WR Josh Gordon, KC (6 Viewers)

[Bronx Bomber]

He should argue he was smoking under duress, that someone was holding him at gun point with a "shotgun." That's why he's saying it was second hand since he never would have touched it. (Sarcasm)

On a serious note, let's say the league gives him a little break and since he was "just over" the limit for weed and "just over" the limit for the DUI. Lets say they make this all just one offense instead of two. How would that leave his standing on the stages program? Or do we still not know where he was previously?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

A league I'm in just drafted (way way early this year), and Gordon went undrafted. Is he worth a pick up and see what happens?

Hell yes. I've believed all along that Gordon was in Stage III when he got busted for smoking pot this time, and will serve a year suspension for it. But even though the first two things on that list are true I'd still roster the guy if I could do it for nothing. Stranger things have happened.

 

[cdubz]

He should argue he was smoking under duress, that someone was holding him at gun point with a "shotgun." That's why he's saying it was second hand since he never would have touched it. (Sarcasm)

On a serious note, let's say the league gives him a little break and since he was "just over" the limit for weed and "just over" the limit for the DUI. Lets say they make this all just one offense instead of two. How would that leave his standing on the stages program? Or do we still not know where he was previously?

He is already in stage 3 according to recent reports, which would jive with possible 1-year suspension. He will stay there for rest of career, which means pissing clean 10x a month.

 

[wadegarrett]

Why Josh Gordon's chances of avoiding an indefinite suspension have greatly improved

Jul 30, 2014

Tony Grossi

ESPNCleveland.com

Game on: The “secondhand smoke” strategy employed by the camp of Browns receiver Josh Gordon in its appeal of a possible NFL drug suspension is the legal equivalent of a “Hail Mary” pass.

But recent events mostly unrelated to the Gordon case have acted like penalties against, in this case, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, and have moved the line of scrimmage closer to the end zone.

What once looked like a foregone conclusion – an indefinite suspension of repeat-offender Gordon, first reported on May 9 by ESPN.com – may not be so cut and dried now.

On Wednesday, Mike Florio of profootballtalk.com reported that Gordon’s one positive drug test for marijuana among at least 70 given him through the NFL substance abuse program was barely above the NFL concentration limit of 15 nanograms per milliliter. How barely? How about by one nanogram – one billionth of a gram!

Standard procedure in NFL drug testing is to divide a urine sample into two bottles and test both. Florio reported that Gordon’s “A” bottle tested at 16 ng/ml and the “B” bottle registered a 13.6, which is below the NFL threshold for a positive test.

Taken together, the average of 14.8 ng/ml would be below the positive test threshold of 15.0. But one of the questionable facets of the seriously flawed NFL substance abuse policy essentially states that the “B” bottle must simply show the existence of the tested substance to confirm the “A” bottle result.

Later on Monday, Adam Schefter reported for ESPN that Gordon’s legal team will argue that the lower reading of the two test results support their argument that Gordon was the victim of breathing in secondhand marijuana smoke and that he should not be suspended at all.

A perfect storm: The precise details contained in both reports suggest, to me, that the Gordon camp headed by agent Drew Rosenhaus and hired-gun lawyer Maurice Suh has elected to take Gordon’s case to the court of public opinion to pressure the under-fire Goodell into showing leniency on Gordon.

The strategy, I believe, is rooted in a perfect storm of events that have made it laughably unjust to give Gordon a minimum one-year ban for barely flunking a test for marijuana – even if the players-approved drug program mandates it.

These are the events that may be working strongly in Gordon’s favor:

1. There is an ongoing tug of war between the NFL and players union on the issue of testing for Human Growth Hormone, an easy-to-mask performance-enhancing drug that some believe is prevalent in the sport. Reportedly, the players would agree to it in exchange for loosening the threshold on marijuana testing – something many think is long overdue. Two states have legalized the use of marijuana and a year ago the World Anti-Doping Agency increased its marijuana threshold from 15 ng/ml to 150 ng/ml.

2. Everyone is waiting to see if Goodell will be as tough on Colts owner Jim Irsay as he has been in disciplining players. Irsay was arrested in March on a misdemeanor charge of driving while intoxicated and four felony counts of possession of prescription pills -- a controlled substance. Goodell’s discipline of Irsay is under the microscope because he has said that owners should be held to a higher standard than players.

3. Goodell has been excoriated inside and outside the NFL for an insanely lenient suspension of two games of Baltimore Ravens running back Ray Rice for a physical altercation with his then-fiancée in February. A video of the incident showed Rice dragging the seemingly unconscious victim, now his wife, from an Atlantic City, NJ, casino hotel elevator. Rice pleaded not guilty to a third-degree charge of aggravated assault. He avoided trial through a pretrial intervention program in May. Public outcry has intensified over the league’s insensitivity to the issue of domestic abuse. Goodell has not commented on Rice’s discipline.

All of which has characterized the league’s uneven system of justice as an abysmal failure in need of a total overhaul.

Ball in the air: Does Gordon deserve a minimum one-year suspension for barely testing positive for marijuana? As a multiple offender and participant in Stage Three of the NFL’s shady substance abuse program, the answer is yes.

(Gordon may also be disciplined in the future for a DUI violation in Raleigh, NC, on July 5.)

Rules are rules and these ones were collectively bargained by the players union and league management. In many cases, the league simply treats multiple offenders of drug violations more harshly than serious criminals.

Gordon’s appeal hearing is scheduled for Friday in New York. Goodell may not even be in attendance; he is expected to be in Canton for Pro Football Hall of Fame Enshrinement Weekend festivities. Even so, Goodell will be the one to rule on Gordon’s appeal and his decision is final, per terms of the substance abuse policy approved by the players.

There are larger issues at stake here for the NFL, such as the waning integrity of a discipline system careening out of control.

In the court of the NFL, which, critics say, places Goodell as judge, jury and executioner, Gordon’s strategy indeed appears to be a last-ditch Hail Mary pass.

But on the field, you would not doubt the chances of the supremely athletic Gordon coming down with such a pass, would you?

 

[KellysHeroes]

Even if it was 2nd hand smoke (which I don't believe) you have to be a special kind of idiot to continue to hangout with this type of behavior when u know your multimillion dollar contract is on line.

 

[werdnoynek]

Even if it was 2nd hand smoke (which I don't believe) you have to be a special kind of idiot to continue to hangout with this type of behavior when u know your multimillion dollar contract is on line.

In his culture, I imagine it's hard to find people who do not smoke marijuana.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Even if it was 2nd hand smoke (which I don't believe) you have to be a special kind of idiot to continue to hangout with this type of behavior when u know your multimillion dollar contract is on line.

That's where I am too. Don't believe him, but even if it's true -- and he hung around an enclosed space for hours with a bunch of dudes getting high -- he's an idiot.

 

[Sabertooth]

He should argue he was smoking under duress, that someone was holding him at gun point with a "shotgun." That's why he's saying it was second hand since he never would have touched it. (Sarcasm)

On a serious note, let's say the league gives him a little break and since he was "just over" the limit for weed and "just over" the limit for the DUI. Lets say they make this all just one offense instead of two. How would that leave his standing on the stages program? Or do we still not know where he was previously?

He is already in stage 3 according to recent reports, which would jive with possible 1-year suspension. He will stay there for rest of career, which means pissing clean 10x a month.

unless they change something in the next CBa.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

He should argue he was smoking under duress, that someone was holding him at gun point with a "shotgun." That's why he's saying it was second hand since he never would have touched it. (Sarcasm)

On a serious note, let's say the league gives him a little break and since he was "just over" the limit for weed and "just over" the limit for the DUI. Lets say they make this all just one offense instead of two. How would that leave his standing on the stages program? Or do we still not know where he was previously?

He is already in stage 3 according to recent reports, which would jive with possible 1-year suspension. He will stay there for rest of career, which means pissing clean 10x a month.

unless they change something in the next CBa.

Yeah, that's a possibility. So a 2020 return looks likely.

 

[jurb26]

Even if it was 2nd hand smoke (which I don't believe) you have to be a special kind of idiot to continue to hangout with this type of behavior when u know your multimillion dollar contract is on line.

In his culture, I imagine it's hard to find people who do not smoke marijuana.

That maybe so, but he has too. He can smoke as much pot as he wants in 10 years after his career. If his friends really cared about him, they'd tell him so much as well. He's got more to lose than them. He's got a history and needs to behave with more caution than the average football player. It is what it is. He's a fool for not understanding that.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

He can smoke as much pot as he wants in 10 years

He could smoke as much pot as he wants right now if he had been able to quit for a few weeks in advance of the well-telegraphed annual test the NFL gives in order to pretend it cares about drugs.

As Ryan Clark said, the test isn't designed to stop people from using drugs -- it's used to find idiots. (Paraphrasing)

 

[jurb26]

He can smoke as much pot as he wants in 10 years

He could smoke as much pot as he wants right now if he had been able to quit for a few weeks in advance of the well-telegraphed annual test the NFL gives in order to pretend it cares about drugs.As Ryan Clark said, the test isn't designed to stop people from using drugs -- it's used to find idiots. (Paraphrasing)

Yes, this is true.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

He should argue he was smoking under duress, that someone was holding him at gun point with a "shotgun." That's why he's saying it was second hand since he never would have touched it. (Sarcasm)

On a serious note, let's say the league gives him a little break and since he was "just over" the limit for weed and "just over" the limit for the DUI. Lets say they make this all just one offense instead of two. How would that leave his standing on the stages program? Or do we still not know where he was previously?

He is already in stage 3 according to recent reports, which would jive with possible 1-year suspension. He will stay there for rest of career, which means pissing clean 10x a month.

So this test that's being debated isn't the same one that we thought he skipped, which put him into stage three? Either way Goddell still has the weed in the car and the DUI right? If he really wants to suspend him indefinitely doesn't he still have enough ammo? I'm starting to get a feeling Rodger is wanting to set the tone and make an example and the evidence won't matter too much. Kind of like teaching. When the the class is acting out you have to sometimes pick someone that is the loudest and most obvious and make an example.

 

[JFS171]

He should argue he was smoking under duress, that someone was holding him at gun point with a "shotgun." That's why he's saying it was second hand since he never would have touched it. (Sarcasm)

On a serious note, let's say the league gives him a little break and since he was "just over" the limit for weed and "just over" the limit for the DUI. Lets say they make this all just one offense instead of two. How would that leave his standing on the stages program? Or do we still not know where he was previously?

He is already in stage 3 according to recent reports, which would jive with possible 1-year suspension. He will stay there for rest of career, which means pissing clean 10x a month.

So this test that's being debated isn't the same one that we thought he skipped, which put him into stage three?Either way Goddell still has the weed in the car and the DUI right? If he really wants to suspend him indefinitely doesn't he still have enough ammo? I'm starting to get a feeling Rodger is wanting to set the tone and make an example and the evidence won't matter too much. Kind of like teaching. When the the class is acting out you have to sometimes pick someone that is the loudest and most obvious and make an example.

I don't believe, under the CBA, Goodell is allowed to consider the DUI as evidence or substantiation for punishment in the appeal of his drug policy suspension. He could turn around and suspend him after all this is over for violation of personal conduct policy for the DUI, however.

 

[Chaka]

Even if it was 2nd hand smoke (which I don't believe) you have to be a special kind of idiot to continue to hangout with this type of behavior when u know your multimillion dollar contract is on line.

I understand this argument and it is made all the time by bystanders and is much easier to say in a vacuum from the comfort of your keyboard. In reality is walking away from the people you have been friends with for most of your life that easy to accomplish? Many will say "Yes, absolutely! No problem. I would do X, Y & Z in his situation." That doesn't ring true because none of us have been anywhere close to Gordon's situation (unless there are some athletes here were close to the best in the world at what they did. Anyone?)

Yes I understand that Gordon and his friends should all be making better decisions but I guarantee you that most, if not all, of us were not the best decision makers when we were 22 years old and many of us were downright morons who felt invincible and untouchable. Given a couple million dollars and all the athletic talent in the world? Yeah I don't think those are shoes that any of us have walked in so we can't say how easy it is to just stop hanging out with your friends.

And if he does just walk away, what does he walk towards? Anyone know anything about his family? Are they involved in his life? Who becomes his new friends? His new support group? Are there so many well intentioned people out there who really want to be his friend or a bunch of sponges who want to ride his coat tails?

These things are not just as easy as flipping a switch regardless of the stakes.

 

[karmarooster]

He can smoke as much pot as he wants in 10 years

He could smoke as much pot as he wants right now if he had been able to quit for a few weeks in advance of the well-telegraphed annual test the NFL gives in order to pretend it cares about drugs.As Ryan Clark said, the test isn't designed to stop people from using drugs -- it's used to find idiots. (Paraphrasing)

Yes, this is true.

Kind of like how the war on drugs isn't design to stop people from using drugs -- it's used to find black and brown people and put them in jail. Hilarious, right?

 

[Holy Schneikes]

I don't know if 2nd hand smoke can cause those test results or not. Some people say no chance some people say absolutely. But just like many have said there is a reason the NFL's threshold is set where it is, there are also reasons other groups' thresh-holds are set where THEY are, and most of them seem to be much higher even in organizations where a positive test is frankly much more meaningful. So if 15 is the number that says 99.99% this guy took a direct hit, why are do other groups use 25 or 50 or 150 or whatever? That doesn't make sense to me. As for the the very anecdotal "You'd have to be sitting in a closet" etc, how much airflow is there in a car, where there was very likely to have been some exposure in (one way or the other).

So two questions:

Is it possible to test at those levels if he was sitting in a car where other people were smoking (without smoking himself)?

Should that count as a positive?

What there is NO question about, is that this was dumb and avoidable. Your boys want to light up? "Great, do your thing, but I'll catch you later cuz I'm in stage two fellas."

 

[Kevrunner]

Seems that Gordon's claim of second hand smoke loss some of it's value when he was caught recently speeding and his passenger was smoking weed. It for the slight chance Gordon never smoked and only tested positive because of second hand smoke, he should never put himself into a position where he is even breathing in second hand smoke after that, it isn't hard to do if you want to. If his friends are blazing up in front of him, then they aren't his friends and he needs to see that. Gordon is the one that has put himself in this position. I'm given him a 10% chance of playing this year, the most I would pay for him in a dynasty today is a future 2nd round pick, don't think a savvy owner would take that price, might as well roll the dice now if you own him because there is a chance he beats this. He isn't a Justin Blackmon who seems to care less about playing in the NFL.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/07/post_186.html

This sounds a worse than most reportings.

Browns wide receiver Josh Gordon "didn't smoke marijuana and was exposed to second-hand smoke on the day of his test," a source told Northeast Ohio Media Group on Tuesday.

But the NFL has heard the "second-hand smoke'' defense before -- and no player has ever won his appeal on those grounds.

"You are responsible for what is in your body,'' NFL spokesman Greg Aiello told cleveland.com in an email response. "That has always been a

cornerstone of our drug-testing programs.''

When players in the NFL are drug-screened, two different tests are used. Gordon measured 38 nanograms per milliliter of THC on the immunoassay test, above the NFL's threshold of 20, the source said. Most other sports organizations have a 50 cutoff or higher to avoid second-hand smoke issue, the source said.

The second test involves an "A" sample and "B'' sample. If the "A'' sample is above the NFL threshold of 15 nanograms for this particular test, the "B'' sample is tested to confirm it. The source said Gordon measured 16 nanograms on the "A'' sample, just one above the NFL's threshold. He measured 13.63 nanograms on the "B'' sample, below the NFL cutoff.

 

[NJ]

I don't believe, under the CBA, Goodell is allowed to consider the DUI as evidence or substantiation for punishment in the appeal of his drug policy suspension. He could turn around and suspend him after all this is over for violation of personal conduct policy for the DUI, however.

I always thought DUI was handled under the personal conduct policy as well, but Mike Florio was on SiriusXM NFL radio this morning and he said some stuff that directly contradicted that saying that the DUI is actually handled under the leagues substance abuse policy however the way he described it is that it falls under a different track than the failed drug tests. So in terms of the DUI, its considered a first offense and you're not supposed to be suspended for the first offense of DUI, however he said there is a provision in the substance abuse policy that allows them to consider the players history in the substance abuse program and suspend a player for a first offense of DUI if it is warranted so it seems he could still be suspended for the DUI, however he also said that would not happen unless he's convicted of DUI and he said many times when a person is just over the legal limit it gets pleaded down to careless driving, etc. so he could easily dodge that bullet as well.

Florio did say that they are not supposed to use the DUI against Gordon when considering his appeal for the failed drug test, however he said its obvious that anyone hearing the appeal will already know about the DUI and the riding in the car with the dude with weed, etc. and that type of stuff could consciously or subconsciously have some weight on the decision even though it shouldn't.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Even if it was 2nd hand smoke (which I don't believe) you have to be a special kind of idiot to continue to hangout with this type of behavior when u know your multimillion dollar contract is on line.

I understand this argument and it is made all the time by bystanders and is much easier to say in a vacuum from the comfort of your keyboard. In reality is walking away from the people you have been friends with for most of your life that easy to accomplish? Many will say "Yes, absolutely! No problem. I would do X, Y & Z in his situation." That doesn't ring true because none of us have been anywhere close to Gordon's situation (unless there are some athletes here were close to the best in the world at what they did. Anyone?)Yes I understand that Gordon and his friends should all be making better decisions but I guarantee you that most, if not all, of us were not the best decision makers when we were 22 years old and many of us were downright morons who felt invincible and untouchable. Given a couple million dollars and all the athletic talent in the world? Yeah I don't think those are shoes that any of us have walked in so we can't say how easy it is to just stop hanging out with your friends.

And if he does just walk away, what does he walk towards? Anyone know anything about his family? Are they involved in his life? Who becomes his new friends? His new support group? Are there so many well intentioned people out there who really want to be his friend or a bunch of sponges who want to ride his coat tails?

These things are not just as easy as flipping a switch regardless of the stakes.

Agree with the substance of your post, but in reality, he doesn't need to completely walk away from his friends at all. A simple "hey man, could you go out in the garage to smoke that, I've got a lot at stake here" or "put that away until we get to the party" would avoid the second hand smoke issue entirely. It's not that hard. And that's assuming you buy the whole "second hand" excuse in the first place -- which I personally don't at all.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Standard procedure in NFL drug testing is to divide a urine sample into two bottles and test both. Florio reported that Gordon’s “A” bottle tested at 16 ng/ml and the “B” bottle registered a 13.6, which is below the NFL threshold for a positive test.

Taken together, the average of 14.8 ng/ml would be below the positive test threshold of 15.0. But one of the questionable facets of the seriously flawed NFL substance abuse policy essentially states that the “B” bottle must simply show the existence of the tested substance to confirm the “A” bottle result.

While it's still possible he gets off altogether, or the suspension is reduced, this part is a strike against those arguing that the variations between the two samples is an issue that can be attacked. That last line above shows that the potential variations it's addressed within the policy.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Even if it was 2nd hand smoke (which I don't believe) you have to be a special kind of idiot to continue to hangout with this type of behavior when u know your multimillion dollar contract is on line.

In his culture, I imagine it's hard to find people who do not smoke marijuana.

That maybe so, but he has too. He can smoke as much pot as he wants in 10 years after his career. If his friends really cared about him, they'd tell him so much as well. He's got more to lose than them. He's got a history and needs to behave with more caution than the average football player. It is what it is. He's a fool for not understanding that.

Sure, he wouldn't be dissing his friends by going to another room or taking a walk outside when they decided it was time to smoke. It would be easy for him to avoid putting himself in a bad place if he wanted to.

 

[Chaka]

Even if it was 2nd hand smoke (which I don't believe) you have to be a special kind of idiot to continue to hangout with this type of behavior when u know your multimillion dollar contract is on line.

I understand this argument and it is made all the time by bystanders and is much easier to say in a vacuum from the comfort of your keyboard. In reality is walking away from the people you have been friends with for most of your life that easy to accomplish? Many will say "Yes, absolutely! No problem. I would do X, Y & Z in his situation." That doesn't ring true because none of us have been anywhere close to Gordon's situation (unless there are some athletes here were close to the best in the world at what they did. Anyone?)Yes I understand that Gordon and his friends should all be making better decisions but I guarantee you that most, if not all, of us were not the best decision makers when we were 22 years old and many of us were downright morons who felt invincible and untouchable. Given a couple million dollars and all the athletic talent in the world? Yeah I don't think those are shoes that any of us have walked in so we can't say how easy it is to just stop hanging out with your friends.

And if he does just walk away, what does he walk towards? Anyone know anything about his family? Are they involved in his life? Who becomes his new friends? His new support group? Are there so many well intentioned people out there who really want to be his friend or a bunch of sponges who want to ride his coat tails?

These things are not just as easy as flipping a switch regardless of the stakes.

Agree with the substance of your post, but in reality, he doesn't need to completely walk away from his friends at all. A simple "hey man, could you go out in the garage to smoke that, I've got a lot at stake here" or "put that away until we get to the party" would avoid the second hand smoke issue entirely. It's not that hard. And that's assuming you buy the whole "second hand" excuse in the first place -- which I personally don't at all.

Absolutely true and I agree.

 

[Proust Loves Cake]

Standard procedure in NFL drug testing is to divide a urine sample into two bottles and test both. Florio reported that Gordon’s “A” bottle tested at 16 ng/ml and the “B” bottle registered a 13.6, which is below the NFL threshold for a positive test.

Taken together, the average of 14.8 ng/ml would be below the positive test threshold of 15.0. But one of the questionable facets of the seriously flawed NFL substance abuse policy essentially states that the “B” bottle must simply show the existence of the tested substance to confirm the “A” bottle result.

While it's still possible he gets off altogether, or the suspension is reduced, this part is a strike against those arguing that the variations between the two samples is an issue that can be attacked. That last line above shows that the potential variations it's addressed within the policy.

Say what you want about bottle A, bottle B, the merits/demerits of the current drug testing regime, the wisdom/idiocy of criminalizing marijuana, etc. Bottom line, he tested positive for marijuana. That's all that matters right now for Gordon. And he will receive a year suspension and have to apply for reinstatement next year. Which means he has to stay clean for a full year. Good luck with that.

 

[Touchdown There]

Either way Goddell still has the weed in the car and the DUI right? If he really wants to suspend him indefinitely doesn't he still have enough ammo? I'm starting to get a feeling Rodger is wanting to set the tone and make an example and the evidence won't matter too much. Kind of like teaching. When the the class is acting out you have to sometimes pick someone that is the loudest and most obvious and make an example.

I agree with this. Even if he wins this one, I think he is still out for the season on the possession + DUI arrest. No chance he wins both.

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

Standard procedure in NFL drug testing is to divide a urine sample into two bottles and test both. Florio reported that Gordons A bottle tested at 16 ng/ml and the B bottle registered a 13.6, which is below the NFL threshold for a positive test.

Taken together, the average of 14.8 ng/ml would be below the positive test threshold of 15.0. But one of the questionable facets of the seriously flawed NFL substance abuse policy essentially states that the B bottle must simply show the existence of the tested substance to confirm the A bottle result.

While it's still possible he gets off altogether, or the suspension is reduced, this part is a strike against those arguing that the variations between the two samples is an issue that can be attacked. That last line above shows that the potential variations it's addressed within the policy.

Say what you want about bottle A, bottle B, the merits/demerits of the current drug testing regime, the wisdom/idiocy of criminalizing marijuana, etc. Bottom line, he tested positive for marijuana. That's all that matters right now for Gordon. And he will receive a year suspension and have to apply for reinstatement next year. Which means he has to stay clean for a full year. Good luck with that.

Glad that's cleared up. Let's skip the hearing Friday.

 

[Ojaays]

Either way Goddell still has the weed in the car and the DUI right? If he really wants to suspend him indefinitely doesn't he still have enough ammo? I'm starting to get a feeling Rodger is wanting to set the tone and make an example and the evidence won't matter too much. Kind of like teaching. When the the class is acting out you have to sometimes pick someone that is the loudest and most obvious and make an example.

I agree with this. Even if he wins this one, I think he is still out for the season on the possession + DUI arrest. No chance he wins both.

The problem with that is:

He didn't posses anything, and, the DWI hasn't been adjudicated yet and may well go away thru good lawyering.

 

[Sabertooth]

Going to be a fun Friday. I for one hope he skates or gets 8 games. I am fully prepared for him to miss the season and am viewing him as a luxury at this point though. I am not selling at a cut rate because I think his talent means he is not done in the NFL. He's a rare talent. Just as good as anyone in the NFL not named Calvin. The only 23 year old close to him is Randall Cobb and he isn't that close.

So now we wait and see. It's kind of like the die has been cast and those of us who own him are just in limbo now.

But there isn't any need to get confrontational with one another. I was called a small mind for stating that his numbers are right up there with Randy Moss. I don't see the need to do stuff like that.

Gordon will get suspended or he won't. He's done in the league or he isn't. Doesn't make anybody arguing the merits of either side any less smart or important on the boards here. We are all just trying to make our opinions heard and they all have some validity. But the tool factor is just raging out of control here. I can agree that somebody makes a valid point and still disagree with their conclusion.

My point is that the NFL has a long and storied history of having one set of rules for stars and another for JAGs. I think Gordon is a star. I think by some slight of hand he gets less than a full season. Now hope is probably influencing that quite a bit and I'm ok with that. But I don't think that makes me small minded. I think the people that are screaming about how it should be fair are being naive. Life isn't fair. If it was, we'd all be living the life we wanted and get rewarded monetarily for coaching t-ball and being great husbands and dads.

Rules are rules is great in theory. But how can you believe that when you live in a country that has been at war for 13 years and yet has never declared war as mandated by law? Rules simply aren't that black and white.

 

[Proust Loves Cake]

Standard procedure in NFL drug testing is to divide a urine sample into two bottles and test both. Florio reported that Gordons A bottle tested at 16 ng/ml and the B bottle registered a 13.6, which is below the NFL threshold for a positive test.

Taken together, the average of 14.8 ng/ml would be below the positive test threshold of 15.0. But one of the questionable facets of the seriously flawed NFL substance abuse policy essentially states that the B bottle must simply show the existence of the tested substance to confirm the A bottle result.

While it's still possible he gets off altogether, or the suspension is reduced, this part is a strike against those arguing that the variations between the two samples is an issue that can be attacked. That last line above shows that the potential variations it's addressed within the policy.

Say what you want about bottle A, bottle B, the merits/demerits of the current drug testing regime, the wisdom/idiocy of criminalizing marijuana, etc. Bottom line, he tested positive for marijuana. That's all that matters right now for Gordon. And he will receive a year suspension and have to apply for reinstatement next year. Which means he has to stay clean for a full year. Good luck with that.

Glad that's cleared up. Let's skip the hearing Friday.

He has a right to appeal, which involves a meeting where he and his lawyer can gerryrig all sorts of crazy interpretations. That's his right. But, cutting through the b.s., it should be pretty straight-forward what happens after that.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Who actually hears the appeal...an arbitrator?.......Is Goodell present?

 

[JFS171]

Going to be a fun Friday. I for one hope he skates or gets 8 games. I am fully prepared for him to miss the season and am viewing him as a luxury at this point though. I am not selling at a cut rate because I think his talent means he is not done in the NFL. He's a rare talent. Just as good as anyone in the NFL not named Calvin. The only 23 year old close to him is Randall Cobb and he isn't that close.

So now we wait and see. It's kind of like the die has been cast and those of us who own him are just in limbo now.

But there isn't any need to get confrontational with one another. I was called a small mind for stating that his numbers are right up there with Randy Moss. I don't see the need to do stuff like that.

Gordon will get suspended or he won't. He's done in the league or he isn't. Doesn't make anybody arguing the merits of either side any less smart or important on the boards here. We are all just trying to make our opinions heard and they all have some validity. But the tool factor is just raging out of control here. I can agree that somebody makes a valid point and still disagree with their conclusion.

My point is that the NFL has a long and storied history of having one set of rules for stars and another for JAGs. I think Gordon is a star. I think by some slight of hand he gets less than a full season. Now hope is probably influencing that quite a bit and I'm ok with that. But I don't think that makes me small minded. I think the people that are screaming about how it should be fair are being naive. Life isn't fair. If it was, we'd all be living the life we wanted and get rewarded monetarily for coaching t-ball and being great husbands and dads.

Rules are rules is great in theory. But how can you believe that when you live in a country that has been at war for 13 years and yet has never declared war as mandated by law? Rules simply aren't that black and white.

For the most part I agree with this... pardon the cliche, but there's enough smoke here to make me think they'll find some way to cut it down to 4 or 8 games. In redraft, I'd take that plunge. In dynasty I've tried to buy actually... not even for pennies on the dollar... more like dimes, but still a significant discount. The talent is enormous and proven... to me that's worth the 50/50 shot of a mid-range player in the mid-late 2nd. Now I still wouldn't give a first for him or any player I was counting on in the upcoming season, but I'm willing to take the risk.

HOWEVER, if I was an owner or am able to buy low... I'm probably looking to sell once that value comes back later this year (assuming reduced suspension) and he starts lighting up the scoreboard. Not sure how likely it is he plays for another 3-5+ years in stage III. He may not even make it to 2015 without being hit again... at which point he's pretty much worthless.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Who actually hears the appeal...an arbitrator?.......Is Goodell present?

Goodell makes the decision. I've read that he's not going to be present for the appeal itself d/t the HOF inductions. That seems to indicate that he already knows what he's going to do. I'm sure the "second hand" defense has been tried and the low threshold has been challenged before -- probably by every player busted for weed.

 

[MattFancy]

Ok so here's a question, what about his recent DUI arrest? Will that come into play if his suspension is reduced? So even if he somehow gets off for this latest drug test, would he face any suspension for the DUI?

 

[CentralPA]

Even if it was 2nd hand smoke (which I don't believe) you have to be a special kind of idiot to continue to hangout with this type of behavior when u know your multimillion dollar contract is on line.

I understand this argument and it is made all the time by bystanders and is much easier to say in a vacuum from the comfort of your keyboard. In reality is walking away from the people you have been friends with for most of your life that easy to accomplish? Many will say "Yes, absolutely! No problem. I would do X, Y & Z in his situation." That doesn't ring true because none of us have been anywhere close to Gordon's situation (unless there are some athletes here were close to the best in the world at what they did. Anyone?)

Yes I understand that Gordon and his friends should all be making better decisions but I guarantee you that most, if not all, of us were not the best decision makers when we were 22 years old and many of us were downright morons who felt invincible and untouchable. Given a couple million dollars and all the athletic talent in the world? Yeah I don't think those are shoes that any of us have walked in so we can't say how easy it is to just stop hanging out with your friends.

And if he does just walk away, what does he walk towards? Anyone know anything about his family? Are they involved in his life? Who becomes his new friends? His new support group? Are there so many well intentioned people out there who really want to be his friend or a bunch of sponges who want to ride his coat tails?

These things are not just as easy as flipping a switch regardless of the stakes.

I absolutely agree with you. But, couldn't he had just simply told his friends "Guys...mind not sparking that in here, I could get flagged"?

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Ok so here's a question, what about his recent DUI arrest? Will that come into play if his suspension is reduced? So even if he somehow gets off for this latest drug test, would he face any suspension for the DUI?

IMO that will likely be handled officially after the legal process plays out -- maybe next season? It does probably make Goodell less sympathetic to any "poor Josh" stuff on the appeal, though, IMO. He could also be suspended under the personal conduct policy for the passenger having a bag of weed in his car, even in the absence of charges or a conviction, but that seems hugely unlikely to me. Again though, the pattern of behavior here doesn't exactly set the table for a sympathetic reaction by the league on his appeal. I'd also be pretty worried, personally, that there might be another (+) test coming down the pipeline, as it seems pretty outrageous to believe that Gordon wasn't hitting whatever the other guys in his car were passing around when he got stopped for speeding, given the history.

 

[Sabertooth]

Going to be a fun Friday. I for one hope he skates or gets 8 games. I am fully prepared for him to miss the season and am viewing him as a luxury at this point though. I am not selling at a cut rate because I think his talent means he is not done in the NFL. He's a rare talent. Just as good as anyone in the NFL not named Calvin. The only 23 year old close to him is Randall Cobb and he isn't that close.

So now we wait and see. It's kind of like the die has been cast and those of us who own him are just in limbo now.

But there isn't any need to get confrontational with one another. I was called a small mind for stating that his numbers are right up there with Randy Moss. I don't see the need to do stuff like that.

Gordon will get suspended or he won't. He's done in the league or he isn't. Doesn't make anybody arguing the merits of either side any less smart or important on the boards here. We are all just trying to make our opinions heard and they all have some validity. But the tool factor is just raging out of control here. I can agree that somebody makes a valid point and still disagree with their conclusion.

My point is that the NFL has a long and storied history of having one set of rules for stars and another for JAGs. I think Gordon is a star. I think by some slight of hand he gets less than a full season. Now hope is probably influencing that quite a bit and I'm ok with that. But I don't think that makes me small minded. I think the people that are screaming about how it should be fair are being naive. Life isn't fair. If it was, we'd all be living the life we wanted and get rewarded monetarily for coaching t-ball and being great husbands and dads.

Rules are rules is great in theory. But how can you believe that when you live in a country that has been at war for 13 years and yet has never declared war as mandated by law? Rules simply aren't that black and white.

For the most part I agree with this... pardon the cliche, but there's enough smoke here to make me think they'll find some way to cut it down to 4 or 8 games. In redraft, I'd take that plunge. In dynasty I've tried to buy actually... not even for pennies on the dollar... more like dimes, but still a significant discount. The talent is enormous and proven... to me that's worth the 50/50 shot of a mid-range player in the mid-late 2nd. Now I still wouldn't give a first for him or any player I was counting on in the upcoming season, but I'm willing to take the risk.

HOWEVER, if I was an owner or am able to buy low... I'm probably looking to sell once that value comes back later this year (assuming reduced suspension) and he starts lighting up the scoreboard. Not sure how likely it is he plays for another 3-5+ years in stage III. He may not even make it to 2015 without being hit again... at which point he's pretty much worthless.

Exactly. Once his value rebounds, I'd look to cash out. If I see sites like DLF and FBG rating him as a top 4 or 5 wideout again, I'm going to try to extract that value. He's always going to be a character risk. And worse, he's a risk for a lifetime ban. I'd sell him for a shot at a top player (1st round pick) - I'm not selling him for a lesser shot at a middling player (2nd round pick). Not until he's banned for life.

 

[Peak]

Who actually hears the appeal...an arbitrator?.......Is Goodell present?

Goodell makes the decision. I've read that he's not going to be present for the appeal itself d/t the HOF inductions. That seems to indicate that he already knows what he's going to do. I'm sure the "second hand" defense has been tried and the low threshold has been challenged before -- probably by every player busted for weed.

The player has a right to a fair appeal process, correct? How can there be an appeal hearing if the judge/jury/executioner isn't present to hear the case? I can't believe Goodell would schedule the appeal on a day when he will be out of town. Even if he already made up his mind, he still needs to go through the process, correct?

 

[CentralPA]

Who actually hears the appeal...an arbitrator?.......Is Goodell present?

Goodell makes the decision. I've read that he's not going to be present for the appeal itself d/t the HOF inductions. That seems to indicate that he already knows what he's going to do. I'm sure the "second hand" defense has been tried and the low threshold has been challenged before -- probably by every player busted for weed.

The player has a right to a fair appeal process, correct? How can there be an appeal hearing if the judge/jury/executioner isn't present to hear the case? I can't believe Goodell would schedule the appeal on a day when he will be out of town. Even if he already made up his mind, he still needs to go through the process, correct?

This is the court of the NFL, not federal court. I think the league appoints an arbitrator to give the "yay" or "ney", I don't think this has anything to do with Goodell's decision as it probably has already been made. So he probably doesn't really need to be there anyways. But I don't know for sure.

 

[karmarooster]

Going to be a fun Friday. I for one hope he skates or gets 8 games. I am fully prepared for him to miss the season and am viewing him as a luxury at this point though. I am not selling at a cut rate because I think his talent means he is not done in the NFL. He's a rare talent. Just as good as anyone in the NFL not named Calvin. The only 23 year old close to him is Randall Cobb and he isn't that close.

So now we wait and see. It's kind of like the die has been cast and those of us who own him are just in limbo now.

But there isn't any need to get confrontational with one another. I was called a small mind for stating that his numbers are right up there with Randy Moss. I don't see the need to do stuff like that.

Gordon will get suspended or he won't. He's done in the league or he isn't. Doesn't make anybody arguing the merits of either side any less smart or important on the boards here. We are all just trying to make our opinions heard and they all have some validity. But the tool factor is just raging out of control here. I can agree that somebody makes a valid point and still disagree with their conclusion.

My point is that the NFL has a long and storied history of having one set of rules for stars and another for JAGs. I think Gordon is a star. I think by some slight of hand he gets less than a full season. Now hope is probably influencing that quite a bit and I'm ok with that. But I don't think that makes me small minded. I think the people that are screaming about how it should be fair are being naive. Life isn't fair. If it was, we'd all be living the life we wanted and get rewarded monetarily for coaching t-ball and being great husbands and dads.

Rules are rules is great in theory. But how can you believe that when you live in a country that has been at war for 13 years and yet has never declared war as mandated by law? Rules simply aren't that black and white.

For the most part I agree with this... pardon the cliche, but there's enough smoke here to make me think they'll find some way to cut it down to 4 or 8 games. In redraft, I'd take that plunge. In dynasty I've tried to buy actually... not even for pennies on the dollar... more like dimes, but still a significant discount. The talent is enormous and proven... to me that's worth the 50/50 shot of a mid-range player in the mid-late 2nd. Now I still wouldn't give a first for him or any player I was counting on in the upcoming season, but I'm willing to take the risk.

HOWEVER, if I was an owner or am able to buy low... I'm probably looking to sell once that value comes back later this year (assuming reduced suspension) and he starts lighting up the scoreboard. Not sure how likely it is he plays for another 3-5+ years in stage III. He may not even make it to 2015 without being hit again... at which point he's pretty much worthless.

Exactly. Once his value rebounds, I'd look to cash out. If I see sites like DLF and FBG rating him as a top 4 or 5 wideout again, I'm going to try to extract that value. He's always going to be a character risk. And worse, he's a risk for a lifetime ban. I'd sell him for a shot at a top player (1st round pick) - I'm not selling him for a lesser shot at a middling player (2nd round pick). Not until he's banned for life.

Crabtree?

 

[cstu]

Regarding the second hand smoke issue:

But the NFL has heard the "second-hand smoke'' defense before -- and no player has ever won his appeal on those grounds.

"You are responsible for what is in your body,'' NFL spokesman Greg Aiello told cleveland.com in an email response. "That has always been a cornerstone of our drug-testing programs.''

 

[Sabertooth]

Not a big fan of Crabtree. But that's the ballpark and the best offer I've gotten is a 2015 2nd rounder (albeit probably a pretty high second rounder).

I don't think I'd enjoy the feeling of giving him away for a 2nd round pick that probably won't pan out NEXT year. If Gordon does come back - he's going to be a stud. That simple.

If he doesn't, I leave him on IR and churn the roster a bit. I'd rather roll the dice on a Top 5 overall dynasty player than a 2nd rounder player that will be lucky to be a WR2 or WR3 on my roster.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Ok so here's a question, what about his recent DUI arrest? Will that come into play if his suspension is reduced? So even if he somehow gets off for this latest drug test, would he face any suspension for the DUI?

Not immediately, if at all. It could influence his appeal, even if technically it shouldn't.

 

[amnesiac]

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/07/post_186.html

This sounds a worse than most reportings.

When players in the NFL are drug-screened, two different tests are used. Gordon measured 38 nanograms per milliliter of THC on the immunoassay test, above the NFL's threshold of 20, the source said.

i missed this part the first time i read the article.

as a Browns fan, i was starting to get my hopes up a bit, but this seems pretty cut and dried, doesn't it?

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Who actually hears the appeal...an arbitrator?.......Is Goodell present?

Goodell makes the decision. I've read that he's not going to be present for the appeal itself d/t the HOF inductions. That seems to indicate that he already knows what he's going to do. I'm sure the "second hand" defense has been tried and the low threshold has been challenged before -- probably by every player busted for weed.

The player has a right to a fair appeal process, correct? How can there be an appeal hearing if the judge/jury/executioner isn't present to hear the case? I can't believe Goodell would schedule the appeal on a day when he will be out of town. Even if he already made up his mind, he still needs to go through the process, correct?

I think the league can do pretty much whatever they want here -- but yeah, in a vacuum it really doesn't seem too fair that the guy making the decision might not even be at the appeal.

The entire substance abuse and personal conduct policies are ridiculous IMO, but they're what the league and the NFLPA agreed to, so things are probably pretty unlikely to change until we get a new CBA in 2020.

 

[massraider]

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/07/post_186.html

This sounds a worse than most reportings.

When players in the NFL are drug-screened, two different tests are used. Gordon measured 38 nanograms per milliliter of THC on the immunoassay test, above the NFL's threshold of 20, the source said.

i missed this part the first time i read the article.as a Browns fan, i was starting to get my hopes up a bit, but this seems pretty cut and dried, doesn't it?

Yes. Their defense is second hand smoke, and if you bet against that defense every time, you would have never lost a bet.

I truly don't have a dog in this fight, although I don't have much patience for the squandered talent guys, but I have a tough time seeing how he walks from this.

And I think he either walks, or gets the full boat. I think he used his mulligan already.

I do wish people world try to keep to relevant items. The NFL maybe someday revising their weed rules? Isn't relevant. Ray Rice? Not relevant.

If you want to discuss the fairness, whatever. That conversation won't really go anywhere, but OK. But if you are trying to predict his suspension, it's not relevant.

The Gordon Camp is, going to go the second-hand smoke route, by all accounts. The Washington Generals have a better winning percentage than that defense.

I liken this to the Jimmy Graham arbitration. Hey, let's take a shot at second-hand smoke! Why not? We have nothing to lose. Graham knew it was a long shot, and I am sure Gordon knows as well.

The fact that it had taken this long, is stirring up everyone's inner conspiracy theories, but the main story hasn't changed much, and odds are very much against Gordon walking on this.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/07/post_186.html

This sounds a worse than most reportings.

When players in the NFL are drug-screened, two different tests are used. Gordon measured 38 nanograms per milliliter of THC on the immunoassay test, above the NFL's threshold of 20, the source said.

i missed this part the first time i read the article.

as a Browns fan, i was starting to get my hopes up a bit, but this seems pretty cut and dried, doesn't it?

Yeah it kind of paints a different story than the 1 nanogram over the limit....we keep hearing about.

ETA: who am I Yogi Berra?.... paints a different story

 

[cstu]

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/07/post_186.html

This sounds a worse than most reportings.

When players in the NFL are drug-screened, two different tests are used. Gordon measured 38 nanograms per milliliter of THC on the immunoassay test, above the NFL's threshold of 20, the source said.

i missed this part the first time i read the article.

as a Browns fan, i was starting to get my hopes up a bit, but this seems pretty cut and dried, doesn't it?

Gordon should have got the suspension started in April so could be back next year. Dragging this out means everything has to go perfectly for him to get reinstated by week 1 next year.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

The entire substance abuse and personal conduct policies are ridiculous IMO, but they're what the league and the NFLPA agreed to, so things are probably pretty unlikely to change until we get a new CBA in 2020.

I've seen the idea that the league would revisit the drug policy in exchange for adding something re: HGH, but the players balk for various reasons (some legit IMO).

If true, definitely works against Gordon here IMO. As does negotiated settlement for previous violation.

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/07/post_186.html

This sounds a worse than most reportings.

When players in the NFL are drug-screened, two different tests are used. Gordon measured 38 nanograms per milliliter of THC on the immunoassay test, above the NFL's threshold of 20, the source said.

i missed this part the first time i read the article.as a Browns fan, i was starting to get my hopes up a bit, but this seems pretty cut and dried, doesn't it?

Yes. Their defense is second hand smoke, and if you bet against that defense every time, you would have never lost a bet.

I truly don't have a dog in this fight, although I don't have much patience for the squandered talent guys, but I have a tough time seeing how he walks from this.

And I think he either walks, or gets the full boat. I think he used his mulligan already.

I do wish people world try to keep to relevant items. The NFL maybe someday revising their weed rules? Isn't relevant. Ray Rice? Not relevant.

If you want to discuss the fairness, whatever. That conversation won't really go anywhere, but OK. But if you are trying to predict his suspension, it's not relevant.

The Gordon Camp is, going to go the second-hand smoke route, by all accounts. The Washington Generals have a better winning percentage than that defense.

I liken this to the Jimmy Graham arbitration. Hey, let's take a shot at second-hand smoke! Why not? We have nothing to lose. Graham knew it was a long shot, and I am sure Gordon knows as well.

The fact that it had taken this long, is stirring up everyone's inner conspiracy theories, but the main story hasn't changed much, and odds are very much against Gordon walking on this.

Read it again. The center of their argument is NOT second hand smoke. That part adjunct to their main argument that the test was flawed.