WR Kadarius Toney (5 Viewers)

[Mister CIA]

I offered my 2.12 (#24 overall) and was rejected.  I expected as much, but did not hurt to ask.

 

[ghostguy123]

I offered my 2.12 (#24 overall) and was rejected.  I expected as much, but did not hurt to ask.

Did you send a link of the Giants shopping him?

 

[Boston]

Did you send a link of the Giants shopping him?

I think a picture of him practicing with only one cleat would be more effective.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I think a picture of him practicing with only one cleat would be more effective.

I’m still not over that, tbh. He wore the wrong sized cleats to practice. Then got hurt, and ended up playing in 1 cleat.

That’s literally something a toddler would do. 

 

[spider321]

The Giants should ship him off to Kansas City or Green Bay.  That would teach both him and my fantasy team a lesson!!!

 

[The Big Donkey]

says a little something if they are looking to move him.      that WR corp isn't that good.   Golladay, Slayton, Sheppard.

 

[jabarony]

Man I just don't understand how someone can potentially just #### can their career, especially given the contracts and leverage that the top receivers have this off season.

On the one hand - put in the work and potentially get paid $20m plus per year.

On the other hand - #### off and go work at Safeway for $12 bucks an hour.

Decisions decisions....

$20M is nothing. This guy will be making 10X that with his music career. 

 

[coyote5]

$20M is nothing. This guy will be making 10X that with his music career. 

riiiiight

 

[travdogg]

says a little something if they are looking to move him.      that WR corp isn't that good.   Golladay, Slayton, Sheppard.

If we are being honest, are we sure Toney is better than those guys? Especially Golladay?

 

[tangfoot]

New York Dolls still relevant here. 

And you're a prima ballerina on a spring afternoon
Change up into the wolfman - you're howling at the moon

Personality crisis, he got it while it was hot
But now frustration and heartache is what we got

 

[The Big Donkey]

If we are being honest, are we sure Toney is better than those guys? Especially Golladay?

he did have one game last year where he looked like the best player on the field.   Parsons had a good game too.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

If we are being honest, are we sure Toney is better than those guys? Especially Golladay?

Golloday isn’t great. He had 1 good season (65/1190/11), he had one pretty good season (70/1063/5) and a whole lot of disappointment before and since. 

But no - to be fair, we do not know if he’s better than the other 3.

In the land of the mediocre WR corps, the man with 1 hand is king?  

 

[menobrown]

If we are being honest, are we sure Toney is better than those guys? Especially Golladay?

Yes and yes

 

[Chaka]

Golloday isn’t great. He had 1 good season (65/1190/11), he had one pretty good season (70/1063/5) and a whole lot of disappointment before and since. 

But no - to be fair, we do not know if he’s better than the other 3.

In the land of the mediocre WR corps, the man with 1 hand is king?  

Rookie season, the two you pointed out, 338 yards in an injury shortened 5 game season (1,120 yard pace), #### show Giants.

I don't think Golladay is "great" but he's produced on some bad teams. He's pretty good at least and unquestionably better than anything Toney has brought to the table.  The Cowboys game does not move the needle in light of his other eight games.

 

[travdogg]

Rookie season, the two you pointed out, 338 yards in an injury shortened 5 game season (1,120 yard pace), #### show Giants.

I don't think Golladay is "great" but he's produced on some bad teams. He's pretty good at least and unquestionably better than anything Toney has brought to the table.  The Cowboys game does not move the needle in light of his other eight games.

My thoughts exactly. Perhaps its recency bias, but Golladay has been a good WR for the most part. 

I do feel like that Dallas game really messed with people's expectations on Toney. I remember thinking Toney was a reach in the 1st round, and his rookie season didn't really do anything to change my mind. He had 1 really good game, but even then, he got kicked out of it. 

If I were an NFL GM and I was being offered Toney right now, I might offer a 3rd rounder, maybe. 

 

[Boston]

Golloday isn’t great. He had 1 good season (65/1190/11), he had one pretty good season (70/1063/5) and a whole lot of disappointment before and since. 

But no - to be fair, we do not know if he’s better than the other 3.

In the land of the mediocre WR corps, the man with 1 hand is king?  

Agree about Golladay...as for Toney we are basing it on potential upside and the fact we know what the other WRs are...physically I feel he can be better than those other guys but unfortunately it appears there is a lot of luggage to overcome (if he ever does) before we can find out.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Rookie season, the two you pointed out, 338 yards in an injury shortened 5 game season (1,120 yard pace), #### show Giants.

I don't think Golladay is "great" but he's produced on some bad teams. He's pretty good at least and unquestionably better than anything Toney has brought to the table.  The Cowboys game does not move the needle in light of his other eight games.

The best ability is availability. Golladay hasn’t been able to stay on the field.

I’m not saying Toney is better. I’m just saying Golloday hasn’t been great.  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

If I were an NFL GM and I was being offered Toney right now, I might offer a 3rd rounder, maybe. 

FF 3rd maybe. NFL 3rd? No way. Not with that weirdness track record/injury history.

 

[rockaction]

NFL 3rd? No way.

I agree. You can draft Leo Chenal in the third. Nobody is going to give you Chenal for Toney right now. Not with what Toney has done. Toney, as alluded to upthread by Boston (I think), doesn't just come with some baggage. He's bringing his whole set of luggage with him. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I agree. You can draft Leo Chenal in the third. Nobody is going to give you Chenal for Toney right now. Not with what Toney has done. Toney, as alluded to upthread by Boston (I think), doesn't just come with some baggage. He's bringing his whole set of luggage with him. 

Yeah. I mean, just like you wouldn’t pay a 3rd in IDP because there are LB you could hit on, an NFL team has an entire OL & ST worth of targets they could select in the 3rd round, most of whom will wear the correct size shoes to practice, and finish practice with the same number of shoes they started practice with.  

 

[Faust]

Top landing spots for New York Giants WR Kadarius Toney: Kansas City Chiefs, New England Patriots and more

 

[Faust]

What Kadarius Toney Situation Should Mean for Bears

Excerpt:

Here are the reasons they ultimately should stay away from this deal.
 

1. TONEY'S ROOKIE STRUGGLES

The 39 catches Toney had over 10 games played were not impressive. He had 10 of his catches in one game against Dallas for 189 yards, then did very little the rest of the year. The 10 catches sound great but they came largely against soft coverage because the Cowboys won the game in a rout, 44-20. It's not difficult for a slot receiver to get open underneath against soft zone being played by a defense that has a big lead. Beyond that game, Toney also had seven catches the same way in a blowout loss to Tampa Bay.

The only game that gave rise to hope Toney might live up to his draft status was Week 4 in a 27-21 win over New Orleans, when he made six receptions foor 78 yards.He had four games with three receptions or less and another four-catch game against the Chiefs when he managed only 26 yards. Any way you slice it, he had a disappointing season.
 

2. QB WASN'T REALLY AN ISSUE

Anyone looking at Toney's stats could laugh and say it's easy to come up with only 39 receptions when Mike Glennon is your quarterback. That didn't apply to Toney. He only played in one game after Glennon came on for injured Daniel Jones. Injuries or COVID-19 sidelined Toney six of the final seven games of the year. Jones was done starting in Week 13, the Giants' 12th game. So the poor quality backup QB wasn't even on the field for most of Toney's stats.

3. NO TOUCHDOWNS

The worst stat Toney had was not getting in the end zone even though he played more than half the season. Anthony Miller managed to score seven TDs as a rookie for the Bears in 2018 and wasn't a first-round pick. Then he was gone a year before the end of his rookie contract. Toney might be a rookie but that's no excuse for never getting into the end zone.

4. OTHER POOR NUMBERS

Toney's quarterbacks had a passer rating of 82.5 when they targeted him, which is solid mediocre, just like his 10.8 yards per catch. He was 85th in the league at average per catch. His 68.4% catch percentage ranked 88th. His 21 first-down receptions was 109th in the NFL. Nothing he did indicated possible future success beyond the 5.8 yards after the catch he averaged. That was 57th in the league.

5. OFF-SEASON WORKOUT

It's voluntary work, but most veterans know in the NFL it's mandatory/voluntary, especially for younger, unproven players. In a coach's first year, when the system is going into place, it behooves a young receiver to make himself available for all voluntary work. Toney isn't participating for the Giants, much the way an older, proven player or one looking for a new contract might stay away. If a receiver isn't willing to participate in his current team's offseason, what's to say he'd do it with another team and another new coaching staff? The offseason work is big for quarterback and receivers and Toney is missing it. Why trade for someone who isn't going to practice when the team really needs him to be learning a new offense?

Former Giants player and broadcast analyst Amani Toomer summed it up best regarding Toney's missed offseason work after the hiring of Brian Daboll as coach. Toomer was quoted by the New York Post as saying: “Bottom line: If I have a new coach, I’m there every day.’’
 

6. NO SPECIAL TEAMS

If a player is not going to participate in special teams, they better be pretty special when the offense has the ball. Toney didn't get involved on special teams. He was on the field for only two plays all year. And he definitely wasn't special on offense. A team would be better off with a Day 3 player who could put up the same type of numbers in the offense and also would not resist helping on special teams.

7. ATTITUDE

There were concerns about his attitude toward football and a commitment to it when he was coming into the draft. Some saw a red flag because his vehicle was stopped and he was reportedly in possession of an AR-15 rifle. He also had a suspension for "not living up to the Gator standard" while at Florida. Toss in the non-participation with his team now in the offseason and there seem to be distractions popping up all the time.

8. GIANTS DECISION

If the Giants are making him available after only one season, how much can he possibly be worth in a trade? The Giants are not exactly bubbling over with talent. Here is a player who couldn't stay healthy and focused as a rookie and they are looking into dealing him already. If that's the case, how much is his real market value? A Day 3 pick is the answer and the Bears don't even have a fourth-round pick, so from their standpoint it would be fifth round or later.
 

9. THE BEARS OFFENSE

The Bears lack enough phyisical receivers to run their current offense, as it is. The ground game and the quick screen game in this attack require good blocking from receivers. They need to add receivers willing to do the team-oriented things necessary to make this work. Toney hasn't shown this commitment at all and the Bears would be better off using their own draft picks to find someone at the position than trade good draft picks for Toney.

10. THAT ERA HAS ENDED

The Bears just finished an era when the GM threw good draft picks at about anything on the trade market. That GM is gone and they don't need to start another trend like this under Ryan Poles. They're building with the draft,, not trades and free agency.

 

[Chaka]

The best ability is availability. Golladay hasn’t been able to stay on the field.

I’m not saying Toney is better. I’m just saying Golloday hasn’t been great.  

I get what you mean but considering it's the Toney thread bringing up Golladay necessarily makes it a comparison between the two.

And Toney hasn't exactly brought availability either.

 

[Chaka]

What Kadarius Toney Situation Should Mean for Bears

Excerpt:

Ouch.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I get what you mean but considering it's the Toney thread bringing up Golladay necessarily makes it a comparison between the two.

And Toney hasn't exactly brought availability either.

Truth. I didn’t bring him up tho. Some serial Golladay bringer-upper did.  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Ouch.

Yikes.

 

[rschroeder1]

What Kadarius Toney Situation Should Mean for Bears

Excerpt:

It's random conclusion-drawing like this that screams a buy-low opportunity.

Seriously, how many teams use their #1 overall pick on special teams?

Post-ankle injury, Toney was mostly used on short routes (YPC).

The Giants as a team averaged less than 1 passing TD per game (!).  The responsibility is on Toney, I guess?

 

[menobrown]

What Kadarius Toney Situation Should Mean for Bears

No offense to you when I say this but what that was one of the most one sided hit pieces I've read in quite some time.

 

[travdogg]

FF 3rd maybe. NFL 3rd? No way. Not with that weirdness track record/injury history.

I'd still take that risk. Yes there are guys like Leo Chanal (or Abraham Lucas) possibly available in round 3. But there aren't WRs on Toney's level. Maybe it blows up in your face, or maybe it doesn't. I'm not super worried about his injury history. 

As a Bears fan, I'd love to take a WR in round 2, and trade a 3 for Toney. Something like Mooney/Toney/Moore (or Pickens) would be an ideal trio to actually support Justin Fields. 

I think especially teams with later 3rds might could convince themselves he's worth it. 

 

[rockaction]

No offense to you when I say this but what that was one of the most one sided hit pieces I've read in quite some time.

Faust just links and then we decide. His critical eye when he comments is almost always excellent. Just a board FYI, but I'm also sure you knew that. I'm just writing for other people. 

 

[menobrown]

Faust just links and then we decide. His critical eye when he comments is almost always excellent. Just a board FYI, but I'm also sure you knew that. I'm just writing for other people. 

Yea agreed and hoped to get that across when I replied.  He's what I'd call the messenger and not who I was trying to shoot.

 

[rockaction]

Yea agreed and hoped to get that across when I replied.  He's what I'd call the messenger and not who I was trying to shoot.

You did. I'm just writing that to give him props and let newcomers know. He reads, too. 

 

[Faust]

Yea agreed and hoped to get that across when I replied.  He's what I'd call the messenger and not who I was trying to shoot.

I wasn’t offended at all, in fact I like it when thoughtful & respectful critique and debate take place on the message boards here.

I think that it is fair game to question Kadarius Toney on his attitude/character issues/ maturity/ work ethic etc. 
 

I also agree with @menobrown that when the criticism crossed over to questioning some of the productivity metrics  it isn’t fair to pile that all on Toney because the Giants were a dumpster fire last year.

The quarterbacking trifecta of Daniel Jones/Mike Glennon/Jake Fromm was abysmal, Saquan Barkley was a shell of himself and the coaching was atrocious.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

The quarterbacking trifecta of Daniel Jones/Mike Glennon/Jake Fromm was abysmal, Saquan Barkley was a shell of himself and the coaching was atrocious.

But other than that, how was the play, Ms Lincoln? 

 

[travdogg]

I wasn’t offended at all, in fact I like it when thoughtful & respectful critique and debate take place on the message boards here.

I think that it is fair game to question Kadarius Toney on his attitude/character issues/ maturity/ work ethic etc. 
 

I also agree with @menobrown that when the criticism crossed over to questioning some of the productivity metrics  it isn’t fair to pile that all on Toney because the Giants were a dumpster fire last year.

The quarterbacking trifecta of Daniel Jones/Mike Glennon/Jake Fromm was abysmal, Saquan Barkley was a shell of himself and the coaching was atrocious.

I have a theory, that that awfulness of Glennon/Fromm is the only reason Daniel Jones is still starting. Because as not good as he was in that offense, he looked like Aaron Rodgers compared to them.

 

[Faust]

What could a trade for Giants’ Kadarius Toney look like? NFL evaluators weigh in

 

[Faust]

Alex Wilson @AlexWilsonESM

Look, there aren’t many players let alone humans on this planet that can move like Kadarius Toney.

You don’t give up on this yet, another team who trust their coaches will turn him into a super star.

https://twitter.com/alexwilsonesm/status/1517635408653344773?s=21
 

Field Yates @FieldYates

A look at what Kadarius Toney can do with the ball in his hands.

https://twitter.com/fieldyates/status/1517631382704599041?s=21

 

[The Big Donkey]

Toney can still salvage this with the NYG by simply showing up, imo.   lot of athletic freaks get there, commitment counts.    

 

[menobrown]

A few tweets and replies bolded below from @jeffphowe:

Giants beat writer yesterday and Howe both say he's been available for for a little while. One thing I've been trying to find out was if "for a little while" was before or after Toney chose to not attend voluntary workouts. In other words are they trying to deal him because skipping voluntary workouts was the last straw or did he skip voluntary workouts because he knew they were trying to trade him. Tweets below.

Giants WR Kadarius Toney has an intriguing trade market. While I’ve heard from some teams that have no interest, others are high on the talent and ability to let him develop in their system. Sounds like he’s been available for a little while. The draft should create urgency.

Depending on the competition, could be as high as a Friday pick.

I'd think the Patriots will get in on Toney

https://twitter.com/jeffphowe

 

[barackdhouse]

No offense to you when I say this but what that was one of the most one sided hit pieces I've read in quite some time.

It sure was.

If he was already on the block then inventing a story that he isn't committed (due to not showing up and grabbing the playbook) seems like a pretty dirty ploy by the Giants to make him look bad. But that would seemingly drive the price down and narrow the market.

Guess it is about time for smoke from every corner. 

I have gotten a lot of lowball offers for Toney recently.

 

[Faust]

SNY's Ralph Vacchiano reports the Giants are "more listening than shopping" WR Kadarius Toney.

This confirms that Toney has been involved in pre-draft trade discussions. It's a pivot from the Giants and GM Joe Schoen, who said he didn't think Toney was a "tradable piece" at the Combine. The Giants are unlikely to get more than a third-round pick for Toney if they wanted to move him, but it's clear the new coaching staff isn't as high on Toney as the previous one. Toney is sitting out the Giants' offseason program and has yet to receive a playbook from the team. 

SOURCE: SNY

Apr 24, 2022, 10:24 AM ET

 

[Birdie048]

Toney is sitting out the Giants' offseason program and has yet to receive a playbook from the team. 

That is more telling than the "listening to offers" portion of the article. 

If they have not even offered him a playbook, they have no expectations of him being around, IMO. 

 

[ghostguy123]

That is more telling than the "listening to offers" portion of the article. 

If they have not even offered him a playbook, they have no expectations of him being around, IMO. 

All players need to show up to get their playbook (so I had heard, that is how the Giants current staff operates)

 

[The Big Donkey]

the guy is talented, putting up 420 yards in 10 games.   189 in one of them.    new staff, no show.   if he wanted to be there he would be.    what can you do.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

the guy is talented, putting up 420 yards in 10 games.   189 in one of them.    new staff, no show.   if he wanted to be there he would be.    what can you do.

Without that 1 game that’s 23.1 YPG. 

Not awesome. One really good game tho.  

 

[rschroeder1]

Without that 1 game that’s 23.1 YPG. 

Not awesome. One really good game tho.  

Context is needed, though. After the ankle injury and the recurrence, his usage changed. For example, in the game at the Chiefs, he was not used on slants and quick hitters. Rather, he primarily operated underneath. This seemed to be an intentional decision to not risk re-aggravating the ankle again.

His team finished 31st in passing yards. He was a rookie. Many people think he is/was immature. Maybe he couldn't solve all the problems in year one...

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

His team finished 31st in passing yards. He was a rookie. Many people think he is/was immature. Maybe he couldn't solve all the problems in year one...

Even assuming all that is accurate, his not showing up probably won’t be seen as a step in the right direction. 

 

[menobrown]

Context is needed, though. After the ankle injury and the recurrence, his usage changed

Absolutely and before the ankle injury was an assortment of other things that resulted in him barely playing, had 24 snaps total first two weeks. Week 3 he finally gets solid playing time but frequently targeted or used. Week 4, his second game of his career to get more then 20 snaps he has a solid looking 6/78, followed by massive week 5 in essentially 3 quarters and then has injuries, COVID and rarely every able to practice.

No matter what anti-Toney takes can say he only had two solid games at best and they would not be wrong. I''m not trying to win a debate on Toney just my personal feelings is weeks 4 and 5 were not flukes but an obvious sign of his vast ability. Those two weeks he led all WR's  in the NFL in yards per route run and broken tackles after the catch.

 

[menobrown]

his not showing up probably won’t be seen as a step in the right direction. 

I've not been able to find out for sure but it sounds to me like he was being shopped before he decided to not show up. If that proves to be the case I've totally changed my concern about him not showing up. I'd still have concerns, but for this he'd get a pass.

 

[MAC_32]

Absolutely and before the ankle injury was an assortment of other things that resulted in him barely playing, had 24 snaps total first two weeks. Week 3 he finally gets solid playing time but frequently targeted or used. Week 4, his second game of his career to get more then 20 snaps he has a solid looking 6/78, followed by massive week 5 in essentially 3 quarters and then has injuries, COVID and rarely every able to practice.

No matter what anti-Toney takes can say he only had two solid games at best and they would not be wrong. I''m not trying to win a debate on Toney just my personal feelings is weeks 4 and 5 were not flukes but an obvious sign of his vast ability. Those two weeks he led all WR's  in the NFL in yards per route run and broken tackles after the catch.

Anyone questioning Toney's ability is foolish, but it's not difficult to draw some sort of line between his lack of availability on the field and work ethic off it.