.

There is no reason to get excited about NE WRs in redraft leagues. Not even a little. Here are the combined weekly totals for the Pats WR receiving corps: (targets, catches, yards, TD)

Week 1: 13-8-66-0
Week 2: 5-3-19-1
Week 3: 14-10-84-0
Week 4: 17-8-57-0

The biggest issue is the OL, which has not allowed Brissett many good passing opportunities. Brissett ranks #1 in most pressures (50% of drop backs), 2nd in knockdowns, and 3rd in sacks. Their only lineman rated above average is Onwenu. Everyone else wouldn't be starting on another franchise. They've had multiple injuries, but the revolving door of linemen aren't any good, so it doesn't matter who plays or who doesn't.

Polk ranks 3rd in the league in separation win rate, but he's only been targeted 13 times in 4 games and currently ranks as the fantasy WR83. Kendrick Bourne is expected to come off the PUP list and start practicing this week, and I would expect he will become an integral part of the passing attack. I struggle to see how the Pats get Polk to be a regular fantasy producer (or any WR for that matter) this season. Their top ranked WR each week in PPR leagues has been:

Week 1: Osborn - 66
Week 2: Polk - 36
Week 3: Douglas - 26
Week 4: Polk - 65

The media talking heads rarely agree on anything, but they 100% agree that the Pats needed to draft an OT instead of Polk with the 37th pick in the draft.

As far as Maye goes, from the talking heads I have seen, there is no timeline to insert him as a starter. He may end up starting if Brissett gets knocked out. I know the narrative recently has been that he's getting 30% of the reps with starters, but that's misleading. Brissett has been leading the starting offense in practice. He's the one getting game specific reps, and the reps Maye has been getting are for plays that Jacoby already knows and doesn't need more practice on. Bottom line, there's a limited amount of plays Maye has been working with the starters in practice, and they haven't increased his participation as of yet. If there is any plan to get Maye ramped up to being the starter, I would say that's at least a month away . . . and that's only if they decide to ramp up his practice utilization and give him the premium reps and not just the leftovers. I know fans are getting on Mayo to start Maye, but I don't believe for a second that he is the one making that decision.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

It may change if Maye ever gets a shot, but I can't get excited about any of the Patriots pass catchers right now.

There is no reason to get excited about NE WRs in redraft leagues. Not even a little. Here are the combined weekly totals for the Pats WR receiving corps: (targets, catches, yards, TD)

Week 1: 13-8-66-0
Week 2: 5-3-19-1
Week 3: 14-10-84-0
Week 4: 17-8-57-0

The biggest issue is the OL, which has not allowed Brissett many good passing opportunities. Brissett ranks #1 in most pressures (50% of drop backs), 2nd in knockdowns, and 3rd in sacks. Their only lineman rated above average is Onwenu. Everyone else wouldn't be starting on another franchise. They've had multiple injuries, but the revolving door of linemen aren't any good, so it doesn't matter who plays or who doesn't.

Polk ranks 3rd in the league in separation win rate, but he's only been targeted 13 times in 4 games and currently ranks as the fantasy WR83. Kendrick Bourne is expected to come off the PUP list and start practicing this week, and I would expect he will become an integral part of the passing attack. I struggle to see how the Pats get Polk to be a regular fantasy producer (or any WR for that matter) this season. Their top ranked WR each week in PPR leagues has been:

Week 1: Osborn - 66
Week 2: Polk - 36
Week 3: Douglas - 26
Week 4: Polk - 65

The media talking heads rarely agree on anything, but they 100% agree that the Pats needed to draft an OT instead of Polk with the 37th pick in the draft.

As far as Maye goes, from the talking heads I have seen, there is no timeline to insert him as a starter. He may end up starting if Brissett gets knocked out. I know the narrative recently has been that he's getting 30% of the reps with starters, but that's misleading. Brissett has been leading the starting offense in practice. He's the one getting game specific reps, and the reps Maye has been getting are for plays that Jacoby already knows and doesn't need more practice on. Bottom line, there's a limited amount of plays Maye has been working with the starters in practice, and they haven't increased his participation as of yet. If there is any plan to get Maye ramped up to being the starter, I would say that's at least a month away . . . and that's only if they decide to ramp up his practice utilization and give him the premium reps and not just the leftovers. I know fans are getting on Mayo to start Maye, but I don't believe for a second that he is the one making that decision.

Brissett holds the ball too long. He always has. This trait will make offensive lines look much worse than they actually are. This trait amplifies deficiencies. I worry about Maye because of their unwillingness to put him out there, but who knows? Maybe they catch lightning in a bottle. If he has a modicum of pocket presence and is willing to cut it loose, he's an immediate improvement over Brissett. Talent wins out. Polk has it on spades. If he clogs my roster, so be it. I would much rather have a guy that's already proven his ability to get open, but is stuck in a seemingly hopeless situation over a guy that's proven he can't do it, but happens to be rostered on a great team. Things change fast in the NFL. Bourne is not a threat to Polk. Stop that noise. Bourne is entering his 8th season in the NFL, coming off a torn ACL in the middle of last season. The most passes he's ever caught in a year was 55. The most yards, 800. Most TDs, 5. He's JAG.

 

[abrunn1133]

It may change if Maye ever gets a shot, but I can't get excited about any of the Patriots pass catchers right now.

There is no reason to get excited about NE WRs in redraft leagues. Not even a little. Here are the combined weekly totals for the Pats WR receiving corps: (targets, catches, yards, TD)

Week 1: 13-8-66-0
Week 2: 5-3-19-1
Week 3: 14-10-84-0
Week 4: 17-8-57-0

The biggest issue is the OL, which has not allowed Brissett many good passing opportunities. Brissett ranks #1 in most pressures (50% of drop backs), 2nd in knockdowns, and 3rd in sacks. Their only lineman rated above average is Onwenu. Everyone else wouldn't be starting on another franchise. They've had multiple injuries, but the revolving door of linemen aren't any good, so it doesn't matter who plays or who doesn't.

Polk ranks 3rd in the league in separation win rate, but he's only been targeted 13 times in 4 games and currently ranks as the fantasy WR83. Kendrick Bourne is expected to come off the PUP list and start practicing this week, and I would expect he will become an integral part of the passing attack. I struggle to see how the Pats get Polk to be a regular fantasy producer (or any WR for that matter) this season. Their top ranked WR each week in PPR leagues has been:

Week 1: Osborn - 66
Week 2: Polk - 36
Week 3: Douglas - 26
Week 4: Polk - 65

The media talking heads rarely agree on anything, but they 100% agree that the Pats needed to draft an OT instead of Polk with the 37th pick in the draft.

As far as Maye goes, from the talking heads I have seen, there is no timeline to insert him as a starter. He may end up starting if Brissett gets knocked out. I know the narrative recently has been that he's getting 30% of the reps with starters, but that's misleading. Brissett has been leading the starting offense in practice. He's the one getting game specific reps, and the reps Maye has been getting are for plays that Jacoby already knows and doesn't need more practice on. Bottom line, there's a limited amount of plays Maye has been working with the starters in practice, and they haven't increased his participation as of yet. If there is any plan to get Maye ramped up to being the starter, I would say that's at least a month away . . . and that's only if they decide to ramp up his practice utilization and give him the premium reps and not just the leftovers. I know fans are getting on Mayo to start Maye, but I don't believe for a second that he is the one making that decision.

Brissett holds the ball too long. He always has. This trait will make offensive lines look much worse than they actually are. This trait amplifies deficiencies. I worry about Maye because of their unwillingness to put him out there, but who knows? Maybe they catch lightning in a bottle. If he has a modicum of pocket presence and is willing to cut it loose, he's an immediate improvement over Brissett. Talent wins out. Polk has it on spades. If he clogs my roster, so be it. I would much rather have a guy that's already proven his ability to get open, but is stuck in a seemingly hopeless situation over a guy that's proven he can't do it, but happens to be rostered on a great team. Things change fast in the NFL. Bourne is not a threat to Polk. Stop that noise. Bourne is entering his 8th season in the NFL, coming off a torn ACL in the middle of last season. The most passes he's ever caught in a year was 55. The most yards, 800. Most TDs, 5. He's JAG.

Just ask Nico Collins how fast things change in the NFL. You are spot on about talent winning out.

 

[Boston]

It may change if Maye ever gets a shot, but I can't get excited about any of the Patriots pass catchers right now.

There is no reason to get excited about NE WRs in redraft leagues. Not even a little. Here are the combined weekly totals for the Pats WR receiving corps: (targets, catches, yards, TD)

Week 1: 13-8-66-0
Week 2: 5-3-19-1
Week 3: 14-10-84-0
Week 4: 17-8-57-0

The biggest issue is the OL, which has not allowed Brissett many good passing opportunities. Brissett ranks #1 in most pressures (50% of drop backs), 2nd in knockdowns, and 3rd in sacks. Their only lineman rated above average is Onwenu. Everyone else wouldn't be starting on another franchise. They've had multiple injuries, but the revolving door of linemen aren't any good, so it doesn't matter who plays or who doesn't.

Polk ranks 3rd in the league in separation win rate, but he's only been targeted 13 times in 4 games and currently ranks as the fantasy WR83. Kendrick Bourne is expected to come off the PUP list and start practicing this week, and I would expect he will become an integral part of the passing attack. I struggle to see how the Pats get Polk to be a regular fantasy producer (or any WR for that matter) this season. Their top ranked WR each week in PPR leagues has been:

Week 1: Osborn - 66
Week 2: Polk - 36
Week 3: Douglas - 26
Week 4: Polk - 65

The media talking heads rarely agree on anything, but they 100% agree that the Pats needed to draft an OT instead of Polk with the 37th pick in the draft.

As far as Maye goes, from the talking heads I have seen, there is no timeline to insert him as a starter. He may end up starting if Brissett gets knocked out. I know the narrative recently has been that he's getting 30% of the reps with starters, but that's misleading. Brissett has been leading the starting offense in practice. He's the one getting game specific reps, and the reps Maye has been getting are for plays that Jacoby already knows and doesn't need more practice on. Bottom line, there's a limited amount of plays Maye has been working with the starters in practice, and they haven't increased his participation as of yet. If there is any plan to get Maye ramped up to being the starter, I would say that's at least a month away . . . and that's only if they decide to ramp up his practice utilization and give him the premium reps and not just the leftovers. I know fans are getting on Mayo to start Maye, but I don't believe for a second that he is the one making that decision.

Brissett holds the ball too long. He always has. This trait will make offensive lines look much worse than they actually are. This trait amplifies deficiencies. I worry about Maye because of their unwillingness to put him out there, but who knows? Maybe they catch lightning in a bottle. If he has a modicum of pocket presence and is willing to cut it loose, he's an immediate improvement over Brissett. Talent wins out. Polk has it on spades. If he clogs my roster, so be it. I would much rather have a guy that's already proven his ability to get open, but is stuck in a seemingly hopeless situation over a guy that's proven he can't do it, but happens to be rostered on a great team. Things change fast in the NFL. Bourne is not a threat to Polk. Stop that noise. Bourne is entering his 8th season in the NFL, coming off a torn ACL in the middle of last season. The most passes he's ever caught in a year was 55. The most yards, 800. Most TDs, 5. He's JAG.

I like Polk as well but I don’t think you realize just how bad their line is…and that was with David Andrews who may be out for the season…I could not disagree with you more about why you are worried about Maye…the Pats are in a bad spot and the only thing that would make it worse is if Maye gets hurt or gets the David Carr treatment because he cannot be protected…if their line was average I have no doubt he would be playing right now…as a Pats fan who is really excited about Maye (and I have been hearing nothing but good things about his development) I would love to see him playing but right now that would be irresponsible…he will play this year but they need to play the long game with him.

 

[Anarchy99]

Bourne is not a threat to Polk. Stop that noise. Bourne is entering his 8th season in the NFL, coming off a torn ACL in the middle of last season. The most passes he's ever caught in a year was 55. The most yards, 800. Most TDs, 5. He's JAG.

Just because Bourne has seen reduced volume and has been underutilized does not necessarily mean he is a JAG. In 2021, he ranked in the Top 10 in yards per touch for WR, better than guys like Kupp, Samuel, and Adams. IIRC, he also ranked 1st or 2nd in big play rate that year and produced the 5th highest QB rating in the league when targeted. Not his fault Jones and McDaniels didn't get him the ball more and he only played half the snaps.

He's suffered from seeing limited targets (a high of only 74). He'll be working with his 5th different offensive coordinator in 5 years . . . which never boosts player production. Bourne has more career receptions than every other WR on the Pats combined. The current Pats regime seems to value experience over anything else. Is he going to put up world beating numbers? No. But the Pats wouldn't have resigned him if they had no interest in playing him.

As for Polk, part of the reason he's been getting so open has been teams have been worrying about the run and not having to worry much about the pass. If there comes a point when NE shows they are better than a high school team at passing the ball (they currently rank last in the league by nearly 25 yards per game), then defenses will adjust. Talent may trump all, but NE has very little talent. Polk might do well down the road when NE has a capable OL, other NFL level receivers, and a QB that is in the top half of the league (which may or may not be Maye).

Not discussed so far in this thread has been the lack of cohesion and unity after the last few games. Players have been complaining, coaches don't seem to be on the same page, and they are moving forward a bit rudderless. It's clear that Mayo would be playing Maye if the decision was left to him, but people higher up the food chain apparently are in no rush to get Drake on the field. It's very possible the culture and climate continue to deteriorate. The Pats are at risk of being as bad or worse than what people expected of them this year.

Maye is the great hope, but I'm not sure the offense would perform much better with him. IMO, he's more likely to be Bryce Young than CJ Stroud as things stand presently. As has been pointed out recently, Maye only posted slightly above average numbers for the ACC his last year at UNC . . . his production was like 5th or 6th in the league that season. He wasn't lighting it up in the SEC or Big 10 like the other top QBs the past couple of drafts. I know the fans are eager to have him start, but if he averages 2+ turnovers a game and they still can't get out of their own way offensively, then what?

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

Bourne is not a threat to Polk. Stop that noise. Bourne is entering his 8th season in the NFL, coming off a torn ACL in the middle of last season. The most passes he's ever caught in a year was 55. The most yards, 800. Most TDs, 5. He's JAG.

Just because Bourne has seen reduced volume and has been underutilized does not necessarily mean he is a JAG. In 2021, he ranked in the Top 10 in yards per touch for WR, better than guys like Kupp, Samuel, and Adams. IIRC, he also ranked 1st or 2nd in big play rate that year and produced the 5th highest QB rating in the league when targeted. Not his fault Jones and McDaniels didn't get him the ball more and he only played half the snaps.

He's suffered from seeing limited targets (a high of only 74). He'll be working with his 5th different offensive coordinator in 5 years . . . which never boosts player production. Bourne has more career receptions than every other WR on the Pats combined. The current Pats regime seems to value experience over anything else. Is he going to put up world beating numbers? No. But the Pats wouldn't have resigned him if they had no interest in playing him.

As for Polk, part of the reason he's been getting so open has been teams have been worrying about the run and not having to worry much about the pass. If there comes a point when NE shows they are better than a high school team at passing the ball (they currently rank last in the league by nearly 25 yards per game), then defenses will adjust. Talent may trump all, but NE has very little talent. Polk might do well down the road when NE has a capable OL, other NFL level receivers, and a QB that is in the top half of the league (which may or may not be Maye).

Not discussed so far in this thread has been the lack of cohesion and unity after the last few games. Players have been complaining, coaches don't seem to be on the same page, and they are moving forward a bit rudderless. It's clear that Mayo would be playing Maye if the decision was left to him, but people higher up the food chain apparently are in no rush to get Drake on the field. It's very possible the culture and climate continue to deteriorate. The Pats are at risk of being as bad or worse than what people expected of them this year.

Maye is the great hope, but I'm not sure the offense would perform much better with him. IMO, he's more likely to be Bryce Young than CJ Stroud as things stand presently. As has been pointed out recently, Maye only posted slightly above average numbers for the ACC his last year at UNC . . . his production was like 5th or 6th in the league that season. He wasn't lighting it up in the SEC or Big 10 like the other top QBs the past couple of drafts. I know the fans are eager to have him start, but if he averages 2+ turnovers a game and they still can't get out of their own way offensively, then what?

Regardless of your thoughts on Bourne and his productivity, he's got 8 years of play in the league to back it up. It is what it is. I can think of very few receivers who have late career breakouts. Brandon Lloyd may be the only one that comes to mind off the top of my head.. Has Bourne been more productive with the Patriots than the 49ers? Yes. Is he a #1? I don't think so. Even with his "breakout" performance through 8 games last season, he still wasn't on pace for 1,000 yards. I stand by my comment, he's not an alpha, he's JAG and now he's got an ACL recovery to deal with. He's not even a year removed from blowing it out.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

It may change if Maye ever gets a shot, but I can't get excited about any of the Patriots pass catchers right now.

There is no reason to get excited about NE WRs in redraft leagues. Not even a little. Here are the combined weekly totals for the Pats WR receiving corps: (targets, catches, yards, TD)

Week 1: 13-8-66-0
Week 2: 5-3-19-1
Week 3: 14-10-84-0
Week 4: 17-8-57-0

The biggest issue is the OL, which has not allowed Brissett many good passing opportunities. Brissett ranks #1 in most pressures (50% of drop backs), 2nd in knockdowns, and 3rd in sacks. Their only lineman rated above average is Onwenu. Everyone else wouldn't be starting on another franchise. They've had multiple injuries, but the revolving door of linemen aren't any good, so it doesn't matter who plays or who doesn't.

Polk ranks 3rd in the league in separation win rate, but he's only been targeted 13 times in 4 games and currently ranks as the fantasy WR83. Kendrick Bourne is expected to come off the PUP list and start practicing this week, and I would expect he will become an integral part of the passing attack. I struggle to see how the Pats get Polk to be a regular fantasy producer (or any WR for that matter) this season. Their top ranked WR each week in PPR leagues has been:

Week 1: Osborn - 66
Week 2: Polk - 36
Week 3: Douglas - 26
Week 4: Polk - 65

The media talking heads rarely agree on anything, but they 100% agree that the Pats needed to draft an OT instead of Polk with the 37th pick in the draft.

As far as Maye goes, from the talking heads I have seen, there is no timeline to insert him as a starter. He may end up starting if Brissett gets knocked out. I know the narrative recently has been that he's getting 30% of the reps with starters, but that's misleading. Brissett has been leading the starting offense in practice. He's the one getting game specific reps, and the reps Maye has been getting are for plays that Jacoby already knows and doesn't need more practice on. Bottom line, there's a limited amount of plays Maye has been working with the starters in practice, and they haven't increased his participation as of yet. If there is any plan to get Maye ramped up to being the starter, I would say that's at least a month away . . . and that's only if they decide to ramp up his practice utilization and give him the premium reps and not just the leftovers. I know fans are getting on Mayo to start Maye, but I don't believe for a second that he is the one making that decision.

Brissett holds the ball too long. He always has. This trait will make offensive lines look much worse than they actually are. This trait amplifies deficiencies. I worry about Maye because of their unwillingness to put him out there, but who knows? Maybe they catch lightning in a bottle. If he has a modicum of pocket presence and is willing to cut it loose, he's an immediate improvement over Brissett. Talent wins out. Polk has it on spades. If he clogs my roster, so be it. I would much rather have a guy that's already proven his ability to get open, but is stuck in a seemingly hopeless situation over a guy that's proven he can't do it, but happens to be rostered on a great team. Things change fast in the NFL. Bourne is not a threat to Polk. Stop that noise. Bourne is entering his 8th season in the NFL, coming off a torn ACL in the middle of last season. The most passes he's ever caught in a year was 55. The most yards, 800. Most TDs, 5. He's JAG.

I like Polk as well but I don’t think you realize just how bad their line is…and that was with David Andrews who may be out for the season…I could not disagree with you more about why you are worried about Maye…the Pats are in a bad spot and the only thing that would make it worse is if Maye gets hurt or gets the David Carr treatment because he cannot be protected…if their line was average I have no doubt he would be playing right now…as a Pats fan who is really excited about Maye (and I have been hearing nothing but good things about his development) I would love to see him playing but right now that would be irresponsible…he will play this year but they need to play the long game with him.

I do understand how bad they are, and I do like Maye, but you can't put your sports car in bubble wrap. You have to drive it. We're of different minds there and beyond coach speak I'm not exactly sure where the Patriots stand with Maye. I've heard many conflicting reports out of their camp.

Rookies are either going to get it, or they're not. Some get sacked a lot. Some throw a ton of INTs. Neither are really an indicator of future success. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and you're playing on borrowed time. It's crazy to me to sit a #3 overall pick when you're rolling Brissett out there. He's a team killer at this point, and might get Mayo a one and done if something doesn't change.

What happened to David Carr was an anomaly that may not ever be matched. The offense Dom tried to run with a rookie QB, no RB and an old line was criminal. Patriots are not that.

Brissett is a statue that holds the ball too long. Polk is getting wide open and Brissett can't find him, even on clean throws. He's been sacked 15 times in 4 games. Do you believe Maye would get sacked more or less?

Some rookies take their lumps and learn from it. Very few get beat up so bad they simply cannot continue like Carr. 76 sacks in a season is crazy, but Kyler Murray is 6th on the list with 48. Warren Moon cracked the top 10 with 47 and even Stroud found his way into the top 25 with 38.

 

[Boston]

It may change if Maye ever gets a shot, but I can't get excited about any of the Patriots pass catchers right now.

There is no reason to get excited about NE WRs in redraft leagues. Not even a little. Here are the combined weekly totals for the Pats WR receiving corps: (targets, catches, yards, TD)

Week 1: 13-8-66-0
Week 2: 5-3-19-1
Week 3: 14-10-84-0
Week 4: 17-8-57-0

The biggest issue is the OL, which has not allowed Brissett many good passing opportunities. Brissett ranks #1 in most pressures (50% of drop backs), 2nd in knockdowns, and 3rd in sacks. Their only lineman rated above average is Onwenu. Everyone else wouldn't be starting on another franchise. They've had multiple injuries, but the revolving door of linemen aren't any good, so it doesn't matter who plays or who doesn't.

Polk ranks 3rd in the league in separation win rate, but he's only been targeted 13 times in 4 games and currently ranks as the fantasy WR83. Kendrick Bourne is expected to come off the PUP list and start practicing this week, and I would expect he will become an integral part of the passing attack. I struggle to see how the Pats get Polk to be a regular fantasy producer (or any WR for that matter) this season. Their top ranked WR each week in PPR leagues has been:

Week 1: Osborn - 66
Week 2: Polk - 36
Week 3: Douglas - 26
Week 4: Polk - 65

The media talking heads rarely agree on anything, but they 100% agree that the Pats needed to draft an OT instead of Polk with the 37th pick in the draft.

As far as Maye goes, from the talking heads I have seen, there is no timeline to insert him as a starter. He may end up starting if Brissett gets knocked out. I know the narrative recently has been that he's getting 30% of the reps with starters, but that's misleading. Brissett has been leading the starting offense in practice. He's the one getting game specific reps, and the reps Maye has been getting are for plays that Jacoby already knows and doesn't need more practice on. Bottom line, there's a limited amount of plays Maye has been working with the starters in practice, and they haven't increased his participation as of yet. If there is any plan to get Maye ramped up to being the starter, I would say that's at least a month away . . . and that's only if they decide to ramp up his practice utilization and give him the premium reps and not just the leftovers. I know fans are getting on Mayo to start Maye, but I don't believe for a second that he is the one making that decision.

Brissett holds the ball too long. He always has. This trait will make offensive lines look much worse than they actually are. This trait amplifies deficiencies. I worry about Maye because of their unwillingness to put him out there, but who knows? Maybe they catch lightning in a bottle. If he has a modicum of pocket presence and is willing to cut it loose, he's an immediate improvement over Brissett. Talent wins out. Polk has it on spades. If he clogs my roster, so be it. I would much rather have a guy that's already proven his ability to get open, but is stuck in a seemingly hopeless situation over a guy that's proven he can't do it, but happens to be rostered on a great team. Things change fast in the NFL. Bourne is not a threat to Polk. Stop that noise. Bourne is entering his 8th season in the NFL, coming off a torn ACL in the middle of last season. The most passes he's ever caught in a year was 55. The most yards, 800. Most TDs, 5. He's JAG.

I like Polk as well but I don’t think you realize just how bad their line is…and that was with David Andrews who may be out for the season…I could not disagree with you more about why you are worried about Maye…the Pats are in a bad spot and the only thing that would make it worse is if Maye gets hurt or gets the David Carr treatment because he cannot be protected…if their line was average I have no doubt he would be playing right now…as a Pats fan who is really excited about Maye (and I have been hearing nothing but good things about his development) I would love to see him playing but right now that would be irresponsible…he will play this year but they need to play the long game with him.

I do understand how bad they are, and I do like Maye, but you can't put your sports car in bubble wrap. You have to drive it. We're of different minds there and beyond coach speak I'm not exactly sure where the Patriots stand with Maye. I've heard many conflicting reports out of their camp.

Rookies are either going to get it, or they're not. Some get sacked a lot. Some throw a ton of INTs. Neither are really an indicator of future success. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and you're playing on borrowed time. It's crazy to me to sit a #3 overall pick when you're rolling Brissett out there. He's a team killer at this point, and might get Mayo a one and done if something doesn't change.

What happened to David Carr was an anomaly that may not ever be matched. The offense Dom tried to run with a rookie QB, no RB and an old line was criminal. Patriots are not that.

Brissett is a statue that holds the ball too long. Polk is getting wide open and Brissett can't find him, even on clean throws. He's been sacked 15 times in 4 games. Do you believe Maye would get sacked more or less?

Some rookies take their lumps and learn from it. Very few get beat up so bad they simply cannot continue like Carr. 76 sacks in a season is crazy, but Kyler Murray is 6th on the list with 48. Warren Moon cracked the top 10 with 47 and even Stroud found his way into the top 25 with 38.

We will have to agree to disagree because I think we are seeing different things (and that was with David Andrews)...right now I don't know what Maye can learn by getting pummeled...Brissett is taking absolutely hellacious hits and it is just a matter of time before one puts him out...there is a difference between taking lumps and being put in an untenable situation...personally, I would like to see Maye play something like every third series and see how that goes and take it from there...the kid is 21 and the team is awful but if he is legit (and I feel good about him but that is me) they have a pathway forward but if they destroy/rush him this franchise takes a step backwards if that is possible...IMO it's just not worth the risk right now.

 

[Anarchy99]

Regardless of your thoughts on Bourne and his productivity, he's got 8 years of play in the league to back it up. It is what it is. I can think of very few receivers who have late career breakouts. Brandon Lloyd may be the only one that comes to mind off the top of my head.. Has Bourne been more productive with the Patriots than the 49ers? Yes. Is he a #1? I don't think so. Even with his "breakout" performance through 8 games last season, he still wasn't on pace for 1,000 yards. I stand by my comment, he's not an alpha, he's JAG and now he's got an ACL recovery to deal with. He's not even a year removed from blowing it out.

No NE WR is sniffing 1,000 yards this season. Bourne certainly won't seeing how he's already missed 4 games. That being said, here are guys that had their first 1,000 yard season in their 8th season and at 29 years old:

Brandon Lloyd, Stephone Paige, Troy Brown (9 + 30), Quinn Early (30), Brett Perriman (30), Frank Lewis (9 + 32), Ahmad Rashad (30), JT Smith (9 + 31), Ed McCaffrey (30), Bobby Engram (12 + 34)m Don Hutson, Eddie Kennison (9 +31), Charlie Joiner, Irving Fryer.

Guys that had their first 1,000-yard season at 29 (but prior to their 8th season): T,J. Houshmandzadeh, Tony Martin (30), and Drew Hill.

As far as Bourne goes, he will be taking some snaps and targets away from other players, and as currently constituted, there are hardly and WR targets in the first place. For better or for worse, he is there most experienced WR . . . if if he is old and recovering from a major injury.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

It may change if Maye ever gets a shot, but I can't get excited about any of the Patriots pass catchers right now.

There is no reason to get excited about NE WRs in redraft leagues. Not even a little. Here are the combined weekly totals for the Pats WR receiving corps: (targets, catches, yards, TD)

Week 1: 13-8-66-0
Week 2: 5-3-19-1
Week 3: 14-10-84-0
Week 4: 17-8-57-0

The biggest issue is the OL, which has not allowed Brissett many good passing opportunities. Brissett ranks #1 in most pressures (50% of drop backs), 2nd in knockdowns, and 3rd in sacks. Their only lineman rated above average is Onwenu. Everyone else wouldn't be starting on another franchise. They've had multiple injuries, but the revolving door of linemen aren't any good, so it doesn't matter who plays or who doesn't.

Polk ranks 3rd in the league in separation win rate, but he's only been targeted 13 times in 4 games and currently ranks as the fantasy WR83. Kendrick Bourne is expected to come off the PUP list and start practicing this week, and I would expect he will become an integral part of the passing attack. I struggle to see how the Pats get Polk to be a regular fantasy producer (or any WR for that matter) this season. Their top ranked WR each week in PPR leagues has been:

Week 1: Osborn - 66
Week 2: Polk - 36
Week 3: Douglas - 26
Week 4: Polk - 65

The media talking heads rarely agree on anything, but they 100% agree that the Pats needed to draft an OT instead of Polk with the 37th pick in the draft.

As far as Maye goes, from the talking heads I have seen, there is no timeline to insert him as a starter. He may end up starting if Brissett gets knocked out. I know the narrative recently has been that he's getting 30% of the reps with starters, but that's misleading. Brissett has been leading the starting offense in practice. He's the one getting game specific reps, and the reps Maye has been getting are for plays that Jacoby already knows and doesn't need more practice on. Bottom line, there's a limited amount of plays Maye has been working with the starters in practice, and they haven't increased his participation as of yet. If there is any plan to get Maye ramped up to being the starter, I would say that's at least a month away . . . and that's only if they decide to ramp up his practice utilization and give him the premium reps and not just the leftovers. I know fans are getting on Mayo to start Maye, but I don't believe for a second that he is the one making that decision.

Brissett holds the ball too long. He always has. This trait will make offensive lines look much worse than they actually are. This trait amplifies deficiencies. I worry about Maye because of their unwillingness to put him out there, but who knows? Maybe they catch lightning in a bottle. If he has a modicum of pocket presence and is willing to cut it loose, he's an immediate improvement over Brissett. Talent wins out. Polk has it on spades. If he clogs my roster, so be it. I would much rather have a guy that's already proven his ability to get open, but is stuck in a seemingly hopeless situation over a guy that's proven he can't do it, but happens to be rostered on a great team. Things change fast in the NFL. Bourne is not a threat to Polk. Stop that noise. Bourne is entering his 8th season in the NFL, coming off a torn ACL in the middle of last season. The most passes he's ever caught in a year was 55. The most yards, 800. Most TDs, 5. He's JAG.

I like Polk as well but I don’t think you realize just how bad their line is…and that was with David Andrews who may be out for the season…I could not disagree with you more about why you are worried about Maye…the Pats are in a bad spot and the only thing that would make it worse is if Maye gets hurt or gets the David Carr treatment because he cannot be protected…if their line was average I have no doubt he would be playing right now…as a Pats fan who is really excited about Maye (and I have been hearing nothing but good things about his development) I would love to see him playing but right now that would be irresponsible…he will play this year but they need to play the long game with him.

I do understand how bad they are, and I do like Maye, but you can't put your sports car in bubble wrap. You have to drive it. We're of different minds there and beyond coach speak I'm not exactly sure where the Patriots stand with Maye. I've heard many conflicting reports out of their camp.

Rookies are either going to get it, or they're not. Some get sacked a lot. Some throw a ton of INTs. Neither are really an indicator of future success. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and you're playing on borrowed time. It's crazy to me to sit a #3 overall pick when you're rolling Brissett out there. He's a team killer at this point, and might get Mayo a one and done if something doesn't change.

What happened to David Carr was an anomaly that may not ever be matched. The offense Dom tried to run with a rookie QB, no RB and an old line was criminal. Patriots are not that.

Brissett is a statue that holds the ball too long. Polk is getting wide open and Brissett can't find him, even on clean throws. He's been sacked 15 times in 4 games. Do you believe Maye would get sacked more or less?

Some rookies take their lumps and learn from it. Very few get beat up so bad they simply cannot continue like Carr. 76 sacks in a season is crazy, but Kyler Murray is 6th on the list with 48. Warren Moon cracked the top 10 with 47 and even Stroud found his way into the top 25 with 38.

We will have to agree to disagree because I think we are seeing different things (and that was with David Andrews)...right now I don't know what Maye can learn by getting pummeled...Brissett is taking absolutely hellacious hits and it is just a matter of time before one puts him out...there is a difference between taking lumps and being put in an untenable situation...personally, I would like to see Maye play something like every third series and see how that goes and take it from there...the kid is 21 and the team is awful but if he is legit (and I feel good about him but that is me) they have a pathway forward but if they destroy/rush him this franchise takes a step backwards if that is possible...IMO it's just not worth the risk right now.

That's kind of Jacoby's thing. He's a less mobile version of Joe Flacco with worse pre/post snap reads. He holds the ball too long. FWIW in his first full season with the Colts he took 52 sacks. That was his second year. That number would have ranked #5 on the all time list for rookies.

Do you want Maye to take hits? Of course not, but I'm also not sure he'll take all the hits JB is taking. There's also immeasurable experience gained by seeing NFL defenses first hands, pre and post snap.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

Regardless of your thoughts on Bourne and his productivity, he's got 8 years of play in the league to back it up. It is what it is. I can think of very few receivers who have late career breakouts. Brandon Lloyd may be the only one that comes to mind off the top of my head.. Has Bourne been more productive with the Patriots than the 49ers? Yes. Is he a #1? I don't think so. Even with his "breakout" performance through 8 games last season, he still wasn't on pace for 1,000 yards. I stand by my comment, he's not an alpha, he's JAG and now he's got an ACL recovery to deal with. He's not even a year removed from blowing it out.

No NE WR is sniffing 1,000 yards this season. Bourne certainly won't seeing how he's already missed 4 games. That being said, here are guys that had their first 1,000 yard season in their 8th season and at 29 years old:

Brandon Lloyd, Stephone Paige, Troy Brown (9 + 30), Quinn Early (30), Brett Perriman (30), Frank Lewis (9 + 32), Ahmad Rashad (30), JT Smith (9 + 31), Ed McCaffrey (30), Bobby Engram (12 + 34)m Don Hutson, Eddie Kennison (9 +31), Charlie Joiner, Irving Fryer.

Guys that had their first 1,000-yard season at 29 (but prior to their 8th season): T,J. Houshmandzadeh, Tony Martin (30), and Drew Hill.

As far as Bourne goes, he will be taking some snaps and targets away from other players, and as currently constituted, there are hardly and WR targets in the first place. For better or for worse, he is there most experienced WR . . . if if he is old and recovering from a major injury.

I didn't say anyone would hit 1,000 yards this year, did I? Polk might have done it last year in Bourne's role though...

I also stated Polk isn't startable right now FWIW.

 

[Boston]

It may change if Maye ever gets a shot, but I can't get excited about any of the Patriots pass catchers right now.

There is no reason to get excited about NE WRs in redraft leagues. Not even a little. Here are the combined weekly totals for the Pats WR receiving corps: (targets, catches, yards, TD)

Week 1: 13-8-66-0
Week 2: 5-3-19-1
Week 3: 14-10-84-0
Week 4: 17-8-57-0

The biggest issue is the OL, which has not allowed Brissett many good passing opportunities. Brissett ranks #1 in most pressures (50% of drop backs), 2nd in knockdowns, and 3rd in sacks. Their only lineman rated above average is Onwenu. Everyone else wouldn't be starting on another franchise. They've had multiple injuries, but the revolving door of linemen aren't any good, so it doesn't matter who plays or who doesn't.

Polk ranks 3rd in the league in separation win rate, but he's only been targeted 13 times in 4 games and currently ranks as the fantasy WR83. Kendrick Bourne is expected to come off the PUP list and start practicing this week, and I would expect he will become an integral part of the passing attack. I struggle to see how the Pats get Polk to be a regular fantasy producer (or any WR for that matter) this season. Their top ranked WR each week in PPR leagues has been:

Week 1: Osborn - 66
Week 2: Polk - 36
Week 3: Douglas - 26
Week 4: Polk - 65

The media talking heads rarely agree on anything, but they 100% agree that the Pats needed to draft an OT instead of Polk with the 37th pick in the draft.

As far as Maye goes, from the talking heads I have seen, there is no timeline to insert him as a starter. He may end up starting if Brissett gets knocked out. I know the narrative recently has been that he's getting 30% of the reps with starters, but that's misleading. Brissett has been leading the starting offense in practice. He's the one getting game specific reps, and the reps Maye has been getting are for plays that Jacoby already knows and doesn't need more practice on. Bottom line, there's a limited amount of plays Maye has been working with the starters in practice, and they haven't increased his participation as of yet. If there is any plan to get Maye ramped up to being the starter, I would say that's at least a month away . . . and that's only if they decide to ramp up his practice utilization and give him the premium reps and not just the leftovers. I know fans are getting on Mayo to start Maye, but I don't believe for a second that he is the one making that decision.

Brissett holds the ball too long. He always has. This trait will make offensive lines look much worse than they actually are. This trait amplifies deficiencies. I worry about Maye because of their unwillingness to put him out there, but who knows? Maybe they catch lightning in a bottle. If he has a modicum of pocket presence and is willing to cut it loose, he's an immediate improvement over Brissett. Talent wins out. Polk has it on spades. If he clogs my roster, so be it. I would much rather have a guy that's already proven his ability to get open, but is stuck in a seemingly hopeless situation over a guy that's proven he can't do it, but happens to be rostered on a great team. Things change fast in the NFL. Bourne is not a threat to Polk. Stop that noise. Bourne is entering his 8th season in the NFL, coming off a torn ACL in the middle of last season. The most passes he's ever caught in a year was 55. The most yards, 800. Most TDs, 5. He's JAG.

I like Polk as well but I don’t think you realize just how bad their line is…and that was with David Andrews who may be out for the season…I could not disagree with you more about why you are worried about Maye…the Pats are in a bad spot and the only thing that would make it worse is if Maye gets hurt or gets the David Carr treatment because he cannot be protected…if their line was average I have no doubt he would be playing right now…as a Pats fan who is really excited about Maye (and I have been hearing nothing but good things about his development) I would love to see him playing but right now that would be irresponsible…he will play this year but they need to play the long game with him.

I do understand how bad they are, and I do like Maye, but you can't put your sports car in bubble wrap. You have to drive it. We're of different minds there and beyond coach speak I'm not exactly sure where the Patriots stand with Maye. I've heard many conflicting reports out of their camp.

Rookies are either going to get it, or they're not. Some get sacked a lot. Some throw a ton of INTs. Neither are really an indicator of future success. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and you're playing on borrowed time. It's crazy to me to sit a #3 overall pick when you're rolling Brissett out there. He's a team killer at this point, and might get Mayo a one and done if something doesn't change.

What happened to David Carr was an anomaly that may not ever be matched. The offense Dom tried to run with a rookie QB, no RB and an old line was criminal. Patriots are not that.

Brissett is a statue that holds the ball too long. Polk is getting wide open and Brissett can't find him, even on clean throws. He's been sacked 15 times in 4 games. Do you believe Maye would get sacked more or less?

Some rookies take their lumps and learn from it. Very few get beat up so bad they simply cannot continue like Carr. 76 sacks in a season is crazy, but Kyler Murray is 6th on the list with 48. Warren Moon cracked the top 10 with 47 and even Stroud found his way into the top 25 with 38.

We will have to agree to disagree because I think we are seeing different things (and that was with David Andrews)...right now I don't know what Maye can learn by getting pummeled...Brissett is taking absolutely hellacious hits and it is just a matter of time before one puts him out...there is a difference between taking lumps and being put in an untenable situation...personally, I would like to see Maye play something like every third series and see how that goes and take it from there...the kid is 21 and the team is awful but if he is legit (and I feel good about him but that is me) they have a pathway forward but if they destroy/rush him this franchise takes a step backwards if that is possible...IMO it's just not worth the risk right now.

That's kind of Jacoby's thing. He's a less mobile version of Joe Flacco with worse pre/post snap reads. He holds the ball too long. FWIW in his first full season with the Colts he took 52 sacks. That was his second year. That number would have ranked #5 on the all time list for rookies.

Do you want Maye to take hits? Of course not, but I'm also not sure he'll take all the hits JB is taking. There's also immeasurable experience gained by seeing NFL defenses first hands, pre and post snap.

I don't disagree about Jacoby...I'm just telling you this O line is about as bad as you will get in the NFL (and as stated a few times...that was with David Andrews).

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

It may change if Maye ever gets a shot, but I can't get excited about any of the Patriots pass catchers right now.

There is no reason to get excited about NE WRs in redraft leagues. Not even a little. Here are the combined weekly totals for the Pats WR receiving corps: (targets, catches, yards, TD)

Week 1: 13-8-66-0
Week 2: 5-3-19-1
Week 3: 14-10-84-0
Week 4: 17-8-57-0

The biggest issue is the OL, which has not allowed Brissett many good passing opportunities. Brissett ranks #1 in most pressures (50% of drop backs), 2nd in knockdowns, and 3rd in sacks. Their only lineman rated above average is Onwenu. Everyone else wouldn't be starting on another franchise. They've had multiple injuries, but the revolving door of linemen aren't any good, so it doesn't matter who plays or who doesn't.

Polk ranks 3rd in the league in separation win rate, but he's only been targeted 13 times in 4 games and currently ranks as the fantasy WR83. Kendrick Bourne is expected to come off the PUP list and start practicing this week, and I would expect he will become an integral part of the passing attack. I struggle to see how the Pats get Polk to be a regular fantasy producer (or any WR for that matter) this season. Their top ranked WR each week in PPR leagues has been:

Week 1: Osborn - 66
Week 2: Polk - 36
Week 3: Douglas - 26
Week 4: Polk - 65

The media talking heads rarely agree on anything, but they 100% agree that the Pats needed to draft an OT instead of Polk with the 37th pick in the draft.

As far as Maye goes, from the talking heads I have seen, there is no timeline to insert him as a starter. He may end up starting if Brissett gets knocked out. I know the narrative recently has been that he's getting 30% of the reps with starters, but that's misleading. Brissett has been leading the starting offense in practice. He's the one getting game specific reps, and the reps Maye has been getting are for plays that Jacoby already knows and doesn't need more practice on. Bottom line, there's a limited amount of plays Maye has been working with the starters in practice, and they haven't increased his participation as of yet. If there is any plan to get Maye ramped up to being the starter, I would say that's at least a month away . . . and that's only if they decide to ramp up his practice utilization and give him the premium reps and not just the leftovers. I know fans are getting on Mayo to start Maye, but I don't believe for a second that he is the one making that decision.

Brissett holds the ball too long. He always has. This trait will make offensive lines look much worse than they actually are. This trait amplifies deficiencies. I worry about Maye because of their unwillingness to put him out there, but who knows? Maybe they catch lightning in a bottle. If he has a modicum of pocket presence and is willing to cut it loose, he's an immediate improvement over Brissett. Talent wins out. Polk has it on spades. If he clogs my roster, so be it. I would much rather have a guy that's already proven his ability to get open, but is stuck in a seemingly hopeless situation over a guy that's proven he can't do it, but happens to be rostered on a great team. Things change fast in the NFL. Bourne is not a threat to Polk. Stop that noise. Bourne is entering his 8th season in the NFL, coming off a torn ACL in the middle of last season. The most passes he's ever caught in a year was 55. The most yards, 800. Most TDs, 5. He's JAG.

I like Polk as well but I don’t think you realize just how bad their line is…and that was with David Andrews who may be out for the season…I could not disagree with you more about why you are worried about Maye…the Pats are in a bad spot and the only thing that would make it worse is if Maye gets hurt or gets the David Carr treatment because he cannot be protected…if their line was average I have no doubt he would be playing right now…as a Pats fan who is really excited about Maye (and I have been hearing nothing but good things about his development) I would love to see him playing but right now that would be irresponsible…he will play this year but they need to play the long game with him.

I do understand how bad they are, and I do like Maye, but you can't put your sports car in bubble wrap. You have to drive it. We're of different minds there and beyond coach speak I'm not exactly sure where the Patriots stand with Maye. I've heard many conflicting reports out of their camp.

Rookies are either going to get it, or they're not. Some get sacked a lot. Some throw a ton of INTs. Neither are really an indicator of future success. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and you're playing on borrowed time. It's crazy to me to sit a #3 overall pick when you're rolling Brissett out there. He's a team killer at this point, and might get Mayo a one and done if something doesn't change.

What happened to David Carr was an anomaly that may not ever be matched. The offense Dom tried to run with a rookie QB, no RB and an old line was criminal. Patriots are not that.

Brissett is a statue that holds the ball too long. Polk is getting wide open and Brissett can't find him, even on clean throws. He's been sacked 15 times in 4 games. Do you believe Maye would get sacked more or less?

Some rookies take their lumps and learn from it. Very few get beat up so bad they simply cannot continue like Carr. 76 sacks in a season is crazy, but Kyler Murray is 6th on the list with 48. Warren Moon cracked the top 10 with 47 and even Stroud found his way into the top 25 with 38.

We will have to agree to disagree because I think we are seeing different things (and that was with David Andrews)...right now I don't know what Maye can learn by getting pummeled...Brissett is taking absolutely hellacious hits and it is just a matter of time before one puts him out...there is a difference between taking lumps and being put in an untenable situation...personally, I would like to see Maye play something like every third series and see how that goes and take it from there...the kid is 21 and the team is awful but if he is legit (and I feel good about him but that is me) they have a pathway forward but if they destroy/rush him this franchise takes a step backwards if that is possible...IMO it's just not worth the risk right now.

That's kind of Jacoby's thing. He's a less mobile version of Joe Flacco with worse pre/post snap reads. He holds the ball too long. FWIW in his first full season with the Colts he took 52 sacks. That was his second year. That number would have ranked #5 on the all time list for rookies.

Do you want Maye to take hits? Of course not, but I'm also not sure he'll take all the hits JB is taking. There's also immeasurable experience gained by seeing NFL defenses first hands, pre and post snap.

I don't disagree about Jacoby...I'm just telling you this O line is about as bad as you will get in the NFL (and as stated a few times...that was with David Andrews).

The line is bad, really bad, I get it. There are ways to cover up some of those weaknesses with play-calling and QB play though. My point with Brissett is that his style of play magnifies those weaknesses. We don't know what Maye would do. He might pull a Manning and just start chucking up INTs to avoid hits. He might pull a Stroud and make his inexperienced WRs look like Terrel Owens. Who knows until we see it?

Don't forget, the Houston Texans offensive line was riddled with injuries in 2023. They lost their starting LG and C before the season even started and it didn't get better from there. Their offensive line suffered injuries all season long forcing them to shuffle guys around. Stroud faced tremendous pressure all season. I remember people were even concerned about throwing Stroud out there with such inexperienced and to that point unproductive WRs, especially with a decimated offensive line. Stroud, even being a mobile QB, took 38 sacks in 15 starts. That's a lot by any standard. Even so, we all know how his season and growth as a QB went. He's obviously the exception not the norm, but would he still be the same player today if he sat on the bench all last season because they team was worried about him getting hurt? Would Nico have become the player he's become? Who knows, but I think it's unlikely, especially the latter.

And I'll never forget the Broncos winning a championship with an absolutely putrid offensive line. They did it with short passing, a running game and tremendous pocket presence by the QB. Manning started 9 games that regular season and took 16 sacks. Osweiller took 23 sacks in 7 starts and Manning was about as immobile of a QB as you could find at that stage in his career. It's funny, Brock reminds me a lot of Brissett. Is Maye like Manning? Unfair to even mention them in the same breath at this stage, but you don't know what you have until you give your #3 pick a chance in live action. Manning was only sacked 22 times his rookie season, but he still holds the record for most INTs thrown in a single season by a rookie. Much of that is because he learned how to get the ball out quickly. He didn't like getting hit, and at first, that manifested in INTs thrown. Eventually, those pre-snap reads and quick hitters won him 2 Super Bowls. His early career experiences were invaluable.

 

[Boston]

Brissett holds the ball too long. He always has. This trait will make offensive lines look much worse than they actually are. This trait amplifies deficiencies. I worry about Maye because of their unwillingness to put him out there, but who knows? Maybe they catch lightning in a bottle. If he has a modicum of pocket presence and is willing to cut it loose, he's an immediate improvement over Brissett. Talent wins out. Polk has it on spades. If he clogs my roster, so be it. I would much rather have a guy that's already proven his ability to get open, but is stuck in a seemingly hopeless situation over a guy that's proven he can't do it, but happens to be rostered on a great team. Things change fast in the NFL. Bourne is not a threat to Polk. Stop that noise. Bourne is entering his 8th season in the NFL, coming off a torn ACL in the middle of last season. The most passes he's ever caught in a year was 55. The most yards, 800. Most TDs, 5. He's JAG.

I like Polk as well but I don’t think you realize just how bad their line is…and that was with David Andrews who may be out for the season…I could not disagree with you more about why you are worried about Maye…the Pats are in a bad spot and the only thing that would make it worse is if Maye gets hurt or gets the David Carr treatment because he cannot be protected…if their line was average I have no doubt he would be playing right now…as a Pats fan who is really excited about Maye (and I have been hearing nothing but good things about his development) I would love to see him playing but right now that would be irresponsible…he will play this year but they need to play the long game with him.

I do understand how bad they are, and I do like Maye, but you can't put your sports car in bubble wrap. You have to drive it. We're of different minds there and beyond coach speak I'm not exactly sure where the Patriots stand with Maye. I've heard many conflicting reports out of their camp.

Rookies are either going to get it, or they're not. Some get sacked a lot. Some throw a ton of INTs. Neither are really an indicator of future success. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and you're playing on borrowed time. It's crazy to me to sit a #3 overall pick when you're rolling Brissett out there. He's a team killer at this point, and might get Mayo a one and done if something doesn't change.

What happened to David Carr was an anomaly that may not ever be matched. The offense Dom tried to run with a rookie QB, no RB and an old line was criminal. Patriots are not that.

Brissett is a statue that holds the ball too long. Polk is getting wide open and Brissett can't find him, even on clean throws. He's been sacked 15 times in 4 games. Do you believe Maye would get sacked more or less?

Some rookies take their lumps and learn from it. Very few get beat up so bad they simply cannot continue like Carr. 76 sacks in a season is crazy, but Kyler Murray is 6th on the list with 48. Warren Moon cracked the top 10 with 47 and even Stroud found his way into the top 25 with 38.

We will have to agree to disagree because I think we are seeing different things (and that was with David Andrews)...right now I don't know what Maye can learn by getting pummeled...Brissett is taking absolutely hellacious hits and it is just a matter of time before one puts him out...there is a difference between taking lumps and being put in an untenable situation...personally, I would like to see Maye play something like every third series and see how that goes and take it from there...the kid is 21 and the team is awful but if he is legit (and I feel good about him but that is me) they have a pathway forward but if they destroy/rush him this franchise takes a step backwards if that is possible...IMO it's just not worth the risk right now.

That's kind of Jacoby's thing. He's a less mobile version of Joe Flacco with worse pre/post snap reads. He holds the ball too long. FWIW in his first full season with the Colts he took 52 sacks. That was his second year. That number would have ranked #5 on the all time list for rookies.

Do you want Maye to take hits? Of course not, but I'm also not sure he'll take all the hits JB is taking. There's also immeasurable experience gained by seeing NFL defenses first hands, pre and post snap.

I don't disagree about Jacoby...I'm just telling you this O line is about as bad as you will get in the NFL (and as stated a few times...that was with David Andrews).

The line is bad, really bad, I get it. There are ways to cover up some of those weaknesses with play-calling and QB play though. My point with Brissett is that his style of play magnifies those weaknesses. We don't know what Maye would do. He might pull a Manning and just start chucking up INTs to avoid hits. He might pull a Stroud and make his inexperienced WRs look like Terrel Owens. Who knows until we see it?

Don't forget, the Houston Texans offensive line was riddled with injuries in 2023. They lost their starting LG and C before the season even started and it didn't get better from there. Their offensive line suffered injuries all season long forcing them to shuffle guys around. Stroud faced tremendous pressure all season. I remember people were even concerned about throwing Stroud out there with such inexperienced and to that point unproductive WRs, especially with a decimated offensive line. Stroud, even being a mobile QB, took 38 sacks in 15 starts. That's a lot by any standard. Even so, we all know how his season and growth as a QB went. He's obviously the exception not the norm, but would he still be the same player today if he sat on the bench all last season because they team was worried about him getting hurt? Would Nico have become the player he's become? Who knows, but I think it's unlikely, especially the latter.

And I'll never forget the Broncos winning a championship with an absolutely putrid offensive line. They did it with short passing, a running game and tremendous pocket presence by the QB. Manning started 9 games that regular season and took 16 sacks. Osweiller took 23 sacks in 7 starts and Manning was about as immobile of a QB as you could find at that stage in his career. It's funny, Brock reminds me a lot of Brissett. Is Maye like Manning? Unfair to even mention them in the same breath at this stage, but you don't know what you have until you give your #3 pick a chance in live action. Manning was only sacked 22 times his rookie season, but he still holds the record for most INTs thrown in a single season by a rookie. Much of that is because he learned how to get the ball out quickly. He didn't like getting hit, and at first, that manifested in INTs thrown. Eventually, those pre-snap reads and quick hitters won him 2 Super Bowls. His early career experiences were invaluable.

I definitely don ‘t want to get into the comp game because it fits any narrative we want…would Mahomes be Mahomes if he didn’t sit a year and there can be zero doubt what patience did for Love…there many examples of what being thrown to the wolves can do with Bryce Young being the most recent…every situation is different and there is a very wide array of outcomes…from Peyton Manning and CJ Stroud to David Carr and Zack Wilson.

One thing I will add is Maye was perceived as a “raw” prospect when he was drafted…he just turned 22 in August, only played 2 years of college and in a system that I don’t think anyone thinks is overly pro-style (he was almost never under center) and it was pretty unanimous that his fundamentals needed some polish and reports are there have been some dramatic improvements with how he is currently being developed.…he was never drafted for this year…it was for the future and if the Pats screw up his development you are potentially looking at 5 years of ugliness…why risk it?

Question…have you watched all 4 of the Patriot games?

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

Brissett holds the ball too long. He always has. This trait will make offensive lines look much worse than they actually are. This trait amplifies deficiencies. I worry about Maye because of their unwillingness to put him out there, but who knows? Maybe they catch lightning in a bottle. If he has a modicum of pocket presence and is willing to cut it loose, he's an immediate improvement over Brissett. Talent wins out. Polk has it on spades. If he clogs my roster, so be it. I would much rather have a guy that's already proven his ability to get open, but is stuck in a seemingly hopeless situation over a guy that's proven he can't do it, but happens to be rostered on a great team. Things change fast in the NFL. Bourne is not a threat to Polk. Stop that noise. Bourne is entering his 8th season in the NFL, coming off a torn ACL in the middle of last season. The most passes he's ever caught in a year was 55. The most yards, 800. Most TDs, 5. He's JAG.

I like Polk as well but I don’t think you realize just how bad their line is…and that was with David Andrews who may be out for the season…I could not disagree with you more about why you are worried about Maye…the Pats are in a bad spot and the only thing that would make it worse is if Maye gets hurt or gets the David Carr treatment because he cannot be protected…if their line was average I have no doubt he would be playing right now…as a Pats fan who is really excited about Maye (and I have been hearing nothing but good things about his development) I would love to see him playing but right now that would be irresponsible…he will play this year but they need to play the long game with him.

I do understand how bad they are, and I do like Maye, but you can't put your sports car in bubble wrap. You have to drive it. We're of different minds there and beyond coach speak I'm not exactly sure where the Patriots stand with Maye. I've heard many conflicting reports out of their camp.

Rookies are either going to get it, or they're not. Some get sacked a lot. Some throw a ton of INTs. Neither are really an indicator of future success. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and you're playing on borrowed time. It's crazy to me to sit a #3 overall pick when you're rolling Brissett out there. He's a team killer at this point, and might get Mayo a one and done if something doesn't change.

What happened to David Carr was an anomaly that may not ever be matched. The offense Dom tried to run with a rookie QB, no RB and an old line was criminal. Patriots are not that.

Brissett is a statue that holds the ball too long. Polk is getting wide open and Brissett can't find him, even on clean throws. He's been sacked 15 times in 4 games. Do you believe Maye would get sacked more or less?

Some rookies take their lumps and learn from it. Very few get beat up so bad they simply cannot continue like Carr. 76 sacks in a season is crazy, but Kyler Murray is 6th on the list with 48. Warren Moon cracked the top 10 with 47 and even Stroud found his way into the top 25 with 38.

We will have to agree to disagree because I think we are seeing different things (and that was with David Andrews)...right now I don't know what Maye can learn by getting pummeled...Brissett is taking absolutely hellacious hits and it is just a matter of time before one puts him out...there is a difference between taking lumps and being put in an untenable situation...personally, I would like to see Maye play something like every third series and see how that goes and take it from there...the kid is 21 and the team is awful but if he is legit (and I feel good about him but that is me) they have a pathway forward but if they destroy/rush him this franchise takes a step backwards if that is possible...IMO it's just not worth the risk right now.

That's kind of Jacoby's thing. He's a less mobile version of Joe Flacco with worse pre/post snap reads. He holds the ball too long. FWIW in his first full season with the Colts he took 52 sacks. That was his second year. That number would have ranked #5 on the all time list for rookies.

Do you want Maye to take hits? Of course not, but I'm also not sure he'll take all the hits JB is taking. There's also immeasurable experience gained by seeing NFL defenses first hands, pre and post snap.

I don't disagree about Jacoby...I'm just telling you this O line is about as bad as you will get in the NFL (and as stated a few times...that was with David Andrews).

The line is bad, really bad, I get it. There are ways to cover up some of those weaknesses with play-calling and QB play though. My point with Brissett is that his style of play magnifies those weaknesses. We don't know what Maye would do. He might pull a Manning and just start chucking up INTs to avoid hits. He might pull a Stroud and make his inexperienced WRs look like Terrel Owens. Who knows until we see it?

Don't forget, the Houston Texans offensive line was riddled with injuries in 2023. They lost their starting LG and C before the season even started and it didn't get better from there. Their offensive line suffered injuries all season long forcing them to shuffle guys around. Stroud faced tremendous pressure all season. I remember people were even concerned about throwing Stroud out there with such inexperienced and to that point unproductive WRs, especially with a decimated offensive line. Stroud, even being a mobile QB, took 38 sacks in 15 starts. That's a lot by any standard. Even so, we all know how his season and growth as a QB went. He's obviously the exception not the norm, but would he still be the same player today if he sat on the bench all last season because they team was worried about him getting hurt? Would Nico have become the player he's become? Who knows, but I think it's unlikely, especially the latter.

And I'll never forget the Broncos winning a championship with an absolutely putrid offensive line. They did it with short passing, a running game and tremendous pocket presence by the QB. Manning started 9 games that regular season and took 16 sacks. Osweiller took 23 sacks in 7 starts and Manning was about as immobile of a QB as you could find at that stage in his career. It's funny, Brock reminds me a lot of Brissett. Is Maye like Manning? Unfair to even mention them in the same breath at this stage, but you don't know what you have until you give your #3 pick a chance in live action. Manning was only sacked 22 times his rookie season, but he still holds the record for most INTs thrown in a single season by a rookie. Much of that is because he learned how to get the ball out quickly. He didn't like getting hit, and at first, that manifested in INTs thrown. Eventually, those pre-snap reads and quick hitters won him 2 Super Bowls. His early career experiences were invaluable.

I definitely don ‘t want to get into the comp game because it fits any narrative we want…would Mahomes be Mahomes if he didn’t sit a year and there can be zero doubt what patience did for Love…there many examples of what being thrown to the wolves can do with Bryce Young being the most recent…every situation is different and there is a very wide array of outcomes…from Peyton Manning and CJ Stroud to David Carr and Zack Wilson.

One thing I will add is Maye was perceived as a “raw” prospect when he was drafted…he just turned 22 in August, only played 2 years of college and in a system that I don’t think anyone thinks is overly pro-style (he was almost never under center) and it was pretty unanimous that his fundamentals needed some polish and reports are there have been some dramatic improvements with how he is currently being developed.…he was never drafted for this year…it was for the future and if the Pats screw up his development you are potentially looking at 5 years of ugliness…why risk it?

Question…have you watched all 4 of the Patriot games?

So the belief is he's not ready, that's where I started, that's what I stated was my concern. That's fine and was my fear to begin with.

I'm not even sure why I'm arguing if Brissett or Maye should play anymore TBH, my original post here was only to highlight that Polk's usage radically increased in week 4 and he's most certainly talented. His separation for a rookie is absurd. He has great hands. He's an alpha #1 in the making. And like I said, things change fast in the NFL. It wouldn't surprise me if he blows up second half of the season. They really have something here.

I have not watched every Patriots game start to finish. I don't watch many games start to finish these days TBH. The constant officiating interruptions and commercials have become borderline unwatchable.

 

[rmccaul3]

Brissett holds the ball too long. He always has. This trait will make offensive lines look much worse than they actually are. This trait amplifies deficiencies. I worry about Maye because of their unwillingness to put him out there, but who knows? Maybe they catch lightning in a bottle. If he has a modicum of pocket presence and is willing to cut it loose, he's an immediate improvement over Brissett. Talent wins out. Polk has it on spades. If he clogs my roster, so be it. I would much rather have a guy that's already proven his ability to get open, but is stuck in a seemingly hopeless situation over a guy that's proven he can't do it, but happens to be rostered on a great team. Things change fast in the NFL. Bourne is not a threat to Polk. Stop that noise. Bourne is entering his 8th season in the NFL, coming off a torn ACL in the middle of last season. The most passes he's ever caught in a year was 55. The most yards, 800. Most TDs, 5. He's JAG.

I like Polk as well but I don’t think you realize just how bad their line is…and that was with David Andrews who may be out for the season…I could not disagree with you more about why you are worried about Maye…the Pats are in a bad spot and the only thing that would make it worse is if Maye gets hurt or gets the David Carr treatment because he cannot be protected…if their line was average I have no doubt he would be playing right now…as a Pats fan who is really excited about Maye (and I have been hearing nothing but good things about his development) I would love to see him playing but right now that would be irresponsible…he will play this year but they need to play the long game with him.

I do understand how bad they are, and I do like Maye, but you can't put your sports car in bubble wrap. You have to drive it. We're of different minds there and beyond coach speak I'm not exactly sure where the Patriots stand with Maye. I've heard many conflicting reports out of their camp.

Rookies are either going to get it, or they're not. Some get sacked a lot. Some throw a ton of INTs. Neither are really an indicator of future success. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and you're playing on borrowed time. It's crazy to me to sit a #3 overall pick when you're rolling Brissett out there. He's a team killer at this point, and might get Mayo a one and done if something doesn't change.

What happened to David Carr was an anomaly that may not ever be matched. The offense Dom tried to run with a rookie QB, no RB and an old line was criminal. Patriots are not that.

Brissett is a statue that holds the ball too long. Polk is getting wide open and Brissett can't find him, even on clean throws. He's been sacked 15 times in 4 games. Do you believe Maye would get sacked more or less?

Some rookies take their lumps and learn from it. Very few get beat up so bad they simply cannot continue like Carr. 76 sacks in a season is crazy, but Kyler Murray is 6th on the list with 48. Warren Moon cracked the top 10 with 47 and even Stroud found his way into the top 25 with 38.

We will have to agree to disagree because I think we are seeing different things (and that was with David Andrews)...right now I don't know what Maye can learn by getting pummeled...Brissett is taking absolutely hellacious hits and it is just a matter of time before one puts him out...there is a difference between taking lumps and being put in an untenable situation...personally, I would like to see Maye play something like every third series and see how that goes and take it from there...the kid is 21 and the team is awful but if he is legit (and I feel good about him but that is me) they have a pathway forward but if they destroy/rush him this franchise takes a step backwards if that is possible...IMO it's just not worth the risk right now.

That's kind of Jacoby's thing. He's a less mobile version of Joe Flacco with worse pre/post snap reads. He holds the ball too long. FWIW in his first full season with the Colts he took 52 sacks. That was his second year. That number would have ranked #5 on the all time list for rookies.

Do you want Maye to take hits? Of course not, but I'm also not sure he'll take all the hits JB is taking. There's also immeasurable experience gained by seeing NFL defenses first hands, pre and post snap.

I don't disagree about Jacoby...I'm just telling you this O line is about as bad as you will get in the NFL (and as stated a few times...that was with David Andrews).

The line is bad, really bad, I get it. There are ways to cover up some of those weaknesses with play-calling and QB play though. My point with Brissett is that his style of play magnifies those weaknesses. We don't know what Maye would do. He might pull a Manning and just start chucking up INTs to avoid hits. He might pull a Stroud and make his inexperienced WRs look like Terrel Owens. Who knows until we see it?

Don't forget, the Houston Texans offensive line was riddled with injuries in 2023. They lost their starting LG and C before the season even started and it didn't get better from there. Their offensive line suffered injuries all season long forcing them to shuffle guys around. Stroud faced tremendous pressure all season. I remember people were even concerned about throwing Stroud out there with such inexperienced and to that point unproductive WRs, especially with a decimated offensive line. Stroud, even being a mobile QB, took 38 sacks in 15 starts. That's a lot by any standard. Even so, we all know how his season and growth as a QB went. He's obviously the exception not the norm, but would he still be the same player today if he sat on the bench all last season because they team was worried about him getting hurt? Would Nico have become the player he's become? Who knows, but I think it's unlikely, especially the latter.

And I'll never forget the Broncos winning a championship with an absolutely putrid offensive line. They did it with short passing, a running game and tremendous pocket presence by the QB. Manning started 9 games that regular season and took 16 sacks. Osweiller took 23 sacks in 7 starts and Manning was about as immobile of a QB as you could find at that stage in his career. It's funny, Brock reminds me a lot of Brissett. Is Maye like Manning? Unfair to even mention them in the same breath at this stage, but you don't know what you have until you give your #3 pick a chance in live action. Manning was only sacked 22 times his rookie season, but he still holds the record for most INTs thrown in a single season by a rookie. Much of that is because he learned how to get the ball out quickly. He didn't like getting hit, and at first, that manifested in INTs thrown. Eventually, those pre-snap reads and quick hitters won him 2 Super Bowls. His early career experiences were invaluable.

I definitely don ‘t want to get into the comp game because it fits any narrative we want…would Mahomes be Mahomes if he didn’t sit a year and there can be zero doubt what patience did for Love…there many examples of what being thrown to the wolves can do with Bryce Young being the most recent…every situation is different and there is a very wide array of outcomes…from Peyton Manning and CJ Stroud to David Carr and Zack Wilson.

One thing I will add is Maye was perceived as a “raw” prospect when he was drafted…he just turned 22 in August, only played 2 years of college and in a system that I don’t think anyone thinks is overly pro-style (he was almost never under center) and it was pretty unanimous that his fundamentals needed some polish and reports are there have been some dramatic improvements with how he is currently being developed.…he was never drafted for this year…it was for the future and if the Pats screw up his development you are potentially looking at 5 years of ugliness…why risk it?

Question…have you watched all 4 of the Patriot games?

No one that has watched the Patriots games this season would suggest putting any rookie QB behind that line in order to get experience

Currently, the split working with the first team between Brissett and Maye is 70/30. Keep Maye off the field and increase that to 65/45 or 60/40. Thats all the experience he needs this year. Continue to lose this season, increasing draft capital and prioritize the OL in the draft.

 

[Boston]

The line is bad, really bad, I get it. There are ways to cover up some of those weaknesses with play-calling and QB play though. My point with Brissett is that his style of play magnifies those weaknesses. We don't know what Maye would do. He might pull a Manning and just start chucking up INTs to avoid hits. He might pull a Stroud and make his inexperienced WRs look like Terrel Owens. Who knows until we see it?

Don't forget, the Houston Texans offensive line was riddled with injuries in 2023. They lost their starting LG and C before the season even started and it didn't get better from there. Their offensive line suffered injuries all season long forcing them to shuffle guys around. Stroud faced tremendous pressure all season. I remember people were even concerned about throwing Stroud out there with such inexperienced and to that point unproductive WRs, especially with a decimated offensive line. Stroud, even being a mobile QB, took 38 sacks in 15 starts. That's a lot by any standard. Even so, we all know how his season and growth as a QB went. He's obviously the exception not the norm, but would he still be the same player today if he sat on the bench all last season because they team was worried about him getting hurt? Would Nico have become the player he's become? Who knows, but I think it's unlikely, especially the latter.

And I'll never forget the Broncos winning a championship with an absolutely putrid offensive line. They did it with short passing, a running game and tremendous pocket presence by the QB. Manning started 9 games that regular season and took 16 sacks. Osweiller took 23 sacks in 7 starts and Manning was about as immobile of a QB as you could find at that stage in his career. It's funny, Brock reminds me a lot of Brissett. Is Maye like Manning? Unfair to even mention them in the same breath at this stage, but you don't know what you have until you give your #3 pick a chance in live action. Manning was only sacked 22 times his rookie season, but he still holds the record for most INTs thrown in a single season by a rookie. Much of that is because he learned how to get the ball out quickly. He didn't like getting hit, and at first, that manifested in INTs thrown. Eventually, those pre-snap reads and quick hitters won him 2 Super Bowls. His early career experiences were invaluable.

I definitely don ‘t want to get into the comp game because it fits any narrative we want…would Mahomes be Mahomes if he didn’t sit a year and there can be zero doubt what patience did for Love…there many examples of what being thrown to the wolves can do with Bryce Young being the most recent…every situation is different and there is a very wide array of outcomes…from Peyton Manning and CJ Stroud to David Carr and Zack Wilson.

One thing I will add is Maye was perceived as a “raw” prospect when he was drafted…he just turned 22 in August, only played 2 years of college and in a system that I don’t think anyone thinks is overly pro-style (he was almost never under center) and it was pretty unanimous that his fundamentals needed some polish and reports are there have been some dramatic improvements with how he is currently being developed.…he was never drafted for this year…it was for the future and if the Pats screw up his development you are potentially looking at 5 years of ugliness…why risk it?

Question…have you watched all 4 of the Patriot games?

So the belief is he's not ready, that's where I started, that's what I stated was my concern. That's fine and was my fear to begin with.

I'm not even sure why I'm arguing if Brissett or Maye should play anymore TBH, my original post here was only to highlight that Polk's usage radically increased in week 4 and he's most certainly talented. His separation for a rookie is absurd. He has great hands. He's an alpha #1 in the making. And like I said, things change fast in the NFL. It wouldn't surprise me if he blows up second half of the season. They really have something here.

I have not watched every Patriots game start to finish. I don't watch many games start to finish these days TBH. The constant officiating interruptions and commercials have become borderline unwatchable.

That is not what I said...if the Pats O-line was functional I would be onboard with him playing...but it is as bad as it gets (which is why I asked if you watch their games) and the combo of a young, developing QB and a complete lack of protection has too much room for error....he will play this year but I don't think they want to expose him to too much punishment.

As for Polk...I like him, he looks the part...I hope you are right about him but I see him as a quality #2 (and I think right now the Pats view him that way which is way they went after Aiyuk)...unfortunately I don't see a scenario where he or any other Patriot WR blows up because of (do I need to say the line again)...Dynasty-wise I think he is worth targeting because I could see a big jump next year between Maye starting and the Pats finally addressing their line with high picks and/or free agents.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

Well I guess you don’t have to admit you made the wrong pick until you put him on the field.