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WR Kadarius Toney (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Aznflyer14
Footballguy
Last year he didnt practice much and this year he isn't. He gonna have a short career. It's shame, really, with his huge talents. Couldn't forget what he did to Cowboys last year.
rschroeder1
Footballguy
We have no idea why he didn't attend the minicamp. The Giants - and Daboll - gave no reason for his absence. Subsequently, all the media reports say he skipped it, because that's what the media does.
Last year he didn't practice a lot because of a range of injuries and two bouts of COVID. Were there reports that he skipped practice a year ago?
Twenty-Four Eighty-Four
Footballguy
Most times when a player is out for a verified reason, coaches say they that they were excused. For them not to say that, makes it seem unexcused AKA no valid reason that they are currently aware of.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Golladay also made a comment that seemed like it was directed at Toney. Golladay said everyone should be there and that he hasn’t talked to Toney in a long time.
Boston
Footballguy
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/04/21/kenny-golladay-i-feel-like-everyone-should-definitely-be-at-workouts/
Golladay not naming Toney, but it seems pretty easy to connect the dots...the fact they are installing a new offense makes this a little more worrisome...kid is loaded with talent, but it just feels like he is not gonna make life easy for his Fantasy Owners.
Golladay not naming Toney, but it seems pretty easy to connect the dots...the fact they are installing a new offense makes this a little more worrisome...kid is loaded with talent, but it just feels like he is not gonna make life easy for his Fantasy Owners.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
What in blazes is going on this offseason
Boone22
Footballguy
The New York Daily News' Pat Leonard reports the Giants are "looking to trade" 2021 first-round WR Kadarius Toney.
Per Leonard, the Giants are the ones making the calls to other teams and seeing what they can get for last year's No. 20 overall pick. Of course, new GM Joe Schoen and coach Brian Daboll have zero attachment to Toney after he was a Dave Gettleman/Joe Judge pick. But Toney flashed big-play ability when he wasn't injured last season. There's little chance the G-Men get a first-rounder back for Toney, but he still is just 23 years old. Toney has failed to report to the Giants' voluntary offseason program, drawing the ire of Daboll, who made it a point in his media session to note Toney's absence.
Per Leonard, the Giants are the ones making the calls to other teams and seeing what they can get for last year's No. 20 overall pick. Of course, new GM Joe Schoen and coach Brian Daboll have zero attachment to Toney after he was a Dave Gettleman/Joe Judge pick. But Toney flashed big-play ability when he wasn't injured last season. There's little chance the G-Men get a first-rounder back for Toney, but he still is just 23 years old. Toney has failed to report to the Giants' voluntary offseason program, drawing the ire of Daboll, who made it a point in his media session to note Toney's absence.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
It's also noteworthy that just a month or so ago, Daboll took the time to lavish praise on Toney in that sit-down interview he did. He specifically called out Toney as a talent that they'd like to see involved.
Fast forward to this, and there seems to be a lot of smoke. Be interesting to see where he lands. Weird that a player who missed so much time would come at this with this attitude.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Is there any way to interpret this other than that the team has concluded he's a headcase? Teams don't give up on first-round picks within a year of drafting them, especially when they've flashed talent, unless they've concluded they're not willing to put up with his BS. I mean, maaaayyyyyyyybe it's some kind of motivational ploy, where they use the trade talk to prove to him that he has no market, so he better straighten up and fly right? But Occam's razor says they're doing it because he's a headcase.
Boston
Footballguy
Looks like the new regime is gonna cut the cord and start fresh…the kid has been nothing but a headache since he got into the league and reliability does not seem like a strong suit for him…looking at it from the outside it appears there are serious maturity issues…the question with his latest stunt is is his endgame to get out of New York or just simply another example of idiocy…as far as landing spots go if he doesn’t go to a stable franchise he could really spiral…the funny part is there are teams that are stable franchises in need of a WR like Green Bay, KC and New England that could potentially be the best thing to happen to him.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Anyone who sold Toney wins IMO. Reading between the lines, this is all horrible for any future fantasy value of Toney
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
True - at the same time with the reported behavior, who is going to want to pay anything to acquire him?
...uh, other than the 20 or so folks who've traded for him over the last few months as detailed in the Dyansty trades topic.
At the NFL level, there'd have to be the damaged-goods loving g/f type to see Toney's track record and say, "I can fix him!"
Suddenly all those picks that went the other way in those trades are looking pretty good.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yeah, I was posting a long-winded version of that as you posted this. Completely agree. Last trade I saw was a 2nd rounder, and boy howdy does that 2nd rounder look better by a country mile.
Boston
Footballguy
Agreed…his value is rock bottom right now…oddly enough it is so low that if you have an “expendable” asset he is actually worth trying to obtain with the hope he goes to a KC and figures it out…other than that it is big time buyer beware and you would have to see a long stretch of non-idiotic behavior before you are comfortable with him.
I swear to god I typed out a post this morning speculating on him being traded and then just said forget it about people will say it can't be so.
I just thought to myself you got a new staff and front office that did not pick him is on the hook for him. That new staff is trying to set a culture and he's a problem. 5 players missed this voluntary workout and 4 of them had valid reasons. Then I noticed Toney was not repping Giants in any way on social media, no picks or part of his bio. I even looked up the cap hit and saw it would be easier to move him after June 1 and that might be a problem.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I considered that, but the going rate for a while now has been 2nd round picks.
You’d be hard pressed to find anyone who’d rather have Toney than the 2nd round pick at this point.
Then again, if he gets dealt to the right team, he could see a spike in value as almost anywhere but the Daniel Jones led Giants could be considered an upgrade.
Boston
Footballguy
My guess is people are not looking at this way because he could end up landing in a far better fantasy situation…I believe the thinking is more along the lines there is now no doubt he is a moron and if you got out before this latest debacle confirmed that you may have done as well as you are gonna do with him.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
A guy picked in the 1st round last year on the trade block is the reddest flag you will ever see
rockaction
Footballguy
New York Dolls still relevant here.
And you're a prima ballerina on a spring afternoon
Change up into the wolfman - you're howling at the moon
Boston
Footballguy
It is even more impressive when you factor in it doesn’t involve drugs, crime or some type of domestic nonsense…this is a straight up character issue.
Ya'll hit me to much at once to respond to everyone one.
A stark difference exists for me between a negative for Toney and the end of his a 23 year old second year players value or how he'll perform later.
That's what I"m trying to say. Seems way way premature to me to suddenly think that all hope is lost.
A stark difference exists for me between a negative for Toney and the end of his a 23 year old second year players value or how he'll perform later.
That's what I"m trying to say. Seems way way premature to me to suddenly think that all hope is lost.
rockaction
Footballguy
I'm bumping my old quotes but there are plenty of gems on the preceding pages. Nobody was sold on this guy. And then they saw him play. And they thought all would be right with the world. Can't say I blame them. I got a bit caught up in the hype -- I just didn't say it publicly.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
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rockaction
Footballguy
For a lot of dynasty GMs, I hope so. But this is why people downgrade character concern guys in dynasty. This guy could wind up out of the league if he doesn't shape up quickly. And it could be easy for teams to walk away from him.
By the way, not jumping on you. Hoping this works out for the young man. He's just done absolutely nothing -- and his excuses border on the bizarrely prima donna-ish -- to warrant any faith.
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He could or this might be a wake up call while eventually allowing himself to find a situation he feels more comfortable. It's still up to him.
rockaction
Footballguy
If you weren't invested in him and you were coming into this with no shares of him, are you buying at his price point now? Curious.
rockaction
Footballguy
Oh, just one thing before we bury Toney. This is one reporter. Who knows if this guy is just trying to make a name for himself? The sourcing bears monitoring, too.
Well like I said earlier I think it's a setback so his value is down but it's been down for me for 3 weeks now since I knew he skipped the first workout.
So to be clear don't confuse what I"m saying with his value is not down but unlike most of you for me it has close to nothing to do with Giants decision to trade him but Toney's decision making. And to be really really clear all this can turn around if Toney ever gets it which was why to me my feelings started to turn on him a few weeks ago because he was already failing at understanding where he came up short last year which is the commitment and professionalism for his craft.
Saying that what is his price point now? Tell me that and I"ll say yes or now but I stopped wanting to pay his going rate 3 weeks ago.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Awesome answer. I distinctly remember you expressing concern over skipping the voluntary stuff. Best of luck with him.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
#protip for anyone with dreams of becoming an NFL WR: It's a good idea to wait until you've racked up Antonio Brown's stats before you start pulling Antonio Brown s##t
smbkrypt24
Footballguy
I own him in 1 of my 3 main leagues. In that league I feel his value took a hit today.
The other 2 leagues I looked today to make offers for him. It really depends if that owner is discounting him or holding him.
ETA:
Last season I bought Toney, Carter, R. Moore for a 2022 1st (ended up 1.12), Michel, Julio, OBJ....so my cost was very low for him.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
I wouldn’t pay a 2.9 for him. I’d just draft a really good LB in my IDP league. Those picks mean something and hit at a better rate than an all-offense league. I’d say 2.7-3.0 in our league would be his new rate. Depends on how you view the draft.
rockaction
Footballguy
Oh yeah. Gally is in my league and just gave up 2.03 for him yesterday, so I’m aware.
dipandglide
Footballguy
I offered two early seconds for him weeks ago and got shut down, 2.3 and 2.4.
I personally was putting his value in the 1.10-1.12 type of range before he started skipping workouts.
Now let me see and it's one of those things were his value were I own him and what it would take to get him and what I pay does not quite match. At least not now. If and where he gets traded and any insight I get into his attitude after will impact my valuation for him.
My ownership in him consists of 2 teams, out of 9. Not super heavy. That went from 1 to 2 this offseason so picked him up once. Since I have always viewed as boom/bust I did not want to go overboard on him but had ideally set out this offseason to own him on 3 teams.
So now on the two teams I own him I would not give him up for a mid second.
But I would not pay a mid second for him right now either. Part of it has to do with makeup of teams that own him valuing him but 2 shares is enough right now unless I'm getting a good discount. I would right now pay a third in any league and will in fact start shotgunning that offer out in every single league of mine after I post this message, at least if I got a third.
For me offering anything with a 2 in front of it right now I'm going to need a lot more info such as where he's traded, his attitude, and even then it might be a case I want till my drafts start in 2 weeks and see what's OTC. I might go as high as 2.9/2.12 before my drafts start depending on what happens with the trade and his attitude but not right now.
Sorry for long message but that's where I'm at.
I'm also the kind of guy who held Josh Gordon for 7 years on a FFPC team and only this year finally started cutting AB on teams. In other words when it comes to WR's I'm willing to extend myself myelsf a little for potential upside difference makers. I'm not the kind of owner who gets a whiff of bad news and bails though in hindsight it was the thing to do, just not me.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I totally bought the report he's on the block and for those of you who don't here is another Giant beat writer also saying he's been made available.
Does make me wonder is Toney skipping workouts is why he's been traded or he's skipping workouts because he knows they want to trade him?
@JordanRaanan
Spoke to an executive who said earlier today he heard Kadarius Toney was available. As new GM Joe Schoen has done since he took over, exploring all options. #giants #nfl
https://twitter.com/JordanRaanan/status/1517650685814349824
Does make me wonder is Toney skipping workouts is why he's been traded or he's skipping workouts because he knows they want to trade him?
@JordanRaanan
Spoke to an executive who said earlier today he heard Kadarius Toney was available. As new GM Joe Schoen has done since he took over, exploring all options. #giants #nfl
https://twitter.com/JordanRaanan/status/1517650685814349824
CJ Henderson (another Gator ironically) had that happen last year, and he was a top-10 pick.
coyote5
Footballguy
Man I just don't understand how someone can potentially just #### can their career, especially given the contracts and leverage that the top receivers have this off season.
On the one hand - put in the work and potentially get paid $20m plus per year.
On the other hand - #### off and go work at Safeway for $12 bucks an hour.
Decisions decisions....
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Boy did he look electric that one game. If there was ever a buy low(er) opportunity this would be it. Based on the smoke I would say it is probably not going to end well for him but he is probably worth a dice roll for a 2nd rounder or so.
