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WR Jameson Williams, DET (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Dr. Klahn:
Take him to... Detroit!
CIA Agent:
No! No, not Detroit! No! No, please! Anything but that! No! No!
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Lucky the Rams weren't able to draft him.
Newscaster:
"Rams plagued by fumbles as earthquakes rock Los Angeles. Film at eleven."
Newscaster:
"Rams plagued by fumbles as earthquakes rock Los Angeles. Film at eleven."
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
He is already running straight line speed not that far from his playing speed. Key will be when he's healed enough to make those cuts and start/stops.
DropKick
Footballguy
Catholic High School Girls in Trouble was an eye catcher for a 16 year old boy I once knew.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I took him at 1.4 in one league as well. A bit of a rebuild team; so, I don’t mind if does not contribute that much this year. Like him long-term more than Burks, who went at 1.5.
The hype is going a bit out of control. He isn't that strong a prospect. The highest he would have gone without the injury was 8. Detroit really didn't discount him at all for the injury, which us not smart really.
foxco
Footballguy
I think he's a terrific prospect and he's my #1 WR (close with Wilson.) Don't see him doing a ton this year as he works his way back to form but I think he'll be a pro bowler.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
That game against Georgia still stands out. 184 yards & 2 TDs vs a defense that had 5 (five) players selected in the first round. Ignore at your own risk.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
He is a well-rounded, prototypical WR1 with ludicrous speed. The type of elite game speed that only a rare group of players can offer. And to Leroy Hoard's point, he absolutely torched some of the the best defenders in the country.
Without the ACL injury, he's a Ja'Marr Chase level prospect, top 5-10 in almost any draft.
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
Nah man. You've gone OTT here.
He's certainly a good prospect, but if he'd sat out his final year like Chase, he might not have even been drafted.
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
If he sat out his breakout year where he was the best wr in the country, of course his draft position would be radically different. Not sure your point here.
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
Just a couple of reasons why he is not a Chase level prospect, as claimed.
Chase was such a top prospect he didn't even need to play his final year to get top 5 capital in a strong class.
I am not sure he is DeVonta Smith level prospect. He is not a Chase level prospect. This ignores that he tore his ACL.
He is fast, but you guys are talking about him like a sub 4.3 guy. He is just normal WR in the NFL fast.
He was in Bama because he couldn't beat out the OSU guys
He is fast, but you guys are talking about him like a sub 4.3 guy. He is just normal WR in the NFL fast.
He was in Bama because he couldn't beat out the OSU guys
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
There is 4.3 speed in shorts at the combine and there is 4.3 game speed which guys like Chase, Hill, and Jameson can actually put down. I'm watching his tape, and he is leaving other 4.4 and 4.5 guys in the dust on the field during games. It's like he comes with a nitrous button for that final gear. And he does everything else well. I think he's one of the most promising NFL WR prospects that I've ever seen.
mcintyre1
Footballguy
We'll never know for sure because of the ACL tear, but I very much disagree. The way he just absolutely rips away from SEC / 1st round talent DBs is something I don't see very often at all. He's Tyreek Hill fast, IMO, all while being 6'2". And he's got the production to complement the speed, unlike a Ruggs type player.
Took him at 1.04 over every WR except Drake London. Wish I could have moved back a couple spots to grab him but didn't get much traction and just went with my guy.
Edit to add: to my eyes, he's significantly faster than guys like Olave or Wilson, who timed high 4.3's this year. If I knew how fast that Indy track was and the visual speed difference, I would have put money on him going under 4.3.
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TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Agree 100%. It's an impressive thing to run a 4.3 forty, fully rested, in shorts, and you've been training for weeks for that one moment. It's quite another thing to do it in the middle of a game, during the season, in pads, with 1st round defenders trying to chase you down.
mcintyre1
Footballguy
Agree to disagree on the speed I guess, though I know he was clocked via Alabama's GPS stuff at 23 mph in a game last year. For comparison, Tyreek Hill has the NFL record for hitting 23.24 mph on a kickoff return in 2016.
As for him not being able to beat out Olave/Wilson at Ohio State, doesn't concern me in the slightest. There's often more to college depth charts than pure talent, especially at recruiting factories like Ohio State. Hell, Joe Burrow couldn't beat out the murderers row of JT Barrett and Dwayne Haskins and look how that turned out.
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I forget who it was, but there was a panel of former college football coaches, and they were asked about how/why that happens, and the answer was basically once a guy wins a starting job in college, it doesn't matter how good the guy behind him is, they aren't taking the starting job unless the starter faceplants.mcintyre1 said:
They also tied it to recruiting, and the idea that if established guys are losing their jobs every year, its looked at as a negative for a recruit to go to that school, as they only have a limited time to put their resume for the NFL on tape. I'm not sure I see the logic totally there, in theory the best guy should always win out, but I'm also not a recruiter.
To add to your example, Devon Achane was stuck behind Isaiah Spiller at A&M, but is a FAR better player, and likely a future 1st round pick. Going back a few years, Kyler Murray wasn't able to beat out Kyle Allen at A&M either. Kyle Allen and 2 first round picks wouldn't get Kyler Murray in the NFL.
ffmail4me
Footballguy
I agree and decided on Wilson over Williams (was very back and forth) in one of my PPR best ball dynasty leagues. My logic was Williams price shouldn't shoot up if he starts the year on PUP where Wilson's easily could if he comes out of the gate balling. Guessing it will be easier to acquire Williams during the season than WilsonTripItUp said:
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
Got him at 6. Delighted.
Went for him over G Wilson.
Went for him over G Wilson.
Dez
Footballguy
Reading this thread was a big reason I just changed course and took Williams at 1.05 over Burks just now after sitting on the clock for 18 hours. Hope you guys are right. I took Reagor over Jefferson in a similar situation in 2020 when I debated both and let someone sway me into Reagor who was his #1 WR that class.
Hope you guys are right on Williams
Hope you guys are right on Williams
rockaction
Footballguy
Dez said:
The danger with Williams is if he's almost exclusively used as a deep threat with a quarterback that doesn't push the ball downfield. Or almost exclusively deployed that way while seeing two safeties high all of the time. Then you won't see much from him.
But I've got him as overall WR1 or WR2 in this class by my estimation, but my estimation is ####e, so take it all for what it's worth.
If it makes you feel better, I had Reagor as a DND that year, so maybe I'm on to something.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Ben Johnson is one of the best young creative minds in the game. Other coaches know, casuals do not. They know what they have in Jamo and how to unlock him. IMO - and sometimes I'm wrong lol.
I don't think he's going on the PUP, and expect him to be productive earlier than people think.
That said, Goff has no confidence in his ability to throw a deep ball. It's pathetic. 30th ranked deep ball passer in 2020, shortest ADoT last year. Recently I was reminded he threw the ball away on 4th down at least three times last year - that's how ####### hesitant he is to take shots. I don't blame him, dude doesn't have the fastball that is needed to make splash plays in today's NFL. They have surrounded him with so many weapons, he's like an older version of Tua. If he fails (I suspect he will), it won't be bc he didn't have enough talent around him.
A year ago the Lions had the worst WR room in the league at the start of the season. Now they have a great route runner who can also stretch the field (Jamo), terrific slot/possession receiver (Sun God), big X with great top end speed (Chark), and an above replacement level TE (Hock.) Josh Reynolds as WR4 is probably better than whoever they thought was their WR1 in September 2021.
But for all that, I won't be surprised if Swift leads all RBs in receptions. They have a top 5 offensive line (top 3 in pass pro), solid corps of playmakers, a defense that should be much improved. This is by far the best coaching staff I've ever seen; lot of (recently) former NFL guys who love to teach. That's a good thing when your roster has one guy over 30 and one other player over 27. It almost makes me a little nervous that so much of the media recognizes what is going on in the D. Like I don't want people to jinx it, and I'm totally not used to seeing a competent approach to roster building.
The culture in Allen Park is phenomenal. People love coming to work, the players are totally buying into their approach. They have a very clear of the type of player they want to be part of this thing. Sooner or later all those good feelings must translate into wins, but they certainly finished strong last year. Pretty amped about Hard Knocks and seeing these kids take a big step forward this fall.
I know, I know....optimism and the Lions, it's a surreal combination.
I don't think he's going on the PUP, and expect him to be productive earlier than people think.
That said, Goff has no confidence in his ability to throw a deep ball. It's pathetic. 30th ranked deep ball passer in 2020, shortest ADoT last year. Recently I was reminded he threw the ball away on 4th down at least three times last year - that's how ####### hesitant he is to take shots. I don't blame him, dude doesn't have the fastball that is needed to make splash plays in today's NFL. They have surrounded him with so many weapons, he's like an older version of Tua. If he fails (I suspect he will), it won't be bc he didn't have enough talent around him.
A year ago the Lions had the worst WR room in the league at the start of the season. Now they have a great route runner who can also stretch the field (Jamo), terrific slot/possession receiver (Sun God), big X with great top end speed (Chark), and an above replacement level TE (Hock.) Josh Reynolds as WR4 is probably better than whoever they thought was their WR1 in September 2021.
But for all that, I won't be surprised if Swift leads all RBs in receptions. They have a top 5 offensive line (top 3 in pass pro), solid corps of playmakers, a defense that should be much improved. This is by far the best coaching staff I've ever seen; lot of (recently) former NFL guys who love to teach. That's a good thing when your roster has one guy over 30 and one other player over 27. It almost makes me a little nervous that so much of the media recognizes what is going on in the D. Like I don't want people to jinx it, and I'm totally not used to seeing a competent approach to roster building.
The culture in Allen Park is phenomenal. People love coming to work, the players are totally buying into their approach. They have a very clear of the type of player they want to be part of this thing. Sooner or later all those good feelings must translate into wins, but they certainly finished strong last year. Pretty amped about Hard Knocks and seeing these kids take a big step forward this fall.
I know, I know....optimism and the Lions, it's a surreal combination.
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
My biggest concern isn't the injury or Goff (10 yard slants can still result in 30 yard YACs). It's that they now have a lot of decent targets to throw to.and you know they will still be running the ball a lot.
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Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Doesn't scare me at all. Not counting on production this year (obviously at some time he will produce), Goff won't be there next year IMO. From next year on though, it'll be worth taking the dive this year.
zamboni
Footballguy
Agreed - from a fantasy standpoint, love the talent, but the situation could have been better. While targets are earned, it's not like St. Brown, Hock, Chark and Swift aren't going to earn targets either. Very concerned about volume here for Williams even when he is 100%. Kind of Denver but without a top-notch QB situation.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
had two good upper class men already there? IDK
can’t read too much into transfer athletes who couldn’t get on the field at their first Power 5 school. not a reliable predictor of future success/failure.
how did Joe Burrow not dominate the B1G? etc
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Goff could make for a dirt cheap QB2 in a two QB league, but I'm more bullish on Detroit in real football than in fantasy this year.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Amon-Ra wins by finding the soft spot in the zone. He needs volume.
Hock was dominant to start the season until teams started covering him like a top receiving target. He can be good without huge volume but his upside is capped.
Chark was good until he got lazy. A lot of guys get lazy in Jacksonville. They aren't fun to play for. Chark is on a one year deal and has been working out with Goff. I expect him to play well especially the first half of the season.
Swift is a good receiver but they won't need to dump off to him as much. Expect his targets to go down some.
Jameson doesn't need 150 targets to do his damage. He'll be a high teens ypr guy. 90 targets, 55 catches could be 1000 yards or close to it, with a decent number going to the house.
zamboni
Footballguy
Fair points - playing in PPR leagues though, I always worry about lower volume guys that get much of their value from TDs and long plays.
bostonfred
Footballguy
I was talking about his path to fantasy relevance as a rookie. The hope is that he develops into the rare guy that gets volume and long touchdowns. I haven't drafted him yet but he's my favorite receiver in this class because i see that 80/1400/10 production in his range of outcomes.
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
Just because he's fast doesn't mean he's exclusively a deep threat either. Generally smart organizations (historically not the Lions for sure) don't invest a top 20 pick in a WR they intend to simply stretch the field.
He's a player you want to get the ball to. Everywhere and as much as possible. I don't think it's unreasonable to think he could be a regular 100 catch guy.
He's a player you want to get the ball to. Everywhere and as much as possible. I don't think it's unreasonable to think he could be a regular 100 catch guy.
TripItUp
Footballguy
Exactly, coaches are paid to win. You win by putting the ball in your best players' hands.
Williams is arguably the best offensive skill player in this draft, hard to see him not getting a heavy look this season once he's cleared to play.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
May projections don't mean a thing, but it's pretty amazing to think that among the range of outcomes, the Lions may have drafted the best defensive and the best offensive players of this draft.
