Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
WR Josh Gordon, KC (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Matt Waldman
- Start date
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Considering he was almost out of the league and considered a nonentity up until a surprise reinstatement, that would be a good haul.
Relapses are a part of rehab, and he's just beginning serious treatment.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
That's interesting. I don't know if I would move him for 1.10 even though it's a fine ROI getting him for min bid FABB. I think there's more hype to come and at this point I think I am swinging for the fences. I'd go 1.05, that gets me into the Penny/Harris/Kerryon Johnson tier.
Chaka
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Dismattle
Footballguy
Is it partly for the thrill of an early pick? I mean I believe most would agree Flash has real NFL level talent limited only by HC/QB
Hankmoody
Footballguy
RIsk mitigation. Gordon is about to go into a 4 month period away from football and he's still one drink, one puff away from being out for another 12+ months. It's pretty simple - the 1.10 is worth risking for Gordon's upside, but getting into the next tier at 1.05 isn't with where I see the rookie RB's right now. May end up being as strong as 2017 RB's which is pretty stunning.
Dismattle
Footballguy
Okay, I just guess because of my own experience drafting early round WR's combined with their longevity that I may have a slight bias. In some essence, it would be like discussing how last Season it may have been a trade for Mixon Owning Hill I just never had that warm fuzzy feeling for production in the organization
However I do see quite a demand for RB's appearing next Season So much so that it would probably be easier to list the Teams in need of a solid 3 down RB It might just be the lack of Teams that really feature a "bell cow" RB Its kinda like the odds of Rookie RB flashing out the gate combined with Coaches noticing such things as a lack of real breakaway speed or the power to get a two yd TD can sometimes lead to more drafts/trades the following Season
I see a Stud WR lined up w a legit QB for a Real OC and I just have trouble justifying a trade for such a back. Obviously, the Browns may not be able to provide the full potential. But IF they do or he's traded. Potential exists to land Bell or someone before all their market value starts diminishing to some managers For me personally I've felt the pain of riding a veteran RB until retirement and it hurt because my team wasn't really in contention for those yr's
Now assuming a solid Team and Gordon is perhaps your WR3 if not WR4 I imagine the appeal strengthens a bit because of the potential pitfall However w Stud WR's we always have the risk of injury to concern ourselves Bottom line I believe you may be correct in your perceived value I'm just perhaps being a bit too negative
I get why you would move him now due to what amounts to risk of him needing to remain clean for 9 months. I'd still not do it in general and would be even far less inclined to do it if I need a WR because this class looks about as good as last years at WR, which is not saying much.
That's an interesting way of looking at his value in relation to rookie WR's. Knowing what I know today the only rookie WR I'd take over him is Ridley and that's for the perceived safety. I say perceived because Ridley is unproven and to me lacks major Gordon type upside and he's only 3.5 years younger, just safe with respect to suspension risk. I'd take Gordon right now today over someone like Sutton. Depends what you think is riskier or has a greater chance of happening, Sutton developing into a stud NFL WR in a decent amount of time or Gordon not getting suspended again?
rockaction
Footballguy
Guys, I hate to break it to you, but Gordon is likely going to get suspended again. He's been dependent all his life. This stuff...just happens.
Dismattle
Footballguy
You saying that as if you know for fact that any other playa couldn't in all actuality be worse off as far as actual physical drug dependencies Better the Devil you know The Man you speak of appears to have kept hidden very little if any negative attributes to his Lifes endeavors Another man you choose could be taking steps not in the direction of a failed test but actual Timerockaction said:
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
[icon]
Insoxicated
This Dismattle dude is an odd duck... lot of strong opinions delivered via gibberish. Disregard.
Chaka
Footballguy
I continually fail to understand why some people are so focused upon, obsessed even, with negative outcomes.
We have enough cautionary tales, how about rooting for, and even openly speculating about a young guy actually having an honest-to-goodness redemption?
Give it a try, you may even enjoy it.
Last edited by a moderator:
He's no more than a flex option anyway. Does it really matter if he pees hot at this point? He was responsible for knocking many people out of their playoffs this year. He's become fantasy poison. All because of one good season a lifetime ago.
Last edited by a moderator:
Chaka
Footballguy
I would argue that it is amazing he has put up flex numbers (wr2 number going into last week) with Kizer as his QB and literally no PT in 3+ seasons. Dude is still epic.
With Darnold and a new HC he's gonna be in the conversation for top 3 WR with even more...wait for it... potential.
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
I can understand the people that have the mindset that he's an addict and he's going to relapse. It's certainly a possibility and he will carry that risk the rest of his career. what I don't get are the people that don't think he will be productive if he stays clean.
Slider
Footballguy
Gandalf
Footballguy
I’m rooting for him. Just know that relapse is part of the recovery process. Let’s hope he never relapses again.
Chaka
Footballguy
Glad to hear that. Of course I understand that relapse is possible, we all do. If you don't you you live on Mars and/or your name is @Soulfly3. I just don't think there is any reason to rehash the obvious. What isn't obvious is all the variables around him for QB & HC or even trade possibilities. Those are the fun things to speculate about.
But I absolutely want to see this kid turn his life around, it's got Hallmark Made-for-TV Christmas Story written all over it. Set your DVRs!
Gandalf
Footballguy
Me too! I hope he stays clean. One day at a time. It can happen. All Gordon has to realize - and it’s true - is that his life is better without the alcohol or drugs. The cure for this is actual simple. Stay sober. Josh you can do it!!
Chaka
Footballguy
Because you are focusing on the obvious caveat that has been hammered to death. I think you know that. We should have an automatic "If he stays clean" signature for every post in this thread. We get it, he's a risk. Accept it and move on.
Gandalf
Footballguy
Or trade him for a less risky asset
Because you are focusing on the obvious caveat that has been hammered to death. I think you know that. We should have an automatic "If he stays clean" signature for every post in this thread. We get it, he's a risk. Accept it and move on.
Check out Deandre Hopkins' numbers with crap QBs like Tom Savage and TJ Yates. Great receivers create space and can also win 50/50 balls. Gordon was once great. He flashed big-time in 2013. He was average in 2014 and average again(or maybe below average) this year. Years of alcohol and drugs can effect you physically. He got worse every game. I don't think Kizer did.
Chaka
Footballguy
You're being obtuse, intentionally I imagine, and not nearly so clever as you think. His likelihood to relapse is a binary situation, either he does or he does not. If he does relapse he's done in the NFL, end of discussion. If he doesn't there are a world of variables to consider as the off-season progresses.
Because you are focusing on the obvious upside that has been hammered to death. I think you know that. We should have an automatic "He could be top 3 or better if QB if coach change" signature for every post in this thread. We get it, he has upside. Now move on.
If you want to actually discuss things germane to what happens on the field I would love to hear your speculation, after all you do value him as a top 10 WR. If all you want to do is remind everyone of potential downside that we all acknowledge and understand then...enjoy?
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
Do you think there is a material difference between Hopkins practicing with Savage for two seasons (and for this entire off season with Savage as the presumptive starter) and having not missed 3+ seasons of football?
In your opinion would Hopkins come back from that situation and perform at the level he has this season?
Chaka
Footballguy
I see you left out Osweiler as a QB that Hopkins could do well with and for good reason since Deandre Hopkins was WR41 in PPG in 2016, Gordon WR43 in PPG this year and he averaged about one fantasy point per game less than Hopkins did last year.
Osweiler was better than any QB throwing a pass to Gordon this year.
Back when Gordon was good, he succeeded with guys like Brian Hoyer and Brandon Weeden. He used to be a special talent. Drugs, alcohol, and time away obviously made his skills erode. He now needs a good quarterback to keep from getting 2-19-0 games. In 2013, there was no needs for lousy QB excuses.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
This schtick is cute... if you're four.
Because you are focusing on the obvious upside that has been hammered to death. I think you know that. We should have an automatic "He could be top 3 or better if QB if coach change" signature for every post in this thread. We get it, he has upside. Now move on.
Pretty close to where you have him. I had mentioned in a previous post if I was ranking him among rookie WR's he'd be #2 right now, after Ridley who I'm not gaga over and ranking him as top WR is more how I think about this class.
A little early yet for me to do the rankings set but around 6-7 sounds close but I tend to team build on dynasty teams more than value build. What that means is based on team I might value him a little more or less.
If I needed a RB badly and was good at WR I'd deal him for 6-7 today. Not really any less until I saw how things shook out but that's a trade I'd look at today if the caveats fit.
If I'm good at RB and/or thin WR I'd not deal him for 6-7, or even 5, not now anyway.
I got him on a team where I'm loaded at RB and I consider him my WR4 in terms of dynasty value. I would value him more on that kind of a team because I don't really need anything and in a case like that I'd prefer to have....wait for it...wait for it....upside.
So in summary WR2 among rookies and that sounds about right for that pick 6/7 range but what I'd actually do is team specific .
I know he's a risk, I'm a risk taker, the kind of guy who trades proven players for unproven rookies if I believe in them but I also contend drafting any rookie is a bit of a risk since we don't know how they translate and especially so with WR.
