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WR Josh Gordon, KC (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Matt Waldman
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Proust Loves Cake
Footballguy
SP,putting on a clinic on Ghostguy today. Worst/best part is he has no clue how twisted backpedalling and incoherent his posting attempts come across.
Proust Loves Cake
Footballguy
If there is a problem, it will be tested/scrutinized. I know you think the NFL is the only organization hell bent on taking your drugs away. Fits your "NFL is the bad guys" narrative. But, if drugs are negatively impacting the workplace, there will be tests. There will be sanctions .
Sabertooth
Footballguy
My question is why do people care what the NFL policies are and for Gordon in particular? I can guarantee he doesn't give two #### what your work policies are. It's laughable that people are trying to white knight for a kid who just doesn't even give one ####.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I don't like weed.
Yes the players were forced so sign it.
They are idiots to break the rules and cost themselves tons of money.
What's the confusion?
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
I am glad you think so.
If you disagree with me about the rules being far too strict, so be it. No idea where you see me backpedaling or any incoherence. Please point it out some specifics for me on this so I can learn from my mistakes.
It's not that I particularly "care", I just think they are absurdly over the top and felt like expressing that opinion.
It sort of goes hand in hand with other over the top things the NFL is doing with fines and punishments. Some of them make sense, some don't, and some are handled differently based on some set of rules that don't exist until they make them up at the time (see Rice and Peterson situations where things got fumbled up and made them look like they had no idea what they were doing).
And who is trying to White Knight Gordon?? He is a total idiot and got what he deserved. Maybe one other person did that, but it sure wasn't me.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
has there been an official statement from Gordon or The Browns?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
In Cleveland here I can't even tell. I can't tell if I am hearing interviews from the last 5 times he was in trouble, or new ones.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
You realize what they sign off on is called a "Collective Bargaining Agreement", right?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
sigh............................................
if you don't sign then you don't play = ultimatum = forced to sign = you must abide by the rules or face the consequences you agreed to
what does this have to do with my opinion that the league policies are too strict?
KCitons
Footballguy
so every time I sign an agreement, I'm forced into an ultimatum? I guess I was forced to lease my car. And I was forced to own my home.
Did the CBA benefit the players at all?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
So what happens if they don't sign?
anticipated answer - "they can't play"
They don't have a gun to their head or anything, but that is as close to literally being forced to sign as you can get without actually being literal. That agreement could say ANYTHING and the players would sign it. It's the only way they can play in the NFL.
Again I will ask, what does this have to do with my opinion of some of the rules?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
"choose to sign" = you must abide by the rules or face the consequences
That's the way the (employment) world works...strange.
At least NFL players got some say in what they wanted those rules to be hence the "collectively bargained" for part of the agreement/contract.
And Gordon does ultimately have a choice on whether he wants to sign his contract, as do we all. He chose where he wanted to be employed (well in fairness he doesn't get to chose which specific "company" of the association he wants to work for) - he wasn't forced to be employed by an NFL team. Were you forced to sign your employment contract?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
So wait, you're saying that they WANT to play in the NFL?
Well, they can, but if they chose to do so, there are some basic rules that must be followed. If they chose not to follow said rules, then certain punishments apply. Oh, he doesn't like one particular rule? Maybe he should follow it for now, earn the respect of his teammates and try and become the players rep for his team, then the next time the CBA expires he can be part of the process that forms those rules.
msommer
Footballguy
There are any number of career choices for a young college student. All of which have restrictions attache to them. You are free to choose among them and apply yourself towards that end, knowing that there will be restrictions on you should you succeed.
White Lightning
Footballguy
I've scanned the thread but I didn't see an answer. Can someone post Gordon's actual BAC levels and the approximate time of day when they were taken? TIA.
msommer
Footballguy
I don't think that will ever be released. This was not a DUI arrest where it becomes public but a league mandated test. I think we've never been told more than the absolute basics about those
White Lightning
Footballguy
Thanks. Is he really banned from drinking ANY alcohol? I was waiting on the results to pass judgment. If he blew/pissed a 0.04 at 3 p.m. after having a couple of beer at lunch, then I would point out how ridiculous a year long suspension was. If he blew/pissed a 0.10 at 3 p.m. after 5-6 beers at lunch, then I wouldn't have much of a problem with the suspension.
As a side note, I was watching a Frontline special titled the "Secrets of the Vatican" on Netflix Sunday when I saw the Gordon news on my phone. The Church (which I am a member) allows pedophile priests to be transferred from parish to parish without punishment or prosecution. The NFL bans a WR with previous weed/alcohol violations for a year because he has some booze in his system. Not looking for responses or a theological debate, I just appreciated the perspective.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I don't think anyone would argue that there aren't much greater injustices in the world.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
do you even realize that I agree with everything you just said? I have said over and over now that the players have to follow the rules, and if they don't then they deserve whatever punishment is in the agreement.
repeat- what does this have to do with my opinion that some of the league policies are too strict?
If the players collectively agreed to and signed a deal stating they were no longer allowed to watch television past 10pm, I would think that would be an absurd rule. At the time same, I think they would deserve whatever punishment is stated in the agreement if they were to get caught, and they would deserve it for being stupid.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Agreed, as I have said probably 30 times now.
It is possible to know this, yet still think some of the current policies are over the top.
It doesn't mean I think they don't need to follow them
msommer
Footballguy
Of course not.
But you seem to think they serve no purpose and that the rules should be changed.
(I'm probably putting words in your mouth that you never said, so please don't hold that against me if I am wrong in expressing your opinion.)
IMHO the main purpose of the substance abuse rules as they exist now is to keep the (millionaire) players more or less in line with the morals and values of average Americans, the ones who tune in every Sunday during the season, that fork over the bucks for tickets and merchandise and who may bring their kids into the fandom if the surrounding media circus can be kept PG.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Of course they serve a purpose, i never said they didn't. Other than the bolded, I agree with everything here. (well, maybe not the "millionaire" insert either. What % of the players are millionaires? i imagine many are not)
yet, I still think some of the policies are over the top related to some substances (not to mention the abundance of fines for crap that I don't think warrant a fine, but that is obviously for another thread). I am rather confident the NFL would thrive as-is even if some of the policies were less strict. Like, super confident.
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salmonstud
Footballguy
The NFL is no different than district courts in the U.S. If you are in trouble for a drunk driving or marijuana possession charge in a state that has not legalized marijuana for recreational purposes you are often put on probation & drug tested randomly while on probation. The NFL substance abuse policy right or wrong is similar but obviously much more intensive in it's monitoring.
Gordon strikes me as a person that is always looking for a loophole & feels he is smart enough to get away with drinking/using while on probation in the NFL so to speak. He obviously is not. He is choosing to drink & use vs. playing in the NFL. Nothing wrong with that - it's his personal choice. If he truly wants to play in the NFL again he needs to decide if using substances trumps playing football and if it does not then I hope he looks at playing in the CFL for a year if he is able to do so without interaction with the legal system in Canada - seek reinstatement in the NFL in 2016. However, with his recent drunk driving - it might stop him from living in Canada believe it or not.
Gordon strikes me as a person that is always looking for a loophole & feels he is smart enough to get away with drinking/using while on probation in the NFL so to speak. He obviously is not. He is choosing to drink & use vs. playing in the NFL. Nothing wrong with that - it's his personal choice. If he truly wants to play in the NFL again he needs to decide if using substances trumps playing football and if it does not then I hope he looks at playing in the CFL for a year if he is able to do so without interaction with the legal system in Canada - seek reinstatement in the NFL in 2016. However, with his recent drunk driving - it might stop him from living in Canada believe it or not.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
No, but I guess like everyone else, I'm just not understanding what you are saying (like you keep claiming) and it's not that you're not really saying what everyone else seems to think you are.
And who cares if you think the policies are too strict, it's completely irrelevant to this discussion about Gordon? Obviously the owners and the NFLPA don't think they are too strict. You know why, because they were the ones that created them.
You can throw out as many examples of absurd hypothetical rules as you like (Hey what if there was a rule that any player named Brian would have to legally change his name to Turdburger within 30 days of joining the league?), it doesn't make your argument any stronger. The NFL does not want their players smoking weed, just like 1,000s of other businesses in this country, but ghostguy from the internet thinks that's stupid. Duly noted.
msommer
Footballguy
I put the millionaire in because most people are not and if they see millionaire football players acting out with booze and drugs, making it rain etc it is likely to cause more resentment than if a third string OG is caught driving under the influence. Allowing resentment against the 'faces' of the product is not a good business decision.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
I promised Id stay out of here, but one last post.
Good stuff written by Gordon (and his agent) to Barkley et al.
https://medium.com/the-cauldron/an-open-letter-to-charles-barkley-co-cb5c4e64cf3
Good stuff written by Gordon (and his agent) to Barkley et al.
https://medium.com/the-cauldron/an-open-letter-to-charles-barkley-co-cb5c4e64cf3
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JimmyJabroni
Footballguy
That was well written. I'm not sure I believe all of it but he makes a good point, we don't really know him. In any event, looks like we will have to wait till Sept 2016 to see if he can turn this around for himself. I hope he can.
fredsavage
Footballguy
Just saying, I love me some weed and brew but I have never passed out in a drive thru... Perhaps he could change public perception by, you know, abiding by the terms of his agreements instead of lashing out at the media who understandably assume there's a fire behind all this smoke.
He may have a career in journalism though, the letter was quite articulate
He may have a career in journalism though, the letter was quite articulate
From that article:
This guy kills me. After all the stuff he's been through, the hard child hood, the drug issues in college and in the NFL...after all the drama of last year with having to appeal a year long suspension...then getting a DWI on top of that...it finally gets reduced... he is back to playing in the NFL again...then he misses a team walk through and gets suspended by the team...after all of that...he doesn't think to figure out this little detail of his agreement?
Doesn't make any sense at all. He is just going to keep making excuses as this letter shows.
if his agent didn't make abundantly clear that even after the regular season ended he would still be tested for alchohol... his agent should be fired immediately.... that's unforgivable, especially since the agent has a vested interest to get Josh in a good place for his FA year.... he was presumably aware that his next screw up would cost him a full year... and he couldnt be bothered with learning the exact specific details as to what he had to do? it makes him look like an even bigger ####### than i thought it was
overall though that "letter" is going to do no good as it just sounds like a bunch of excuses.... even the drunk driving issue if you read the way it is written i interpret it as he basically is saying I didnt think I was that drunk.... which is a terrible message to put out there.
overall though that "letter" is going to do no good as it just sounds like a bunch of excuses.... even the drunk driving issue if you read the way it is written i interpret it as he basically is saying I didnt think I was that drunk.... which is a terrible message to put out there.
Ya it's strange. It's very strategically well written though. No way he wrote that though in his words. No chance.
It does sound like everything has an excuse, but then he quickly says "but that is no excuse for what I did" afterwards, to make it seem like he's taking responsibility, and so people won't blame him of making excuses. But I think many will see right through that.
Hard not to cheer for the guy when reading that, but then you kinda slip back to reality realizing how planned out that letter was.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I do.
I mean, obviously we can't prove who wrote the letter, but if you hear Gordon speak you know he is fully capable of writing an actual well thought out letter using proper English. It's not like the letter sounds like some other person or something, cause it doesn't.
He isn't super dumb in the low IQ sense of being dumb. He is dumb in that he makes dumb decisions and mistakes.
Most people likely do not believe he didn't smoke weed since his 2012 incident, but as he said, his multitude of drug tests prove otherwise. Except for the obvious ONE incident in that time span where he claimed 2nd hand smoke which IS possible at the super low levels the NFL tests for.
he's an idiot, not an addict.
I mean, obviously we can't prove who wrote the letter, but if you hear Gordon speak you know he is fully capable of writing an actual well thought out letter using proper English. It's not like the letter sounds like some other person or something, cause it doesn't.
He isn't super dumb in the low IQ sense of being dumb. He is dumb in that he makes dumb decisions and mistakes.
Most people likely do not believe he didn't smoke weed since his 2012 incident, but as he said, his multitude of drug tests prove otherwise. Except for the obvious ONE incident in that time span where he claimed 2nd hand smoke which IS possible at the super low levels the NFL tests for.
he's an idiot, not an addict.
blah blah blah
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Why do you give a crap what a particular NFL disciplinary policy is? I don't care. Next man up.
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
The bolded part is especially important b/c he's says in the letter that he's not much of a drinker. So he would likely be more impaired than someone that drinks often when he's found at the legal limit threshold.
Regardless, his main message is on point. The media is full of dolts that spout off without knowing a damn thing about the person or situation. So . . . welcome to the world the rest of us already live in, I guess?
Warrior
Footballguy
It's plain and simple that it has everything to do with your opinion of the rules. If Gordon thought they were TOO strict, he wouldn't/shouldn't have signed. It's a great thing to be an NFL player, so the bar is set high. The expectations and rules are stringent enough to keep only the dumbest of the morons and pathetic individuals from being able to play and further tarnish the league.
99% of NFL players have absolutely no difficulty staying within these rules, which you seem to think are incredibly strict and unfair. Just stop, you're embarassing yourself.
Warrior
Footballguy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_85xgEnBBk
Same story over and over. "I made mistakes, now I'll change", then another incident, then the same message. Wash, rinse, repeat. Hope he's as good at making burgers as he was at catching footballs.
Same story over and over. "I made mistakes, now I'll change", then another incident, then the same message. Wash, rinse, repeat. Hope he's as good at making burgers as he was at catching footballs.
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KellysHeroes
Footballguy
So he thought his alcohol ban was till the end of the season yet the season is still going on and he was also wasted 2 days before the week 17 finale at johnny's party.... so sad. If this was anyone else on that team they be cut.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
is it even possible that Stephen A Smith is now dumber than Gordon?
So it appears Smith is upset because Gordon is giving a bad name to the black community or some crap?
God the media just gets worse and worse every day.
So it appears Smith is upset because Gordon is giving a bad name to the black community or some crap?
God the media just gets worse and worse every day.
igbomb
Footballguy
I have no doubt that there are some falsehoods buried in that letter, but there is nothing understandable about the media's reaction to his transgressions. He's right to call them out. It's bull#### all the way around. Guys in a studio that don't even know the guy fearing for his life. Ridiculous.fredsavage said:
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Unfortunately for Gordon he gave those dilljacks exactly what they wanted, a reaction. Hook, line, sinker.
Stephen A's follow up reaction really does make him look insane and clueless though. Maybe even more so than Skip's general persona.
God I am glad I don't watch their stupid show anymore. I used to watch some when Skip was always talking about how Tebow was so good and how Lebron was some huge underachieving choke artist. It might have just been that I was blown away by the things I heard and I wanted to see what idiocy I could hear next, but thankfully I broke the spell.
