WR Josh Palmer, BUF (2 Viewers)

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Started and likely to consider dropping. Everett completely kills his PPR upside.

 

[Chaka]

What a bail out TD that was. Will never see my lineup again and will probably be cut - but served his purpose. Thank you sir

Palmer is good. He had 3 TDs in 3 starts last year and came on strong at the end of the year. He might be the eventual replacement for Keenan Allen. But Herbert spreads the ball around, last year Guyton also was productive. This year Carter is in on the action.

Losing value because Keenan Allen is in the lineup is one thing, losing value to DeAndre Carter is something else entirely.

He and Herbert weren't seeing the same things in the defense and I put that on Palmer. Everett seems like the clear #3 target in this offense RoS.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

What a bail out TD that was. Will never see my lineup again and will probably be cut - but served his purpose. Thank you sir

He had 8 targets - Herbert was off on the first couple of targets to Palmer. Not sure what there’s to be upset about.

 

[dschuler]

Drafted him this year, played him last night and will probably drop this week. Besides the touchdown, he looked unfocused and lethargic to me on the week which was his chance to step up. He either runs a six second forty yard dash or was jogging around on his routes. He was initially the number 2 target, but Herbert clearly pivoted after he missed him on a couple early throws.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

What a bail out TD that was. Will never see my lineup again and will probably be cut - but served his purpose. Thank you sir

Palmer is good. He had 3 TDs in 3 starts last year and came on strong at the end of the year. He might be the eventual replacement for Keenan Allen. But Herbert spreads the ball around, last year Guyton also was productive. This year Carter is in on the action.

Losing value because Keenan Allen is in the lineup is one thing, losing value to DeAndre Carter is something else entirely.

He and Herbert weren't seeing the same things in the defense and I put that on Palmer. Everett seems like the clear #3 target in this offense RoS.

If Everett hadn't been exhausted on the interception...I worry that will cause a riff with Herbert but he looks great wearing that number 7 out there. He's only about 240, more of a thick WR than a traditional TE

 

[opensourcebeer]

Drafted him this year, played him last night and will probably drop this week. Besides the touchdown, he looked unfocused and lethargic to me on the week which was his chance to step up. He either runs a six second forty yard dash or was jogging around on his routes. He was initially the number 2 target, but Herbert clearly pivoted after he missed him on a couple early throws.

This is what I saw as well. His routes looked imprecise and sloppy. Palmer doesn't appear to have any connection/trust with Herbert.

Herbert was force feeding Williams in double/triple coverage while Palmer was some what open in single coverage.

 

[Eights]

I don't put it on Palmer, 2 passes were completely behind Palmer, 1 was too high, that's on Herbert. Another pass Palmer had beat his guy and would've had some nice chunk yardage but he was interfered with and hauled down. He got me 12 points last night, add on the extra's above,in a PPR league, likely an 18 plus night. What's there to complain about, I'll take that all day every day!

 

[efactor]

I don't put it on Palmer, 2 passes were completely behind Palmer, 1 was too high, that's on Herbert. Another pass Palmer had beat his guy and would've had some nice chunk yardage but he was interfered with and hauled down. He got me 12 points last night, add on the extra's above,in a PPR league, likely an 18 plus night. What's there to complain about, I'll take that all day every day!

Because FF players love to *****

He had another end zone look in addition to the one he caught. Nothing down the field which was disappointing, but 13 PPR points is nothing to whine about for sure

 

[-jb-]

I was talking **** to my buddy who I’m up against and let him know that I almost picked up and played Palmer. Telling him I was a genius and that Dotson was the right play. Then the garbage TD. I would have been miserable the whole night then honestly ecstatic at the end. More than a respectable outcome for a fill-in.

 

[Eights]

I was talking **** to my buddy who I’m up against and let him know that I almost picked up and played Palmer. Telling him I was a genius and that Dotson was the right play. Then the garbage TD. I would have been miserable the whole night then honestly ecstatic at the end. More than a respectable outcome for a fill-in.

For sure the "garbage" touch down saved him! He did get several looks in the end zone.

I was surprised by how he was used last night, I'm not dropping him as Mike Williams never stays healthy for the year, Allen could battle this hammy all year.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I don't put it on Palmer, 2 passes were completely behind Palmer, 1 was too high, that's on Herbert.

I was wondering if others actually watched the game. Hebert was badly off on the first 3-4 passes to Palmer. I don't get why people were blaming Palmer on those throws.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

For sure the garbage touch down saved him!

Garbage? It got them to within 3 points.

 

[YoUnG GuNz]

I actually thought his line should've looked more like this:

7/65/1

Herbie made 2 of his three worst throws of the evening to a wide open Palmer.

 

[Terpman22]

What a bail out TD that was. Will never see my lineup again and will probably be cut - but served his purpose. Thank you sir

Palmer is good. He had 3 TDs in 3 starts last year and came on strong at the end of the year. He might be the eventual replacement for Keenan Allen. But Herbert spreads the ball around, last year Guyton also was productive. This year Carter is in on the action.

Same boat here. He is still young, but by all accounts of his teammates, he should/will be a good player. Runs good routes, talent level seems to be above the rest of the guys behind him. Still just his 2nd year...with one of the best, if not the best young gun in the NFL with more years to grow in the system. Definitely looking thru a dynasty lens here...

 

[Eights]

For sure the garbage touch down saved him!

Garbage? It got them to within 3 points.

I didn't feel it was a garbage TD, 6 pts is 6 pts no matter how late in the game they score. I was quoting the other posters words.

 

[foxco]

Dynasty think I'd try and buy.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I roster Palmer, so no hate in what I’m about to say, just a thought.

Could it be that Palmer is better with Allen & Williams on the field?

As the WR2 he seems a little overmatched. He’s not what I would call “fast”, and he doesn’t get a ton of separation.

Yes, Herbert wasn’t very accurate on 4 or 5 targets to him, but it strikes me that may be due to not wanting to risk an int by throwing to a covered receiver (except one that was clearly thrown behind him).

I like Palmer, and he’s a good dart throw BYE or injury replacement, but I’m still not sure how good he really is.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Yes, Herbert wasn’t very accurate on 4 or 5 targets to him, but it strikes me that may be due to not wanting to risk an int by throwing to a covered receiver

Except he was wide open on at least two of those throws.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Yes, Herbert wasn’t very accurate on 4 or 5 targets to him, but it strikes me that may be due to not wanting to risk an int by throwing to a covered receiver

Except he was wide open on at least two of those throws.

I may have to go back and watch. I recall commenting live about Herbert missing him a couple times, but on a couple of others he seemed pretty locked up with the receiver.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Yes, Herbert wasn’t very accurate on 4 or 5 targets to him, but it strikes me that may be due to not wanting to risk an int by throwing to a covered receiver

Except he was wide open on at least two of those throws.

I may have to go back and watch. I recall commenting live about Herbert missing him a couple times, but on a couple of others he seemed pretty locked up with the receiver.

A few were on short throws where Palmer was set up open, but the passes were just off.

As far as speed (I’m not sure what his 40 was) but he was often used on deep routes last season - him and Guyton rotated as the deep threat. He may not have elite speed but he’s not slow.

 

[Chaka]

I was wondering if others actually watched the game. Hebert was badly off on the first 3-4 passes to Palmer. I don't get why people were blaming Palmer on those throws.

It's a fair question but routes are often defined by coverage so it is not accurate to simply say Herbert missed when it is just as likely Palmer did not read the coverage the same way Herbert did.

The glaring example for me was in the second quarter Herbert rolled right, while Palmer ran down the sideline. The pass was thrown to the sideline seemingly behind Palmer. The other interpretation is Herbert didn't like the coverage and threw the ball to the only spot that Palmer would be able to catch it had Palmer broken off his route. I would argue a receiver who was better at his job would have also recognized that read an broken off the route for an easy 15-20 yard gain.

The next pass over the middle to Palmer went off his hands, again it is very possible that Herbert put the ball where Palmer should have been and not where Palmer ended up.

In those scenarios I side with the All-World QB.

 

[Chaka]

Now, the very positive indicator for Palmer is he was in on 91% of the snaps which led all skill position players. Maybe he's a good blocker, I wasn't paying attention to that, but it is a good sign for how the team views him going forward.

 

[SoBeDad]

Now, the very positive indicator for Palmer is he was in on 91% of the snaps which led all skill position players. Maybe he's a good blocker, I wasn't paying attention to that, but it is a good sign for how the team views him going forward.

I think Palmer is the eventually replacement for Allen, who's still very good, but past his peak. Allen will be 31 next spring. Palmer will have value this year whenever Williams or Allen is out.

 

[Judge Smails]

I’m a Palmer owner. Carter looks more electric. If I’m the coach I would look to get him more involved. Just sayin’

 

[BobbyLayne]

Palmer never came off the field. Two more snaps and one more route than Mike Williams.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I was wondering if others actually watched the game. Hebert was badly off on the first 3-4 passes to Palmer. I don't get why people were blaming Palmer on those throws.

It's a fair question but routes are often defined by coverage so it is not accurate to simply say Herbert missed when it is just as likely Palmer did not read the coverage the same way Herbert did.

The glaring example for me was in the second quarter Herbert rolled right, while Palmer ran down the sideline. The pass was thrown to the sideline seemingly behind Palmer. The other interpretation is Herbert didn't like the coverage and threw the ball to the only spot that Palmer would be able to catch it had Palmer broken off his route. I would argue a receiver who was better at his job would have also recognized that read an broken off the route for an easy 15-20 yard gain.

The next pass over the middle to Palmer went off his hands, again it is very possible that Herbert put the ball where Palmer should have been and not where Palmer ended up.

In those scenarios I side with the All-World QB.

Good points. Casuals see a QB throw right at the S and yell at the tv “where the duck was he throwing it?” when the real question is “why didn’t the receiver pick the option route there?”

Goff had a very similar pick six last week.

By

• Kyle Meinke | kmeinke@mlive.com

ALLEN PARK -- The Detroit Lions were slow out of the huddle, and there was more communication than usual as they approached the line of scrimmage. D’Andre Swift was late to his spot on the far side of the formation. Frank Ragnow was calling out a late check. Enough was out of sync that first-time playcaller Ben Johnson nearly jumped on the headset to tell Dan Campbell to call time out.
He didn’t.
The result: Pick-six.

You could see Gerald Everett was gassed, wanted to come out. They didn’t sub and he was late getting to the huddle. He broke right when Herbert expected him to maintain inside leverage. Looked like a terrible throw and cost them the game. On the sidelines during the XP was seen telling Everett (1st year in the system) what the read was supposed to be there.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I was wondering if others actually watched the game. Hebert was badly off on the first 3-4 passes to Palmer. I don't get why people were blaming Palmer on those throws.

It's a fair question but routes are often defined by coverage so it is not accurate to simply say Herbert missed when it is just as likely Palmer did not read the coverage the same way Herbert did.

The glaring example for me was in the second quarter Herbert rolled right, while Palmer ran down the sideline. The pass was thrown to the sideline seemingly behind Palmer. The other interpretation is Herbert didn't like the coverage and threw the ball to the only spot that Palmer would be able to catch it had Palmer broken off his route. I would argue a receiver who was better at his job would have also recognized that read an broken off the route for an easy 15-20 yard gain.

The next pass over the middle to Palmer went off his hands, again it is very possible that Herbert put the ball where Palmer should have been and not where Palmer ended up.

In those scenarios I side with the All-World QB.

Based on my observation on at least 2 of those incompletions Palmer was set and those passes were just off - I don't agree that even a great QB can never miss a throw but you can side with him I guess.

 

[Chaka]

In those scenarios I side with the All-World QB.

Come on. Even great QBs make bad throws once in a while.

Of course they do, I didn't say that is absolutely what happened. But it is absolutely what it looked like to me. YMMV

IMO It was on Palmer and better WRs make the adjustment on that sideline route.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Palmer's PPR upside is gone with Everett soaking up those high % targets in line and slot. Wasn't a worry with Cook there last year.

If Everett stays healthy, he's got top 5 PPR upside there. He's a physical freak that has the YAC ability unlike anyone on the roster and running routes on about 70% of Herbert's dropbacks with a prime opportunity.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

In those scenarios I side with the All-World QB.

Come on. Even great QBs make bad throws once in a while.

Of course they do, I didn't say that is absolutely what happened. But it is absolutely what it looked like to me. YMMV

IMO It was on Palmer and better WRs make the adjustment on that sideline route.

Maybe on that route - but twice he was set up and the throws were just off. I'll stand by my observations.

 

[Chaka]

I don't agree that even a great QB can never miss a throw

Good, because I never said that and you know it. You seem to be more adversarial this season. I apologize if I did anything to make you feel that I was doing the same, it is never my intention but text is an imperfect medium so I can see how it could happen.

Based on my observation on at least 2 of those incompletions Palmer was set and those passes were just off -

It's quite possible. It's also quite possible he shouldn't have stopped based on the coverage.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

You seem to be more adversarial this season.

I'd say the same about you

 

[Chaka]

You could see Gerald Everett was gassed, wanted to come out. They didn’t sub and he was late getting to the huddle. He broke right when Herbert expected him to maintain inside leverage. Looked like a terrible throw and cost them the game. On the sidelines during the XP was seen telling Everett (1st year in the system) what the read was supposed to be there.

That play was terrible and I put the blame on Herbert, Staley and Lombardi. Everett was completely gassed and we all saw it, he tried to get off the field but Staley decided to press the hurry up and neither he, Lombardi or Herbert recognized that calling a play with Everett as a primary was probably a bad idea under those circumstances.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

The next pass over the middle to Palmer went off his hands, again it is very possible that Herbert put the ball where Palmer should have been and not where Palmer ended up.

If that was the pass that was behind Palmer, I’m putting it on Herbert.

 

[Tau837]

I don't put it on Palmer, 2 passes were completely behind Palmer, 1 was too high, that's on Herbert. Another pass Palmer had beat his guy and would've had some nice chunk yardage but he was interfered with and hauled down. He got me 12 points last night, add on the extra's above,in a PPR league, likely an 18 plus night. What's there to complain about, I'll take that all day every day!

You seem to assume that Herbert was off rather than Palmer not doing what Herbert expected. IMO there was some of both. Bottom line, they are out of sync, whereas Herbert has clearly been in sync with WR Allen, WR Williams, WR Carter, TE Everett, RB Ekeler, and even FB Horvath. When the sync is off with just one primary target, I tend to think it isn't the QB.

 

[Eights]

I don't put it on Palmer, 2 passes were completely behind Palmer, 1 was too high, that's on Herbert. Another pass Palmer had beat his guy and would've had some nice chunk yardage but he was interfered with and hauled down. He got me 12 points last night, add on the extra's above,in a PPR league, likely an 18 plus night. What's there to complain about, I'll take that all day every day!

You seem to assume that Herbert was off rather than Palmer not doing what Herbert expected. IMO there was some of both. Bottom line, they are out of sync, whereas Herbert has clearly been in sync with WR Allen, WR Williams, WR Carter, TE Everett, RB Ekeler, and even FB Horvath. When the sync is off with just one primary target, I tend to think it isn't the QB.

I saw both, two I felt were clearly not Palmer's fault. I do hear what you are saying, Palmer wasn't running the route Herbert expected. I guess we'll see, I'm in Dynasty so I'm holding, I'm also a Canadian as is Palmer so I'm a Homer!

 

[Tau837]

I don't put it on Palmer, 2 passes were completely behind Palmer, 1 was too high, that's on Herbert. Another pass Palmer had beat his guy and would've had some nice chunk yardage but he was interfered with and hauled down. He got me 12 points last night, add on the extra's above,in a PPR league, likely an 18 plus night. What's there to complain about, I'll take that all day every day!

You seem to assume that Herbert was off rather than Palmer not doing what Herbert expected. IMO there was some of both. Bottom line, they are out of sync, whereas Herbert has clearly been in sync with WR Allen, WR Williams, WR Carter, TE Everett, RB Ekeler, and even FB Horvath. When the sync is off with just one primary target, I tend to think it isn't the QB.

To further illustrate this, consider that 10 Chargers have caught at least one pass in the first two games. Among them, the catch percentage of Palmer (63.6%) is the worst. The collective catch percentage of the other 9 players is 81.7%.

This is despite the fact that Palmer's ADOT is only 6.1. Among the WRs, the next lowest ADOT is Williams at 11.4.

 

[SoBeDad]

To further illustrate this, consider that 10 Chargers have caught at least one pass in the first two games. Among them, the catch percentage of Palmer (63.6%) is the worst. The collective catch percentage of the other 9 players is 81.7%.

This is despite the fact that Palmer's ADOT is only 6.1. Among the WRs, the next lowest ADOT is Williams at 11.4

I think it's too early and the sample size is too small to make any conclusions about the 2022 games. Do you have access to the same data from 2021? Palmer is a more complete WR than Carter, but Herbert does spread the ball around as evidenced by both Guyton and Palmer getting alot of action later in the 2021 season.

Also, note that Palmer was the target on a couple of passes inside the 10 in the last game, including the TD reception. Herbert obviously trusts Palmer.

 

[Saint]

I'm a solid hold. 8 targets, 91% of the snaps. 2 endzone targets, with one being a TD... and if Herbert had thrown to Palmer instead of Everett, that would have likely been a TD and not a pick-6 as Palmer had the position on the DB. Yes, he only caught 50% and I can see where Herbert was potentially off or Palmer being off, but as a 2nd year receiver and being in on that number of plays. I'll take the volume and the snap %. Just my way of thinking.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I don't put it on Palmer, 2 passes were completely behind Palmer, 1 was too high, that's on Herbert. Another pass Palmer had beat his guy and would've had some nice chunk yardage but he was interfered with and hauled down. He got me 12 points last night, add on the extra's above,in a PPR league, likely an 18 plus night. What's there to complain about, I'll take that all day every day!

You seem to assume that Herbert was off rather than Palmer not doing what Herbert expected. IMO there was some of both. Bottom line, they are out of sync, whereas Herbert has clearly been in sync with WR Allen, WR Williams, WR Carter, TE Everett, RB Ekeler, and even FB Horvath. When the sync is off with just one primary target, I tend to think it isn't the QB.

Or it's random variation over a small sample size.

 

[Tau837]

I think it's too early and the sample size is too small to make any conclusions about the 2022 games. Do you have access to the same data from 2021? Palmer is a more complete WR than Carter, but Herbert does spread the ball around as evidenced by both Guyton and Palmer getting alot of action later in the 2021 season.

I wasn't drawing any conclusions about Palmer going forward, just illustrating data that seems to support that he and Herbert have not been in sync in the first two games.

Also, note that Palmer was the target on a couple of passes inside the 10 in the last game, including the TD reception. Herbert obviously trusts Palmer.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that Herbert doesn't trust him. Herbert will trust his reads, and I'm sure he will go to Palmer regularly since Palmer is playing most snaps.

Or it's random variation over a small sample size.

Could be. I was just surprised that they seemed out of sync multiple times on Thursday night, so I looked at the data.

 

[barackdhouse]

I don't put it on Palmer, 2 passes were completely behind Palmer, 1 was too high, that's on Herbert.

I was wondering if others actually watched the game. Hebert was badly off on the first 3-4 passes to Palmer. I don't get why people were blaming Palmer on those throws.

In those scenarios I side with the All-World QB.

Come on. Even great QBs make bad throws once in a while.

Of course they do, I didn't say that is absolutely what happened. But it is absolutely what it looked like to me. YMMV

IMO It was on Palmer and better WRs make the adjustment on that sideline route.

Maybe on that route - but twice he was set up and the throws were just off. I'll stand by my observations.

The thing that got my attention more than anything else was that Herbert's body language seemed to be that he was upset at Palmer for (presumably) not running the route correctly. Twice. Yes the throws were off from Palmer, who was open, but I suspect it was because Palmer wasn't where Herbert was expecting.

I also wondered if they had Palmer trying to run Keenan's routes instead of doing stuff he is more comfortable with. Pure speculation, maybe someone can address that. But they were not on the same page early. He did get 8 targets and dominated snaps.

 

[dipandglide]

I'm a solid hold. 8 targets, 91% of the snaps. 2 endzone targets, with one being a TD... and if Herbert had thrown to Palmer instead of Everett, that would have likely been a TD and not a pick-6 as Palmer had the position on the DB. Yes, he only caught 50% and I can see where Herbert was potentially off or Palmer being off, but as a 2nd year receiver and being in on that number of plays. I'll take the volume and the snap %. Just my way of thinking.

Agreed

I'd have a tough time holding in redraft in shallow roster leagues when Keenan comes back

 

[Faust]

Josh Palmer caught 6-of-9 targets for 99 yards in the Chargers' Week 3 loss to the Jaguars.​

With Keenan Allen out, Palmer was forced to step up. He did so with a team-high in targets and receiving yards. Nearly half of his yards came on a 45-yard catch-and-run at the end of the third quarter. Allen was a game-time decision this week, so it could be the final game he misses for now. If he is back for Week 4, Palmer will fall back into the WR4/5 ranks.
Sep 25, 2022, 7:52 PM ET

 

[TampaMike19]

I didn't get the chance to see the game today, Palmer had 1 target, 1 reception, 35 yards.

With Keenan Allen out the previous 2 weeks he had 17 targets, 10 receptions, 129 yards, and 1 TD

There are no injury reports or updates anywhere.

Did anyone watch the game? What the heck happened?

No idea but I started over metcalf, Jacobs, etc in ppr flex…**** me.

Think game flow got out of control. Chargers got quick tds, Ekeler hogged them all. Everett seemed preferred. Mike Williams had a good one. Just a ****ty time today

 

[Faust]

Josh Palmer (ankle) was limited in Wednesday's practice.​

It's a new injury for Palmer after he played a season-low 56% of the snaps last week against the Texans, even with Keenan Allen (hamstring) still out. He caught just one pass for 25 yards last Sunday. Palmer has largely been a disappointment with Allen out the last three-plus weeks.
Oct 5, 2022, 7:32 PM ET

 

[BobbyLayne]

I didn't get the chance to see the game today, Palmer had 1 target, 1 reception, 35 yards.

With Keenan Allen out the previous 2 weeks he had 17 targets, 10 receptions, 129 yards, and 1 TD

There are no injury reports or updates anywhere.

Did anyone watch the game? What the heck happened?

No idea but I started over metcalf, Jacobs, etc in ppr flex…**** me.

Think game flow got out of control. Chargers got quick tds, Ekeler hogged them all. Everett seemed preferred. Mike Williams had a good one. Just a ****ty time today

He was late coming out after the half, was getting his ankle taped. Most of the 2nd half snaps/routes opposite Williams were going to Carter.

 

[Faust]

Josh Palmer (ankle) remained "limited" in Thursday's practice.​

Obviously we would have liked to see Palmer get in a full session, but the back-to-back "limited" days do suggest he bounced back well from Wednesday's practice and is tentatively on track to face the Browns. With Keenan Allen (hamstring) still not practicing and Gerald Everett (suddenly) questionable, Palmer's status is looking as important as ever for Week 5.
Oct 6, 2022, 6:37 PM ET

 

[Faust]

Josh Palmer caught 9-of-12 targets for 57 yards in the Chargers' Week 6 win over the Broncos Monday night.​

With Mike Williams draped in CB Pat Surtain's coverage most of the night, Palmer was peppered with a season-best dozen targets. He was still largely unable to do anything with them, catching a bunch of passes close to the line of scrimmage and failing to make any defenders miss. It's a solid PPR night for Palmer, but one that could've been better if he wouldn't have dropped a Hail Mary fling at the end of the first half. Palmer was also the subject of at least three defensive pass interference calls on Broncos rookie CB Damarri Mathis. Palmer has been a big disappointment through his five-plus weeks of starting action with Keenan Allen (hamstring) out. Allen is expected back for Week 7 against the Seahawks.
Oct 18, 2022, 12:13 AM ET

 

[Faust]

Josh Palmer has cleared concussion protocol and will play Week 9 against the Falcons.​

The same for Donald Parham. The Palmer news is huge, though, as he suffered his second concussion in three months last time out. And now the Chargers are down Mike Williams (ankle), and Keenan Allen's hamstring still isn't right despite coming off the bye. Palmer is looking like he'll be the Chargers' de facto WR1 for Week 9 against the Falcons.
SOURCE: Fernando Ramirez on Twitter
Nov 2, 2022, 3:31 PM ET