Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Benching until he’s more involved in the offense. Luckily both leagues where I have him have large rosters.
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WR Kadarius Toney (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
-jb-
Footballguy
Saw this. Probably a good sign that he’s not venting to the media, but he was clearly bummed on the sidelines Sunday.
Mentioned this in the Palmer thread, but I’m seriously considering playing him, even after the dud he put up week one. I have a gut feeling he’s gonna blow up this week. I just need to determine whether or not I’m trying to galaxy brain this, or……….
-jb-
Footballguy
smbkrypt24
Footballguy
I was laughing at your galaxy brain comment. I hope he goes off as well. Got him in 1 dynasty and may sprinkle him in some DFS
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Danny Jones is a terrible QB, so why not play a guy that can turn a 5 yard reception into 20 yards all on his own?
Hopefully the lucky win doesn't make Daboll think he's smarter than he is.
Hopefully the lucky win doesn't make Daboll think he's smarter than he is.
chad in Indy
Footballguy
What other players are people willing to drop for homerun potential on Toney? For example, I have Olave on my bench. Olave seems to be third option on the Saints, but prob a safer bye week player.
I would think there would be a lesser player than Olave available to drop but if not then it would boil down to what my roster looked like. Is Olave ever going to start for you? If not then I would drop him for the potential of Toney. If you need to rely on Olave then I would keep him for now.
Chaka
Footballguy
I think Olave may be the fourth passing options if you include Kamara. Juwan Johnson had one more target than him last week too.
Couple that with the Saints hoping to be a low volume passing team and I think Olave is expendable in redraft.
Toney has far fewer people in front of him to pull targets from, IF he gets his head on straight. IF that happens he's the Giants #1 receiving weapon with Barkley being second.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
I have Toney stashed but would much rather have Olave.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Kadarius Toney was practicing with the Giants' third-string offense in Thursday's practice.
That is "on one particular route concept" — a detail we may have missed in our initial astonishment at the note — but it is still notable, especially since it had Toney running behind Darius Slayton in two-receiver sets after Slayton was a healthy scratch in Week 1. Toney's continued frustrations come even with Wan'Dale Robinson (knee) sidelined. Evidently, Toney's two rushes on seven Week 1 snaps were not enough to sway the coaching staff that he is deserving of a bigger role. We know it's not a talent issue. Toney simply is not showing Brian Daboll's staff what it wants from the second-year first-rounder. Already ranked as a low-end WR5 in Rotoworld's initial Week 2 ranks, it appears Toney could still be dropped further. A shock healthy scratch probably can't be ruled out.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
This dude was involved in a huge number of dynasty trades this off-season.
Just saw this….oof
Just saw this….oof
-jb-
Footballguy
Agree, but I think you're short-changing Saquon here. Sure, Daniel Jones is great, but Barkley is pretty good too.
chad in Indy
Footballguy
This has to be something with him not knowing the playbook, assignments, etc.
chad in Indy
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
I can dig it. My feeling is Olave is going to need an injury to be relevant this season. He may be an all world talent but Landry and Thomas are simply too good and, more importantly, reliable to be supplanted. And Kamara certainly isn't losing his receiving share any time soon. Even if he's getting regular snaps he is very unlikely to be high volume. Injuries may happen, both Thomas and Kamara have missed time but they will be necessary.
Toney doesn't have that barrier and, IIRC, I loved his response last week when asked if he was upset about only seven snaps. To paraphrase he said something like "Upset after a win? You're crazy." Daboll is making Toney earn it for sure but, based on perceived talent disparities Toney should get opportunities. Then again, maybe he's just a knucklehead and never figures it out.
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
·
15m
INJURY REPORT
DNP:
OL Devery Hamilton (Illness)
CB Nick McCloud (Hamstring)
CB Aaron Robinson (Appendicitis)
WR Wan’Dale Robinson (Knee)
Limited:
C Jon Feliciano (Lower Leg)
OLB Azeez Ojulari (Calf)
S Jason Pinnock (Shoulder)
OLB Thibodeaux (Knee)
WR Kadarius Toney (Hamstring)
@Dan_Salomone
·
15m
INJURY REPORT
DNP:
OL Devery Hamilton (Illness)
CB Nick McCloud (Hamstring)
CB Aaron Robinson (Appendicitis)
WR Wan’Dale Robinson (Knee)
Limited:
C Jon Feliciano (Lower Leg)
OLB Azeez Ojulari (Calf)
S Jason Pinnock (Shoulder)
OLB Thibodeaux (Knee)
WR Kadarius Toney (Hamstring)
Skipdog77
Footballguy
Coaches have to think he's dogging it with these injuries to get out of practice, which would explain the 2 snaps in Week 1.
Banger
Footballguy
I have a feeling this is a make or break weekend for Toney fantasy owners. Injuries are one thing but if you have a guy that can’t stay healthy AND THEN when he is healthy he doesn’t get the ball because he “wasn’t in the scheme that week” how can you possibly trust him?
If he gets a few snaps this weekend, you then have to wait another week and “hope” whatever mysterious issue that’s keeping him from getting playing time over guys that aren’t nearly as good as he is magically improves.
I was very close to dropping him this week and dumped Cooper instead. I know it may be a mistake but I’m enamored with Toneys ability on the field. He just needs to figure out how to get on the field.
Unfortunately, probably the worst thing to happen for Toney last week is that the Giants miraculously won that game. You win and your dumb personnel moves aren’t called into question but if he loses that game like they should have there would have been a ton of questions as to why you didn’t play your 2nd best offensive player.
Let’s see how the drama unfolds….
If he gets a few snaps this weekend, you then have to wait another week and “hope” whatever mysterious issue that’s keeping him from getting playing time over guys that aren’t nearly as good as he is magically improves.
I was very close to dropping him this week and dumped Cooper instead. I know it may be a mistake but I’m enamored with Toneys ability on the field. He just needs to figure out how to get on the field.
Unfortunately, probably the worst thing to happen for Toney last week is that the Giants miraculously won that game. You win and your dumb personnel moves aren’t called into question but if he loses that game like they should have there would have been a ton of questions as to why you didn’t play your 2nd best offensive player.
Let’s see how the drama unfolds….
Giants beat writers yesterday, which I think sheds a little light on why he was not playing much last week.
@Connor_J_Hughes
I know I haven’t been around long (Aug. 1), but during that time I think I’ve seen Toney practice like once.
https://twitter.com/ZackBlatt
@ZackBlatt
Replying to
@Connor_J_Hughes
I covered him for a season and I think I only saw him practice once
@Connor_J_Hughes
I know I haven’t been around long (Aug. 1), but during that time I think I’ve seen Toney practice like once.
https://twitter.com/ZackBlatt
@ZackBlatt
Replying to
@Connor_J_Hughes
I covered him for a season and I think I only saw him practice once
chad in Indy
Footballguy
Wow. Yeah, can't come out as a 2nd year unproven player with the Iverson approach!
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
…on someone else’s roster?
Skipdog77
Footballguy
If the dude doesn't toughen up and start attending practices he isn't going to be successful on ANY team.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
Waste.drop him
rschroeder1
Footballguy
We've officially reached silly season. Toney never practices, yet people are also upset he had a set in practice this week with the Giants' third team...
rockaction
Footballguy
What's "silly season" about wondering what the heck is going on with Kadarius Toney? Seems like "reason season" to me.
Rank order:
1) He practices on the reg and plays and starts
2) He doesn't practice but plays and starts
3) He doesn't practice because he's injured but plays and starts, while having his effectiveness cut by injury
4) He doesn't practice and doesn't start, and because he doesn't practice he's angered the coaches, who give him seven snaps
5) He gets downgraded health-wise, leaving his availability in jeopardy, and doesn't play Sunday
6) He gets downgraded health-wise, leaving his availability in jeopardy, and also runs with the thirds when he runs at all, leaving open the possibility that he'll get seven useless snaps again if he's in your lineup
That fifth and sixth ones sound like the worst of all worlds, which is why people are complaining. The sixth one is the most likely and the worst for a fantasy decision. At least if he's out, you can sub some schlep for him, unless of course you play in a sixteen-team league and there's really nobody on the bench, which in that case, why were you drafting him anyway?
But yeah, the frustration and confusion aren't "silly season."
And I know you probably meant it casually, or that news of him practicing was good news as opposed to not practicing, but wanting him to practice and practice with the starters is not a mutually exclusive concept.
I’m that guy who is hoping he is dropped in any of my FFPC leagues. I’ll scoop him up if possible and give it an additional 4-6 weeks because the promise is so promising.
Boston
Footballguy
If Toney doesn't talk in the third person, I will be really disappointed...the kid has talent, but he has been nothing but a headache since he got drafted...at this point, it is almost impressive how he has something going on at all times...still gonna hold onto him because I've come this far but it is amazing that last than a year ago, I thought I had the next Tyreek Hill.
rockaction
Footballguy
I usually get such a kick out of the "next Tyreek Hill" sentiments all over the league, but if ever there was a guy who could come close, it seems like Toney is that guy. Hill has better straightaway speed though. It's that they have similar acceleration and the ability to keep their speed while juking that makes them similar.
There will never be another Tyreek Hill, though. If he'd just stayed with Kansas City and relatively trouble-free for a few more years, you're looking at a guy likely bound for the HoF. Now, who knows?
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Saw 7 snaps and one thing his coach did not say was a "boy we've got to do a better job of getting him the ball." Constantly hurt. Was thought to be a reach, and that draft capital is attributable to the prior GM and prior HC.
Doesn't sound like a recipe for success.
rockaction
Footballguy
Due respect, but that's a "no" on the drop, of course, depending on your league.
I would say you've gotta ride or die with this guy until he crashes and burns in Daboll's offense fully. This has all the makings of Brandon Aiyuk last year. You want to be the guy with the WR2 after Week Eight or so. That's where you get your value. Not by cutting him for some middling WR4 the rest of the way.
Again, it depends on your league, but generally? No.
Boston
Footballguy
I really wished I did not watch the NYG/Dallas game in week 5 where he went for 10-189...I saw that and was convinced he was gonna be something special...man, did he look like the real deal in that game...after that I made a big trade for him...he has had 20 receptions since then.
rockaction
Footballguy
I hadn't bought into this guy but wound up with him in a redraft and a dynasty because of his "depressed" value from the offseason. One thing that's true about the NFL that I guess I should have heeded: There's always a way down from even depressed valuations of extreme talent. Guys almost just as talented as Toney wind up out of the league, never mind guys with attitude and practice problems.
Should have listened to my own typical character concern squeamishness.
Boston
Footballguy
He is almost like an "old school" attitude problem...in today's world guys like Toney usually wait for that second contract to implode...he has come out of the gate so strong, he's not tiptoeing around with his BS.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I hear you, in that game he looked special with elite traits. I literally could not believe what I seeing. Thankfully I was not able to trade for him at the time but actually will continue to send offers hoping to bargain buy as a lotto ticket.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Fair enough. I see he went in the 9th to our Giants homer - who is actually from Norway, living in the U.K., and annually our worst drafter. Dude gave up on Toney this week for DeAndre Carter and dropped Kenny Golladay for Robert
I've just never been a fan of the pick - he was way too raw and unpolished to be a first rounder. Nothing but drama from Day One. But then he has a day like the Cowboys game last year and you think "wow this kid is so talented." Lots of talented guys never put in the work to refine their craft. Always tease and never overdeliver.
I just don't see where the hope comes from at this point? You're not betting on his draft capital, pre-draft they would have dealt him if they found a trading partner. I don't know anyone who is still a Danny Dimes believer. He isn't doing anything to separate himself from the herd in his own building let alone stand out on the field on Sundays.
Wherever you drafted him, that's a sunk cost. But if I've learned nothing else in 40+ years of advising and observing business decisions, it's that most people don't know how to apply that. Folks will say they understand sunk cost, but their subsequent actions display they clearly do not.
Anyway, no dog in the hunt, hope it works out for anyone who has shares in him. Personally I'm a believer in admitting mistakes and getting roster cloggers into the trash bin.
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