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WR Josh Gordon, KC (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Matt Waldman
- Start date
Fortunately, it is easy to go over to pro-football-reference.com and see whether or not it paid off for him, back on October of 2012...
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
He just had a target and then came off the field as a rotation. He looks like he is rotating in spot duty this game. Up 24-0, have to wonder how many targets he will see.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
I would wait for the second half before you decide that. Lets see how the Dolphins adjust and what that opens up. Brady isn't coming out. He threw for 133 yards last week. The more I think about it, I think they are going to lay it on.
JamieMurphy
Footballguy
He was 2-2 for 32 yards. He didn't get many targets but NE got an early lead and relied on the running game much in the 2nd half.
Not sure if any NE WRs or Gronk are going to do much on a weekly basis with that deep a roster.
Not sure if any NE WRs or Gronk are going to do much on a weekly basis with that deep a roster.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
chad in Indy
Footballguy
I kept Gordon on the bench. Though don't think it will help me get a win this week regardless
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Was it 9 or 10 tds today for Flash?
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Damn. A lot of people emotionally invested in this guy failing. Kinda sad to think about.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Give me a break. The feedback comes from a select few who have beaten holes in the drum for this guy the last five years. Wish him no harm, just fun to rib back once in awhile. He has enough talent to have some good games this season and I would expect that to happen if he can keep straight. If you want to be sensitive and turn this into a victim parade I will check out of this topic.
JuniorGong
Footballguy
Feel pretty good about his fantasy prospects rest of the season
pantherclub
Footballguy
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I benched him for Ekeler--which ended up being a good move--but I was very much rooting for him to do well and go nuts on my bench. Today provided me with no clarity at all. Edelman coming back on a short week can change the entire landscape of the Pats offense. Michel looked like a dude that needs and deserves more touches. Gordon is as giant a question mark going into week 5 as he was going into this week. He's a desperation start at best going into this next week. Such a headache.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Elevencents
Footballguy
The way the Pats spread it around I can’t help but think he is a desperation play. He can score a TD at any moment but I think it’s hard to imagine him getting more than a handful of targets a game.
Sorry dude. I thought people knew the best part about owning Gordon is that you can leave him planted on your bench so you are always starting the guys who will score the most.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
He scored exactly 4.20 points in my league. 
This thread has become the perfect example of the age of the internet, the speed of information, and the desire for instant gratification. The guy literally jut got traded to the pats. And after 1 inactive game and another where he got 18 snaps as they work him into the offense people are calling him a bust.
Those who actually understand football know to wait for half the season to go by to get any real idea of how this will go.
Those who actually understand football know to wait for half the season to go by to get any real idea of how this will go.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Are we talking reality football or fantasy football? If we are talking "reality football"--I completely agree with you. It's too early to tell how Gordon on the Pats will pan out. My gut instinct is that in 4 or 5 games--Gordon could be the weapon that the Pats need in order to be a real contender (as they really haven't looked right all year). With that said--I think that is completely different than his fantasy outlook. Most people spent a 4th-6th round pick on him. He's been unstartable every week thus far. Nobody can trust him for more than being a wr4-5 next week as well. He played limited snaps--its a short week--oh and now he has to get acclimated to his new team getting its biggest target monster back. This effectively makes him unstartable next week said from cases where teams are just in pure desperation mode.
Best case scenario--Gordon might be useful for maybe 1/2 of the fantasy season--and there is a case that he's not useful for even that much. I think it's safe to say that if you drafted him in the first 5-6 rounds--he's been a bust. He's also been a bust in the sense that he was on a team where he was in position to thrive. The Browns actually had a lot going for them in regards to Gordon. Great talent at the running back position with hyde/Chubb, duke. Great assets in the wr corps with landry, gordon, and others. A nice young TE in Njoku, and legit talent at the qb position. All the guy had to do was stay off of drugs, come to practices on time, and not hurt himself by racing drones in self promotional videos--and he managed to screw that up. That's not instant gratification on behalf of us--thats self destructive behavior and stupid decision making by one of the most skilled and talented wr's in the game. i certainly hope that he finishes the season strong and turns things around--but at this point--I'm not expecting much to change in regards to fantasy. Maybe he turns into a guy that you can actually trust starting by week 7 or 8. Even if he does-his return on investment will be significantly negative for a massive number of his fantasy owners.
Elevencents
Footballguy
I stand by my statement that he won’t be a >5 target guy on average. That’s just who the Pats are.
skinsrule05
Footballguy
It's weird to me that some people take so much pleasure in players doing badly. Between the Fournette, Cook and Gordon threads you must be high on life right now.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
You can go back in this thread and see my feeling on Gordon and know how I feel. With that said I agree 100% and only time will tell.
I also feel like it’s a lock he scores on Thursday
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I made the same decision (Nelson). I'll be happy to see him have a good game on my bench the week before I finally consider starting him.ConnSKINS26 said:
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Huh? I don’t take pleasure in players doing badly. Read through the thread before you make bogus claims. I have Gordon in 2 of my 4 leagues and Fournette in 1. I’d love nothing more than for them to start producing to their talent levels. Gordon has done nothing this season to fill me with optimism about his outlook. That’s not being pessimistic- that’s called being realistic.
Except it's not who they are, at all.
What they are not is a team that tries to placate players. When they have a squeaky wheel they don't try to grease it, they trade or cut it.
What they are is a team that gets their best players the ball. Moss had 160 targets his first season and while Josh is not Moss who else have they had as an outside WR who demanded a big target workload? Gronk is normally among league leaders in TE targets per game and when they had Hernandez they were setting records for team TE targets. When they had Welker in his prime he was setting records for slot WR targets and Edelman has averaged over 9 targets a game in last 4 seasons.
Whether Josh can learn the system on the fly and become one of their most dangerous weapons this season is another debate. But if he can, targets are not going to be an issue.
Elevencents
Footballguy
That’s just it.
10 for Gronk, 10 for Edelman, 5 for White, 5 for Patterson/Dorsett/Randomflavoroftheweek. There just aren’t enough to go around. The days of forcing the ball to Moss are long gone. I will be shocked, utterly shocked, if he hits double digits targets in a single game this year. But I have no horse in the race and would love to see him thrive.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
"He's been really working hard and trying to get things right," Brady said during his weekly interview on WEEI's "Kirk & Callahan" show. "I don't feel like I had to worry about where he was lining up or what he was running. He was super confident. I could tell in his eyes he knew what he was doing."
"We get along well. He sits right next to me, so it's just a nice rapport to have that," Brady said. ". . . Now that he's our teammate, we've got to get to know each other because you can build that trust and chemistry in different ways. You see it with guys I played with for a long time. It builds and builds and builds. And what happens is, you just - you're able to make a lot of good plays, and you basically eliminate all the bad plays."
"Bad things don't happen when I throw it to Julian, bad things don't happen when I throw it to Gronk just because I know their body language and I know the types of plays that they're capable of making. You try to make plays, throw the ball where they're able to make the plays and not the defense," Brady said. "It's really a building process, and everything that you're doing, you're either building trust, you're gaining trust or you're losing trust. And it's just guys that really are professional and they know what to do and they show up and they're prepared - you build trust pretty quickly."
"I have no doubt I'm going to take advantage of this opportunity," Gordon said. "I'm more than blessed, I'm extremely grateful to be put in this scenario. I think the only thing right for me to do is to take full advantage of it. I'm loving it, I'm enjoying it. The guys have been great. It's a real home environment. I feel as comfortable as ever."
Gordon should be ready for more work Thursday because there figures to be rust between Brady and Edelman, and Gronkowski's status is uncertain because of an ankle injury that caused him to leave the Patriots' 38-7 victory over Miami in the third quarter Sunday.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/ct-spt-patriots-josh-gordon-tom-brady-20181001-story.html
"We get along well. He sits right next to me, so it's just a nice rapport to have that," Brady said. ". . . Now that he's our teammate, we've got to get to know each other because you can build that trust and chemistry in different ways. You see it with guys I played with for a long time. It builds and builds and builds. And what happens is, you just - you're able to make a lot of good plays, and you basically eliminate all the bad plays."
"Bad things don't happen when I throw it to Julian, bad things don't happen when I throw it to Gronk just because I know their body language and I know the types of plays that they're capable of making. You try to make plays, throw the ball where they're able to make the plays and not the defense," Brady said. "It's really a building process, and everything that you're doing, you're either building trust, you're gaining trust or you're losing trust. And it's just guys that really are professional and they know what to do and they show up and they're prepared - you build trust pretty quickly."
"I have no doubt I'm going to take advantage of this opportunity," Gordon said. "I'm more than blessed, I'm extremely grateful to be put in this scenario. I think the only thing right for me to do is to take full advantage of it. I'm loving it, I'm enjoying it. The guys have been great. It's a real home environment. I feel as comfortable as ever."
Gordon should be ready for more work Thursday because there figures to be rust between Brady and Edelman, and Gronkowski's status is uncertain because of an ankle injury that caused him to leave the Patriots' 38-7 victory over Miami in the third quarter Sunday.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/ct-spt-patriots-josh-gordon-tom-brady-20181001-story.html
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Steelers4Life
Footballguy
If Gordon proves himself to be Brady's biggest and best threat on anything downfield and outside the numbers, he'll get plenty of targets from Brady. I'd guess that once he reaches that point, there will be weeks when he gets 5 targets and others where he could get to 10 or more. It's true that he'll open things up for Edelman and Gronk, but it's also true that while defenses know they have to key on them, that'll also open up a lot of opportunities for Gordon to make plays. If he takes advantage of them, Brady will go to him more and more.
Dizzy
Footballguy
Fully with you on this.
If Gordon still has it (and we will find out soon), he will get the bulk of the receiving work no doubt in my mind. These dink 'n' dunks to the RBs and Edelman can switchover real quick to chunk plays downfield to Gordon.
Don't know what to make of Gronk. Could end up the odd man out here.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Not to single you out, but where do you guys come up with some of this stuff? The pecking order is going to be Edelman, Gronk, and then most likely White. No way on earth is Gronk going to end up as the odd man out. No way, no how.
If Gordon can get with the system, he may have games where he sees a decent share of targets depending upon the game plan and the defensive coverage. IMO, he and Hogan should have similar roles. Both will probably have all sorts of routes from all different spots on the field and will be pretty hit or miss, will probably break some big plays, and may become TD dependent to get really good fantasy scoring. Just look at Hogan's numbers from week to week (not this year, but the last couple of years when he was not the primary receiver).
The guys that are most likely to lose targets are Dorsett and Patterson. I am still not sold that Michel will be a target hog as a rookie (and Brady LOVES White), so Michel may end up not seeing as many targets with the introduction of Edelman and with Gordon being more fully integrated.
And a lot will be game plan specific. In NE going in feels that playing 4 receivers is their best play, they could easily have a week where they look to exploit Patterson or Dorsett. Gordon gives them an element they haven't had so far this season (field stretcher) and Edelman gives them a guy that Brady can go to to get first downs when he needs a security blanket. Add in a run game and now the NE offense looks close to normal and Gronk has room to roam and not be the primary target of defensive coverage.
I think the irony here is that the offense probably has more speed and potential for explosive plays the the defense has to cover people.
I wouldn’t be so sure about that pecking order. Julian Edelman is 32 years old and is coming off a major injury. He looked terrible in pre season. Patriot fans were all over the pre season signing of Eric Decker in part because of his age...He is a year younger than Edelman.
I’m not saying Edelman is going to be a bust, but wr’s lose it overnight. I wouldn’t be shocked if he just isn’t the same guy he was the last time he played an NFL game that mattered. I hope the guy makes it back 100% but I wouldn’t bet my life on it.
With the exception of Gronkowski the other Patriot receivers are 3rd + 4th options on teams with a decent WR Corp.
My point being in regards to Gordon is that (assuming he still has it and I believe he does) he is by far the most talented WR on the Patriots and is still only 27 years old. If he can grasp the Patriots playbook (I believe he will) I think his upside will be huge going down the stretch.
I’m not saying Edelman is going to be a bust, but wr’s lose it overnight. I wouldn’t be shocked if he just isn’t the same guy he was the last time he played an NFL game that mattered. I hope the guy makes it back 100% but I wouldn’t bet my life on it.
With the exception of Gronkowski the other Patriot receivers are 3rd + 4th options on teams with a decent WR Corp.
My point being in regards to Gordon is that (assuming he still has it and I believe he does) he is by far the most talented WR on the Patriots and is still only 27 years old. If he can grasp the Patriots playbook (I believe he will) I think his upside will be huge going down the stretch.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
In some ways, Edelman not playing may actually have helped him. He hasn't played in 20 months. So he has taken less wear and tear than if he had played straight through to get to 32. Not sure we can conclude that he was terrible in preseason. I would say he got mixed reviews in camp.
I still think Edelman will have a short term far greater impact than Gordon. Brady has always liked a 3rd down security blanket, whether it be Welker, or Edelman, or Amendola as an Edelman fill in. Gordon may have a bigger NFL value than fantasy value, as defense will have to devote coverage to him even if he is not very involved. He may grow into more snaps a bigger role, but his upside to me is what Cooks was last year. Sort of a hit or miss deep threat (assuming Brady still has the arm to throw deeper downfield). Edelman to me will be a bigger impact moving the sticks and extending drives. At some point, Gordon may turn into a deep threat big play guy, but to me keeping drives alive and the defense off the field is a bigger priority than getting a 60 yard bomb and they score in 40 seconds.
And I openly question how much Gordon can absorb in a matter of weeks or months. IMO, his real impact would be next year once he settles in. They certainly could get some nice contributions this year later in the season, but he won't have full grasp of the offense this year. And it remains to be seen how well he works with Brady and if Brady trusts him. No one will be able to predict that with any certainty. One would hope that they get there at some point, but who knows when that is. Cooks was here a year and they didn't really click. It can take quite a while.
Gordon might be the most physically gifted receiver they have, but that doesn't automatically mean he is the guy best for their system and QB. I still think that will be Edelman. If Edelman is not his old self, I think it will show up in him catching a 6 yard pass and only falling for 8 or 9 yards instead of getting free for 18 yards. Even at 8 or 9 yards, that could be all they need if it was 3rd and 7 . . . and other than White they really have had that guy so far this season. So Edelman's numbers or yards per reception may drop, but I think the number of receptions and first downs he gets will make him NFL valuable. It wouldn't shock me at all if he had games with 9 catches and 55 yards to start. But that could be the difference in a three and out and getting a FG or a TD.
Bottom line, I think the NE offense is trending up. Gordon will get snaps. Edelman coming back. Michel getting accustomed to playing. White is still White. All those guys will free up space for Gronk, And then Hogan becomes the extra guy that allowed him to do well when he played the last couple of years. Then you can add in Dorsett and Patterson for extra receiver sets, game specific game plans, or situational formations and the offense will go back to scoring 30 points a game.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
man, he really did some great stuff sunday to get guys open (and into the endzone)... (just watched the game now, was on a road trip this wknd)
doesnt help much fantasy wise, but clearly NE is going to smash on offense w him out there.
Thursday coming out party?
doesnt help much fantasy wise, but clearly NE is going to smash on offense w him out there.
Thursday coming out party?
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