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WR Josh Gordon, KC (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Matt Waldman
- Start date
DallasDMac
Footballguy
I guess I thought the Ray Lewis's and the Michael Vicks of the league were obvious. I guess you can start here. I'm not going to sit and type a ton of them out when they are so easy to find.massraider said:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He doesnt get paid during a suspension anyway - and this one he'd be gone for good so in essence he is signing such a contract anyway.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Of course he will. If he fails a test he'll be suspended to the bejesus belt (again) so it's not like he's losing anything. And unless the contract has guaranteed money, which there is no way Cleveland will do, they can just cut him in 2025 when he's reinstated. Such a clause is entirely moot to Gordon and he has no leverage to demand it not be included anyway. He can't negotiate with any other team so what's he gonna do? If he wants to get back into the NFL and prove he's turned himself around this is the one way he's going to do it.
Even guaranteed money has limits, as nearly every NFL contract has some kind of morality or conduct detrimental clause in it. Lawrence Timmons originally had his 2018 salary guaranteed but when he went AWOL last year that guarantee was voided. MIA almost certainly would have kept him or, at worst tried to trade him, had that not happened. Now they can snip him with no problem. Doug Martin originally had $7.5M guaranteed this year - gone when he got suspended and they just cut him scot free.
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DallasDMac
Footballguy
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Does anyone know when he becomes an unrestricted free agent?
amnesiac
beer is good
Hankmoody
Footballguy
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Saw this short clip and instantly thought of JG and his lack of effort.
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https://twitter.com/FatihAkser/status/968507809846378497
“Difference between a really good player and a good player” by Geno Auriemma
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https://twitter.com/FatihAkser/status/968507809846378497
“Difference between a really good player and a good player” by Geno Auriemma
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
If anything he looks the part.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I don't think many are hoping for his demise. Historically he has proven to be pretty unreliable. History = expectations.
"There's an old saying in Tennessee—I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee—that says, 'Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
Those are a whole lot of muscles to tear..
Soulfly3
Footballguy
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Hankmoody
Footballguy
daveR
Footballguy
No. His situation has changed for the better. To ignore those facts is putting your head in the sand. So, to say, "History = expectations" is silly. We know that his talent is elite, but his head has limited him. The question becomes, "How does his head affect his future play?" If it is on completely straight, he is a top-5 guy. If he has made the transition to "recovering" addict, and I believe he has, he is upper echelon. The fact that he is working on physique indicates to me that he has eschewed the party scene -- something that's vital to his very existence. This off-season had me concerned. Glad to see he is making the most of it!.
Faust
MVP
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
bagger
Footballguy
Reminds me of David Boston. Just because you are ripped doesn’t mean you will have success.Cobbler1 said:
Chaka
Footballguy
David Boston had success. He couldn't keep his #### together but he did lead the league in yardage (1,598) in 2001, had 1100 yards in 2000 and was on his way to a third consecutive season of 1000+ yards and 16.0+ ypc in 2002 before getting injured.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
True, although Boston looked like the Incredible Hulk. Gordon looks cut but not like he is transitioning to a bodybuilder. Rather have him look like he is devoted to focusing on his body than not...considering his substance issues. Also Gordon is much more fluid in his movement than Boston ever was...not even close.
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Football Jones
Footballguy
Yeah, Boston had huge biceps that can restrict movement. You see it in bodybuilding obviously, but biceps are vastly overrated for athletes in general. You typically don't see big biceps on some of the strongest people in the world (like Olympic lifters & powerlifters). Curls for the girls, but that's about it as far as overly big biceps.
Gordon has good muscle mass & is cut, but isn't bulky. Big difference, IMO.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He's not nearly as bloated as David Boston - he's much more lean and cut up. Boston looked like some one stuck an air pump in his biceps and overinflated them. Gordon looks like a machine. I don't own him anywhere and I'm as leery as the next guy when it comes to owning him but how about we give credit where it's due. The guy looks to be in incredible shape, which should also tell us he's probably not boozing up at least.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
Matt Waldman
Footballguy
I wouldn't get too bogged down in his conditioning. He was always a big, strong receiver. Boston entered the league a much smaller player and then bloated up.
Gordon still plays a fluid game with strength
Gordon finds the seam for a nice extension vs. Green Bay
Still quick off the line
Still fast and strong enough to overcome  Hayward pinning him to the sideline
Still fluid and flexible to turn and catch a pass not thrown pinpoint.
Gordon still plays a fluid game with strength
Gordon finds the seam for a nice extension vs. Green Bay
Still quick off the line
Still fast and strong enough to overcome  Hayward pinning him to the sideline
Still fluid and flexible to turn and catch a pass not thrown pinpoint.
mquinnjr
Footballguy
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Managed to get him cheapish in a couple spots last year. In a 3rd league we all fell asleep when he made it thru BB waivers and was sitting on FCFS waivers. The best team in our league (effing stacked and prohibitive favorite) snagged him for free. Literally.
It is not "burn victim" my friend. Its burn survivor. None of us survivors are victims. However, hopefully the cbs he faces are burn victims
Chaka
Footballguy
It is not "burn victim" my friend. Its burn survivor. None of us survivors are victims. However, hopefully the cbs he faces are burn victims
I appreciate the knowledge.
So have we verified that Gordon is a burn survivor? I seem to remember reading about an NFL player being a burn survivor several years ago and want to attribute it to Gordon but I'm not sure.
I appreciate the knowledge.
So have we verified that Gordon is a burn survivor? I seem to remember reading about an NFL player being a burn survivor several years ago and want to attribute it to Gordon but I'm not sure.
No prob bud! I dont take any offense to it but the label victim does tend to be problematic coping with the mental aspect of burn injuries. I myself used that term at first until I was enlightened. But anyways lol
I never read that he had dealt with burn Injuries. Doesn't mean he hasn't I just dont have any knowledge of it.
Justin Howe
Moderator
I've got him on 7% of my early DRAFT rosters, and I'm not in a rush to boost that. He's become a guy I scoop up for diversification's sake, and only when he falls into 5 or 6.
It's just...
Gordon 2013 (14 gm) - 55% catch rate, 10.4 y/tg, 22.5 PPR/gm
Gordon everywhere else (26 gm) - 50% catch rate, 7.8 y/tg, 10.4 PPR/gm
We're not only reaching back five literal NFL years. We're also pushing in on the much smaller sample. And why now? Because Tyrod is on board?
I'm not going to say Gordon is unworthy of a fourth because he's a risk; not even because he's a hefty risk. Leagues are won every year with busted fourth-rounders, anyway. I'd call him unworthy because his profile just doesn't suggest that the truly projectable ceiling matches the ADP once (substantial) risk is considered.
Speaking from my own projections: even if I'm generous with his efficiency marks and award him a few long scores, I can't get him higher than 62-1079-7. Over 16 games. That's with a team-high 21.0% target share and a high TD rate. I wouldn't call that his true ceiling, of course, as he's already been a 150-target monster once. But it feels like a realistic one as a 1A/B in this Hue offense, with a QB situation not worlds better than the Hoyer/Manziel/Kizer stretch. You're likely forced to take him over similar ceilings and comfier floors in Hilton, JuJu, and Diggs.
It's just...
Gordon 2013 (14 gm) - 55% catch rate, 10.4 y/tg, 22.5 PPR/gm
Gordon everywhere else (26 gm) - 50% catch rate, 7.8 y/tg, 10.4 PPR/gm
We're not only reaching back five literal NFL years. We're also pushing in on the much smaller sample. And why now? Because Tyrod is on board?
I'm not going to say Gordon is unworthy of a fourth because he's a risk; not even because he's a hefty risk. Leagues are won every year with busted fourth-rounders, anyway. I'd call him unworthy because his profile just doesn't suggest that the truly projectable ceiling matches the ADP once (substantial) risk is considered.
Speaking from my own projections: even if I'm generous with his efficiency marks and award him a few long scores, I can't get him higher than 62-1079-7. Over 16 games. That's with a team-high 21.0% target share and a high TD rate. I wouldn't call that his true ceiling, of course, as he's already been a 150-target monster once. But it feels like a realistic one as a 1A/B in this Hue offense, with a QB situation not worlds better than the Hoyer/Manziel/Kizer stretch. You're likely forced to take him over similar ceilings and comfier floors in Hilton, JuJu, and Diggs.
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Your post is spot on as to how I feel. Can’t understand how this isn’t more of issue for even the most optimistic Gordon owners. There’s upside there for sure, but it’s been five years since his one notable season. He’s flashed a few times since then, but largely been pretty invisible.
He’s definitely one of the story lines I’m most eager to follow this season.
Good information but it certainly screams for some context. 16 of those 26 games were as a raw rookie where he still put up 50/805/5 on 96 targets. A fine performance for a rookie. And of course we know the other 10 games came in 2 five game stints with little or no camp/practice time. I’d almost throw out last year completely with turd Kizer air mailing every other throw in his “direction”. On the rare occasions where he actually saw catchable balls he looked the part of a guy who is still a stud IMO. My concerns for Gordon center on Tyrod’s low career volume of pass attempts and more competition for targets from Landry and second year Njoku. I’m still buying in though. Definitely a wild card heading into this season and I can’t blame anyone for approaching him with caution.
